For those people always seeking Congresscritters with "spines"
Dem blasts Obama econ team's 'mumbo jumbo'
By Alexander Bolton, The Hill, 01/13/09 01:36 PM [ET]
A Democratic senator on Tuesday accused President-elect Obama's incoming director of the Office of Management and Budget of talking "mumbo jumbo" instead of offering hard details on the economy.
"I would think that in this era of freshness and transparency the new administration would want to come forth with detail instead of this mumbo jumbo that is going on," said Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), a member of the Senate Budget Committee, during Peter Orszag's confirmation hearing....Nelson went even further, blasting Obama's senior economic adviser, Lawrence Summers, for also failing to divulge the administration's plans during a meeting over the weekend with Democrats.
"The discussion on Sunday was devoid of details with Mr. Summers. When are we going to get those details?" said Nelson....





Congress' job is to get the details. If they ask long and hard enough, they will get the details.
That is good as far as I am concerned.
January 14, 2009 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have to question the use of the word "spines" when they are seemingly only to be found when facing someone of their own group. Spines are most needed when facing the opposition. In the case of Bill Nelson (D,FL), he sounds like someone with a flatulence disorder rather than someone that just found out he has vertebrae.
On another note, Speaker Pelosi found she has a sense of humor.
January 14, 2009 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Come to think of it, Bill Nelson sounds a lot like Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader, who is vowing to "protect taxpayers against the rush to spend their money."
Gee, Mitch. Where has your spine been for the last 8 years when protecting the taxpayer's money was nowhere on your agenda?
January 14, 2009 1:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unbelievable, isn't it? Sean Hannity coming out against fearmongering - same vein.
January 14, 2009 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or Rush coming out pro-gay. It just boggles.
January 14, 2009 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know. All I can do is laugh. Through the tears.
;)
January 14, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
a flatulence disorder
Perhaps. ;-)
To be honest, besides being reminded of one of blogistan's favorite lines, what this story made me think of is that somehow I got the impression that the Obama team was totally in control, all ready to go with an economic recovery plan dotted to a T, like week two of the presidency. Guess I got the wrong impression. Or if they are, they are apparently keeping the details secret from like, Dems on the Senate Budget Committee?
It's a little disturbing to hear a Senator on the Budget Committee complaining he's got no clue about their plans, when all the transition P.R. has been that something has to be done ASAP, and spin I've read about the Obama team's supposed genius had somehow got me thinking that they were plotting away with all the Dems in Congress, ready with precision efforts. Time to clear that from my brain, look for some other sources, as I apparently got the wrong impressions.
January 14, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since the economic mess is a rolling avalanche (or series of them) I can only imagine that they get one plan figured out when they're hit by the latest snowfall and series of avalanches. It's like a bunch of cluster bombs or a mine field. How can anyone really prepare adequately?
January 14, 2009 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's like a bunch of cluster bombs or a mine field.
Good analogy, TheraP. The only difference is these bombs have CEOs setting them off.
January 14, 2009 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well... they wanted their bonuses, didn't they?
January 14, 2009 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the problem is that there are so many problems. Nelson was bitching about the second half of TARP, wanting an explanation of how that money is to be spent and how it will be accountable. He was questioning Peter Orszag during his confirmation hearing, who could only offer that details would be available in mid-February. And apparently, the letter Summers sent out describing the broad outlines of their plan was also not detailed enough for Mr. Nelson's unsettled stomach.
Now, that problem is different from the problem that Senate Democrats had regarding the tax cuts that were in Obama's relief proposal. Out of the $300b, 40% were tax cuts designed to win over Republicans, which did not go down well with the Democrats.
They are cheap dates, however. After a private lunch on Capitol Hill, the Democrats came out "swooning" over the PE even though, like his aides, all he offered was a broad outline. But now the mantra was, “[i]t’s not his job to get into the weeds.”
Realistically speaking, Einstein himself would have trouble with this mess. That's the way I'm reading it, but who knows?
January 14, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
What exactly does it mean to rain cats and dogs Seashell?
January 14, 2009 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's what I learned in kindergarten. That if you go outside you'll step in a poodle. :)
January 14, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Beat me to it...
January 14, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry....;)
January 14, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just don't step in a poodle!
January 14, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I go with the poodle theory myself dd, but why pray tell, are you asking me? Have I transformed from a political junkie to a meteorologist?
My chances of being right either way are about the same.
January 14, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I read somewhere was that household pets would nestle into the roof thatch for warmth, but when it rained very hard, water would start trickling in, so they'd start jumping down from the roof.
January 14, 2009 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is fun stuff. I love etiology, origins of myths and legends and sayings. Terrific.
I was making fun of Seashell for citing a little movie about cats and she did not get it because she is a puppy.
Your explanation is more than believable.
January 14, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent point Seashell!
January 14, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to see either the senate Democrats or Republicans give "all the details" for any recovery plan to take place in the middle of this charnel house that is now our economy.
Nobody's too damn sure what the Bush administration has done in any concrete terms. (We know some of what hasn't been done, little or nothing has been done to help people with bad loans.) So how do you give out "all the details" to fix a situation when very little of the "situation" is known to you?
January 14, 2009 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
how do you give out "all the details" to fix a situation when very little of the "situation" is known to you?
Um, but but, Obama's nominee for Treasury Sec.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_F._Geithner
has most definitely been working with the Bush administration on this all. Matter of fact, I heard Keith Olberman last night or the night before call him the only person in DC who really understands TARP.
If Obama's team hasn't been able to understand Geithner enough on what's going on to translate his prescriptions for Congress, were they just planning on letting him handle it all?
January 14, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Last week:
January 14, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The following story from today does very much make it seem that Obama is asking for carte blanche trust without giving many details, he wants approval before details are available.
Note Dodd's statement especially. He says there's no time to add restrictions. That's basically saying "you have to trust the Obama administration, sorry but that's the way it is" Levin is basically saying "hey, don't worry, he's as suspicious as everyone else...":
TheraP's comment that it might be like a continually changing avalanche rings true to me, but I must say I have been sufficiently dissuaded from believing the spin that the Obama team is working like a well-oiled machine on this. They are not, they don't "have it all together," there are no details. (Geithner, instead of figuring out with should be done with another $300+ billion, is studying and commenting on his own tax returns.) Imagine what it would be like without the honeymoon factor.
January 14, 2009 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Turns out there was a House Financial Services committee hearing on TARP yesterday with the current regulators begging for the money:
and today
Pelosi Hints Obama Will Get His $350 Billion TARP Request;
Senate Vote Is Expected to Come as Soon as Thursday
ABC News, By JONATHAN KARL and MARK MOONEY
Jan. 14, 2009
January 14, 2009 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
This front page New York Times piece from today backs up TheraP's comment, even as it also suggests a money pit:
January 14, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
In something like this, I would love to be proven wrong... but yes, I did read that this am.
January 14, 2009 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Methinks "details" is one of those concepts far less useful in the concrete than it is in the abstract. The Devil is in the Details is guess...but then maybe so is the Deity. What level are we talking about, anyhow? In political discourse, that concept floats like pond scum. (There's a g-rated metaphor for you). Detail means one level more than provided by your verbal sparring partner. Pincushion? the detail is the number of pins. Number of pins? the detail is the third pin from the left, second row. That pin? The detail is the diameter of the head. 1/32nd of an inch? The detail is the number of angels dancing on it. And so it goes. I'm reminded of the film Powers of Ten. The film is online at http://www.powersof10.com/index.php?mod=watch_powersof10 (registration required). Or visit Orders of Magnitude at http://www.ordersofmagnitude.biz/index.html.
I suspect that the amount of detail which would satisfy Ben Nelson is one order of magnitude larger than the capacity of his brain to hold said detail.
January 14, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're being a bit too harsh a judge of Nelson given what I just read.
Former TPM reporter Paul Kiel published this Monday afternoon at Pro Publica:
Perhaps one of Ben Nelson's staff read it, because among other things, it says
And Kiel published this this afternoon:
Kiel links to the 3-page PDF request that Congress got from Summers in the first article. Remember how much outrage from the left, right and center about Paulson's initial proposal and how many pages it was?
Looks to me like they want the money now with as few strings attached as possible and they want to be trusted with it, they are confident they can support what they have done with it later in hearings. Looks to me like Obama is throwing bones to the squeakiest wheels who have the time to and the background to have an idea of what's going on just to get it approved. It is understandable that a congressperson, especially one on a related committee, would raise reservations/objections. They are not supposed to be a rubber stamp to executive power.
My point: this is not a good sales job. It's a rush sales job because they believe in the urgency. But Bush, Paulson and Bernake did the same thing with the first rendition of this story. This is being pieced together, not done with teamwork of both branches of government, not like it's supposed to be done. The point of not giving them all $700 billion at once was so that wouldn't happen. But even though Obama knew that, and knew the names and addresses of the new Congress, they and his team didn't plan much at all. It's still all wing and a prayer, and that wasn't supposed to happen, it's why it was split into two separate payments.
Certainly wing and a prayer under Obama sounds much much better to me than wing and a prayer under lame duck Bush, but it's certainly not what they have been selling, and it is disappointing. It's Congress' fault, too, no doubt about it.
Geithner's confirmation hearing is going to be tough, he better have more specifics then, he better be as well prepared and as on top of things and as practiced as Hillary Clinton was at hers. This spending on the financial sector is very unpopular with lots of Americans, many have not been sold on the value of it, and a lot of things could turn very sour very quickly if conservative GOP detractors can find the right notes to hit.
Keep in mind that Obama was on Bush's side for the first round, against some very loud "small government" conservatives and there are also quite a few "small government" conservatives who have not been fans of big spending Bush for quite some time, and some Dems with very big qualms for which pork was added by the Senate to win them over. Having a dinner for John McCain the night before the inauguration isn't going to help Obama much there if you recall where McCain ended up on the bailout. I don't see any of these political problems as having been addressed by a supposedly clever team.
January 14, 2009 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
In another piece yesterday, Kiel says:
If true, furnishing fig leafs for $700 billion bailouts of the financial world out of bills expected to fail is not a long-term solution to the fact that a large portion of the public is unhappy with the bailout. Cross your fingers that there's some significant economic turnaround by the mid-terms, or you could see those holding that fig leaf lose their seats.
The whole situation is too reminiscent of 1992-1994 for my taste (the success of the "Gingrich revolution" like a slap in the face when so many of us thought things were getting so much better--I remember being shocked at the 94 mid terms, no idea that so many were so unhappy.) But the stakes this time are so very much larger. I really wish they had done more work and more convincing over what should be done over the last month and a half. If a member of the Budget Committee of the same party feels totally out of the loop about what they are up to, so are lots of others, and that's not a good thing. We're still not out of the woods of looking at the possibility of a world depression and the dangerous political reactions that could engender.
January 14, 2009 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a good, realistic analysis of the problem, aa. I like it better than mine, I think!
January 15, 2009 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You may be right. I don't think I was feeling particularly nasty yesterday, but maybe I was. I'll be waiting for the first comment from someone (I bet it comes in the first six months of the administration) which will say something like this:
January 15, 2009 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a list of the Democrats who voted in favor of the financial bailout last October but changed their minds yesterday, when the House passed a resolution disapproving of President Obama's request for $350 billion more
January 23, 2009 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink