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We're Running Against Teddy Roosevelt!
I've been thinking that if you mash McCain and Palin together you get something like a Teddy Roosevelt. I don't mean actually in terms of history or positions, but in a general impression way. The gestalt is Teddy Roosevelt like.
A lot of people around here will disagree, of course.
On the other hand, if you mash Obama and Biden together, who do you get? Not what. Who?
I can't think of anyone. Nobody I'd want as President anyway. And, apparently, no one else can come up with anyone either.
So where does that leave us?
We're running against Teddy Roosevelt and an ecstatic evangelical base.
Our only plus? The Obama black church and young voter ground game, plus the Progressive blogosphere, but we're outnumbered by the evangelicals and Catholics.
In a world where people buy Presidential brands, the Roosevelt brand could be a winner this year. Maybe that's why the Progressive blogosphere is pulling out all stops in their attacks on Palin. Obama vs. Roosevelt. Tough match. Not the "McSame" we were hoping to run against.



Comments (131)
Where does Teddy come in? More big mouth and tiny stick in McCain's case. More exploit than conserve. More ignore business than monitor and regulate. Don't see Palin's TR component, either. Think your own pessimism is generating that gestalt.
Given we have a unique nominee it's hardly unusual you can't think of a personality mashup for Obama/Biden. Not sure why it would be useful to come up with one.
September 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't you read? He came up with a mash-up impression of McCain/Palin that makes sense only to himself ... AND HE CAN'T THINK OF A MASH-UP FOR OBAMA/BIDEN!!!
And as the comments so far show, NEITHER CAN ANYONE ELSE!!!
Can you blame him for being DEEPLY CONCERNED???
HE CAN'T THINK OF A MASH-UP!!! OF COURSE HE'S CONCERNED!!!
He's thought this through. He's concluded that YOU CAN'T BEAT TEDDY ROOSEVELT THIS YEAR as he says in a comment below.
YOU CAN'T BEAT TEDDY ROOSEVELT THIS YEAR!!!
HOW CAN YOU NOT BE CONCERNED!?!? DON'T YOU GET IT?!?!? YOU CAN'T BEAT TEDDY ROOSEVELT THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 1, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Needless to say, if we were running Hillary/Obama this year then the obvious mash-up would be Dame Edna. Dame Edna beats Teddy Roosevelt, no question about it. But nobody can think of a mashup for Obama/Biden. We're doomed.
YOU CAN'T BEAT TEDDY ROOSEVELT THIS YEAR!!!
Everyone just let that sink in until despair takes over and you can admit that a huge, huge mistake was made in not nominating Hillary.
YOU CAN'T BEAT TEDDY ROOSEVELT THIS YEAR!!!
September 1, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy Glad is one of my favorite writers on TPMCafe, and some of his insights are right up there with the very best political writing anywhere on the internet.
But this shit is senseless.
The number of Teddy Roosevelt's qualities that McCain and Palin possess together is zero.
Just for one example, TR was the greatest conservationist ever to hold the office of the Presidency. The system of national parks is his creation.
Palin and McCain would pave over Yosemite for nothing.
September 1, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
After further reflection, I think Billy's post is an absurdist send-up of the idiotic noise that passes for discussion on TPMCafe. If Obama is the new Messiah, and Biden is an intelligent person, instead of the pompous moron that many of us have observed over the last 25 years, you might as well call Palin/McCain a mash-up of Teddy Roosevelt...
Although personally I prefer to see Palin/Obama as a mash-up of Spongebob Squarepants.
September 1, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't expect the pieces to fit for many people. And I couldn't explain why McCain/Palin reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt or why I think they can make that pitch. Maybe it's just the Navy and the bear. Maybe it's the ranch. Maybe the attacks on Palin's family pissed me off. We'll have to see how it plays out over the next few weeks. Ideas are like puppies. They're not all keepers.
September 2, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
My only "concern" bob is that you might have a stroke. LOL. Why don't you stick your head up your ass and try to catch the bug I stuck up there?
Analysis is not "concern." Sarcasm is not "concern." Sticking it to you is not "concern."
Stop encouraging me.
September 1, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is, what you wrote was not "analysis." Free association is not analysis. McCain/Palin reminds you of Teddy Roosevelt. Okaaaaaaay. Who is anyone else to second-guess your freaky subconscious? But ... oh dear oh my ... an Obama/Biden mash-up doesn't remind you of anyone! So you can't beat Teddy Roosevelt! You can't beat Teddy Roosevelt! You can't beat Teddy Roosevelt!
Sigh. If only we'd run Hillary/Biden. I get a Dr. Frank-N-Furter from Rocky Horror Picture Show vibe from that mash-up. Teddy Roosevelt loses to Dr. Frank-N-Furter. The youngsters will turn out to vote for Dr. Frank-N-Furter with hot dogs and rice to throw, dontchaknow. Messy voting booths, but a Democratic victory in November, and isn't that all any of us want?
You used to write relatively coherent analysis. Sometimes straining to find a way to support the concerns that concern you so concernfully, but coherent and reasonable-sounding. Now you're reduced to trying to extrapolate from stuff your sub-conscious dishes up for you.
September 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
How you coming on catching that bug? Want me to send Jason and Ben over to help?
September 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
bob bob's first post was a little weird, but he's right in his second one. You don't make a case for what you're saying. I could say that the republian ticket is more like Elmer Fudd and "Flo" from Mel's Diner. I happen to think that most people can make that association easier than yours.
But if you don't actually make a case for it, you leave yourself open.
So, howsabout it? How is McCain like Roosevelt? Was Roosevelt an ill-tempered, low-intellect life-time politician who traded on his one claim to fame, which was being a POW? How many planes did Teddy crash? Not as many as hot-rod John, I'll bet!
September 1, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
They both love the Navy?
September 2, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's pretty weak tea.
September 2, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't make it up for you. You have to make it up for yourself.
September 2, 2008 6:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I see it, Billy's post is an absurdist send-up of the idiotic noise that passes for discussion on TPMCafe. If Obama is the new Messiah, and Biden is an intelligent person, instead of the pompous moron that many of us have observed over the last 25 years, you might as well call Palin/McCain a mash-up of Teddy Roosevelt...
Although personally I prefer to see Palin/Obama as a mash-up of Spongebob Squarepants.
September 1, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm so scared...I think I'm starting to get you, Billy... :-)
September 1, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
bob bob's first post was a little weird, but he's right in his second one. You don't make a case for what you're saying. I could say that the republican ticket is more like Elmer Fudd and "Flo" from Mel's Diner. I happen to think that most people can make that association easier than yours.
But if you don't actually make a case for it, you leave yourself open.
So, howsabout it? How is McCain like Roosevelt? Was Roosevelt an ill-tempered, low-intellect life-time politician who traded on his one claim to fame, which was being a POW? How many planes did Teddy crash? Not as many as hot-rod John, I'll bet!
September 1, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm scared...I'm starting to get you , Billy!
September 1, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that why lies and malice reign supreme at TPM these days? You are about to get your asses kicked, and I'm beginning to think it's a good thing. I hope Obama is doing a better job of keeping a respectable face on his other constituencies. This one stinks. Just take a look at the most recommended reader posts around here. Make you proud?
September 1, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Out of the ten most recommended, two of them deal with the baby bullshit. The rest are telling people to let this crap go or speaking to more pertinent stories, such as the Matanuska Maid story.
In case you didn't notice, many people recommend to get the comments up top, not necessarily the blog itself. Most comments on the "Waterbreakgate" posts are firmly against this sort of tabloid nonsense.
I thought you said that you were giving up the Concern Trolling.
September 1, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought you were giving up eating your boogers. Guess we were both wrong.
September 1, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant repartee. Did you go to college to learn that debating style or is it something you were born with?
September 1, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
What do you get if you mash up Jason, Bob and Ben? The three monkeys of the echo chamber.
September 1, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, not Teddy Roosevelt.
More like George Castanza.
September 2, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, not Teddy Roosevelt.
More like George Castanza.
September 2, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not even close to Teddy, Billy, but good try. At best, they equal a less attractive version of Nixon or Daddy Bush. Obama and Biden must be equal FDR then in your analogy. Perhaps Johnson. Liberal Hawks for sure. Kucinich and Dodd were the only democratic doves running this year.
I think you greatly over-estimate the "evangelical" base of the GOP. The Religious Right evangelicals are perhaps 10 to 15% of the electorate, at best, and are steadily shrinking despite their well-financed bully pulpit. They are joined by neoconservatives who are also a steadily shrinking minority in the GOP.
I have read editorials and heard more mainstream, progressive evangelicals blast the republicans for their failures to combat a whole host of issues they are much more concerned with than gays and abortion. They are starting to see the hypocrisy that has been so well-shielded from them over these last 40 years. I won't be a bit surprised by a strong showing of evangelicals this Fall for Barack, most of whom actually know what his "black church" is really all about.
What exactly is your issue that you can't let your Obama hate go?
September 1, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't you try answering the question? You may be using his picture as your avatar, but you don't know much about him, and you certainly don't speak with his authority.
Hate Obama? You must not be reading my posts and comments anymore. A blessing. However, just to fill you in, it's not about hate, it's abut exasperation, and I'm hardly the only one. How many weeks does Obama get whipped by McCain before the blogosphere gets the message?
September 1, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know plenty about Teddy Roosevelt as well the historically more progressive republican party. In fact, Woodrow Wilson beat Taft and TR by accusing them of being socialists. FDR was inspired by his progressive uncle to push for his reforms once he had the political capital to do so. McCain-Palin aren't qualified to scoop the poop of TR's horse.
Just because neocon clones call you a "reformer" doesn't mean you are one.
If this was meant to be "snark" then it was well disguised as more Concern Trolling from the cheap seats. If you have truly changed your tune with regards to Barack, I can't find any posts or comments that show it. Perhaps it is you who are being unclear as can be judged by how most people took the spirit of this post?
September 1, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Changed my tune in what way? And it's not snark. That's not my style. It's a consideration of the campaign and the candidates and what we are up against.
What I find entertaining is how little people like you understand the image and gestalt of a candidate. Please don't bore me with your knowledge of who Roosevelt was and what his administration stood for. Yesterday, someone told me he never rode up that hill.
September 1, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
This coming from the guy who predicted Barack's imminent fall from grace every day of the primary and Hillary's ultimate victory. Yeah, I am the one who is uninformed and can't understand nuance or imagery. Your comments would be funny if they weren't so pathetic.
September 1, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I forgot the fundamental fact that you can never go wrong by underestimating the intelligence of the Democratic Party. With you around, I'm not likely to make that mistake again.
September 1, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I am a democrat now? Better watch your mouth, those are fighting words.
September 1, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now crawl off of my thread. I have enough wings for the day.
September 1, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Guess you never noticed that I am a registered republican, despite the fact the modern GOP doesn't represent my policy interests. Like millions of other Obamicans.
Unlike democrats, we know how to plan a long-term strategy to win and then stick to our guns. You guys are like herding a bunch of cats, though, as NCSteve pointed out, at least you can get cats to all come to the sound of a can-opener.
Heading off your "thread" for greener and saner pastures.
September 1, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't let the doorknob hit you in your uptight Republican ass.
September 1, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm uptight? You're the one whistling Dixie through your bung-hole over every perceived misstep of Obama's campaign team. You have a serious kettle problem, Billy. Good thing most Obamicans don't hold Barack's democrats against him.
September 1, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm uptight? You're the one whistling Dixie through your bung-hole over every perceived misstep of Obama's campaign team. You have a serious kettle problem, Billy. Good thing most Obamicans don't hold Barack's democrats against him.
September 1, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn, I didn't mean to post twice and didn't actually hit anything for it to occur. This site's blogging software blows big fat Billy's, um, chunks.
September 1, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
What week are you referring to? Last week Obama showed he's tough enough for the Presidency, this week McCain is showing he's not sensible enough.
All is well, IMO. I hate polls, but there has been a bounce, and it will continue.
September 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mashing the Presidential and VP candidates together: just as smart as choosing who you'd like to have a beer with!
OK, seriously, I realize that you might just be reflecting voters' methods and not recommending them, but still…really?
As for the fact that you can't think of who'd you get if you mash Biden and Obama together, I take that as a net positive. It reinforces his idea of change. (I know you were trying to avoid that answer by reinforcing the who over the what, but I'm explaining the lack of a who by a what.) Sure, change can be good or bad, but only someone who hasn't been paying attention doesn't know what kind of change Obama is advocating. (We can disagree on how successful he's likely to be in bringing that change about, but that's true about every politician who's ever lived.)
Finally, Teddy Roosevelt? Because McCain's an older white male (never seen one of those before) who claims to be mavericky (a claim still tacitly supported by the MSM, unfortunately), and she likes to shoot guns? Is that where you're getting your gestalt from, or is there something more?
My impression is someone much more recent: George W. Bush: older white male who likes to pretend to be something he's not (McCain), who's not quite sure where he stands on certain issues but is quite adamant that he's strong on those issue (McCain), and who is overall quite clueless about a wide swath of issues (McCain and Palin).
Another possible comparison is Mondale/Ferraro, of course.
September 1, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, yeah. I forgot that we might as well not talk to each other since I have no understanding of culture or whatever.
September 1, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have to watch out for the new stuff, Ben. McCain/Plain mashed up is something new. It may be out of desperation, or it may be very clever, but it's a fact now and you have to deal with it. Trust me. You can't beat Teddy Roosevelt this year. People are going to vote for reform over revolution every time. Both memes represent change, but the Roosevelt one is safer and cooler. Who would have thought?
September 1, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I agree it's new. But to the degree that it bears any resemblance to past presidential administrations, it's closer to Bush than to Roosevelt. Bush has about a 30% approval rating right now. (Remember: Roosevelt split with his party to form the Bull Moose Party. Could you imagine McCain doing something like that?)
One can argue about who is safer, but as for who is "cooler", McCain has been working against that meme for the past several months with his anti-celebrity advertisements. Face it, those who want "cool" (also a bad way to choose a president) are going to go with Obama.
September 1, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, there you go again, Ben. I talk about image and gestalt and you talk about "administrations." Why did you bother to drop by today? You're not here to entertain a new idea or think about anything in a new way. You need to go read and recommend some sleazy crap about Palin and her kids. Maybe you'll find that comforting.
September 1, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I'll leave you then with one consideration then: I actually did entertain your idea of "gestalt", I think I was very civil about it, and you stooped to bringing in "sleazy crap about Palin and her kids".
I'm as puzzled now as I was when you made your original request to stop talking to you, but I doubt very strongly that you'll explain your dislike for my alternate viewpoints in a way that I'll be able to understand, possibly due to my lack of knowledge of culture. Nevertheless, I'll respect your request. (Initially, I honestly forgot about it briefly, and when you responded, I thought perhaps you'd changed your mind. My mistake.)
September 1, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I stooped to bringing in "sleazy crap?" Don't you read the other blogs, Ben? I'm flattered. If you don't like guilt by association, why not speak out against the dirt that's been posted ever since Palin was announced? I'm sick and tired of watching this site tear women and kids down.
September 1, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, since you addressed me directly, I'll assume you actually want me to respond.
Yes, in our conversation, you're the one who brought up the "sleazy crap". I did not. Why did you bring it up, when the discussion was about gestalt and/or administration comparisons? I have a theory about why you brought it up, but I'll let you answer the question.
I have. Repeatedly. Although I try not to do it so much that it reinforces the sleaze. (I.e., by "walking it back".)
September 1, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for speaking out. As for me, I'm going to spend a couple of weeks at Free Republic so that I can find a reason to believe in Obama again.
September 1, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
And, Ben, I'm sorry, but I still think you're dull. Do we a favor and stay gone this time.
September 1, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not entirely sure how you get Roosevelt out of adding those two, but moreso I suspect that your generational gap is showing.
I do not want another Lincoln. I do not want another Roosevelt. Nor another JFK. Not another Washington, not another Bill Clinton.
I want someone contemporary, a child of this era, a product of a world that has progressed to where we are now. Not a ghost of what once was.
September 1, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll take that as you can't think of anybody either. So you attack McCain/Palin. Good luck with that in November.
September 1, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about you take it as "no, I am not going to get off your lawn."
September 1, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about you try to limber up your mind? Why are you so square, man. The medium is still the massage. Obama/Biden is dull. Try not to act out your avatar. It's giving you a closed mind.
September 1, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are the one insisting on the rather narrow view that Obama/Biden must be definable in terms of some other person.
Perhaps you opened your mind so far that it came all the way back closed?
September 1, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you don't want to play, don't play. Go read a book or something. Or go start your own game. Beat it.
September 1, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see McCain/Palin as mashed potatoes and applesauce. I see Obama/Biden as a root beer float. Are we allowed to mash them in nutritional terms?
September 1, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. At least that's in the spirit of the post. Thanks.
September 1, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then again some things are better not mashed. I like lasagna and peach ice cream, but not mashed together. Eaten separately and sequentially they are quite a tasty meal. So maybe we don't need to mash to appreciate. Might be that the sum is not better than the parts, or that there is no synergy from amalgamation.
September 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you mash Obama and Biden together you get John McCain.
September 1, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. That's a direct hit.
September 1, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Talk about the monkey's in the echo chamber. You represent the classic definition of a circle jerk.
September 1, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I figured you'd be back. Listen, Republican, bob needs you to help him look for something. Better put a rubber over your head first. You'll look like what you are. Stick that other leg over here and I'll pull it off, too. Keep it up and somebody will have to carry you out of here.
September 1, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I figured you'd be back. Listen, Republican, bob needs you to help him look for something. Better put a rubber over your head first. You'll look like what you are. Stick that other leg over here and I'll pull it off, too. Keep it up and somebody will have to carry you out of here.
September 1, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You thought it was so clever that you said it twice. You really aren't capably of a battle of the wits with so little ammunition at hand.
September 1, 2008 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotta love a typo when you are commenting on someone's lack of wit. Let me get to that before you do. I am not without a sense of irony.
September 1, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry. I never use typos against people. Anyway, you're such a target rich environment nobody would have to.
I actually got the idea for this post when I noticed your avatar yesterday.
September 1, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am flattered - I think. I will apologize if you are merely trying to start a fun game of mash-up versus more Concern Trolling about Barack's supposed ass-kicking to come.
You seem to take great offense from being accused of the practice, though it happens a lot, so perhaps it isn't all me? I really do try to take things at face value most of the time.
September 1, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
A lot of people around here, including Josh Marshall, take criticism for "concern trolling." Everyone knows I'm critical of Obama and of Josh, not necessarily in that order. The suggestion that I would stoop to concealing my criticism as "concern" offends me. I mean it. Taken together, McCain and Palin evoke Teddy Roosevelt for me. On the other hand, Biden adds nothing to Obama. Clinton is not a factor. I "put that woman down long ago." I don't think anyone can deny that Palin really energized the evangelicals, so we are going to have to contest the vote with them. As I said elsewhere, I'm going to be canvassing in the most racially divided city in America. It's going to be bad enough canvassing for Obama v. McCain. Canvassing for Obama v. a couple of reformers in the TR mode is going to be tough.
September 1, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The server sucks today, so I have no idea where this will end up or if will be a double or triple post. I'm critical of Obama. Also Josh. Wouldn't stoop to hiding it as "concern." For me, McCain plus Palin looks some like Roosevelt, but Biden adds nothing to Obama. Clinton is beside the point. Yesterday's news.
However, I feel better about Obama. Appears he has just promised to fire anyone who talks about Palin's family. Period. Good man. Too bad he can't fire Marshall and company, or at least come over here and rebuke them the way he did Kos.
Hope this doesn't double or triple post.
September 1, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am starting to get you. I never had the same problems with Obama that you do, so sometimes it comes across as disingenuous. I'll be sure to take any criticism at face value, even if I don't necessarily agree.
September 2, 2008 6:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was actually happy that you were willing to read and comment on my posts again.
September 2, 2008 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
.....in black go-go boots riding a bucking bronco.
Rough Rider.
Oh! Now I get it.
:D Thanks gasket.
September 1, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain/Palin = Millard Fillmore
Obama/Biden = FDR
That was for the price of admission. Like Roo-P, LowlyWorm and Ben, I see no value or relevance in this "mash-up" game.
McCain and Palin are fundamentally weak candidates independently and remain weak when you link them.
On the other, Obama and Biden are strong candidates separately, and stronger still when teamed together.
But Teddy Roosevelt... no way. I went to Teddy Roosevelt High, and Govsenator, you're no Teddy Roosevelt.
September 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best comment I've seen you make. :) I may have to start reading your comments again.
September 1, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
BG: I do think you are right that McCain and Palin are easier to mash. Porky Pig comes to mind. And if we must mash Obama/Biden, keeping with the cartoon genre, then they would be Bugs Bunny.
September 1, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem with this game is that it requires people to really look at Obama, Biden, and Palin. If people are unwilling to do that, they get defensive.
Biden and Obama are Popeye and Eugene the Jeep. Maybe they don't mash together into a comprehensible character.
If it were a Clinton/Biden ticket, however, it would be the marriage of Olive Oyl and Popeye.
September 1, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gasket, I always look forward to reading your comments. Sharp, fresh and never brainwashed or afraid. Thank you.
September 1, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do too. We differ, but (s)he definitely rocks.
September 1, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, thanks, Lalo. The feeling's mutual. ;-)
September 1, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
We differ, but Gasket rocks!
September 1, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
So do you AdAbsurdum! ;-)
(Hope this message posts someday...)
September 1, 2008 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's one that doesn't quite fit right, but there's a bit of it going one. (And I'm only using US pols in my mash-up pool.) Mash Biden & Obama = Early Bill Clinton. Stop shouting for a minute, and lemme try this: Biden was always ... not-quite-Bill. Smart, but not quite AS smart as Bill. Big smile & appeal, but not the charisma Bill had. Loved to speak, and WANTED to lift it to RFK levels - but couldn't match Bill. Folksy, appeal to working class - but Ahm Gonna Hug Ya Bill could out-feel-your-pain. Bill was cool & could handle questions, Biden would periodically jump the tracks.
Now, what does Obama add to Biden? (I know, I know, Obama should be the stronger form here, not Biden, but I'm just playin'.) Obama is a far superior speaker to Biden. He has a real charisma, though not of the same type as Bill. Obama is a smart guy, some intellectual horsepower. He's cooler than Biden. So if I was starting with Biden, and added Obama... then I'd say we're in mash-up Bill territory.
Problem is... if you start with OBAMA and then add a bit of Biden (which is likely how most people "see" it), I'm not even sure what our base comparator would be. Probably JFK the only one that resonates for me at ALL - charisma, cool, intellect, youth, not really a "workin' man," etc. Add Biden to him & you'd track more toward Bobby maybe - more emotion, willing to muck in the dirt, more changeable in his course.
But somehow, the feeling I think you're questioning right now is Obama-Biden don't seem to "stand out" as a character against the backdrop noise & mood - at this moment - as McCain/Palin with the Teddy, Pirate, Rebel, Maverick schtick that they WANT to get out there can. And no, McCain's no Teddy. But would he take that FEEL, that image? In a flash. Do they want to create it? Probably yes. Will it hang together? Not so sure.
Politics is chemistry. Things can react well together initially, and then... explode. Or turn to mush. Or solidify into something inert. So this one's still reacting....
September 1, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're running against that demented character in Arsenic and Old Lace who thought he was Teddy Roosevelt.
September 1, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awesome.
September 1, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you find that bug, you can feed it to the chicken.
September 1, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The one up yer ass?
=D
No, thank you.
It's weird, as I usually agree with you, but I've got to say, this game seems to me to be a practice in "how to build a strawman."
I think you're mad at something, maybe that you never saw this coming, and it's got you scared. I guess I'm not scared of Palin or McCain, so there's the difference.
Looking forward to more, usual, posts from you.
--The chicken
September 1, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The one up bob's ass. Pissed off because I didn't see it coming? No. As far as I know, the only person around here who even thought Palin was in play was tonalli, after researching Republican women politicians. Is there something angry about my post? I don't see it that way. My anger is for people who run into my thread shouting CONCERN TROLL! instead of reading and moving on or making a relevant comment. I also have some anger for people in my Party who attack women and children. And the echo chamber has been feeding on Palin and her kids non-stop since McCain selected her. The hatred of women on this site is appalling.
September 1, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I hear that. I'm staying off those threads. I tried to get folks to stop it yesterday, but it was like a flood.
I do think your point on trolls is right on, though, looking around it seems to me Right Wing Blogs are having a field day helping to perpetrate this nonsense.
Best thing is to ignore it, or possibly alerting management.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/offended-and-demand-action.php
September 1, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Admittedly I've only breezed thru the most recent posts and comments, but I'm not seeing much "hatred of women" around here.
I imagine that some of our responses would be just as vile and misguided if Pawlenty (or anyone else) was McCain's VP pick and he had some sort of comparable, similarly gossip-worthy situation going on. There's no reason (that I can see) to think that this anger or "hatred" is directed at Palin because she is a woman. And it's all understandable - our friends here want to win. Some are just going about it all wrong, I agree.
But as to your image comparison... I'd say that McCain/Palin maybe resembles Patrick Swayze/Lori Petty from Point Break in some folk's minds. And then, I guess it's somewhat easy to see Obama/Biden as Keanu Reeves/Gary Busey?
...Yep. (Clearly I have no idea but, there. I played ;)
September 1, 2008 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Admittedly I've only breezed thru the most recent posts and comments, but I'm not seeing much "hatred of women" around here.
I imagine that some of our responses would be just as vile and misguided if Pawlenty (or anyone else) was McCain's VP pick and he had some sort of comparable, similarly gossip-worthy situation going on. There's no reason (that I can see) to think that this anger or "hatred" is directed at Palin because she is a woman. And it's all understandable - our friends here want to win. Some are just going about it all wrong. I do wonder if we'd be less bothered if the punching bag was a guy though.
But as to your image comparison... I'd say that McCain/Palin maybe resembles Patrick Swayze/Lori Petty from Point Break in some folk's minds. And then, I guess it's somewhat easy to see Obama/Biden as Keanu Reeves/Gary Busey?
...Yeah. Clearly I have no idea.
September 1, 2008 11:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Admittedly I've only breezed thru the most recent posts and comments, but I'm not seeing much "hatred of women" around here.
I imagine that some of our responses would be just as vile and misguided if Pawlenty (or anyone else) was McCain's VP pick and he had some sort of comparable, similarly gossip-worthy situation going on. There's no reason (that I can see) to think that this anger or "hatred" is directed at Palin because she is a woman. And it's all understandable - our friends here want to win. Some are just going about it all wrong. I do wonder if we'd be less bothered if the punching bag was a guy though.
But as to your image comparison... I'd say that McCain/Palin maybe resembles Patrick Swayze/Lori Petty from Point Break in some folk's minds. And then, I guess it's somewhat easy to see Obama/Biden as Keanu Reeves/Gary Busey?
...Yeah. Clearly I have no idea.
September 1, 2008 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink