« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »
Biden's tears
Something else happened in this debate that we're still analysing within the campaign. First of all we're moving on to the final 35 days. But there were tears that melted people and those tears that Biden cried on that day clearly moved voters. He somehow connected with those voters. but those tears have to be analysed. They have to be looked at very very carefully in light of Katrina in light of other things that Biden didn't cry for particularly as we move to these final days. We saw something very clever in this campaign. We saw a sensitivity factor something that Biden has not been able to do with voters that he tried in the debate. Not in response to Katrina not in response to other issues that have devastated the American people, the war in Iraq. We saw tears in response to his appearance. So his appearance brought him to tears but not hurricane Katrina, not other issues.
Are you suggesting it was a little bit affected, his tears, that it was staged?
I wouldn't say that, but I am saying that there are a lot of issue that we can be emotion about in this campaign. And I'm super sensitive to that. There are people without jobs, we're approaching a recession, the sup prime market is collapsing and people are losing their homes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNrlSn7ndAA&eurl=http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/01/09/jackson/index.html
Comments (28)
Maybe it was staged...but what I noticed even more than the tears was Palin's RESPONSE after the tears.
If you're wondering what I mean, keep wondering. There really wasn't a response. No "that's very touching" or "I'm sure that car accident hurt you". Not saying that Palin's a cold person. Well, maybe she is. But I think she was so hell-bent on memorizing what's been fed to her over the past few days that she didn't know what was going on.
With Palin's response aside, I think that resonated with people. Maybe some McCain supporters came to their senses and truly realized what his election to the presidency means. Biden always gets emotional when the subject is brought up, but it shows to others that even though he's and old, liberal windbag that talks too much a lot of times, he's not a cyborg and he does have feelings.
October 3, 2008 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
but what I noticed even more than the tears was Palin's RESPONSE after the tears.
---------------------------------------------------
There I have to agree with you. The last time a candidate's tears became an issue it wasn't the tears I noticed but the slimy response of Jesse Jackson Jr. and the nasty piling on by most of the people here.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/01/09/jackson/index.html
October 3, 2008 2:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
He was responding to Palin's "I'm a Mom default" in way to express that women aren't the only ones who know anything about being a single parent. I could see his thoughts as if they were my own personal experience. (They are not.) His thoughts, while speaking were on his wife and daughter who died and his two sons who were in critical condition after that horrible automobile accident shortly after winning his seat in the Senate.
I believe that was very real for him. Biden's nature is not cynical.
On the other hand, and I don't hold this against Palin very much but, I did notice that she didn't so much as even pause to recognize his real pain in her rush to get through her study list without forgetting to regurgitate some talking point.
October 3, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
We have the irony that with all the talk of "sexism" in this campaign season, that men have been forgotten (as usual) for being good parents, and having empathy as well.
Our October surprise is that the *man* had the tearful moment!
I don't think it will be quite as analyzed as Hillary's tears because Biden was building to that moment in his brain -- there was no pause, except to ensure composure.
October 3, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
And he didn't say "Cucumber". How could it be a problem if he didn't say "Cucumber"?
October 3, 2008 6:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
>>>We saw tears in response to his appearance. So his appearance brought him to tears but not hurricane Katrina, not other issues.
What in the world are you talking about? "His appearance"??? His tears, which he quickly mastered without any maudlin "It's so hard," were for his wife and daughter who died and his son who almost died ....... and who is leaving TOMORROW for duty in Iraq - another time when he won't know if his child will "make it."
You know, politicians -- even 35 year politicians -- are people too, are parents who love their children. I doubt there are many people who saw him speak at that moment who didn't realize that it was genuine and utterly unplanned.
October 3, 2008 1:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt there are many people who saw him speak at that moment who didn't realize that it was genuine and utterly unplanned.
--------------------------------------------------
Oh I don't know. I think both Jesse Jackson Jr., Obama, and most of the people here would agree that a candidates tears have to be analysed very very closely in light of all the things a candidate didn't cry for. Well, at least that's what people thought a few months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNrlSn7ndAA
October 3, 2008 2:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
oceankat,
i can't read the whole link you suggest going to. it get's cut off on my monitor. are you quoting a conversation you saw on some post debate show or read somewhere? i'd love to know more about what you've contributed here.
October 3, 2008 1:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/01/09/jackson/index.html
October 3, 2008 2:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
When Hillary cried -- she prolonged it, sighed and said how hard it was (all of which I bought as genuine and probably born of exhaustion) and then she sequed *immediately* into a knife-between-the-ribs comment: "and some of us know how to save this country and some of us don't". Can you wonder that there were doubts? Do those doubts make any other show of emotion, by anyone, suspect? I'm sorry you are so cynical.
October 3, 2008 2:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
And for the record, Obama said *nothing* - not a thing - about Hillary's tears. Jesse Jackson, Jr. was out of line and was promptly told to cut it out by the Obama campaign. Let it go.
October 3, 2008 2:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jesse Jackson Jr. is the co-chairman of Obama's campaign. I don't believe for a moment he went rogue. Obama's attack style has always been passive aggressive in nature. Just as he sent out Axerod to gin up the controversy surrounding the Ferraro comment. High level surrogates attached to the campaign on staff who are involved in the all the major planning don't go rogue.
And I'll let it go when Obama apologizes for what I see as the most slimy campaign tactic in the primary. Its my touchstone for who Obama is deep down and how low he's willing to go to win.
October 3, 2008 2:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think we have two totally different scenarios. The death of a wife and child being compared to working hard on the campaign trail and not getting a payoff??? Are you kidding me? I like Hillary but I thought the tears should have been saved for the shower--it was too emotional for the circumstances. With Biden...you NEVER get over the death of a child, it's not natural. I choke up thinking about the possibility. No, he didn't have to mention his loss but Palin was playing the there's-nothing-like-a-mother's-love-card and he equalized it--it will play well for him but I do not think he planned to tear up.
And in regards to Katrina, many people teared up watching the frustration of the victims on television but those emotions are easier to control--if you're not literally related to the person it's easier to control your emotions. We can still feel empathy. It's a silly argument when you really don't know how he responded. I'd make a bet that he did break down because he appears to be a compassionate person to me.
October 3, 2008 6:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
You leave out sheer exhaustion and a lot more pressure going into New Hampshire. Never has the welling up (no tears actually cried) been examined so closely. Too weak to be pres, too manipulative, too something.
October 3, 2008 6:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
October 3, 2008 6:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well there you have it. Edwards didn't cry and his son died as well. That's why "these tears need to be looked at very very closely." Perhaps this is why Edwards lost, just not "clever" enough to try tears. Biden is smarter. "We saw something very clever in this campaign."
October 3, 2008 7:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just answering honestly here because I figure we all have our breaking point. I have broke down from exhaustion and frustration at work but I went to the bathroom to do it. I have cried openly in public about the death of a child.
I consider myself able to be stoic when I need to be--to save face. Some people cannot. I don't care if Hillary teared up. Some people DO care and are ready to pounce on her for it--know your enemy, right? I would not have teared up in public if I were her and if I felt I was going to I would have excused myself collected myself in private.
Analyze away at Biden's tears...it wasn't the first time he's succumbed to his emotions and it won't be the last.
October 3, 2008 7:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
BTW: does anyone know why my pic keeps switching back and forth from an old one to a new one???
October 3, 2008 7:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's a silly argument when you really don't know how he responded.
----------------------------------------------------
That's why his tears need to be looked at "very very closely in light of Katrina." We didn't know how Hillary responded to Katrina either. But almost everyone here agreed with Jackson that, "those tears have to be analyzed." I feel certain that those same people will want to analyze Biden's tears as well.
It was an important issue with several posts up on the rec list. People here obviously care when a candidate cries and they want to know if he cried for Katrina.
Like Jackson, most of the people here are "super sensitive" to that, or at least they were. I can't see any reason why that super sensitivity would have changed.
Like Obama's co-chairman said there are, "other issues that have devastated the American people, the war in Iraq." Do you think he cried when he voted for the war in Iraq? Or maybe not until 2 or 3 thousand Americans had died? When do you think it would have been most "clever" for him to "try" to cry?
These are the type of important questions we were told they were "analyzing within the Obama campaign" and the type of important questions we found so necessary to discuss then and I'm sure people will want to discuss now.
October 3, 2008 7:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't you think people were just waiting for Hillary to tear up or cry???? It was her opposition's job to play the gender card in that sense...she was the first woman who may take on a traditionally man's job...do I agree with it? NO! That said, I would have been damned if I were to give someone amunition against me. You've done it before in your life haven't you? Fighting back the urge to break down to prevent the other person from attacking you.
October 3, 2008 8:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think there's a Hillary supporter out there that didn't see the double standard. Boys can cry and then Rachel Maddow calls Palin's response "inhuman" for not being more empathetic to Biden's moment. You just can't make this stuff up.
October 3, 2008 7:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I saw that as well. Fortunately Jesse Jackson Jr. had a much more human response to Hillary's brief emotional moment. Palin could learn a lot about empathy by reading the many comments here about Hillary's tears.
October 3, 2008 7:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
goceankat:
There were double standards in the primaries, and here at the Cafe, where you have written an excellent post, the double standard is the source of all things given. You have my recommendation.
Biden's tears are irrelevant because he is a man. But you will never get that concession here. Check out the response of Hillary Hater (caps on purpose) Elizabeth2 above, who explains the distinction between Biden's tears and Hillary's tears. You cannot make this stuff up . The next thing we will read is a positive assessment of the racist trash spewed forth by Jesse Jackson Jr. about Hillary's tears. Oh wait, I think someone covered that upthread already lol. Ah yes, it was Hillary Hater (caps on purpose) Elizabeth 2, claiming that Jesse was told to be nice, and therefore we should let his racist tirade against Senator Clinton go. You really can't wait this stuff up.
Oceankat, keep writing truth and worry not about recommendations. Some of us will continue to recognize excellence, even when the poster does not stay between the lines.
Bruce
October 3, 2008 8:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Almost no rec's. I'm really surprised. I thought surely this would rocket to the top of the list like all those posts about Hillary's tears did. Don't these "tears have to be analysed." Don't "They have to be looked at very very carefully in light of Katrina" I'm really confused now. "We saw something very clever in this campaign." Isn't this the type of thing you all think is important to discuss in several threads? I mean, you used to.
October 3, 2008 7:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're silly.
October 3, 2008 8:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's always silly season at TPM.
October 3, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is nothing more painful than losing a child and a spouse. He was recalling that on the eve of his son shipping off to Iraq. Give the guy a break.
October 4, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm on my third margarita and still can't figure out this post. Is there a primary going on?
October 4, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Post a Comment