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The Polls Are Wrong--A Little Dose of Reality

My Democrat friends are getting nervous.  They see Obama sliding in the polls and they're beginning to wonder if there's a chance John McCain could actually win this thing.  Could McCain's choice of Sarah Palin have actually turned things around?  Could the lies about Obama be working?  Is Obama hitting back hard enough?

First, the absurdly obvious: NO campaign risks lying about their opponent unless they're already in full desperation mode.  In order to choose the path of lies, you've got to be nearly positive you're going to lose no matter what you do.  Lying during a political campaign is a last-chance suicide mission.  It's the political equivalent of tying a rag around your head, grabbing a machine gun, and running straight at the enemy, screaming, "Die, you pinko sons-of-bitches!"  It's an all-or-nothing gambit, and it rarely pays off.  Hard-hitting negative ads are one thing, but telling flat-out lies is quite another.  Especially when those lies are told repeatedly, well after they've been shown to be lies, and well after they have turned the press against you.  If you're a Republican, and the Wall Street Journal starts calling you a liar, you can know you're in deep, deep trouble.  And when your lie about the Bridge To Nowhere has been thoroughly discredited and is universally known to be a lie, and yet you keep telling it, well, that's just pathetic.  If they had anything else, they'd bring it.  They have nothing else.

Second: McCain's biggest advantage in this race was experience.  When he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate, it was a clear sign that team McCain had realized that experience wasn't a strong issue with voters.  So McCain picked Palin, and in doing so, dropped the experience argument, never to take it up again.  When a candidate abandons their strongest argument on the way into the home stretch, that's a very clear sign that something isn't working.  And when they try to steal their opponent's argument, that's an admission that your opponent's argument is working.  The very foundation of McCain's campaign--experience--has been a failure.  He's now competing for the change agent mantle--just as Hillary did during the primary season.  It won't work for McCain any better than it did for Clinton.  The cloak is the clear property of Obama, and the McCain campaign well knows it.  Change IS the issue of this election, and change is what Obama, and only Obama, promises.

Third: the Obama campaign has registered 11 million new voters so far.  11 million new voters who have never voted before.  11 million new voters who are now flying almost completely
under the radar.  No statistical prediction or electoral map can accomodate them.  The
pundits don't know how they're going to affect the race, and the
pollsters don't know how to include them in the polls.  But the Obama
people know them very well.  And they know how to get them out to the polls in November.  Remember when the campaign told supporters to sign up to receive a text message when Obama had picked his running mate?  Well, that ain't nothin'.  Wait until election day.  On that day, the Obama campaign will send out the most massive text message bomb of all time.  And the the Republicans?  They will send out nothing.  Because they don't even get how this stuff works.  On November 4th, 2008, 11 million new voters--and many, many more--will come swarming
to the polls as if out of nowhere.  The Republicans
know this, and they know that they have no way to compete.  It will be a landslide of epic proportions. 

Think about this: even with all of the negative attacks and lies by the McCain campaign, and even with the Sarah Palin pick (and probably because of it) Obama raised a record amount of money last month.  More money than any candidate in the history of presidential elections. Over 79% of the amount he would have received if he had chosen public financing--in a single month.  But more even important: he added 500,000 new donors to his database.  500,000 new donors who will absolutely vote for him in November.  If that many people donated money, how many more people are committed to voting for him even though they may not choose to give money to the campaign?  And there's still a month and a half to go.

The latest Gallup poll sampled equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats.  But we know there aren't equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats.  We know the Democrats outnumber the Republicans this year.  By what measure?  Obama knows.  Biden knows.  David Axelrod and David Plouffe know.  The rest of us are just gonna have to wait until election day and be amazed.


Comments (76)

But what about the new SurveyUSA poll of Virginia that just posted? I like that one. Really the polls are good news because people are realizing they still need to work for this. Campaign for Change in Alexandria, VA had a huge turnout of volunteers saturday morning for canvassing. Make sure you get out and talk to people about why you're voting for Obama - I talked to 5 undecided voters who I know are going to get out and vote for Obama on Nov. 4. A lot of people out there just need to talk to a normal person who is supporting Obama and they're going to fall our way.

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"But what about the new SurveyUSA poll of Virginia that just posted? I like that one. Really the polls are good news because people are realizing they still need to work for this."

Plus Res 2000 has Obama up by 4% overall.

Polls don't mean much but you are correct in that they can be used to up contributions and get people motivated.

I think the polling methods favor the Repubs unfairly, but there is going to be a lot of voter fraud by the Repubs, too. So, in an odd way, I think the polling methods could end up being close to the election results for that reason.

Even with his hefty convention bounce, McBush is still either behind or tied in many polls. His leads are shrinking in the other polls - and those polls are also the ones that favor Repubs the most.

The momentum is clearly shifting to Obama - remember when Obama went after McBush strongly at the Dem convention? People seemed to respond to that.

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Both SUSA and Research 2000 are using different sampling methodologies. Gallup and Rasmussen are using a 5% Democratic advantage (i.e. 5% more Democrats than Republicans) and SUSA and R2K are using a 9% advantage in their models. Gallup changed its model coincident with the Republican convention citing an increase in voter ID to Republican. 9% is far more similar to the 2004 voter populations than 5% is - there is no way that there are only 5% more Democrats than Republicans registered to vote!

Very nice analysis. The math is inescapable. We are truly seeing a generational and political shift that is happening completely under the radar. I can't wait to finally see what the primary trends have already made clear.

What you're going to see is a huge electoral foot aimed squarely at a slimmer, trimmer Republican ass. It's gonna be beautiful.

Speaking of slimming and trimming, I'm really working hard to lose a few pounds so I'll look good dancing naked in the street on election day, not to mention joining the rest of the world on Bush's last day in office. What a frikking worldwide celebration that's going to be.

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Have I told you lately that I love you? Have I told you there's no one else above you?

But seriously, I am feeling much better this week than last week. Last week, I was mostly angry with Obama and Biden for treating Palin as a serious pick, and thereby allowing a positive narrative to be set. And I was mad that they couldn't stop complimenting McCain and Palin. But I am off the ledge.

I just want to wake up and have it be Nov. 4th. I am so sick of this election I could scream.

You might have to go to sleep until election day. I, too, look at these polls and know, just know, they are so freaking wrong. And I have no problem believing they're being manipulated -- by exactly whom or what doesn't matter. We certainly know that the MSM pushed a false narrative during the primaries in order to keep ratings up. No reason to think they're doing anything different right now.

Exactly. We need to understand how they are manipulating us and actively push back.

It amazes me that anyone is fooled by this shit when we know how it is done. That is just human nature, I suppose, which makes a true evolution of societal thought such a hard goal to achieve.

Orwell was too obvious. Our enslavement was more subtle.

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"What you're going to see is a huge electoral foot aimed squarely at a slimmer, trimmer Republican ass. It's gonna be beautiful."

Just like 2006, I think. Gotta watch that voter fraud, though.

It's also a little bit of, "careful what you wish for" though, as Bush and his minions have run the economy into the ground, F'ed up the military, and put us Trillions of dollars in debt to China just to name a few of the Bush greatest hits.

It is Voter Suppression that the Republicans are pushing ( caging, fake mail ballots, lack of voting machines, Diebold manipulation).

The Republicans claim voter fraud - as in dead democrats voting, of voting twice.

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A whole lot of what went on in the Justice Dept. and the fired Federal Attorneys scandal was nominally done to root out voter fraud, while they were joyfully caging Blacks who were deployed to combat zones. The stories of voter fraud in the 2000 and 2004 elections had to be squelched. Much the same as Senator McCain busily started writing maverickish election funding reform bills after getting censured for his role in the Keating Five S&L scandal.
Basic Nixon CYA strategy. People might not have noticed if they hadn't tried to cover their tracks.

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"It is Voter Suppression that the Republicans are pushing" It's all voter fraud to me.

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We know the Democrats outnumber the Republicans this year.

If you don't know exactly where (state, district) those Democrats live, you really don't know much of anything that matters.

What does it matter what I know? It's what the Obama campaign knows that counts. And they know all of what you're talking about and more.

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Hi,

I wanted to draw your attention to this important petition that I recently signed:

"Impeach Senator Barack Obama"
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e

I really think this is an important cause, and I'd like to encourage you to add your signature, too. It's free and takes less than a minute of your time.

Thanks!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e

Thanks. I'll need to wait until I'm in the mood to drop acid before it will make any sense, of course, but next time I'm as off my rocker as you clearly are, I promise I'll check it out.

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While I reeled through the Reagen years in shock and amazement, I still remember when I realized that the Republican party and its base had teetered off the edge into full-fledged insanity.

On election night 1992, California TV cut at one point to the state Republican headquarters in Orange County -- and behind the talking head, young activist types were holding up signs saying "Impeach Clinton." This was, of course, before Clinton had been inaugurated, so by definition, he could not possibly have committed the sort of political 'high crimes and misdemeanours' that impeachment is intended for.

In short, they were insane. It's sad to see how that tradition of florid delusion lives on.

Matthew? Is that you?

"Whereas: Senator Barack Obama is an admitted Illegal drug user and is believed to have used illegal drugs as recently as November 1999 or more recently. Mr. Obama has maintained contact with other admitted illegal drug users."

ROTF, LMAO! Stop it, my side hurts!

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What does it matter what I know? It's what the Obama campaign knows that counts. And they know all of what you're talking about and more.

No, they don't know all of that. They're working on it, but they don't know it yet. They need YOU to figure it out. They need you to go down to the campaign office, or sign up at their neighbor to neighbor feature, and start making phone calls. Trust me, there's a hell of a lot more work that needs to be done by every one of Obama's supporters before he can get elected. I know it seems like Obama has an army of volunteers working for him, and that you can't help, but you can and you should. Everyone should. Just spend an hour making calls.

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Kittybunny -
And you know where the biggest electoral surprise might be - try Texas . There are whole bunch of new voter down here -we might in the end not win the Lone Star State for Obama - but we will hand "Big John " Coryn his neocon ass on a platter come November ..
Ah yes Christmas comes six weeks early this year !

And there's still a month and a half to go.

Nice post. The numbers are as of the end of Aug. There are 2 months left. Obama could receive another 150 million during that time.

1) Republicans lie every campaign. They don't wait until they're worried.

2) McCain won the experience argument. Now he's run over the "change" argument. And the "most American" argument. Now we're at financial meltdown - will McCain win this one as well?

3) Polls assign "likely voters", including identifying percentages of Reps and Dems. The number of people identifying themselves as Republicans has risen substantially since the beginning of August, starting long before the conventions.

4) McCain is getting matching funds, so only has to raise half as much. And the GOP party is adding 2 seconds of "issues content" to his TV ads so they can split the cost 50-50. So basically McCain can get on TV for 1/4 the contributions as Obama. 2+2=4.

According to "pollsters" I am not a likely voter this year and wouldn't be able to call if I was one. I wouldn't place too much stock in polls.

The number of registered republicans has been dropping for years. The number of Independents has gone through the roof and democrats are picking up new recruits as well.

Not sure what your problem is these days, but they probably have a medication that can help with the depression and paranoia.

So, in other words, we're doomed we're doomed if only we'd listened to you and nominated Hillary. Go it. Thanks.

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Speaking of flying under the radar: in this case switching from land lines to cell phones. In 2004 in Metro Atlanta we had two residential phone books, A-L and M-Z; each was about two inches thick. Today we have one residential phone book, A-Z, and it's not quite one inch thick. Metro Atlanta has about five million people, a number large enough in an area culturally and socioeconomically diverse enough to be representative of a fair cross section of the country as a whole. Extrapolating the national trend from our local trend, one could assume that land-line pollsters have access to perhaps only a quarter of the electorate.

I think this is relevant. It's akin to the infamous Literary Digest poll in 1936, which was skewed in the direction of people who owned cars and had phones. Ten million were polled, 2.3 million responded, predicting a Landon victory over Roosevelt by 57 to 43 percent. Roosevelt won with 62% of the vote. You're onto something, I think. The listed land-line contingent is a reverse-skew, in this context!

Yeh But the same thing was said about cell phones when Kerry lost.

Obama needs to be UP over 5% in the pools to overcome the Diebold "effect"

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I hear you about 2004. Two things. The first is, this is one of those things that people will be saying until one day it's actually true, but we have no idea whether that will be this year or four years from now (assuming that the pollsters don't figure out how to work around it).

The second thing is, what was also noteworthy about 2004 is how subterranean the Bush groundgame was. Kerry's was pathetic. I know, because I tried to be part of it. My sense is that Palin was chosen to try to recreate that ground game, but the problem is, it's hard to pull off in such short order.

So I don't know. I worry a lot, but I am trying to direct my anxiety to actually useful GOTV and registration efforts.

Bill - great point - I am in Atlanta and you are right. I don't call anyone I know on a landline and I am 55.

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Also, a big share of those landlines belong to older (over 70) and more conservative voters. But if you get up in to the late 80's and 90's those people lived thru the Great Depression and may be more inclined to vote Democratic. There are a lot more of those old people then there used to be and one thing they absolutely hate is a liar.

It's the ultimate game of lowering expectations. It's fantastic. Not until a week after the election will people understand just HOW Obama won the election by a landslide. I can't wait for it, it will be a wonderful day and prove the grassroots are here to stay and Obama camp can be touted as the most effecient campaign of all time.

Hillary was beating him with 1/3 the money for the last 2 months. Obama had record expenditures in July, and he's still polling beneath McCain. Not sure how you're measuring efficiency, amount raised and spent or most bang for the buck or least obvious chance for success followed by (hopefully) victory?

And careful, people will attack you if they think you're tanning too much.

Tannin, if she eats a five star resturants, and if she wears 800 dollar shoes, none of that matters to me. The only thing that TRULY matters is newly registered voters and amount of money being raised. Those two facets of the game are going in Obama's way TWO FOLD. I will make sure to make a special blog just for you come the 5th.

Boy you really are an obnoxious one, aren't you?

I've got my eye on you.

LMAO are you serious? Are you going to go the primary route? Obama stopped going negative MONTHS beofre the campaign ended and the moment that happened Hill started making ground. O knew exactly what he was doing, and in doing so Hillary is now 20 million dollars in DEBT. However I will let old flames die because your asinine argument isn't one that holds ANY merit whatsoever.

Secondly, I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION FUNDS. Look at my post and see ONE WORD that mentions money or funds. EXACTLY. Keep trying though, you might come up with something intelligent eventually.

I asked how you were measuring efficiency, and gave 3 possibilities. You gave a 4th - that obviously Obama was able to coast, so that made him efficient. I guess you're right. What's he doing now? Roller skating on Venice Beach?

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You're probably right about some of the polls using non-representative samples but the trend they show is still meaningfull even if the final tabulation is not .

I think we should stop worrying about the polls for now. They are returned to the pre-convention numbers. We live in polarizing times.

Here's the latest September 16 poll from Research 2000: Obama 48 McCain 44.

Obama IS rising in the polls again and moving ahead. The McCain campaign has probably peaked.

So the behind in the polls news is starting to become old news.

Obama is also winning the ground game and the new voters game, things that don't show in the polls. Virginia polls yesterday were very good news and no one mentions them.

Obama haters just won't admit anything good about him, but in the polls Obama now scores better favorables than any of the candidates and Palin is falling fast, very fast.

I gave him a C+ for his convention speech, a high grade from me. Just not sure what his plan is for faltering in the electoral votes fight.

Your Crazy - Obama acceptance speech was an A++

McLostInSpace crapped his depends and tossed a Hail Mary pass aka Sara Palin

We been talkin' about Palin ever since the fire went out, ooh ooh oh Palin.... [Nancy Sinatra, Jackson in case you didn't know]

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I just want to throw in a comment about how true this post is.
My husband and I live in Virginia and we are both first time voters at ages 31 and 33. We have never really cared much about voting and thought "vote for the lesser evil", I'd rather not vote. This year we ran to go register because for the first time in our lives we have been inspired. GO OBAMA!!!!

First, the absurdly obvious: NO campaign risks lying about their opponent unless they're already in full desperation mode.

Er. Were you alive in 2004?

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If you truly want to know why the Sexist Pig Oilbama is sinking like a rock in the polls, besides the fact that Oilbama voted with Bush and Cheney and supported their Energy Bill which gave away 9 Billion to Big Oil, this article will help clarify it for you.

One of Them and One of Us
by Pat Buchanan
One wonders: What did Sarah Palin ever do to inspire the rage and bile that exploded on her selection by John McCain? What is there either in this woman’s record or resume to elicit such feline ferocity?

What did we know of her when she was introduced?
That she was a mother of five who had brought into this world a baby boy with Down syndrome, thus living her Christian beliefs. That she was a small-town conservative who had risen from mayor of Wasilla (Pop. 9,700) to be governor of a state twice the size of Texas.
That she was a reformer who had dethroned an Old Boys’ Network by dumping a sitting Republican governor. That she had taken on Big Oil, taxed the companies and returned the money in $1,200 checks to every citizen of Alaska. And that she had cut a deal with Canada to build a pipeline to bring natural gas to her fellow Americans.
And, oh, yes. She was “Sarah Barracuda” — a fierce high school athlete, a runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant, a Feminist for Life and lifetime member of the NRA. Introduced by McCain, she praised Hillary Clinton and pledged to finish her work by smashing through the glass ceiling in which Hillary had made 18 million cracks.
What, in any or all of this, is there to justify the feral attacks within minutes of her introduction? What had she done to cause this outburst? Answer: absolutely nothing.
No. Sarah Palin is not resented for what she has done, but for who she is: a Christian conservative who believes unborn children are gifts of God, even those with birth defects, and have a God-given right to life.
Normally, the press is reluctant to rummage into the private lives of public servants, unless their conduct affects their duties or they preach virtues they hypocritically do not practice.
Yet, no sooner was Palin introduced, than the media went berserk over the news that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant. As one in three births in America is out-of-wedlock and Hollywood celebrates this lifestyle, why did The New York Times and The Washington Post splash this “news” on page one above the fold?
How does Bristol Palin’s pregnancy disqualify Sarah Palin to be vice president? Why is it even relevant?
They did it because they thought it would damage Sarah Palin in the eyes of a Christian community they do not comprehend.
So out of bounds was the media that Obama, in an act of decency, declared Palin’s family off limits and reminded the media that he was himself born to a teenage single mom.
If one would wish to see the famous liberal double standard on naked display, consider.
Palin’s daughter was fair game for a media that refused to look into reports that John Edwards, a Democratic candidate for president, was conducting an illicit affair with a woman said to be carrying his child and cheating on his faithful wife Elizabeth, who has incurable cancer. That was not a legitimate story, but Bristol Palin’s pregnancy is?
Why did the selection of Sarah Palin cause a suspension of all standards and a near riot among a media that has been so in the tank for Barack even “Saturday Night Live” has satirized the infatuation?
Because she is one of us — and he is one of them.
Barack and Michelle are affirmative action, Princeton, Columbia, Harvard Law. She is public schools and Idaho State. Barack was a Saul Alinsky social worker who rustled up food stamps. Sarah Palin kills her own food.
Michelle has a $300,000-a-year sinecure doing PR for a Chicago hospital. Todd Palin is a union steelworker who augments his income working vacations on the North Slope. Sarah has always been proud to be an American. Michelle was never proud of America — until Barack started winning.
Barack has zero experience as an executive. Sarah ran her own fishing fleet, was mayor for six years and runs the largest state in the union. She belongs to a mainstream Christian church. Barack was, for 15 years, a parishioner at Trinity United and had his daughters baptized by Pastor Jeremiah Wright, whose sermons are saturated in black-power, anti-white racism and anti-Americanism.
Sarah is a rebel. Obama has been a go-along, get-along cog in the Daley Machine. She is Middle America. Barack, behind closed doors in San Francisco, mocked Middle Americans as folks left behind by the global economy who cling bitterly to their Bibles, bigotries and guns.
Barack has zero foreign policy experience. Palin runs a state that is home to anti-missile, missile and air defense bases facing the Far East, commands the Alaska National Guard and has a soldier-son heading for Iraq.
Barack, says the National Journal, has the most left-wing voting record in the Senate, besting Socialist Bernie Sanders. Palin’s stances read as though they were lifted from Reagan’s 1980 “no pale pastels” platform. And this is what this media firestorm is all about.

Hey, troll, don't copy and paste full articles. Just give us the link. Asshole.

That's nothing. You missed the time that DemBillC posted a laundry list of 63 Obama "lies" which it had copied from somewhere. Twice in the same thread. That feat helped it to win the Troll You'd Most Like to Have a Beer With award.

The polls are crap and Pat Buchanan is insane, using things Obama never said as a way to make an argument against him.

He is another symptom of our decaying culture and bankrupt morality, where lies are truth and the truth is debatable. Like you are, based on the hopelessly muddled and incoherent rant above.

You are no democrat. Classic neoconservative troll. Enjoy it while it lasts, because the gravy train is ready to derail.

Off your meds again, I see.

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Hmmmm...Pat Buchanan...yeah, he's credible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQuva8gcEA

If the polls are tied on Nov. 3 -- and we have something reasonably close to a free and fair election -- we're looking at a landslide on Nov. 4th.

My concern is not the polls but vote suppression tactics, particularly in swing states.

Voter suppression. Exactly.

Third: the Obama campaign has registered 11 million new voters so far. 11 million new voters who have never voted before. 11 million new voters who are now flying almost completely under the radar. No statistical prediction or electoral map can accommodate them. The pundits don't know how they're going to affect the race, and the pollsters don't know how to include them in the polls.

Don't assume that the polls are wrong in favor of Obama. There are methods for predicting new voters, and the pollsters use them. Some examples from the primary:

[Dick Bennett, president of American Research Group] says he tweaks his screening process as campaigns progress. Because Obama is bringing so many new voters to the polls, Bennett is now including voters who say their likelihood to vote is 7 or higher, not just the traditional 9 and 10. The result: His screen is more favorable to Obama than some others.

HuffPo 2/17/08

Ran a poll Feb 20 using a new turnout model. Anyone who claims to know what Democratic turnout will be is lying, but analysis of earlier contests indicates many new primary voters resulting in higher proportions of women, African-American and younger voters. My previous polling has relied on historical turnout models and a sample of voters with past primary voting history. That worked fine when it was assumed that Texas would vote long after the nominations were effectively decided. For this round of polling, I have made several modifications. First, I have added general election voters who haven't voted in past primaries to the sample. I have added an oversample of young voters, not filtered by voting history. I have also added an oversample for certain areas with a high percentage of African-Americans, but historically low primary turnout. Finally, I have increased weightings for young voters and African-American voters.

IVR Polls 2/21/08

In fact, there's even risk that if they tweak the turnout models too aggressively, they could overestimate the support for Obama. Remember that in the primary, the polls were wrong in favor of Clinton about as often as they were wrong in favor of Obama.

That said, the polls mean little right now. It's too early, and conventions always create bounces.

Ghengis RULES!

The fact is, though is that there is a lot of variance between the polls created by the different tweaks to their turnout models each poll is making as they try to figure out what the frak is going on this year. There is a pronounced house effect in each of the dailies--Rasmussen trends most Republican, followed by Gallup which trends a little more Republican, followed by Diego Hotline which trends a little more Democratic, followed by Kos/Res2K which trends most Democratic. The difference between them is only three to six points, but in a close one--and they're all close ones, aren't they?--it makes a big difference. Pollster.com says, not to worry--run a regression analysis on them all and the truth of the larger trend will reveal itself, but only within three to six points.

What would make me crazy if I let it is the knowledge that one of the polls probably has its turnout model tweaked correctly and is telling us something pretty close to what's really going on, but we won't know which one that is until after the election. And that means that, in a real sense, in the absense of foreknowledge of which of these polls is correct this year, all of them taken together are basically of the opposite of information.

Co-sign to both NCSteve and Genghis. The polls are not doing a great job of capturing new registrants and they are missing those who are not tethered to their landlines.

BUT, that doesn't mean the information that they are providing is useless. It means that there's a small bias built in there. Note that when interpreting the results, but don't conclude that the polls indicate a horserace, when in fact it will be a landslide, or you will likely be sorely disappointed. If you look at the reports that have come out from GOTV efforts - in VA, for example - the best that they are hoping for is that the new registrants could make a difference of 1 or 2% in the final tally. It's about maybe being the tipping point in States that are expected to be really, really close.

SO - don't ignore the polls, they're telling us something that we should be aware of. Think of them as barometers. Keep in mind that State data tend to lag behind the national data. And watch those swing States, carefully.

And again - if you're near a swing State - get out there and talk to people or get on the phone. If it comes down to 1 or 2% on November 4, your efforts could make the difference.

Don't assume that the polls are wrong in favor of Obama.

My only assumption is that the pollsters aren't at all sure what's going on and they're making educated (or uneducated) guesses based upon educated (or uneducated) guesses, and nothing more. There's a campaign running beneath the campaign and, just as in the primary season, I believe Obama's people have access to numbers that the pollsters can only wonder about. After a primary season of wildly unreliable polls, I'd say there's good reason to distrust the pollsters.

I don't know what the pollsters know. I only know that they know more than you or I know. Therefore, while they may be wrong, they have a better chance of accounting for the new registrations than you or I do. Thus, while you should expect the polls to err, expecting them to err in a particular direction is wishful thinking.

Also, I'm not sure what information the Obama pollsters have that the unaffiliated pollsters don't. I believe that most states make the number of new registrations public b/c I have seen news reports about them. In any case, all that the campaign knows is how many people have registered through the campaign, which is not the total.

Basically what I read that to say is the pollsters are deciding, with little(no) scientific support, a random weighting formula based on how they think things work "today" for each poll they conduct. This methodology could easily allow individual results to be tweaked in the direction of a desired outcome, no? Maybe pollsters are just too honest for that sort of thing?

Also, I don't see how you propose to do any trending (having traditional statistical validity) when there is absolutely no consistency of methodology between the samples. Are you proposing that the polls today are tracking what they were a month ago - even though the demographic makeup of their sample has been changed? If not, then how do we know which method was more accurate?

More importantly, how do you combine the poll results from today with last month's data generated using decidedly different methodology? It seems impossible to extract the information that polling over time is supposed to provide - there is no mathematical validity. The numbers are BS.

If you put faith in today's polls, it's the same thing as putting faith in creation; there is nothing in the world of science to back up your belief - you've got to really trust the preacher.

Who says I put faith in the polls? I'm just saying that people who think they know better than pollsters should, no offense, show some humility. However ignorant the mainstream pollsters are, they are not as ignorant as us. And however biased they are, they are not as biased as us. Moreover, their businesses live and die by the accuracy of their predictions, so they are highly incentivized to do whatever they can to maximize the chances that they'll get it right.

In short, the polls will probably get it wrong, but they at least stand a better chance of getting it right than you or me.

That is some lame-ass trolling. I'm sure its shown up on a dozen other sites, as well.

Love your post. And I believe you.

The challenge: making sure those 11 million-plus are actually able to get to the polls and VOTE.

I know the campaign is on top of this. At least, I hope so. I bet the Republicans are going to try to confuse the new voters, and send them away from the polls, as per usual.

I think Ohio could be tough.

btw -

The bunny ears are absolutely fab!

I've seen p.o.'ed cats before, and that is one p.o.'ed cat...

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Does anyone know if this is true?

Polls are conducted by phone and since regulations forbid polling to cell phones, the 18-35-year-old demographic is underrepresented.

Heard this at a Drinking Liberally meeting but have not seen any MSM or alternative press about it.

Hold on Rabbit. I thought you said this spring that those same polls were accurate? Which is it? Are we having a flip-flop moment?

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He's having an idiot savant moment.

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My question is this: Is our campaign sending each one of those people a paper, absentee ballot? and a stamp? It is the only way around the repub ace in the hole--voter suppression, not enough ballot machines at key precincts, traffic jams, challenges at the check-in table, traffic jams, etc.

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I don't agree that lies backfire. They worked darned well for McCain during the GOP primaries, and McCain is clearly counting on them working again.

Republican voters either believe the lies or guffaw along with them, and chortle at how McCain is punking Obama. Obama's message is drowned out, day after day, as McCain dominates each cable news cycle. Voters in the center are either turned off or, worse yet, gravitate towards McCain, when Obama seems weak or defensive. And the so-called low information voters soak up the misunformation.

Example? My 9 year old son came home from school telling how one of his classmates was holding forth on how Obama was responsible for high gas prices, since he "wouldn't let anyone drill for oil."

Out of the mouths of babes ...

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re the new, young voters: they are notoriously unreliable when it comes to actually voting. I recommend that they (and probably everybody) vote by absentee ballot in advance. It's paper, for one thing. For another, it will circumvent the problems of very long lines, bad weather, faulty machines, schedule conflicts, etc..
Of course, the various methods of voter suppression we're already hearing are in the works are a major concern.
Young voters are also very fickle. If they're disillusioned in any way, they won't show up.
Cell phones may not be the factor once thought.
But I believe Caller I.D. may, in fact, be affecting polling results. Many people, myself included, don't answer a call from a number I don't recognize.
There's no way to know what will happen. We all have to keep working, as various earlier posters have said. This election may be the most important one in our lifetimes.

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