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Why do I read Talking Points Memo?
I have read TPM for a long time now. I can't say I was around when Josh first opened the doors, but I have been reading it at least since 2003. So, that's five years. I signed up for an account with TPM Cafe the day it opened. Now I am forced to question why I spend so much time reading this blog.
More and more, it just seems like TPM provides space for a bunch of self-important wankers. Not just on the front but in the reader posts. Yes, I realize that I am one of those self-important wankers, but at least I realize it and I am trying to do something about it. Yes, I realize that my criticisms can be applied to the vast majority of blogs, but that is kind of the point.
So, what has set me off today? Specifically, this post on the front by Josh, and this post at Open Left by Matt Stoller. In the first, Josh restates the patently, blatently, bloody fucking obvious. In the second, Stoller admits that blogs are powerless to produce any real effect in politics.
What has this blog ever accomplished? The best thing TPM has done was 2005's agitprop about Social Security privatization, and I don't mean 'agitprop' as a perjorative. It was great. Josh got a ton of people involved, helped to establish a counter narrative, and played at least some role in the privatization movement grinding to a halt.
And since then TPM has produced almost nothing of utility. Sure, it's nice to get a few videos now and then, but they aren't doing us any good. The audience isn't large enough, and they tend to infect only certain populations. That is to say, TPM's videos don't end up hitting a wide audience and are only infectious among left leaning political junkies.
Left leaning political junkies, though, are the choir. It seems TPM has chosen to spend its resources in preaching to them.
Josh has also stated quite often in the past that he believes there are different kinds of blogs, and he conceives of TPM as being more journalistic than activist. So, I am forced to ask: WHO NEEDS ANOTHER FUCKING JOURNALIST?
I'm sorry folks, but the mainstream media isn't dying. It's still going to be where most people get their news, whether it's CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, or the nightly broadcasts. I see plenty of people everyday reading newspapers. Sure, newspaper circulation is in decline, but people are still going to read them, especially local papers outside of the east coast metropolitan corridor.
Blogs are not going to replace the mainstream media and they aren't going to become mainstream media. They are and will remain fringe media. Moreover, there is no evidence that left leaning sites like TPM have any ability to drive MSM coverage of issues. Drudge still has the MSM in his pocket, but lefties only get coverage when they create new mechanisms for involvement, (like Chris Bower's googlebomb).
I can't help but wonder . . . There is a common thought among lefties that goes like this: We have access to better informaiton, and if only we could effectively communicate that information to other people, the scales would fall from their eyes, and everyone would be more liberal. But that's just a conceit. It ain't happening folks, and reporting isn't going to make it happen. The fact that Josh took 5 minutes to restate the fact that a McCain administration will be worse than the Bush administration isn't going to change anyone's mind. It's useless and masturbatory.
And that's the conclusion I am coming to about this site in general.
Comments (33)
Masturbatory - is that the place where scientists study really horny folks?
September 8, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's the circle jerk inside the Conservatory..
September 8, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
What do you propose TPM, and we, the lunatic fringe, do about it?
September 8, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I never called anyone a lunatic, merely fringe. In fact, I have often had people here attack me for being too liberal, even though I'm really pretty moderate.
Blogs are fringe media because they attract a very small audience in the media universe. Josh just mentioned the other day that TPM normally gets 500k - 600k page views per day. First remember that page views are not unique viewers but include individuals who repeatedly reload the page, and then compare that to the millions of unique viewers that CNN and FOX get every night. Blogs are also fringe media insofar as persons in positions of power do no pay attention to them and do not feel accountable to them.
However, if the aphoristic definition of "crazy" is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results, then there is a case for bloggers as lunatics.
September 8, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was being self deprecating, as I am a proud fringe member, and definitely a lunatic. I am serious about your ideas for fixing this busted up old joint up though...
September 8, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
A couple things. I would like the see Josh and others direct a media campaign involving the community. I really do respect what they did in 2005 with social security. If they care at all about this election, it is time to do it again. The reporting is nice, but I can get all the information they report elsewhere. I don't have any great ideas, but they now need to be active and not reactive. Look, even Glenn Greenwald occasionally posts contact information for Senators, Representatives, and media organizations in order to get people to express their opinions directly to people who can make a difference. Greenwald also helps to direct political donations to activist organizations.
Something like that would be a step in the right direction.
Second, and this is just a little personal quibble: I would like to see them allow comments for posts on the main page.
September 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've never cared for the aphoristic definition of crazy--it makes crazy sound like a BAD thing
'Oh course your theory is crazy. But is it crazy enough?"- Niel Bohr
I think blogs represent the ultimate in narcissistic self publishing. Not quite masturbation, which has the added benefit of being downright pleasurable, albeit lonely...but in that neighborhood of solipsistic self definition...
September 8, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The coverage on TPM of the Abramoff and related scandals was good, as well as Alaskan scandals. The better work on Scooter Libby was done at FireDogLake but TPM made a good mirror. But the election season has not been kind for the site.
September 8, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. Partisan scaries arrived with chains and shivs...shoutfesting ruled..
September 8, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
TPM is the news entity whose original reporting brought together the stories of the firing of US Attorneys in various jurisdictions around the country. No traditional new source did. TPM did it by appealing to its readers to remain alert to reports of USA firings in their local media. Readers responded, enabling TPM to be the first to report that eight US Attorneys had been dismissed and to determine the nefarious reasons behnd the firings.
Because of its work at bring the story together TPM was the first online news organization to be award a journalism prize, the name of which I don't remember.
I'm certain there are other examples which escape me at the moment.
There are in fact a number of online news entities doing original reporting and more and more integrators which make news available to us from sources heretofore inaccessible to us.
And in fact that media landscape is changing because of the internet. As the PEW Research Center report released in mid-August indicates.
September 8, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, the other point to be made is if you don't like what you find at TPM, change the channel.
September 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I fully understand that, and this post of mine may be my last goodbye. As for your main point about the journalism that TPM does, my point was precisely that it isn't particularly useful. People may be getting news from the internet, but they are largely using it as a newspaper. Reading washingtonpost.com is still the same as reading the washington post. Ultimately, a journalistic blog is pretty pointless.
September 8, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is from a loyal TPM'er who wants to see it do its best.
There has been a bit of a reactive feel around here since the Primary season, so I think Reece has a point. Has the shine come off the blogosphere?
September 8, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!
September 8, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nicholas Lemann waz right:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/08/07/060807fa_fact1
September 8, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I liked TPM better in the old days, when it was just Josh. He hi-lighted little stories ignored by the MSM and would not let them die. That is what I liked--and he was absolutely scrupulous about his sources and his facts, always willing to lay down before the Truth like a little child, to paraphrase TH Huxley.
But since he expanded the site to the Cafe and reader comments, there is a lot more noise on the site, and the valuable content is diluted.
I used to read Eschaton a lot, but it just slid slowly but surely into irrelevancy. I still prowl the blogosphere, looking for relevance, but an awful lot of it has become quasi institutionalized--and my favorite blog of all time Whiskey Bar, is defunct.
There was a DaDa movement once in Zurich, and then Lenin took a train for Moscow, in 1917.
When World War I ended in 1918, most of the Zürich Dadaists returned to their home countries, and some began Dada activities in other cities. Zürich Dada, with Tristan Tzara at the helm, published the art and literature review Dada beginning in July 1917, with five editions from Zürich and the final two from Paris.Many Dadaists believed that the 'reason' and 'logic' of bourgeois capitalist society had led people into war. They expressed their rejection of that ideology in artistic expression that appeared to reject logic and embrace chaos and irrationality. George Grosz later recalled that his Dadaist art was intended as a protest "against this world of mutual destruction".
I am beginning to see the Blogosphere as something akin to Zurich Dada. Ephemeral in its essence. A product of its time. Where is Kevin Drum--Mother Jones. The original Wonkette? Time, Inc. And Huffington Post is as far from the early Eschaton as you can get. You catch my drift?
September 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that's definitely an interesting thought. I love the analogy with Dadaism. The question is whether the blogosphere will die like dadaism did, and if it does, what will replace it?
September 8, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is a good question. With Zurich Dadaism, it went underground for a while and returned as Parisian Dadaism, now an art movement. Many of the original ideas of Zurich Dada splintered off into many different schools.
With the Blogosphere, I think the trend I have observed is that many of the best blogs were either anonymous pro's, or gifted and talented writers who ended up going pro. In other words, it was a stepping stone for many aspiring writers, and now is a way for professional writers to keep their name accessible in the public eye.
TPM went pro, hired staff, and followed the emerging trend of alternative online journalistically oriented communities such as DailKos, HuffPo, FireDogLake, Hullabaloo, The Editors, etc., etc, This is what happened historically, with the emergence of literary magazines or science fiction fanzines.
I think this trend will continue--but it is much more difficult now for gifted new solo voices to make an impact and attract readers, and make themselve heard, because the competition is so fierce in this space. And now that readers have begun to realize that citizen journalists won't change political futures, maybe they will devote their time to other activities besides reading blogs.
September 8, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dada NEVER die!
Left left left right left.
We got rhythm.
September 8, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
As for what TPM accomplishes...It got me, a person who has been politically lazy, off my butt and actually working for Obama instead of just voting for him...and truth be told, got me to change my affiliation from Republican to Democrat...that's something, isn't it?
September 8, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup.
September 8, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jano, if Marshall really really cared about muckraking and Obama winning more than he cared about getting higher traffic numbers, he would be taking on some of the the neck-deep muck that is being posted on his very own website on the Reader Blog pages.
It would be a very simple matter to post on the TPM front page: "this story being pushed in my Reader Blogs is not true," no censorship involved. But he lets the muck not just stand but spread, on his very own website, because it's paying for salaries.
Muckraking begins at home. There's a lot of muck on his Reader Blog pages, muck that's also hurting Obama's chances.
September 8, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is not a lot of self editing on reader's pages. A whole lot of emotional outcry--which may feel good--but generally is not of much interest or value to others--who seek objective information, not a report that you are pissed off about something. And the good stuff is all mixed in with the bad stuff and has a shelf life of about 5 minutes. Spending 15 minutes reading through worthless self indulgent rants generally drives me from the site for a couple of days...
September 8, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jano, if Marshall really really cared about muckraking and Obama winning more than he cared about getting higher traffic numbers, he would be taking on some of the the neck-deep muck that is being posted on his very own website on the Reader Blog pages.
It would be a very simple matter to post on the TPM front page: "this story being pushed in my Reader Blogs is not true," no censorship involved. But he lets the muck not just stand but spread, on his very own website, because it's paying for salaries.
Muckraking begins at home. There's a lot of muck on his Reader Blog pages, muck that's also hurting Obama's chances.
September 8, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jano, if Marshall really really cared about muckraking and Obama winning more than he cared about getting higher traffic numbers, he would be taking on some of the the neck-deep muck that is being posted on his very own website on the Reader Blog pages.
It would be a very simple matter to post on the TPM front page: "this story being pushed in my Reader Blogs is not true," no censorship involved. But he lets the muck not just stand but spread, on his very own website, because it's paying for salaries.
Muckraking begins at home. There's a lot of muck on his Reader Blog pages, muck that's also hurting Obama's chances.
September 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry about the triple commenting. It happened becasue I tried refreshing the browser page after I got the error message--a word to the wise--don't try that!
September 8, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hah, I'm just happy to have 16 responses to my post
September 8, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was meant as snark. I included a fake html tag that was effectively:
[/selfimportantwankery]
it's kind of funny that the site thought it was real.
September 8, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would be a cool name for an actual weblog.
September 8, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
not a bad idea
September 8, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reece,
I understand your frustration, I guess. It would be nice if a superior source of information (your vision for blogs like TPM?) really could have an effect on the lousy crap coming from CNN, MSNBC, FOXNews, etc., or at least become a replacement for larger numbers of people. But we're not really seeing that happen, are we?
I never expected TPM to be a vehicle for getting better information out into the public. I initially discovered TPM through the excellent (IMO) Muckraker page. But I guess I've always accepted that most people won't get their information from a site like TPM Muckraker or the other TPM pages.
As for Josh's comments about the election (like the one that irked you), I kind of appreciate those comments. It's informative to me to hear Josh's personal thoughts as he views the events of the election through a professional journalist's perspective.
For what it's worth, I think TPM has had a positive effect in getting higher quality information out to the public (see comment by "still idealistic" upthread) -- it's just hard to see if the positive effect is enough to blunt the damage of all the crap spewed by the cable news networks.
Sorry, Reece. I wish I had something to say that would make you feel better. Looks like I'm saying you should shift your expectations down.
September 8, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as you've offered this friendly venue, I'd like to pile on some more after visiting the TPM front page. :-)
Pitiful is a word I would use too:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/214507.php
but not as he applies it. I find it pitiful that one who professes journalism business skills sees some McCain camp plot, rather than Brokaw and Williams furiously pushing to clean up their own back yard. Would behoove Marshall to do the same if he wants R-E-S-P-E-C-T. At least they're trying, even if the results may not be up to par.
September 8, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, what the heck is happeninig to TPMCafe?
Did some high school civics teacher assign a couple classes to blog here?
See
"Fan-freaking-tastic!" @
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/finally-obama-wakes-up.php
or this mumbled jumble about Rush Limbaugh that apparently took the poster 15 years to verbalize
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/a-simple-question-for-the-trol.php
or this person terrified of losing Olberman:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/olberman-sacked.php
,
it just keeps coming. Why do we read it, indeed; you said it, Reece. To quote Al Gore, it's time for us to go...see ya when the grownups come back. :-)
September 8, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
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