Early in the debate it seemed like Palin was involved in a different debate altogether. She started paying attention somewhere around the gay marriage question, which she stumbled through like a blind man in a room full of ottomons. After that it was just disproven McCain talking points, lies about her own record, and repeated irrelevant references to her home state. I can't see this as a positive for her.

In terms of performance, they both did remarkably well, though one could argue Biden trumped her. In terms of what voters will take home from this, Palin won hands down. Palin showed confidence in nearly every question asked of her, contradicting most expectations of her.

Even so, I do not forsee many independents changing their minds about their vote solely because of this debate (says the Prophet).

I actually agree with you 100%, and was thinking as much while watching the debate. In the end, Palin still didn't prove to be as knowledgeable or qualified as Biden, and though she may have assayed some peoples' fears about her, Biden only reinforced his positives, and as such, increased the positives for the Democratic ticket. In the end, I don't think that Palin was very persuasive, and really, that's what she needed to be most of all. This is such a critical time. Make it or break it. Palin might not have broken it... But she didn't do much to make it, either.

This is it. From here on out, it's Obama v. McCain.

Agreed. The Palin obsession, both for and against, is over.

Did you guys notice how many times she winked at me? I was blushing a bit.

I disagree -

I think that Palin helped herself, but keep a few things in mind:

- A lot of people didn't watch the debate.
- A huge proportion of people who did watch saw no evidence to convince them that she's qualified
- A lot of the initial narrative is that Biden won the debate

If you're relatively apolitical, she didn't do enough here to have the national narrative change from "look at this dummy" to "she'd be a wonderful VP". The Couric interviews and SNL are still out there.

She'll diminish in importance, but I believe that she's still a net negative for the McCain campaign. It's not yet enough to stop the mockery.

Check out the Palin Winks video on youtube. She actually winks at the audience as a kind of gesture. Crrreeepyyy.

I did not notice this during the debate at all, it went right over my head. My wife noticed every single one. What's up with that?

Well, i'd want her around for moose-dressin', but, as for the rest? Not so much...

I mean , just by reading a few comments here and there, and everywhere, there is a striking difference between the journalists who don't want to take "unappropriate risks" expressing themselves, and the vast majority of comments who vastly approve of Biden as the definite winner of this night's debate.

Even some Reps, in their comments, recognize that he's been more than decent. My bet is that Biden will have puzzled some moderate reps, shaking their classic beliefs. The maverick lost his magic mantle.

I haven't yet found a single comment who said that Palin has been brilliant tonite. Everyone is talking about how OK she fared regarding "low expectations", "folksy" tunes and so on... Va bene.. but what the hell... I admit she was less bad than with Couric... so what? Is that a "win"???

Where's the Sarah Palin McCain and his advisors said would bite when unleashed? She did seem on her own... alone.

Biden technically won the debate, but Palin won in that she redeemed herself. She'll probably pull back the shaky McCain supporters who were heading for jumping off the precipice because of the Couric debacles. Palin came across as more credible than Quayle. The folksy stuff works my nerves, but hey 19% of Americans voted for freaking Ross Perot who was a borderline nutjob. Worst line of the debate was "Say it ain't so Joe!" It just sounded so rehearsed.

Biden won. Does it matter?

Yes, it does, because regardless of Palin's performance, the pre-debate expectations for Biden were overshadowed by the discussion over Palin's, allowing Biden to unexpectedly just show up and brilliantly connect with the voters. He was completely likable, and he managed to emphasize his average Joe and single father credentials, boasted his impressive competence, and effectively attacked McCain's maverick image, all while remaining a gentleman with Sarah, even abstaining from correcting an obvious gaffe.

On the other hand, although Palin redeemed herself somewhat from the disastrous Couric interviews, she still was not able to live up to the attacking hockeymom persona from the convention who promised to zing and bully the Democratic ticketholders into ridicule. It was not the Sarah Palin which gave McCain his huge convention bounce. The much promised pitbull with lipstick was nowhere to be seen or was in recoil in the confrontation with a tiger.

"From what I gathered from CNN's live dial polling, women liked Biden, and men liked Palin."

I noticed that as well, but I also had to keep in mind that men (especially white men) are more inclined to be Repubs anyway and more like to respond to the talking points she was throwing around anyway.

Note: I am a white man, but barely!

I was struck by the Reagan channeling. First was "There you go again..."; then there was "Paying taxes isn't patriotic...sometimes government is the problem..."; and finally there was that ol' "City on the hill..."

I basically agree with you, hrebendorf, minus the CNN spin.

Palin did exactly what she was supposed to do last night. She has delivered twice now. As you say, From here on out, it's Obama v. McCain.

It's up to McCain to clinch the election (which remains doubtful), but she'll draw huge crowds for him. In that way he benefits from her performance last night.

And I guess it must be said that as much as I despise her, I do give her props for going through with it all. Ignorance is bliss, and she needed every ounce of it to get up on that stage.

Anyone with any more brains would've been pissing themselves at the prospect.

Am I the only one who thought last night was a disgrace?

After 8 years of George Bush, I honest-to-God did not think we, as a country, could set the bar any lower. I am completely and utterly mystified to find that I have been proven wrong.

IMO this debate changed nothing. She didn't have a melt down, but Palin didn't even get a ground-rule double let alone hit it out of the park. Palin was ALWAYS going to attract thousands of curious onlookers when she has an event. That probably won't change - and would not have regardless of her debate performance.

But nothing Palin did erased the common perception of her - and several things (the winks, shout-outs, giving obviously prepared mini-speeches that didn't match the questions, etc.) reinforced the commonly accepted narrative. She needed to shift momentum - have a game changer. Even with the unqualified-debater format, Palin's performance was well below average.

I don't see this moving many votes or even polls in McCain's direction much. I don't think we are going to see morale increase in GOP circles.

IMO, McCain is toast. They can't even rely on vote manipulation because Ohio and Florida aren't necessarily critical - why take that risk? We've still got to play out the moves, but in the current situation I can't see how the GOP avoids checkmate.

The thing that struck me was how generalist the questions from Gwen were. I think many people, only moderately informed, could have stood up there and made passable replies.

The high school civics level of the questions helped Palin as it didn't push her to display any knowledge or the type of systems thinking so second-nature to the public policy commmunity.

I wish Gwen had asked something like this:

"In the light of the current economic crisis do you think the Federal Reserve should become the lender of last resort or should the government with the aid of the central banks attempt to re-capitalize the banking system on a selective basis? And what do you think of the relaxation of the FAS 157 fair value accounting standard in the SEC's mark-to-market standard...is this a good idea?"

Biden would have jumped all over that question. I think Palin, unless she had an earphone, would have been at a loss.

The debate, in short, was rigged to the lowest common denominator.

But is that what we want in someone who might become President?

Everyone on television is only talking about Palin today. Joe rocked and was tremendously endearing. He came off as more likable than she did. She had to concentrate too hard on her talking points to be at ease and really work her charm past some lines and winks. One of my friends I watched with wasn't familiar with Biden. She is a recovering Republican turned Independent and her views tend to be to the right of mine. She just kept saying "Oh, I like Joe.... I really like Joe.... He seems like a great guy.... I really like him..... He'd make a great President.

She tends to be a barometer for me since I live in a bit of a liberal bubble. I was very pleased by how taken she was with him.