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The DOW Is CRASHING!!!
Market chart.
Dow 8,923.58 -334.52 (-3.61%)
(3:19pm Eastern)
_________________________________________________
Despite the "Bailout"
Despite an additional $38 Billion going to AIG
Despite the Hundreds of Billions being pumped out by MANY Central Banks around the World...
Despite EVERYTHING!!!!
The DOW just continues to FALL!!!!
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Comments (52)
Whoa, below 9,000 now? It will be interesting to see where it closes. Is it Black Friday yet?
October 9, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Online Journal: The Real Story is the United States is Bankrupt
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3840.shtml
Who will be today's J Pierpont Morgan?
October 9, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody's big enough Donal.
October 9, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Comment at bottom at 6:43.
October 9, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
No! Friday isn't until tomorrow :shudder:
I was thinking it might bottom out at 8,500 or so... Maybe 7,500 worst case...
It seems like 8,500 is a certainty that's going to happen sooner rather than later...
How bad is this?
October 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems about the same level of drop we've seen past few days. "Crashing" seems a little over the top. If it's crashing, it's taking it's time. Instead of Black Friday, it's looking more like Black October :-/
October 9, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Dow is probably going to have to hit 8200-8400 before there's any capitulation. That's the point where people will start buying again because that's when the stocks will starting hitting the "value" range. I think what we're seeing now is the result of nervous, non-professional investors freaking out and trying to save their 401k's, etc. This is not a good time to sell, unfortunately, because you're just locking in your losses. There's nowhere to move the money that will leave you on the upside when things turn around. A very awkward time for investors. But you shouldn't try to catch a falling knife.
October 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe that Wall Street knows exactly what it has done: it has squandered the capital of our nation just to further enrich a few people. Right now our government is helping Wall Street quickly sweep up any cash that's still around, along with the incomes of future American workers.
Wall Street knows the game is over. The public is starting to figure it out too. I believe there will be no substantial recovery, ever, for the USA.
October 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You speak of Wall Street as if it is some giant, metal-munching monster. Wall Street is a place where equities are traded. That's all. I live in Minneapolis, and I'm Wall Street. My friend Zac lives in Texas and he's Wall Street. The search engine you probably use every day is Wall Street. Stop thinking of Wall Street as some vast conspiracy, and you'll be a lot closer to understanding what's going on. Wall Street is a marketplace--nothing more.
October 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The proper purpose of securities is to capitalize companies so those companies can provide useful products or services. Now securities provide a different purpose: further enriching the rich.
In my opinion, further enriching the rich is not a useful service, especially when it bankrupts the people whose hard work earned the money that made Wall Street possible in the first place.
October 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Voice of sanity here.
Listen to him.
October 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
that refers to Hreb.
October 9, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Lux. All day today my neighbor has been going on about evil Mr. Wall Street. She's ready to track the guy down and kick his ass. I just wish people had a little better understanding about what happens on Wall Street. It's the one place in America where the playing field is close to level. I'll probably never be able to afford to make enough "favor trades" to get an invite to buy into an IPO, but I haven't done too badly so far. The rich and the not-so-rich both do well when the companies they own stock in prosper. I don't get the whole "investor as victim" concept.
October 9, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't plan on opening any of my retirement fund statements for at least five years now.
October 9, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think the money is there at the moment to even buy in at value.
October 9, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I bailed a large percentage of my portfolio out of the market when things were on the upswing a few years ago. I just didn't like the setup. So I've got plenty of liquidity at this point, but we'll see where the economy goes. It would be nice to think I could start buying up attractive stocks again soon, but the way things are going with the economy, I'm afraid I might need the money for groceries. *:o)
I'm never really worried. I own a tent and a good sleeping bag. Get me to the canyons in Utah or the Black Hills in South Dakota and I can get along just fine.
October 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
At some point there will be a great buying opportunity for those with cash they can do without for a few years.
October 9, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wasn't that Japans message too?
Look how far they have grown in the past 10 years.
October 9, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
People speak as if they think that Wall Street investors are losing money. Actually, nobody loses money in this market unless they are long and sell.
There is a lot of short interest being taken up because those in the know understand that the herd is easily spooked. They are cleaning up all the way down. At a certain point, the herd will calm down, and then the wise guys will go long--and then, the herd will probably be afraid to buy until the market gets overbought again--and then the wise guys will sell them their shares and go short.
It's the game that is played folks. That's the way it's always been played.
If you go long and can't stomach your investment losing 90% of it's value, you have no business being in the market--Warren Buffett said that. A fool and his money never get together in the first place.--I said that.
October 9, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another voice of sanity.
October 9, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
On Today, they were showing Palin, Obama and McCain masks for Halloween. Nothing on Biden.
I want dress up as Henry Paulson, knock on doors, and demand they give me all their candy to save the country.
October 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love it!
October 9, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I want a Bush mask, with Palin hair and glasses, and lipstick!
October 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
A year ago TODAY the DOW set it's all time high 14,164
October 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where was the Dow before the Housing/Credit default swap bubble? I'd pick that as the new target.
October 9, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's worse than that Donal. We're now getting into real economy effects of a major downturn - which we weren't facing then.
Another thing to watch is that the Dow is weighted by the share price of the 30 constituents, and the biggest ones left include Walmart and P&G (i.e. Chase, Citigroup, Amex and Bank of America's total share prices are ~$94 - while Walmart & P&G are $112 on their own, but the latter two are down
October 9, 2008 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
down just
October 9, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
software keeps eating this. will stop trying now!
October 9, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
We passed that earlier. That would be about 11000.
-Thanks Zat
October 10, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dow Jones Industrial Average. INDU (INDEX)
8,673.41
Change:-584.69 -6.32%
Volume:339,313,387
3:59pm 10/09/2008
October 9, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Close: - 659.96 to 8598.14
October 9, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dow Jones Industrial Average. INDU (INDEX)
8,625.14
Change:-632.96 -6.84%
Volume:403,907,497
4:03pm 10/09/2008
October 9, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know Googles numbers run on a delay... the Final number will be up in a few minutes...
But right now its at -647
October 9, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hell, we may hit the bottom in after-hours trading. If it goes below 8200, I'd say we've got trouble. Then it's free-fall time.
October 9, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think there is a floor around 7500. My original bet was 7500-8500. It doesn't really matter where the floor is, just that we get the machinery moving again.
This is really kind of the collapse of a macro-bubble. The S&L's and dot-coms were kind of derived bubbles of this underlying macro-bubble that was right in front of our noses but so big that we couldn't see it.
October 9, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was thinking 9000 might be the floor past which was a black hole. What are you basing your figures on, Hreb?
October 9, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
*below* which, better said.
October 9, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dow Jones Industrial Average. INDU (INDEX)
8,589.70
Change:-668.40 -7.22%
Volume:429,762,890
4:06pm 10/09/2008
The bright side in this is that Obama is now virtually guaranteed a win.
October 9, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
NY Times says 8589.70 at close.
October 9, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Make that 8579.19
October 9, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a little delay because it takes awhile for all the trades to get updated. As of 4:07pm, it was at 8,579.19, down 678.91, or 7.33% on a volume of 436,088,298 shares. Look at the difference in volume from 3:59pm.
October 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
-678.91
October 9, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to state the obvious here:
THANKS A HELLUVA LOT, REPUBLICANS! THIS IS YOUR FAULT, AND YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE TAKEN AWAY.
October 9, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
October 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I certainly give Republicans a lot of the blame, but many Democrats haven't been much better, and I'm not going to wait for Clearthinker to remind us that most of us been enjoying an inflated standard of living based on cheap energy and easy credit.
October 9, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bless you, Donal!
October 9, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was emailed around my office:
That's what they did in Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed.
Cheers
October 9, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is entirely predictable. And in fact, was predicted.
As James Kunstler points out, money is based on trust, nothing more. No one trusts the money now.
Again, you can also look at the trend in this country for the past 25 years or so -- we have monetarized our economy. The financial sector was the most dominant sector during the Clinton years.
For convenient memes:
Bush family = Big Oil
Clinton family = Wall St.
I repeat: both parties are to blame. The GOP has done more recently, of course.
The dollar is collapsing and the only thing keeping us afloat is that others have pegged their currency to us.
There are several next steps:
a) China and other foreign investors (including the Arab nations) can now start dumping their foreign currency holdings at their leisure. They can literally finish us off at any time of their choosing.
b) The Chinese can stop hoarding the yuan to have it become the defacto standard.
c) The end of cheap energy will prevent us from righting ourselves -- it will be costly to build any infrastructure.
d) What oil is left is in the new "eastern bloc": Russian, Arab nations, China.
Many of you kept talking about how I was "doom and gloom"... of course, had you been listening, you might have steeled yourself to this.
And, yes, MUCH tougher times are ahead.
Want proof? Iceland has looked to RUSSIA to bail them out of their mess. Why? Because we spent our national treasure.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/business/worldbusiness/08icebank.html
And for those of you wanting the blame the GOP: you still don't get it. Ralph Nader did have it correct in 2000: both parties are beholden to corporate America. That doesn't mean you should have voted for him, it does mean, he was correct.
The worse is yet to come: wait until this plays out to heating oil and gasoline.
Then you can break out the hankies and sob.
October 9, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Donal, I got some trouble with that Mazza article. Smells to me like some self-serving tripe in there. Here, in particular: "We now face market forces uninhibited by DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE - Chinese dictators & Saudi princes [who] can move trillions of dollars without so much as a press release."??
The American economy (and to a lesser but still real degree, the rest of the OECD) has long fed off the remains of the countries it drove into the dirt. Like in the Asian crisis. But as long as it was happening somewhere else, to someone else, why hey - those people weren't really working; their economies weren't serious economies; those currencies didn't count; those liquidated savings weren't real money - so screw 'em! And it was OUR mammoth firms that went in & bought up the remnants for 10 cents on the dollar. That ate up engineers and skilled workforces and new equipment and patents, that re-employed people for nothing, that "persuaded" other nations to hack their social services to nothing, and privatize everything.
And you know what? Everyone in America (and the rest of the West) made money off those deals. Every... last... one... of... us. We got cheaper food and clothes and toys and electronics and steel and cars. The fat that rolled in meant our taxes could be lower. The profits meant our Marketing & Management & Money-shuffling bonuses could be fattened up.
Democratic governance???? Where was democratic governance in all that? In the nations affected? Anybody remember open & informed debate on this shit back here at home? But let's be clear. 5 minutes research would have shown us precisely what was going on. We didn't want to know. Better to have another $50 knocked off the cost of that plasma tv.
Maybe we should've asked.
October 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was one exhausting day. The short sale ban ran out Wednesday night, so maybe we were seeing all that repressed sell-energy come out. Still the ban was a bad idea so good riddance.
Don't know what's coming. My gut tells me if this was just a US thing, no big deal. The fact that the rest of the world has the bug too, complicates things enormously as the rescuing capital won't come from anywhere but here.
October 9, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well... World markets were down bigtime today... I think the Nikkei was down over 10%.
All others were down, too...
Let's see if the mistrust/panic feedback loop continues today...
October 10, 2008 8:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
-128.00 Today (10-10-08)
Not bad considering it was down over 600 points at least twice during the day...
October 10, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
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