« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »
Just got called a N***** lover. Have I arrived?
My first racial slur. How sweet. Just got called a N***** lover while standing in my front yard by two courageous teenage boys who yelled it while driving by at fifty. Why would they do that? Must have been the big Obama sign in my yard. This has been fun explaining to my six year old.
Gear up, boys, change is coming...
Advertisement









Comments (85)
Where are you from?
October 4, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am out here in bluer than blue Washington, but in the southwest, the Joe Six Pack area of the state (where everyone and their mother is in a union and SHOULD be supporting Obama).
October 4, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I got called the same thing a couple weeks ago while canvassing. I just laughed and told the guy to have a nice day. You should have seen the shade of red he turned.
October 5, 2008 7:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
You should have responded,
"Thank you for that badge of honor. I will wear it proudly."
I was called that the first time some 50 years ago. It is the greatest tribute to my judgment I have so far been paid during my life. I do wish I could claim that I was also on Nixon's "Enemies List"; alas, I wasn't well enough known, publicly, to have sufficient status to be eligible therefor.
October 5, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's lucky that something a couple of teenage idiots shouted from a passing car is available to distract attention from Obama's total failure as the leader of the Democratic Party during the financial meltdown and bail-out.
Obama actually voted for the fucking $700,000,000,000 giveaway, but who cares?
This election is obviously about racism and nothing but racism, because of something a couple of teenage idiots shouted from a passing car.
So let's never forget that racism is the only significant issue in the United States and the world, and if any of us were about to forget it for one second, it's totally impoprtant to remember that somewhere in America a couple of teenage idiots shouted something stupid out of a passing car.
Meanwhile Obama blathered meaninglessly about nothing for a few days before the $700,000,000,000 giveaway, and then actually voted to make the greatest single payoff in the history of the world for no particular reason, but...
None of that matters, because a couple of teenage idiots shouted something stupid from a passing car, and reminded all of us, just in case we were about to forget it for one second...
Racism is the only significant problem in the United States and really the only significant problem in the galaxy, and if you ever doubted the incredible importance of racism in the United States...
Maybe you didn't hear about that stupid thing that a couple of teenage boys shouted from a passing car, proving once again that...
Racism is the only significant problem in the United States, and so what if the so-called leader of the Democratic Party showed about the same amount of leadership as a paperclip under my refrigerator and voted to give $700,000,000,000 to a bunch of bankers who just finished disappearing another $700,000,000,000 and there is absolutely no guarantee that they won't also disappear the $700,000,000,000 that the so-called leader of the Democratic Party just voted to give them, but none of that matters, because...
A couple of teenage boys shouted something stupid from a passing car.
October 5, 2008 7:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
And just in case those two teenage idiots miraculously happen to read this blog, and in the even more unlikely case that what they shouted from their passing car signified anything other than a fleeting impulse to shout something stupid out of a passing car, let me suggest...
If you're ever tempted to shout "n-word lover" at anybody again, don't waste your brain-dead hate-speech on an Obamabot, because that raised-white overprivileged preppie con-man from Hawaii has absolutely no connection with African-American experience or African-American history whatsoever, except for ruthlessly exploiting the illusion of race to get himself nominated and elected again and again, and if you absolutely have to shout something at an Obamabot from a passing car, the appropriate insult to shout is...
SUCKER!
October 5, 2008 8:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think I remember you from other threads. You've always had these tool-like tendencies, haven't you? I mean, this isn't some alarming new symptom that we should worry about.
October 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
SUCKER!
October 5, 2008 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
The only noteworthy example of "racism" in the United States in the last ten years is Barack Obama playing the race card against Hillary and Bill Clinton over and over and over, and in the meantime, in a place where ethnic hatred is a reality instead of just another hustle for the sociopathic con-man Barack Obama, the bodies of Sunnis and Shias show up every fucking day somewhere in Iraq with holes drilled all over them with electric drills.
So while the bodies of Sunnis and Shia show up somewhere in Iraq every fucking day with holes drilled all over them with electric drills...
Some pathetic suburban airhead thinks its worth blogging about when a couple of teenage morons shout some meaningless horseshit out of a passing car...
And while this ridiculous blog by a pathetic suburban airhead was sitting on the rec list at TPMCafe, somewhere in Iraq Sunnis were drilling holes in the not-quite-dead bodies of Shia, and Shia were drilling holes in the not-quite-dead bodies of Sunnis, but nobody cares in the fucking United States, because...
It's so much more important when a couple of teenage morons shout some meaningless horseshit out of a passing car than it is when thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of Sunnis and Shia are tortured and murdered in Iraq.
The sociopathic con-man Barack Obama has voted to fund the genocidal occupation of Iraq again and again and again, but nobody cares in the fucking United States, because...
We have infinitely worse problems than Iraqis tortured somewhere in Iraq every fucking day with electric drills, and a prime example of the horrible problems that we have in the fucking United States, the terrible problems that make thousands of bodies tortured with electric drills in Iraq look like nothing is..
A couple of teenage morons shouting some meaningless horseshit from a passing car.
October 5, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you have a better idea? I mean besides spewing meaningless crap. I guess the whack-a-doodles have to come out every now-and-then.
October 5, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do I have a better idea? A better idea than voting to fund the genocidal occupation of Iraq? How about...
Voting against it?
Do I have a better idea than throwing $700,000,000,000 at a problem that nobody understands any better than anybody understood the ultra-complicated financial packages that got us into this mess in the first place?
Do I have a better idea than donating $700,000,000,000 to a megabanks, without really helping homeowners in default? Here's a chunk of Dennis Kucinich's article on Common Dreams, at http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/10/03-11
"We should have created a mechanism for our government to take a controlling interest in mortgage-backed securities and use our power to work out a new deal for the homeowners. We could have done this. We should have done this. But we didn't.
Now millions of Americans will face the threat of foreclosure without any help. And the numbers will soon rise for a number of reasons. Not only because of the Alt-A, jumbo mortgages which will soon be reset at higher interest rates, but because the London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR) is pushing up rates on adjustable mortgages and more than half of the US adjustable mortgage rates are tied to LIBOR. Homeowner defaults will grow in significant numbers. Let's see if Congress will be as quick to help homeowners on Main Street as they were to help speculators on Wall Street.
Now the government will have to borrow $700 billion from banks, with interest, to give banks a $700 billion bailout, and in return the taxpayers get $700 billion in toxic debt. The Senate "improved" the bailout by giving tax breaks to people in foreclosure. People in foreclosure need help paying their mortgage, they do not seek tax breaks."
October 5, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
And your solution was ...........?
When businesses, schools, etc. were about to become unable to make their payrolls, your solution was.........?
Refresh my memory because I can't quite recall Your Fabulous Solution. You know, the one that wouldn't be vetoed by Teh Stupid.
October 5, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, "Freeze," for calling me a nigger-lover.
You can go now.
October 5, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. He's not about that. Believe me.
October 5, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
JNagarya is obviously a scabby, drooling, penis-flapping crack pimp, but I have no idea who or what he "loves," if he actually loves anything except playing the role of a self-righteous but still scabby, drooling, and penis-flapping crack pimp on TPMCafe.
October 5, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although I generally only read the first and last "sentences" of your screeds, I find myself wondering if "Jacob Freeze" is your real name.
Why? Because the next shoot-em-up will probably have your name on it. Your pathology is obviously untreatable; I just hope there aren't too many people standing around when you decide to end it all.
October 5, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Harharharhar!!!
You wish!
But thanks for your phony concern, you scabby, drooling, penis-flapping crack pimp for Obama, CVille Dem!
October 5, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rural area outside of Vancouver? Same stuff happening in Oregon among older whites. Absolute fury. But to know the Northwest, you gotta know deep strains of racism reaching back 150 years. Try getting served in order of arrival in small cities on the coast if you're not white, much less the deep cultural hostility.
I was up in Battle Ground, Washington the other day and didn't see a single minority. Lots of states though at my Obama sticker. Even the Dems in these places seem reluctant to have an Obama poster or sticker in these. That's race.
October 5, 2008 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hang in there.
When Hillary ran in 2000 I had at least two and probably three lawn signs vandalized .Put up another one, went to the police and complained and this one was left alone. I wondered what sort of reception my complaint would receive assuming that the police probably supported her opponent- particularly since I live on Long Island which he represented as a populur local congressman.
But I was treated correctly.
Assuming you have at least reasonable confidence in your local police I'd suggest telling them , citing the "broken window" theory which Guiliani invoked in getting rid of the obnoxious but harmless "window cleaners" at NYC traffic lights.
Kids who get away with something that's minor are then tempted to go one step further. Then another.Sadly that was true of me at that age.
You'd actually be doing them a favor if you could get the police to send them a message to knock it off. Chances are the one or another of the cops has a kid who knows those kids and that route could be used.
I'm sorry you were subjected to that. It must be upsetting.
October 4, 2008 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll do you one better. I am MARRIED to a police officer. What's more? He has a take-home car, meaning that his patrol car was in front of the house (about 75 feet from our Obama sign) when they drove by.
He just left for work on the night shift. He is heading up the hill to look for the car and perhaps have a word. I'll update you if anything interesting happens.
I already wrote a letter to the editor of my newspaper, thanking the young men for elevating the dialogue and suggesting that thanks to President Obama, they may actually be able to go to college and learn even more big words.
October 4, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad we can't make it illegal for someone to say something we don't like. Damn that first amendment! Maybe you libs can get that one revoked, after you revoke the 2nd amendment. I know you are trying, the whole 'hate speech' thing is a good start.
October 6, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
This election is calling out the nasties, as well as the fearful. I heard from a friend that an employee at the school where she teaches was worried about the unruly, uncouth, black Section 8 renters in her neighborhood getting more rowdy and uppity, perhaps rioting, if Obama wins. That the worry made no sense was not sufficient to disabuse this person of the notion.
October 4, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Probably thinking of the aftermath of sporting events. Drunken celebrations that turn violent. Tell them it's just the Presidency. Not like it's the World Cup is it?
October 5, 2008 11:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Libgirl, where do you live?
October 4, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Libgirl... We love you back!
October 4, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks! This is a great comment. Made me feel better. Haven't quite talked by sister off the ledge (I called her and she is ready to spit nails) but I am working on her.
A side note, my sister is traveling the country right now in an RV with her husband and four kids (a once in a lifetime, see America trip). She is in North Carolina for a few days, and said there are Obama signs everywhere.
Change is coming!!!!!!
October 4, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
SENATOR OBAMA,DOES GOD NEED TO LOBBY OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD FOR POORER AMERICAN'S,OR ARE YOU WATCHING OUT FOR THEM ??
SURELY OUR US CONGRESS & US SUPREME COURT BOTH KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STATE MURDER & A POSSIBLE EXECUTION IN GEORGIA NEXT WEEK ???
OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD CONTINUE TO DENY MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION EVEN THOUGH WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS & FALSE INCARCERATIONS CONTINUE ALL ACROSS AMERICA ???
*** 700 BILLION $$$ AVAILABLE FOR US BAILOUT, & NO $$$ FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION ???????
WHERE ARE AMERICA 'S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ??
SENATOR OBAMA, THIS JUDICIAL INJUSTICE HAS BECOME AN AMERICAN ART FORM, AND NO LONGER CAN BE KEPT HIDDEN OR SECRET FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EVEN IF CERTAIN (501c3) U$ RELIGIOU$ LEADER$ HAVE BEEN $ILENCED ??
LETS ALL HOPE OUR MEDIA FRIENDS CONTINUE TO SHOW AN INTEREST IN REPORTING ON THIS AMERICAN HORROR FACING THESE (TENS OF THOUSANDS) FORGOTTEN AND TRAPPED POORER AMERICANS, AND HOW THIS PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER HANDLES THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FACING AMERICA'S LATINO AND BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ????
WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL INJUSTICE CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK & LATINO AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????
*** WHEN GOD'S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***
THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????
**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.
****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.
Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.
This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.
This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!
Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus with our US FEDERAL COURTS and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!
For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.
It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.
This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!
***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!
A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.
** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com
(424-247-2013)
October 4, 2008 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love this story :). Just to add to the variations on a theme.
When my kids were still in school, the neighborhood adolescent thugs were - the children of the cop who had a take home car!
I moved away when my nest emptied so I have no idea how they turned out.
October 4, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love the story Ginny, but I think you missed what I said. They are not the children of a cop; I am the wife of the cop. They yelled n***** lover at me, while I was standing less than five feet away from my husband's patrol car. My husband and I are both very loud and proud Obama supporters, with signs in our windows and a big one in our yard, as well as stickers on our cars.
October 5, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
YOU SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO WHERE THE USA IS GOING "AFTER" OBAMA IS ELECTED. THE FIRST BILL IS ON HOLD UNTIL OBAMA IS REIGNING> CAN AMERICA AFFORD REPARATION AND A WAR IN AFRICA?
FROM THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS:
H.RES.194
Title: Apologizing for the enslavement and racial segregation of
African-Americans.
Sponsor: Rep Cohen, Steve [TN-9] (introduced 2/27/2007) Cosponsors
(120)
Latest Major Action: 7/29/2008 Passed/agreed to in House. Status: On
motion to suspend the rules and agree to the resolution, as amended
Agreed to by voice vote.
————————————————– ——————————
SUMMARY AS OF:
2/27/2007–Introduced.
Acknowledges the fundamental injustice, cruelty, brutality, and
inhumanity of slavery and Jim Crow. Apologizes to African-Americans
on
behalf of the U.S. people for the wrongs committed against them and
their ancestors. Commits to rectifying the lingering consequences of
slavery and Jim Crow and to stopping future human rights violations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
S. CON. RES. 25 (ES) Whereas in 2005 the Government of Zimbabwe launched Operation Murambatsvina (`Operation Throw Out the Trash') against citizens in major cities and suburbs throughout Zimbabwe, depriving... (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 7
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2007/06/26
Committee: Senate Foreign Relations
S. CON. RES. 25 (RS) Condemning the recent violent actions of the Government of Zimbabwe against peaceful opposition party activists and members of civil society. (Reported in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 7
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2007/06/26
Committee: Senate Foreign Relations
S. 1513 (IS) Predominantly Black Institution Act of 2007 (Introduced in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 0
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2007/05/24
Committee: Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
S. 1790 (IS) Communities of Color Teen Pregnancy Prevention Act of 2007 (Introduced in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 2
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2007/07/16
Committee: Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
S. CON. RES. 46 (IS) Whereas Sickle Cell Disease is an inherited blood disorder that is a major health problem in the United States, primarily affecting African Americans; (Introduced in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 0
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2007/09/17
Committee: Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
S. RES. 383 (IS) Honoring and recognizing the achievements of Carl Stokes, the first African-American mayor of a major American city, in the 40th year since his election as Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio. (Introduced in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 2
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2007/11/15
Committee: Senate Judiciary
S. RES. 600 (ATS) Whereas 44 years ago, on June 21, 1964, Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner were murdered in Philadelphia, Mississippi, while working in the name of American democracy... (Agreed to by Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 3
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2008/06/24
Committee:
S. CON. RES. 53 (IS) Expressing the sense of Congress that any effort to impose photo identification requirements for voting should be rejected. (Introduced in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 23
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2005/09/20
Committee: Senate Rules and Administration
S. CON. RES. 42 (IS) Recognizing the historical significance of Juneteenth Independence Day, and expressing the sense of Congress that history should be regarded as a means for understanding the past and... (Introduced in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 2
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2005/06/15
Committee: Senate Judiciary
S. AMDT. 1264 To support a United States contribution to the Special Court for Sierra Leone. WESTERN AFRICA
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 3
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2005/07/19
Committee:
S. 2125 (RS) Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act of 2005 (Reported in Senate)
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack
Cosponsors: 12
Chamber: Senate
Date: 2006/12/22
Committee: Senate Foreign Relations, House International Relations
October 5, 2008 8:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
And your point is............?
October 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would guess he's outraged because it's one of those "race-based" "reverse-discrimination" bills: it doesn't include apology to the former slave-owners for not paying them reparations for the loss of their property via abolition of slavery in violation of the "takings" clause.
October 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
ALL CAPS MEAN IMPORTANT FACTS ARE BEING DELIVERED!!!! BY A LOONY!!!!!!!!!!
October 5, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Got to love the asshooles of america hmmm. I have never been called a n-bomb to my face, probably because someone would be brutally damaged but subtly I can tell when someone is being condescending. It goes with the territory, some people are just to ignorant to think coherently.
October 5, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it counts unless they also add "dirty, commie, New York Jew." Probably they were driving by too fast to get it all in.
October 5, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Too true, Billy Glad. But she's a woman so you've got to add to the list: dirty, commie, New York Jew Lesbo.
October 5, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, as the repub base feels increasingly backed into a corner, this kind of thing could grow.
Thanks for your report. I think we all need to be prepared to "take it on the chin" with a smile.
October 5, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have for most of my life tried to figure out what was behind the black/white thing in this country. It just fascinates me. It's so huge, so entrenched, people who were not alive during slavery, or reconstruction, or even the civil rights wars, are still, up in arms.
I think part of it is white privilege, not wanting to give that up. And by "privilege" I mean things like applying for a job and being judged on your resume, going to a store and not being followed, seeing yourself represented on most major television shows. (complete list here: http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html)
I think another component is thinking that there must be a revenge gene in blacks. That if whites were mistreated in the same way blacks were, they would, when it was their turn to rule, turn the tables, and be as cruel, as unfair, as mean as they could be.
This doesn't seem to be the case with most blacks. There is an anger, but it's mostly just a "let me have my share", not "let me have it all" cry.
October 5, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really should put this up as a blog. I think the thrust of it is true, even if you don't take it as far as revenge.
To me, the most important thing Obama has ever said is that affirmative action should now be based on income. I don't understand why that simple proposition is not repeated over and over until people really get it.
October 5, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The argument against making affirmative action income based is that it was intended to address racial discrimination. To correct historic racially based inequality of opportunity.
Although income disparity is a first order consequence of racism, race based income disparity is relative. For example, a black senior manager will have a higher income than a white blue collar worker yet racism may still be limiting his career rise. He might be an executive if he weren't black.
Arguments that other ethnic groups have also been discriminated against miss the key distinction justifying a legal imposed remedy. Blacks are the only ethnic group whose discrimination was codified in to law, and enforced by the state.
However, directly targeting income disparity may be a more popular and possibly more effective position to take. It would defuses the divisive (though, I'd argue valid) racially based aspect of affirmative action programs. Since income disparity is a first order effect of racism, correcting such disparity through a politically more palatable non-race based program would still achieve most of the desired effect for blacks. At least for the disproportionately large percentage of blacks occupying the lower rungs of the success ladder.
Interestingly, a successful Obama presidency might do more to open minds and thereby opportunities for blacks at the executive level rungs of the success ladder.
October 5, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The argument against making affirmative action income based is that it was intended to address racial discrimination. To correct historic racially based inequality of opportunity."
I think you don't get it.
MOST US citizens on welfare are WHITE, and they are equally disadvanted, economically, as are blacks on welfare.
And I only use welfare as an example. Race has long been used in the US to divide the "inferior," and those who have acted on that message have been mostly poor, illiterate WHITES.
What matters to racists is race; what matters to all is the GREEN.
October 5, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you even read past the first paragraph? I won't say anything in rebuttal here, go back and either read or re-read my whole comment. Then give me your opinion.
October 5, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, new10, JN just handed you your head. How can you be so inflexible not to see that we're talking about a redefinition of Affirmative Action here? If you don't want to redefine it for some reason, say so and give your reason. If not, go back to your work and let the people who have had some brain food in their diet discuss this.
October 5, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
new10, what Obama is saying is that Affirmative Action has successfully addressed racial inequality. Now, it's time to shift its emphasis to poverty. Apparently, you don't agree. You don't think children from poor families should get preferential treatment on college admissions, for example, regardless of their race. I believe in his Philadelphia speech Obama signaled that he did.
October 5, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've never heard Obama say that Affirmative Action has effectively addressed racial discrimination. What I've heard him say is that racial discrimination still exists. I've also heard him say that for those Africans-Americans who do have some advantages, such as his daughters, then race should not be the only criteria to be considered. A notion, as I said above, that doesn't address the point that racial discrimination can (and does) exist at any income or career level.
Now, it's time to shift its emphasis to poverty. Apparently, you don't agree.
A typical Billy Glad assertion - one with no supporting evidence.
You don't think children from poor families should get preferential treatment on college admissions, for example, regardless of their race.
Straw-man arguments, Billy? That issue has nothing to do with Affirmative-Action, which is intended to remedy the real wealth disparity which exists due to historical and systemic racial discrimination.
Speaking as a one-time college professor, my opinion on education is that ANYONE who can maintain some minimum grade should be able to attend state or community college classes for free. If they can't maintain the required grade then they pay for that class. That's what I think about that.
October 5, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's all in the Philadelphia speech. I could be wrong. Read it for yourself. But why so angry? I thought I paid Obama a compliment. Guess you're one of the workers they don't let have any brain food. Makes you a good fighter, but not much of a thinker. Unless you oppose basing Affirmative Action on income. Why is that?
October 5, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
But why so angry?...Guess you're one of the workers they don't let have any brain food. Makes you a good fighter, but not much of a thinker.
What, more unsupported assertions, Billy? I don't see any exclamation points, and the only caps I used was emphasize, "anyone". Time for you to put down the shovel, stop digging, and climb out.
October 5, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you even hear or read Obama's Philadelphia speech? Do you know what his position on AA is? You're not angry unless you shout? Amusing. I wish someone would give you a jelly snack so we could actually discuss this.
October 5, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
new10, here you go. Some brain food for you.
http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2008/05/12/kahlenberg
From outside the Hive, though, so don't get caught eating it.
October 5, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're certainly determined to vainly flail about tonight aren't you, Billy? Perhaps, it is you who should read the following two excerpts from the article you linked.
...in Philadelphia with Hillary Clinton, he said in response to a question that his own privileged daughters do not deserve affirmative action preferences.....
...(in) his well received speech on race in Philadelphia back in March. In the address, Obama made clear that this nation needs some form of affirmative action to address the legacy of discrimination in America.
Which are exactly what I had indicated.
Resentment builds, Obama said, “when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed.” These resentments, he said are not “misguided or even racist,” but rather are “grounded in legitimate concerns.”
Class-based affirmative action reconciles both points of view. It avoids the explicit use of race that working-class whites resent, moving us beyond the “racial stalemate”
Which is why I wrote: "However, directly targeting income disparity may be a more popular and possibly more effective position to take. It would defuses the divisive (though, I'd argue valid) racially based aspect of affirmative action programs. Since income disparity is a first order effect of racism, correcting such disparity through a politically more palatable non-race based program would still achieve most of the desired effect for blacks."
October 5, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then what are you arguing about? Are you just eating bandwidth? Why are you arguing with me if you agree that Obama supports AA based on income? Does that make sense?
October 5, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I quote you:
To me, the most important thing Obama has ever said is that affirmative action should now be based on income. I don't understand why that simple proposition is not repeated over and over until people really get it.
All I did was provide you the argument against making Affirmative Action income based. You decided to turn things in to a bit of a pissing contest from there.
October 5, 2008 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really?
"A typical Billy Glad assertion - one with no supporting evidence."
That's the start of the pissing contest, Professor. Now live it out. I'm not interested in whether you think it's a good idea, I'm interested in what Obama thinks. One thing I'm sure he doesn't think is that the goals of Affirmative Action can't be expanded to redress systemic poverty caused by something other than racial discrimination. He might not agree with me, but I'm confident he'd snap to what I'm talking about. And the fact that you at one time were a college professor somewhere signifies what? They used to give you brain food and now they don't? Tough. Try the garbage cans.
October 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, student, what you are going to get here is what we think (which obviously includes me), as I'm quite certain Obama won't be contacting you.
However, for the record, Billy, I'll grant you that it would have been better if I hadn't added that jab about your past assertions.
October 6, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Must have been slim pickings in the Hive garbage cans.
What's relevant is what you think Obama's position on expanding AA is, not what your position on expanding it is. Following that, your thoughts on his position might be of interest. Just a little hint about staying on topic. If you are going to butt in, at least try to butt in on topic. And thank you for the compliment. I'd actually settle for that one on my tombstone.
October 6, 2008 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
First off, I didn't complement you, secondly, I'll butt in to any comment (especially, yours) as I damn well please. Be it directly, obliquely, or orthogonally.
October 6, 2008 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's that white priv. list if you're interested.:
http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
October 5, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm interested, but disappointed in the list. My personal experience has not been that bad. I've lived in diverse communities and worked in diverse workplaces. I wonder if there is a similar list for women.
And I wonder if Obama might not point out that most of the things on that list apply to poor people, regardless of race.
October 5, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I noticed that most of them would also apply to women.
October 5, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a white person who spent the first half of my life living in the South I can tell you exactly why white people hate black people.
The South has: The worse school system in the country, the lowest paid jobs, the highest rates of domestic violence and sexual incest. A religion that pits ever "Us" against all the other "Godless Thems", A non-existant culture based on an illusion of past glories and a war that they lost.
When you believe, true or not, that you are, rightly, on the bottom of the social pile then you need to find someone to feel that you are better than.
For years the blacks served that role. But as blacks began to rise up and compete for education and jobs whites began to find they were not able to just "Naturality" win. The whites will never forgive the blacks for proving that the accident of "Birth" does not impart any "Superity".
October 5, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know. And that's what makes the idea of an Affirmative Action program based on income such a revolutionary idea.
And we have to look beyond the fact that this generation of poor white people will resent this kind of help from a black man.
It's an initiative that could make the war on poverty real again.
October 5, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jacob Freeze you are a blabbering idiot, why don't you say something of substance instead of ranting and raving....oh. wait, that sounds vaguely familiar. Oh I've got it, you sound just like McPain (who, may I remind you, voted for the bailout, too). What exactly is your point?? I've got a point for you...Ignorant people say incredibly ignorant things, that's what those boys did. Period.
October 5, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, he probably sounds more like Nader. His point seems to be that Obama won't make a good President. If you can find some comment he's made that indicates he thinks McCain isn't equally disastrous, please link to it. I think he needs a really angry avatar to ratchet up the anger a bit. Too bad the I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore has been grabbed by the Aussie.
October 5, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
JF needs to roll a big one and take a few weeks off. His cheap superiority is tiresome.
But what's with the ALL-CAPS wackos above?
October 5, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's spam. A wall post.
October 5, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, Tom, I think the origin of Jacob's anger is something worth trying to understand.
October 5, 2008 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
How would anyone hoe to do that with the concrete wall of insults he has build around himself? This is no job for amateurs -- Jacob needs years of inpatient therapy including EST and everything else. Even with that his level of hatred is so deep it would take major surgery to even find it, never mind remove it.
I know you like each other; that is good for him at least. I wouldn't advise you to offer to be a "big brother" however; sometimes there are consequences.
October 5, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
When anti-war sentiment turned the Congress over to the Democratic Party, weren't you disappointed and angry that the Congress didn't end the war, CV?
October 5, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll try after he apologizes for calling certain people certain really insulting names. Until then he is just a troll.
October 5, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had a similar experience handing out flyers for an Obama fundraiser I was organizing here in Boston. I was at a supermarket and the very first woman who I approached leaned over, squinted at my flyer and practically shouted, "What! I ain't votin' for nu f***in' n*****!"
,br>
It needs to be said that she was the ONLY person who acted in that fashion, and she very much struck me as a throwback to a different era in Boston that, thank God, I am sure is passed.
,br>On a brighter note, I had an opposite experience. I stopped into a black beauty salon. It was a large room and three walls were lined with women under hair dryers. I'm white and I got a lot of curious stares until the proprietor, who was applying stuff to a client's hair, called me over to ask what I wanted. When I told her I was looking to leave flyers for an Obama fundraiser at the customer desk, she said, "Obama! Give one to everybody here. Start there," and pointed to the customer I should start with. I did as I was told and walked out of there feeling good.
October 5, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live on the outskirts of Wahington, D.C. - in Maryland, in Prince Georges County - my neighborhood is predominitly black and a few older whites that didn't take flight - I've had a few southern MD red-neck boys scream obscenities at me, but surprisingly they were about my Prius, not my Obama bumper sticker! I'm not sure they can read...
But one of the really great things that has happened (I'm a 51 year old white female) when I wear my Obama t-shirts out & about I've had checkers reopen the line for me at the grocery, guards walk me to my car after dark, and people just acting down right happier and friendlier to see a white woman wearing an Obama shirt!!
I had one young girl come up to me and ask "No Sarah Palin for you?" and I had to laugh as I told her that "we needed to send that redneck back up north where she belongs!"
She started clapping.
There is an automatic assumption in my neighborhood that all the white people will vote for McCain, and they could be right - most are military retirees in their 70's & 80's. So far I am the ONLY one I've seen with a bumper sticker and a yard sign for any candidate.
October 5, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm surprised that so many liberals are so proud to be running into racism as they show their support for Obama. It smacks of smug self-satisfaction that is undeserved in my opinion. The teenage boys, of course, are not the problem but the millions of white adults who still cling to racism even if it means they vote against their own self interest sre the problem. I sense that many liberals think that the mere act of electing a mixed race President is going to solve something when that is obviously not the case. In fact, it won't solve anything. Electing a nonwhite man for the first time is an historic first, but in and of itself that is all it is. It portends and foreshadows nothing else on it's own.
I pray that Obama is elected, not because I think he's all that great (to me he's just another corporate/centrist Democrat) but because the alternative is so horrendous and fraught with danger for the country. It will be a milestone if we manage to elect Obama, but what it will not be is any kind of watershed election such as 1932 was and more's the pity too. Obama's foolish and very naive rejection of partisanship this year will mean that if he squeaks by or even if he lucks out and the economy gives him a more comfotable margin of victory he will not have a mandate for much beyond somehow, in some unspecified way, bringing us all together so we can work with the Republicans on "bipartisan" solutions to our proglems. The only problem with Obama's fantasy scenario is that the Republicans have no intention of doing anything like that. Their understanding of "bipartisan" is for Democrats to agree to their agenda and that ain't gonna happen and shouldn't.
There is still some time for Obama to actually make this election a route of the Republican Party and a total repudiation and rejection of all they stand for, but the chance of Obama allowing his campaign to do that are slim indeed. Just when we have the opportunity to really rack up a big majority and start passing the sort of mainstream liberal legislation we have all hoped for over the past 30 years, Obama, instead of ushering in those things will be standing in the way demanding "compromise" and concessions in the name of "bipartisanship" that will retard the progress of our party and our people.
His support for the flimflam "bailout" bill demonstratres clearer than anything else how much a real part of the Washington crowd Obama has already become. It's really a shame. If only he were the progressive so many liberals who supported him have believed him to be it would be fine, but they've been fooling themselves into thinking that because of who he is, he'll actually be more liberal than he's been saying he will be. The joke's on them, only it isn't going to be funny considering the desperate times that we'll be in over the next four years. Obama is far more likely to be a Jimmy Carter type of President than an FDR which means he'll adopt lots of responsible positions that he won't be able to pass into law, frustration will grow and the moment they can, the Republicans will use that frustration to return to power and continue their corrupt, malevolent regime.
October 5, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The correct face-to-face response to this is, "No, I am just a Paycheck Lover, sorry to have bothered you." You will not convince people to change their position on race in the next month, but you may be able to get a few to ignore their feelings for economic reasons.
October 5, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
If I were to assume you had arrived my first question would be: what took you so long to get here?
As admirable as it might seem to have aroused the anger of the intolerant by theoretically taking a stand on principle against bigotry that is not imo the point at which one arrives. If what you had done was take a stand on principle that would be only a sign post on the journey.
Have you ever been in a group and heard a racially insensitive comment or joke and did you smile or laugh or simply remain silent? Or did you speak up and get insulted? That would be a sign post on the journey. What will you do the next time it happens?
Have you ever heard a homophobic comment or joke and did you smile or laugh or simply remain silent? Or did you speak up and get called a lesbo? That would be a sign post on the journey. What will you do the next time it happens?
have you ever heard a misogynistic comment or joke and did you smile or laugh or simply remain silent? or did you speak up and get called a bitch or feminazi or even a cunt? That would be a sign post on the road. what will you do the next time it happens?
You may have often taken a stand on principle or you may have laughed at those jokes. I don't know. All I know is you put a sign on your lawn and you are supporting Obama. That may be a good decision, it may be a wise thing to do, it may be the best thing for this country. But it is not taking a stand on principle against intolerance and prejudice.
You may be on the fore front of the fight against bigotry, homophobia and misogyny in your community. Conversely you could have never spoken up in the face of mysogyny, homophobia, or bigotry and sanctioned it by your silence and still have been called n-lover when you put up your sign.
There's simply not enough information where you are on the journey or if you've even begun. That you were called n-lover for putting up a sign tells me nothing about your personal journey, only about the personal journey of those who called you that name.
October 5, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nicholas Kristof piece in the Sunday New York Times deals with this subject matter.
October 5, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very interesting. How would you apply it specifically to this election? Don't Obama and McCain offer stark contrasts? It's hard for me to imagine the choice being close enough in anyone's mind that some subconscious factor could make much of a difference.
October 5, 2008 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
The question isn't about contrast per se but how one chooses to highlight and lowball those contrast.
October 5, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
So how would you apply the research to this election? :) Did you think you were dealing with Gwen Eifel here?
October 5, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
It wasn't Gwen Ifill's job to vet McCain's running mate.
It was Palin who said she wasn't going answer the questions the way Ifill asked or wanted them answered. Palin was busy, too busy being darn-gosh folksy.
See Palin's remarks about putting the government on the side of "Joe Six Pack." She certainly isn't talking to or about Jose or Jacques Six Pack. For whom is her message intended?
October 6, 2008 1:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
So how would you apply that research to this election? Don't think I heard your answer.
October 6, 2008 7:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I listen to interview after interview, I hear people say that the are registered Democrats but they can't just bring themselves to vote for a black man. That's cool they are being honest. But we don't know how many registered Democrats say they will vote for Obama and actually go in the booth and do otherwise. We have to wait until the i's are dotted, t's crossed and votes counted to see what impact McCain/Palin's specific appeal to that part of the American psyche.
Two examples of some voters telling pollsters they would vote one way and they actually vote the other include Doug Wilder of Governor of Virginia and Tom Bradley, former Mayor of Los Angeles who ran for governor of California.
October 6, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain not only voted for the bailout. He suspended his campange,(wink wink) to come back to Washington to strong arm his fellow republicans to vote for it.
And if you believe race is not an issue in this country and this election you have been living with your head up your ass for way too long.
October 5, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Libgirl, you have arrived and I hope you will explain it to your 6 year old daughter too! I was about her age, when I arrived, during pre-civil rights era, when my parents had to explain why people always seemed to be staring at us, when we would enter a resturant. Perhaps understandable in the deep south, but I'm talking California. Here's a link to one of the best statements I've seen lately, on this subject!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/union-president-defends-o_n_131954.html
October 5, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, the suburban or exurban white teenager version of the drive-by -- drive fast and shout stuff that you know has cultural resonance without knowing why.
October 5, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, you have arrived.
It's also a clear sign that the fearful racists, are retreating, (no more, 'reduce taxes & regulation' to use as an invisiblity cloak).
Racism is just a fear response - because their upbringing lacked any kind of 'real world' education', most of 'real life' is scary to them, they are looking to blame anyone but themselves for it. Some days I wonder how people like this can manage to feed and clean themselves with any regularity - let alone balance a checkbook or raise a child.
If they were indeed teenagers, then I'm relieved they might not be old enough to vote - and might have to find a job in the next 4 years before the next presidential election. I came of age during the Clinton years and am thankful for it - I never spent more than a week unemployed since then.
I'm in Wasilla, Alaska - notably the pot & meth capital of the state, it's also very conspicuously the bible belt of Alaska. My husband and I also spent about a year in Oregon and found it very stepford-like in their lack of diversity overall, creepy in fact, (and we're white).
(I often joke as to why I don't know or socialize with many here in Wasilla that 'our only choices are either meth addicts or Jesus freaks').
I'm still trying to explain to my two boys (ages 7 & 8) every year why I won't let them join the Boy Scouts. In fact, I had to readdress the issue again today - my youngest said not everyone in the Boy Scouts hate other people, (namely gays and atheists). I had to explain to him that joining a group that hates, (i.e. discriminates) tells other people that it's okay. Basically we won't let them join because as their parents (and atheists) we wouldn't be welcome to participate in Boy Scout activities and family always comes first. Also that they have a moral duty to choose inclusion over exclusion, acceptance over hate - every time, without exception.
October 5, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Post a Comment