Big Hole in Winger Defense of Honduran Military Coup
The right wing blogs are abuzz with the same argument: Zelaya acted
illegally in pushing for a referendum to get a 2nd term. (Conservatives
reflexively support military coups in Latin America).
Except the referendum would not give him a second term. It was a non-binding referendum to decide on a vote in this November's Presidential election to hold a "National Constituent Assembly" (like a Constitutional Convention)
Yes, the same Presidential election where Zelaya's successor would be elected.
So, how the hell can Zelaya be furthering his stay in office by this referendum? It doesn't make sense. Not plausible.
The wingers are pointing to articles 239 and 42 in the Honduran Constitution. And on the face of it, it seems like a powerful argument. But they refuse to show how this referendum keeps him in power.
Again: He can't run for re-election by the Honduran Constitution and he wouldn't be allowed on the ballot. So, how in blue blazes is he furthering his stay in office?
They cannot and will not address that!
Here's a link to a more lucid argument on articles 239 and 42 (it is creepy how they have replicated this argument so rapidly on the blogosphere):
Links
http://www.poliblogger.com/?p=16111
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31604879/ns/world_news-americas/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070103210.html
http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Honduras/hond05.html
Except the referendum would not give him a second term. It was a non-binding referendum to decide on a vote in this November's Presidential election to hold a "National Constituent Assembly" (like a Constitutional Convention)
Yes, the same Presidential election where Zelaya's successor would be elected.
So, how the hell can Zelaya be furthering his stay in office by this referendum? It doesn't make sense. Not plausible.
The wingers are pointing to articles 239 and 42 in the Honduran Constitution. And on the face of it, it seems like a powerful argument. But they refuse to show how this referendum keeps him in power.
Again: He can't run for re-election by the Honduran Constitution and he wouldn't be allowed on the ballot. So, how in blue blazes is he furthering his stay in office?
They cannot and will not address that!
Here's a link to a more lucid argument on articles 239 and 42 (it is creepy how they have replicated this argument so rapidly on the blogosphere):
Links
http://www.poliblogger.com/?p=16111
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31604879/ns/world_news-americas/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070103210.html
http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Honduras/hond05.html
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The right wing blogs are pointing out the ironic but typical double-standard of Obama's defense of "democracy" in Honduras and in Iran.
As for your "gotcha" discoveries about Honduras, you fail to explain the purpose of the constitutional assembly - given that
- it is ILLEGAL under the constitution to change term limits for presidents.
- the ballots printed in Venezuela were brought in at the last moment
- the Supreme Court and Congress said that holding a referendum would make the president a law-breaker (and he said he would hold it anyway)
Referendum was used in Venezuela, Ecuador and other countires in Latin America to modify term limits, so that a president could run for office indefinitely. Referendums were used because it was the only way to modify a constitution.
In Honduras, a "yes" in a referendum would have meant a consinstitutional assembly, legally convened, to recommend changes in constitution. It's the only way it could have been done. And then Zelaya would have been able to run again.
Thankfully, the interim president (from the same party) said that Zelaya would only return to power as a head of foreign invading army.
July 2, 2009 7:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I should have said - "Consitutional Convention" charged with changing the constitution.
July 2, 2009 7:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
They call it a National Constituent Assembly. But, pretty much same idea, as I understand.
And, if you review that Constitution, there does seem to be a LOT of room for improvement. Plus, it's been modified many times in past 30 years.
July 2, 2009 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please provide the proof that this Constituent Assembly was for the purpose of changing term limits. I know the coup leaders have made this their assertion. But, I've not seen anything to back it up.
I mean, do you have the language of the referendum question that says so? Or have they just speculated on his motives?
He would be out of power when this Assembly would get around to meeting, so how does the Assembly keep him in power?
This is the point many coup backers keep ducking. Can you address it?
July 2, 2009 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
lalo doesn't address anything that can be factually shown.
July 2, 2009 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"deepening a constitutional confrontation over Mr. Zelaya’s effort to lift the limit of a single four-year term for presidents. Mr. Zelaya vowed to push ahead with an unofficial vote scheduled for Sunday to measure public support for lifting term limits."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/26/world/americas/26briefs-Honduras.html?scp=10&sq=&st=nyt
July 2, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
So we have the military throw him out of office before his present term is up. A military coup over a nonbinding referendum is a bit of an overkill.
July 2, 2009 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps. But given their history, our role in it and the games Chavez is playing, I'm more than sympathetic to their intent not to allow anything like that to ever happen again.
July 2, 2009 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
let's have a coup to prevent a coup; you've reached an entirely new level of gibberish.
July 3, 2009 6:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
LALO, much of main stream media has failed to show exactly the real question that was going to be asked June 28th. June's poll or NovembeR's referendum will never ask for changing term limits. That is only in the Opposition imagination.
THERE IS NOT PROOF THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL ASSEMBLY WILL FOLLOW THAT SOLE PURPOSE.
July 11, 2009 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
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