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For those people always seeking Congresscritters with "spines"


Dem blasts Obama econ team's 'mumbo jumbo' 
By Alexander Bolton, The Hill, 01/13/09 01:36 PM [ET] 

A Democratic senator on Tuesday accused President-elect Obama's incoming director of the Office of Management and Budget of talking "mumbo jumbo" instead of offering hard details on the economy.

"I would think that in this era of freshness and transparency the new administration would want to come forth with detail instead of this mumbo jumbo that is going on," said Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), a member of the Senate Budget Committee, during Peter Orszag's confirmation hearing....Nelson went even further, blasting Obama's senior economic adviser, Lawrence Summers, for also failing to divulge the administration's plans during a meeting over the weekend with Democrats.

"The discussion on Sunday was devoid of details with Mr. Summers. When are we going to get those details?" said Nelson....


33 Comments

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Congress' job is to get the details. If they ask long and hard enough, they will get the details.

That is good as far as I am concerned.

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I have to question the use of the word "spines" when they are seemingly only to be found when facing someone of their own group. Spines are most needed when facing the opposition. In the case of Bill Nelson (D,FL), he sounds like someone with a flatulence disorder rather than someone that just found out he has vertebrae.

On another note, Speaker Pelosi found she has a sense of humor.

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Come to think of it, Bill Nelson sounds a lot like Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader, who is vowing to "protect taxpayers against the rush to spend their money."

Gee, Mitch. Where has your spine been for the last 8 years when protecting the taxpayer's money was nowhere on your agenda?

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Unbelievable, isn't it? Sean Hannity coming out against fearmongering - same vein.

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Or Rush coming out pro-gay. It just boggles.

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I know. All I can do is laugh. Through the tears.

;)

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a flatulence disorder

Perhaps. ;-)

To be honest, besides being reminded of one of blogistan's favorite lines, what this story made me think of is that somehow I got the impression that the Obama team was totally in control, all ready to go with an economic recovery plan dotted to a T, like week two of the presidency. Guess I got the wrong impression. Or if they are, they are apparently keeping the details secret from like, Dems on the Senate Budget Committee?

It's a little disturbing to hear a Senator on the Budget Committee complaining he's got no clue about their plans, when all the transition P.R. has been that something has to be done ASAP, and spin I've read about the Obama team's supposed genius had somehow got me thinking that they were plotting away with all the Dems in Congress, ready with precision efforts. Time to clear that from my brain, look for some other sources, as I apparently got the wrong impressions.

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Since the economic mess is a rolling avalanche (or series of them) I can only imagine that they get one plan figured out when they're hit by the latest snowfall and series of avalanches. It's like a bunch of cluster bombs or a mine field. How can anyone really prepare adequately?

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It's like a bunch of cluster bombs or a mine field.

Good analogy, TheraP. The only difference is these bombs have CEOs setting them off.

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Well... they wanted their bonuses, didn't they?

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Well, the problem is that there are so many problems. Nelson was bitching about the second half of TARP, wanting an explanation of how that money is to be spent and how it will be accountable. He was questioning Peter Orszag during his confirmation hearing, who could only offer that details would be available in mid-February. And apparently, the letter Summers sent out describing the broad outlines of their plan was also not detailed enough for Mr. Nelson's unsettled stomach.

Now, that problem is different from the problem that Senate Democrats had regarding the tax cuts that were in Obama's relief proposal. Out of the $300b, 40% were tax cuts designed to win over Republicans, which did not go down well with the Democrats.

They are cheap dates, however. After a private lunch on Capitol Hill, the Democrats came out "swooning" over the PE even though, like his aides, all he offered was a broad outline. But now the mantra was, “[i]t’s not his job to get into the weeds.”

Realistically speaking, Einstein himself would have trouble with this mess. That's the way I'm reading it, but who knows?

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What exactly does it mean to rain cats and dogs Seashell?

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Here's what I learned in kindergarten. That if you go outside you'll step in a poodle. :)

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Beat me to it...

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Sorry....;)

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Just don't step in a poodle!

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I go with the poodle theory myself dd, but why pray tell, are you asking me? Have I transformed from a political junkie to a meteorologist?

My chances of being right either way are about the same.

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What I read somewhere was that household pets would nestle into the roof thatch for warmth, but when it rained very hard, water would start trickling in, so they'd start jumping down from the roof.

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That is fun stuff. I love etiology, origins of myths and legends and sayings. Terrific.

I was making fun of Seashell for citing a little movie about cats and she did not get it because she is a puppy.

Your explanation is more than believable.

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Excellent point Seashell!

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I would like to see either the senate Democrats or Republicans give "all the details" for any recovery plan to take place in the middle of this charnel house that is now our economy.
Nobody's too damn sure what the Bush administration has done in any concrete terms. (We know some of what hasn't been done, little or nothing has been done to help people with bad loans.) So how do you give out "all the details" to fix a situation when very little of the "situation" is known to you?

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how do you give out "all the details" to fix a situation when very little of the "situation" is known to you?

Um, but but, Obama's nominee for Treasury Sec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_F._Geithner

is the 9th president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. In that role he also serves as Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee....He was Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs (1998–2001) under Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers. Summers was his mentor, but other sources call him a Rubin protégé....

In October 2003, he was named president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York....Once at the New York Fed, he became Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee component. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty....In March 2008, he arranged the rescue and sale of Bear Stearns, and later, in the same year, he is believed to have played a pivotal role in both the decision to bail out AIG as well as the government decision not to save Lehman Brothers from bankruptcy....

Geithner believes, along with Henry Paulson, that the Treasury Department needs new authority to experiment with responses to the financial crisis of 2008. Paulson has described Geithner as "[a] very unusually talented young man...[who] understands government and understands markets."...

has most definitely been working with the Bush administration on this all. Matter of fact, I heard Keith Olberman last night or the night before call him the only person in DC who really understands TARP.

If Obama's team hasn't been able to understand Geithner enough on what's going on to translate his prescriptions for Congress, were they just planning on letting him handle it all?

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Last week:

Paulson says Obama will decide on rescue spending

Wed Jan 7, 2009 10:30pm GMT
By Patrick Rucker and David Lawder

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The architect of the Bush administration's effort to stabilize the troubled U.S. financial system said on Wednesday President-elect Barack Obama will make the decisions on how to spend the remaining half of a $700 billion bank bailout program.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, nevertheless, urged the incoming president to continue using the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, to inject capital into distressed banks.

House of Representatives Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer told reporters he does not expect a request from the White House this week for more TARP money while Democrats draft a bill to set conditions on release of further funding....


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The following story from today does very much make it seem that Obama is asking for carte blanche trust without giving many details, he wants approval before details are available.

Note Dodd's statement especially. He says there's no time to add restrictions. That's basically saying "you have to trust the Obama administration, sorry but that's the way it is" Levin is basically saying "hey, don't worry, he's as suspicious as everyone else...":

Obama Lobbies Senators on TARP Money, Stimulus Plan (Update4) Jan. 13 (Bloomberg) By Kristin Jensen and Brian Faler

President-elect Barack Obama lobbied Democratic senators today as he seeks to build support for his economic stimulus proposals and for tapping the second half of a $700 billion financial-markets rescue fund.....

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel said Democrats are considering cutting the share of the economic stimulus package dedicated to tax cuts below the $300 billion or more that Democratic aides last week said Obama was seeking.

“The tax cuts will go in with 300 or less,” Rangel said after a closed-door meeting among House Democrats. He didn’t give details.

Obama spent a little more than an hour with his former Senate colleagues a day after President George W. Bush, acting on the president-elect’s behalf, notified lawmakers of the intent to release money from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. Lawmakers are demanding greater oversight of the program and more restrictions on how the money is used.

With the U.S. economy in recession, Obama also is calling for quick action on a $775 billion economic stimulus package. While Democratic leaders promise to pass the legislation by mid- February, the plan met criticism last week from lawmakers of both parties over its size and the balance of tax cuts and spending.

....

“This is not a popular vote,” said Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd of Connecticut, saying that some lawmakers question “the underlying need for this.” He said legislators don’t have time to take up legislation to impose new restrictions on the TARP program.

Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat and chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has proposed limits on the TARP funds. Today, he said he wants his measure to pass the House so it can be available for Senate consideration if Obama’s administration doesn’t live up to its commitments on spending the money.

‘Same Qualms’

Democrats who met with 0bama said he reassured them the next $350 billion in bailout money wouldn’t be spent the way the first half was doled out.

“He has the same qualms we do,” Michigan Senator Carl Levin told reporters....

TheraP's comment that it might be like a continually changing avalanche rings true to me, but I must say I have been sufficiently dissuaded from believing the spin that the Obama team is working like a well-oiled machine on this. They are not, they don't "have it all together," there are no details. (Geithner, instead of figuring out with should be done with another $300+ billion, is studying and commenting on his own tax returns.) Imagine what it would be like without the honeymoon factor.

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Turns out there was a House Financial Services committee hearing on TARP yesterday with the current regulators begging for the money:

Regulators: We need the second half of TARP

Fed's Kohn and top official at the FDIC tell Congress the remaining $350 billion for the bank bailout should be released; offer suggestions on how to spend the funds.
By David Ellis, CNNMoney.com staff writer

Last Updated: January 13, 2009: 3:31 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Federal regulators urged Congress Tuesday to release the $350 billion in remaining bank bailout money, even as they lobbied for a different approach to spending the remaining funds.

Testifying before the House Financial Services committee, Federal Reserve vice chairman Donald Kohn and John Bovenzi, the chief operating officer of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, told lawmakers that the second half of the $700 billion so-called Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, will be necessary to prevent the U.S. economy and financial system from deteriorating any further.

"The remaining TARP funds will play an essential role in further strengthening the financial system and restoring normal credit flows," Kohn said....

and today
Pelosi Hints Obama Will Get His $350 Billion TARP Request;
Senate Vote Is Expected to Come as Soon as Thursday

ABC News, By JONATHAN KARL and MARK MOONEY
Jan. 14, 2009

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This front page New York Times piece from today backs up TheraP's comment, even as it also suggests a money pit:

News Analysis: Banks in Need of Even More Bailout Money

By EDMUND L. ANDREWS and ERIC DASH

Even some of the bailout program’s harshest critics acknowledge that things most likely would be even worse without it.

WASHINGTON — Even before word came on Tuesday that Citigroup might split into pieces to shore up its finances, an unpleasant message was moving through Congress and President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team: the banks need more taxpayer money.

In all likelihood, a lot more money.

Mr. Obama seems to know it; a week before his swearing-in, he is lobbying Congress to release the other half of the financial industry bailout fund. Democratic leaders in Congress seem to know it, too; they are urging their rank and file to act quickly to release the rescue money. And Ben S. Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, certainly knows it.

On Tuesday, Mr. Bernanke publicly made the case that one of the most unpopular and most scorned programs in Washington — the $700 billion bailout program — needs to pour hundreds of billions more into the very banks and financial institutions that already received federal money and caused much of the credit crisis in the first place....

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In something like this, I would love to be proven wrong... but yes, I did read that this am.

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Methinks "details" is one of those concepts far less useful in the concrete than it is in the abstract. The Devil is in the Details is guess...but then maybe so is the Deity. What level are we talking about, anyhow? In political discourse, that concept floats like pond scum. (There's a g-rated metaphor for you). Detail means one level more than provided by your verbal sparring partner. Pincushion? the detail is the number of pins. Number of pins? the detail is the third pin from the left, second row. That pin? The detail is the diameter of the head. 1/32nd of an inch? The detail is the number of angels dancing on it. And so it goes. I'm reminded of the film Powers of Ten. The film is online at http://www.powersof10.com/index.php?mod=watch_powersof10 (registration required). Or visit Orders of Magnitude at http://www.ordersofmagnitude.biz/index.html.

I suspect that the amount of detail which would satisfy Ben Nelson is one order of magnitude larger than the capacity of his brain to hold said detail.

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I think you're being a bit too harsh a judge of Nelson given what I just read.

Former TPM reporter Paul Kiel published this Monday afternoon at Pro Publica:

Obama Team’s Request for Bailout Money Short on Specifics

by Paul Kiel - January 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Perhaps one of Ben Nelson's staff read it, because among other things, it says

..In a letter to Congress today [2] (PDF), Lawrence Summers, Obama's pick to lead the National Economic Council, made the initial pitch.

Judging from the letter, however, it's hard to gauge just how differently the Obama team would manage the bailout money. The three-page letter is long on general promises but short on specifics....in the end, the Obama administration seems likely to emerge with a good deal of flexibility of how the money will be spent....

And Kiel published this this afternoon:

Specifics Still Lacking, Obama Closer to Getting Bailout Money by Paul Kiel, ProPublica - January 14, 2009 5:02 pm EST

On the strength of vague assurances [1] that the second half of the $700 billion will be managed better than the first half, President-elect Barack Obama seems to be cruising towards having the money in hand for his administration next week.

Until today, the Obama team’s pitch to release the funds had been short on specifics [1]. But this afternoon, Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) announced [2] that the Obama team had assured him it would spend between $40 billion and $100 billion of the bailout money on foreclosure relief for homeowners.

Beyond that, it seems Obama won’t spell out just what his administration will do with the money. Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), head of the Senate banking committee, said yesterday that he no longer expected a detailed proposal [3] – the details will come via hearings in the Senate....

Kiel links to the 3-page PDF request that Congress got from Summers in the first article. Remember how much outrage from the left, right and center about Paulson's initial proposal and how many pages it was?

Looks to me like they want the money now with as few strings attached as possible and they want to be trusted with it, they are confident they can support what they have done with it later in hearings. Looks to me like Obama is throwing bones to the squeakiest wheels who have the time to and the background to have an idea of what's going on just to get it approved. It is understandable that a congressperson, especially one on a related committee, would raise reservations/objections. They are not supposed to be a rubber stamp to executive power.

My point: this is not a good sales job. It's a rush sales job because they believe in the urgency. But Bush, Paulson and Bernake did the same thing with the first rendition of this story. This is being pieced together, not done with teamwork of both branches of government, not like it's supposed to be done. The point of not giving them all $700 billion at once was so that wouldn't happen. But even though Obama knew that, and knew the names and addresses of the new Congress, they and his team didn't plan much at all. It's still all wing and a prayer, and that wasn't supposed to happen, it's why it was split into two separate payments.

Certainly wing and a prayer under Obama sounds much much better to me than wing and a prayer under lame duck Bush, but it's certainly not what they have been selling, and it is disappointing. It's Congress' fault, too, no doubt about it.

Geithner's confirmation hearing is going to be tough, he better have more specifics then, he better be as well prepared and as on top of things and as practiced as Hillary Clinton was at hers. This spending on the financial sector is very unpopular with lots of Americans, many have not been sold on the value of it, and a lot of things could turn very sour very quickly if conservative GOP detractors can find the right notes to hit.

Keep in mind that Obama was on Bush's side for the first round, against some very loud "small government" conservatives and there are also quite a few "small government" conservatives who have not been fans of big spending Bush for quite some time, and some Dems with very big qualms for which pork was added by the Senate to win them over. Having a dinner for John McCain the night before the inauguration isn't going to help Obama much there if you recall where McCain ended up on the bailout. I don't see any of these political problems as having been addressed by a supposedly clever team.

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In another piece yesterday, Kiel says:

..Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) has introduced legislation in the House [5] that is long on specifics: It requires that at least $40 billion of the $350 billion be spent on foreclosure relief and institutions that get bailout money issue public quarterly reports on what they’ve done with it. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has said that she’ll bring that bill to a vote this week, but Roll Call reports [6] that the bill is unlikely to get a vote in the Senate and “could serve as a fig leaf for House Democrats nervous about a public backlash against Wall Street bailouts....

If true, furnishing fig leafs for $700 billion bailouts of the financial world out of bills expected to fail is not a long-term solution to the fact that a large portion of the public is unhappy with the bailout. Cross your fingers that there's some significant economic turnaround by the mid-terms, or you could see those holding that fig leaf lose their seats.

The whole situation is too reminiscent of 1992-1994 for my taste (the success of the "Gingrich revolution" like a slap in the face when so many of us thought things were getting so much better--I remember being shocked at the 94 mid terms, no idea that so many were so unhappy.) But the stakes this time are so very much larger. I really wish they had done more work and more convincing over what should be done over the last month and a half. If a member of the Budget Committee of the same party feels totally out of the loop about what they are up to, so are lots of others, and that's not a good thing. We're still not out of the woods of looking at the possibility of a world depression and the dangerous political reactions that could engender.

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This is a good, realistic analysis of the problem, aa. I like it better than mine, I think!

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You may be right. I don't think I was feeling particularly nasty yesterday, but maybe I was. I'll be waiting for the first comment from someone (I bet it comes in the first six months of the administration) which will say something like this:

Policy here, Policy there, Wonkishness everywhere. The Obama team has lost sight of the forest for the trees. They need to give us the big picture

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