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Anonymous Recommendation


There has been much talk on the reader blogs about certain reader bloggers "gaming the system" by getting all their friends to rec up their posts. Obviously, since the top five reader posts of the day now reach the TPM homepage, recommendations carry a little more currency than before. As it stood, we only allowed an IP address to recommend a post once, regardless of whether the recommender was registered at TPM.

Today we are changing that. On new reader weblogs created from today on, we will only allow registered TPM users to recommend posts. We will also apply this setting to existing weblogs on a per-weblog basis if we feel they are abusing the recommend feature. To clarify, if you have signed up with TPM and created your personal blog before today, this policy will not apply to your posts. The setting will not be applied to individual posts, but rather to all posts on a blog.

Please let me know if you have any questions.


75 Comments

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Alan,

As you noted in your blog, the newest issue concerning recs is that that top 5 rec'ed posts end up on the TPM homepage. This, I believe, is what's causing the real issue.

As I commented elsewhere, I do not understand why Josh and TPM are giving up editorial control on part the website, and the homepage no less. Any news site is only as good as its editorial control. Regardless of how the recs are generated (e.g. if you need to log in or not), it's my opinion that recs should never be used for placing stories on the front page.

What's wrong with taking posts that might have ended up on "The Ones That Got Away" and others, regardless of number of recs, and editorially putting them on the front page instead? Any thoughtful analysis would presumably immediately get widespread attention, worthy of elevating the efforts, you get spec content that costs you nothing, and TPM can maintain a quality brand name.

Editorial control of selecting these "spec blogs" would immediately deal with a myriad of issues plaguing the Cafe. You can update them as you see fit and because they are on the bottom of the page, it's possible to run more than 5. Any blogs that generated continued discussion could be left up (though perhaps rotated down the list). And you can also put up less then 5 if no particularly good content is generated that day.

Josh has blogged about the Internet being the new media, but he remains a publisher, nonetheless. I hope he extends his editorial control to the entire TPM homepage.

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If TPM is successful, and I believe it is, then why take away the public flavor, the voices of teh unwashed masses. It seems that, as I visit other sites, it is here at TPM where really thoughtful strings are sewn. Even though we do get unruly, the comments are very creative and provocative in a more serious way then other sites. We do not get very involved with trash talking that omits the issues. We trash talk and we retain the issues within that. I belive it is why TPM is recognized as a decent site and do not support editorializing the participants. TPM generates their own stories and articles. Getting too involved with the blog would dilute its flavor.

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I tend to agree with clearthinker. Have the reader recommended posts listed in the cafe but have the listings on the front page be hand picked by the staff. I don't see this destroying any of the flavor brought by user contributions. But I do think it will allow for higher quality posts on more varied subjects by more varied voices to be highlighted.

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Clear, this could be helped by the editors choosing say, 5 out of the top ten recco'd posts. Then they could have recco'd posts (with a link to more) and still have some control over content.

Downside is they'd have to read our posts. LOL.

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Make it universal. The "gamers" are already here.

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I agree. It needs to be applied to all posts, not just the newbies.

Al, thanks for your efforts and time on this matter.

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So, would it make sense to un-register and re-register?

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I'm not sure there is an option to 'un-register'.

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My Mother thanks you, my Father thanks you, my Clique thanks you and I thank you.

(*My* clique knows how to spell it.)

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I don't see how this changes much but whatever. It will not impact me or the cafe really as far as I can tell.

I don't understand at all why or when anyone might "game" the system. I'd be much more interested in making sure the mortgage scam spam posts disappeared once and for all. That seems to be a much great problem, at least from my point of view.

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I'm glad for the additional step being created to recommend. It simply requires people to be somewhat committed to the site if they wish to comment. It discorages drive-bys. Thank you. I do not think we will lose people who are intent on commenting regardless of their political tendencies.

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This is off-topic, and I apologize, but only about a third of my recommendations actually post under my "Recommendations" tab on my blog page. And this is true, even though I'm logged on. They are logged as recommendations on the post, but not on my page. It's not really a big thing... but it is. Y'know?

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It sometimes takes a few days for them to show up on your page.

Comments show up a lot faster, but for some reason, the posts you recommend don't show up on your own recommend tab on your blog page for quite a while.

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Until you post a blog or comment on one your own posts. Then your recommends are brought up to date.

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I'LL BE DAMNED

Well we lose nothing by trying this.

I am pleased that you in 'management' take an interest. Thank you.

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Thanks for caring enough to try, Al. We must sound like a bunch of babies sometimes. :-) I don't think there is any doubt that something weird is going on around here. It would be a lot easier for you to just ignore it and hope it goes away. I appreciate your efforts to try and figure out what it is and and make improvements.

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Of course I am watching your rec count very closely.

hahahahahah!

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Seems like a good move.

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And don't worry; CT will never be satisfied.

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It's mature attitudes like this that prompted many on Dan K's blog to talk about the decline of the Cafe.

Is your life so empty that you feel a need to start a flamewar out of nothing?

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I have a flame for you . . .

Do you care to respond to the following?








































































































































QUACK! QUACK~

~OGD~

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Recommended.

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i think it's cheap and tawdry to even rec your own blog post.

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PCA - Nice to see ya.

You know, I think I only rec. one of mine once and that was more for the comments.

But, another consideration is I suppose that if one posts something they believe has some value they rec it as they would one by another.

I can go either way, depends upon the motivation I guess. It doesn't bother me at all if someone recs their post.

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aunt sam, thansks for noting my demise from round here. finally started checking out a 8mo lumbar problem. 1st mri too-long, and came with recs tor oncology scan.

unlikely, glven family history, but needs to be checked.

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Just a few days ago, amike was stating he wanted to know where you were too. You were missed. Please keep updated on the next 'results'. Hope u r feelin' okay and can visit here more.

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oncology?!

=(

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and much more, that begins with fractures and/or ruptures to L1-4

longer message soon

hugs

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(hugs backatcha) and please.

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i have learned to fear
a new perception of pain
and this does not
leave personal shame
upon my head

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Cyants: I've missed you, and your posts which are invariably filled with referenced facts that you interpret -- helpfully, without condescension -- for those of us with focus issues. Thank you.
I'm sorry you have health issues -- worries.
Please keep us informed as it is comfortable for you to do so.

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Get well PCA. i shall not delay you further.

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Was it "cheap and tawdry" for Obama to have voted for himself in the recent presidential election?

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a realdeal clearthinker would have comprehended the previous poster's reply inferred a recent absence from TPM, and not made the query to begin with.

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Let me sing Kumbaya. But please be clearer next time and post "I need a hug and some TLC" if that is what you are after.

My apologies for responding to specifically what you posted. Unlike so many here, I don't pretend to be able to read minds.

But now I'm curious: why bother posting if you don't want to engage? That's rather passive aggressive.

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I am sure this will cause a whole 'nother round of self pity and whining about how mean everybody here is, but you really are just an asshole.

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My apologies for responding to specifically what you posted. Unlike so many here, I don't pretend to be able to read minds.

Ah, but you do, CT, you do. You comment back to all of us as though you know where we live and whether we work and whether we just have too much time on our hands. You presume to know each and every one of us that you start to generalize and call us "older....middle-aged.....baby boomers....."


But now I'm curious: why bother posting if you don't want to engage? That's rather passive aggressive.

Why bother posting about who uses their real names or who is in the chat room or who is a banned user returned from the dead, as you do in almost all of your comments, if you don't want to engage us all with your own real name? Why bother posting your own passive aggressive comments when you pulled your own blog and all of its comments off this site just a month and a half ago, swearing for the third time (or was it the fourth?) that you were leaving TPM for good and taking all your toys with you?

I find it hard to swallow your comments about passive aggressive behavior from others, Clearthinker, when you seem to be suffering through it yourself.

That being said, this is one big huge sandbox, and I'm willing to play in my corner of it, if you're willing to play in yours. I'll play nice if you play nice.

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PCA! You have been missed and I am glad to have you return. I'm going to give you a hug, but very carefully so as not to effect the lumbar, of course! As for these sterile, antiseptic nobaody ever loved me so I will not love anyone types, they can remain isolated, miserable and angry that others are capable of being affectionate until they choose not to be that way.

Of course, I am assuming you are okay with a hug. If not, I would shake your hand as an option, tip my hat, wave, smile, whatever. I do not mean to impose. :-{)>

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lol. oh, man, i need to keep working at decreasing my pain meds...

you ought to give the tao a try.

ever read the art of war ?

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Hey Pseudo, Pain is just to let you know if you are doing someting wrong or tell you that you are hurt and need to heal. You have got the message and are too smart to ignore it so take the meds and be as comfortable as possible while getting better.
I'm always glad to see that red ant show up.

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Nice to see you Psy, Good luck with the Lumbar.

(ps please don't judge me, sometimes i'm tawdry)

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I would support making it impossible to rec your own post. I did (thinking it would tell me who had recommended my post) and then I felt dirty.

Seems like if you bothered to write it and then publish it, you think highly enough of the post that recommending it is redundant. Maybe that's just me though.

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You have to learn to recommend yourself, before others can recommend you.

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But I don't want to promote myself. If I just sit over here quietly, won't people just notice how witty and funny and charming I am? I'm just so sick of all these games. I want people to appreciate me for who I am and not this person I have to pretend to be to get people to like me, to get them close enough to actually see who I am...

Wait. You were talking about recommending blog posts. Err, awkward.

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Yes, I'm not really a monkey (well, depends who you ask), and I'm tired of pretending to be a one because my knuckles are killing me. Anyway, eyes are windows to the soul, so we can see your "real" self (and at least those aren't rose-colored glasses). But I still want people to accept me for who they think I'm not.
Pseudonymously Yours

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I'm confused by this... and as one of the accused I wonder if there even is a policy here.

Usually I'll tweet after I post a blog here... that drives people to teh site and some (not all, I have 1,400 followers) of my followers are friends. I don't ask for anything.

I would think TPM would like the publicity and new readers and members that would come out of this.

Alternately it seems rather silly to write a blog and not tell anyone about it. My blog about CNN getting the story wrong on my other site had over 1,000 views over 2 days, roughly 40 comments... and it was highly recco'd here and got a lot of comments here too.

So the issue is... other people don't promo what they write? Or you just don't "like" reccos from "strangers"?

It's 2009. Maybe you can figure out a way that you don't have to log in 50 times a day too.

I work in the web development industry and I can tell you what happens to "legacy" sites. Reccos from actual people who come to the site and push a button are NOT hacks.

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PS. does this sound like Prop 8 to anyone? The "already's" get the benefit of the doubt but the newbies don't? LOL...

You guys heard of this cool thing called "twitter"?? AWESOME...

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Isn't that for people whose thoughts are simple enough to pare down to 140 characters and readers who think that sort of tripe constitutes serious or interesting dialog?

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Yes, only idiots with nothing to say use twitter ... didn't you know? What's your account name?

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PS. Talking Points Memo has a twitter feed so maybe you can ask them why they embrace such a stupid format.

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This is actually a limitation of the software. I'd go back and change it for everyone if there was an easy way to do it.

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Seems to be a lot of rec's here Al.

Startin to look mighty suspicious

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I was gonna say... 30 seems way to high for this sort of post. I mean the one I got into trouble with had 36, and it was like, funny and stuff.

But never underestimate the power of the brown nose impulse.

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One person gets my lame joke. ahahahah

Thank you. everybody is ignoring me. hahahaha

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Hey, I laughed. But only for a sec! Cause then I got to thinking--you can't trust those techie types. Heck, Al could have been behind the whole thing--a little counter-sabotage action to get the boss to let you do what you wanted to to all along, eh? Techies, you just can't trust 'em, I'm warning you, even though the younger generation of them like Al has learned to talk to humans (in English yet!) as if he was a really really nice regular person, watch out, because they are still the evil geniuses controlling our world! You can't be too suspicious...

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I would not call that post as "getting you into trouble", it just raised some questions related to activity that had developed at about the same time as your post. 36 is actually not so much indicative of carpet rec'ing. people rec humorous posts all the time. Check out that Wolfrum poster.

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It's lonely at the top.

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Hey guy. Nope, I don't think anyone would be unhappy if you used Twitter to reach your friends, and they came to the site, and read and listened and participated and so on. Really. But if they just zipped in to hit the Rec button, that's something different. And if the show or blog you put up you'd already put up elsewhere, and they were also reading it there, then it seems a bit of a waste of time right?

So sure, get your friends to register and Rec and participate, and post up some original stuff, and beyond that... I think it's pretty much an open road. I'm not saying this in any official capacity, but as I understand it, them's the rules.

Have a good one.

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I've been owing you a Ham n' Swiss sammie for the longest time, Nose Tube Guy.

Not that we clique, or anything like that. Cuz we don't.

Just sayin'.

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Got one of those new Smacklatte's to wash it down?

Mmmmmm.

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The rule seems to be don't promote your own blogs... actually there is no rule but now people are pissed that some bloggers are getting more than 20 reccos for blogs they deem "unworthy" of it.

If I have 1,150 friends that is news to me.

No one on here uses twitter?

You'll be happy to know my latest posts have less than 3 recs each ... at last I'm living up to the great standards of TPM for what?

Underpromotion?

If you can't see how silly this all is I can't help you. Basically the self-appointed "old guard" here asked management to babysit them, and management decided it was more politic to not tell the few people who can't stand seeing a new blogger's post go to 30 recco's to deal with it.

All I have to say re this is ITS A GREAT TOPIC FOR A BLOG.

"TPM EX-HIPPIES THREATENED BY TWITTER "HACKERS""

Sheesh.

More likely I'll take my ball home with me. But then again why not stay just to piss you people off? Loosen the poncho strings you might pass out.

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By design, TPM attracts a certain audience. When you start driving a lot of people to the site to read a single post, unless your audience is identical in nature to TPM, the population will be skewed. When the people you send to the site recommend your blog posts in numbers large enough for it to show up on the front page, the recommended list is no longer about TPM or the community here but it becomes an extension of your twitter feed.

Is it to the benefit of TPM and the TPM community for a group of people with different interests and priorities than the majority of those who contribute here to determine which blog posts are showcased? I'm going to have to say not really. While you might not like the number of recs you get without utilizing your twitter followers, the recommendation system is for more than just the benefit of the poster. It is for the community to see what other people find interesting and worth checking out. If the system is dominated by people who aren't in the community than that value is destroyed.

It is great that you direct people who might not know about TPM to visit the site. But if your presence here has little to do with the site or the people who normally come here and is instead just a forum for you to post thoughts and drive traffic in spite of the site and people here, then you are taking more than you are giving. You are using the space and resources without returning anything of value to the people you are sharing those things with. And people being upset at that should not be surprising.

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Yeah no one would want to listen to say, a two hour show on African hip-hop, or my blog on "green" graffiti corporations are using now, or my post on how CNN got the story wrong on Chris Broughton.

I guess the 40 or so comments I got on that one must have been from people who don't really belong here.

Gosh I'm such a taker.

It's OK, I came out against twitter in my last post and eventually will get my Birkenstocks in line with how you and others think I should be:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/fgdesign/2009/09/stop-the-twitter-before-its-to.php

Be less pretentious please. My progressive/left content is as good as yours (and I DO wear Birks). Sheesh.

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Perhaps you missed my use of the conditional ("But if..."). If that doesn't apply to you, then great. If you are happy with the reception you are receiving from the TPM community, great.

However, it seemed to me that you were confused as to why people were taking issue with a bunch of people who aren't TPM readers recommending your posts. That was the concern I was trying to address. If I was incorrect, then what is it you are complaining about?

My response had nothing to do with whether or not you are liberal or progressive enough or your choice in footwear. I was trying to explain that if you find that TPM readers aren't recommending your posts at a significant rate it could be because your posts don't pique the interest of the majority of the audience here, and why people could be upset by you bypassing the majority opinion and bringing in people who are interested in your thoughts but not generally interested in the other content here.

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I'll tell you the reception I've gotten here.

I did a post on Chris Broughton, which I took down since, that got about 33 reccos. Someone on that thread asked me if I had gamed the system somehow, and I said no.

Like gentleman, he took me at my word. That was two weeks ago. This weekend I posted two blogs that went over 30 reccos. One I didn't twitter at all since I had already put that out to my feed for my BTR show.

Both were over 30.

This time, I was treated like the lead in a (community college) performance of The Scarlet Letter. So I responded in kind.

Super-intelligent posts like "DUDE YOU KNOW HOW MUCH YOU SUCK?? NO EVEN MORE THAN THAT!!"

So first I was being lectured for doing something dishonest (which I wasn't), and NOW I'm being lectured, essentially, for not taking a punch better.

As I've said elsewhere it's a blog, get some perspective. And if you don't enjoy my reactions to your unsolicited advice TAKE some of you own and don't engage in it.

The last blog and my next show will be all about this basic and obvious hypocrisy. Sorry if I lumped you in with the other lecturers but if the Birks fit, wear them. You say:

"I was trying to explain that if you find that TPM readers aren't recommending your posts at a significant rate it could be because your posts don't pique the interest of the majority of the audience here, and why people could be upset by you bypassing the majority opinion and bringing in people who are interested in your thoughts but not generally interested in the other content here."

And how exactly do I (or you) know exactly how many of the reccos I got are TPM "readers" (I guess you meant members)?

Guess what?

You don't know.

Now if you honestly think I'd be "upset" by people I have little respect for (namely whiners) you haven't understood me or my posts very well. I'm not a joiner and I don't apologize for my content ... it has a great appeal to some people and guess what?

That's exactly what the 'net is for... so THOSE people can find me.

The rest of you feel free to f off.

IF and WHEN I decide to stop posting here (I'm getting a lot of positive response too) it won't be because one or two malcontents tell me how much "I suck." It'll be because I'm bored with it... and rules that aren't really rules or sort of are or aren't until you get over 20 posts are WAY boring.

Looks like whoever has been jacking up my reccos is only working on the weekends (and not only on me, I might point out).

You wanna see me as a bad guy that's fine I'm used to the attention of squares (although usually conservative). If you (or anyone else here) has a problem with my content feel free to take it up with management. Judging from the original post they will take away my "outside" recco privledges (if they can figure out how LOL), presumably if I post something next weekend that gets more than 20 reccos. Good system.

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And how exactly do I (or you) know exactly how many of the reccos I got are TPM "readers" (I guess you meant members)?

No, I meant readers. I was distinguishing between people who come to TPM and stumble across your post as opposed to those who come here because you twittered about your post. And perhaps I misinterpreted what you wrote, but I was referencing what you said in the first post I responded to:

You'll be happy to know my latest posts have less than 3 recs each ... at last I'm living up to the great standards of TPM for what?

That sounded to me like you were getting significantly fewer recommends when you weren't driving traffic to your posts from offsite. Which is exactly how you tell how many TPM readers are interested in your material.

Now if you honestly think I'd be "upset" by people I have little respect for (namely whiners) you haven't understood me or my posts very well. I'm not a joiner and I don't apologize for my content ... it has a great appeal to some people and guess what?

That's exactly what the 'net is for... so THOSE people can find me.

The rest of you feel free to f off.

You sound pretty "upset" to me. And whatever your thoughts on the purpose of the "net", you are on TPMcafe which isn't designed for "THOSE people" to find you but rather for TPM readers to share their thoughts with each other. If you just need a random place to post, get a wordpress blog. They are convenient and free. You can get one here.

But your attitude that TPMcafe exists for people who like your ideas to find you and that everyone else can "f off" is the problem here (well, that and the fact that you have no respect for people who disagree with you or "whiners" as you call them). You are stepping into a community and behaving in a way that is disrespectful to the people who make up that community. And then when people tell you that they don't appreciate how you are behaving you tell them off.

At no point have I gotten any indication that you are the least bit interested in understanding how other people feel or what about your behavior might bother them. You seem to be far more interested in claiming martyrdom and justifying behaving in any manner you want to. If you are interested, I believe that I've hit on a number of things about your behavior that people take issue with. It might be beneficial for you to look back through them.

This is not your house and you do not get to make the rules. You share this place with many other people and we will all have a better experience if we keep that in mind.

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There's no "behavior" and the lower-rated posts I tweeted as well... so much for yet another assumption by you.

I do have a wordpress blog and have for a while:

http://igotmyreasons.wordpress.com

As far as "readers" that's a distinction that exists only in your mind, as clearly neither you or management has any REAL way to tell how seriously someone is interacting with the content. It's all made up, and shockingly, seems to favor your side, which presumably is to cast dispersions on new people who seem to be getting reccos.

TPM Café DOES exist so that people can post blogs in a variety of styles and subjects, and people read them by choice. So no, my characterization is not wrong, and guess what, YOUR IS.

It's ALL opt-in, including reccos. My suggestion is start reading and talking to people that think and act like you, then you won't have to look foolish while claiming some authority you simply do not have.

I'm done with you (checked your content and wasn't impressed, sorry), so try and be a grownup and be done with me. When MANAGEMENT tells me to go, I'll go. why you think you are hall monitor is beyond me (and pretty funny).

Later gator.

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One more thing, ALL of this was from being falsely accused of "gaming" something, without any proof.

If I tweet all my blogs and on weekends I get "suspicious" numbers PERHAPS I'm not doing it. Me resisting being characterized as dishonest is bad behavior? Get real.

So again, I'm being asked to take a punch better. Maybe you enjoy that, I don't. Being offered "helpful" advice from a complete stranger on my supposed behavioral problems that stem from not admitting I'm a witch, here, is, well codependent and creepy.

Maybe you should take a look at these issues. But I sure am not going to offer you a list of them, that would be obnoxious and mean... exactly as you have been.

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PPS. These are the rules:

You agree not to use the TPM websites or the Service to:

upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available ("Post") any Content:

- that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, false or inaccurate, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

- that you do not have a right to make available under any law or under contractual or fiduciary relationships (such as inside information, proprietary and confidential information learned or disclosed as part of employment relationships or under nondisclosure agreements); or

- that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights ("Rights") of any party;

harm minors in any way;

impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

Post any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;

Post any material that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment;

interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;

violate any applicable local, state, national or international law, intentionally or unintentionally;

"stalk" or otherwise harass another; and/or

collect or store personal data about other users.

I follow these, not yours.

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BTW all my actual friends DO read my blogs (or listen to them, as the case may be)... I know cuz they write me back on twitter.

Problem is I can't control what other visitors do, so when there's a magic way to know if people actually partook of content please tell management.

(maybe for your content reading 1/5th of the post should count)

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And . . .

. . . not as cold as being a bottom feeder . . .

(quickly paddling back into the tall reeds of the pond...)

~OGD~

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I think the idea of having cafe bloggers, in the sense we are all memebers of a peer group, should be the guide for this. If TPM staff or other industry professionals were to evaluate the blogs it would change the selections in a way that may not reflect the perspective of the average guy on the street. As a group, we may not be that average guy on the street but we're probably as close as you'll get in the environment as it stands.

You could nitpick this and say it may be clannish but in reality that is how small, informal societal units work. The single dependency is that there are enough participants doing quality writing that make us think but don't shortchange the emotional connection within the group.

And what of those times when someone is spilling their emotions all over the place? I think we should CELEBRATE the HONESTY of that outpouring and recognize we have no chance of always being right or always saying the right thing. We just can't avoid those times when we leave our brain on the sideline. Just be thankful very few of us are afflicted like GWB. See how lucky we are?

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Al Shaw

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