"You besmirch Obama's efforts when you do this. If you emulated him, then Palin's speech would have been in kind because Obama's base would have set that tone."

While I agree that a number of Obama supporters go overboard, I don't agree with your reasoning that Palin would have toned it down had these supporters taken a constructive approach. You give the Republicans, McCain & Palin much too much credit. Palin's speech was written well before she was chosen and tweaked to fit her. This was planned by the McCain campaign and represents the same old Rovian (his disciples now run the McCain campaign), divisive politics that most of us have come to dislike.

Tonight I listened to Romney, Huckabee, Gulianni and Palin. I heard so many attacks on different things and nothing specific from any of them on how they will take this country forward beyond "drill baby drill". The democratic convention was so much more inclusive. Tonight I heard mocking of the upper east coast "elite" (from Romney no less), the media, and community organizers. God forbid if you are urban, especially if either poor or well educated because either is something to be scoffed at. Ms. Palin looked down on the community organizers, who work hard advocating for the poor in communities that have much larger populations than a small town in Alaska were openly mocked and laughed at. Her experience as a mayor (who hired someone to manage the small town shortly after she was hired)is so much more important.

Double standard:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/781013.html

The only difference between her speech and every other speech at a Republican convention since about 1968 was that hers was superlative in its nastiness. The original commenter has obviously bought into the conservative (the media hates us) talking points he's heard most of his adult life . . .

This couldn't be stupider.

It really couldn't. This is proof that trolls are shameless -

how stupid are you prepared to look in defending this idiotic and surreal situation?

Mike- Good call for the most part, but don't forget that this site mounted an immediate and spirited objection to the rumor-spreading. There is a lot to object to in Palin's record and I believe that the issues will return front and center. What is not true, absolutely not true, is that Democrats, Obama supporters, or the people on this site "hate" people from rural communities. The worst that can be said is that some people don't get them. But let me ask a question: do people in rural communities "get" people who grew up in cities? Why is it imperative that one side respect and know the other without equivalent expectations? Doesn't all of this maybe miss the overall point, that these distinctions and recriminations are primarily intended to divide the electorate in a way convenient for a national election?

Why am I not surprised by the lack of strategy here and in the McCain camp.

You treat wingnuts and party faithful cheering as a "victory".

No wonder the rightwing clowns botched Iraq. They only care about feelgood shortterm tactics. Longterm strategic goals are above their heads.

WOW WOW WOW.

Who knew that TPM was so powerful. All the Late Night Talk shows have been following TPM's orders.

Sure they have. YUP! YUP!

The Republican Convention is under way. The theme for tonight's Republican Convention is, 'Who is John McCain?' Tomorrow night's theme is, 'Who forgot to check if the Vice President's daughter is pregnant?'" --Conan O'Brien

"It's true, John McCain's running mate, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, has revealed that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant. Palin said, 'We should never have introduced her to John Edwards.'" --Conan O'Brien

"By the way, here's good news, ladies and gentlemen: the Palin family crisis that we were talking about on Sunday and Monday, that has been solved now, and, today, the baby is being adopted by Angelina Jolie." --David Letterman

"And you've got to love this: Sarah Palin is an avid hunter. An avid hunter. A vice president who likes guns? Well, what could go wrong there?" --David Letterman

"It was an unplanned pregnancy, but the Palins say their daughter will marry the young man. He's a fellow high school student of hers. His name is Levi Johnston. They even found his MySpace page, which they pulled down immediately, but before they did we found out that he's a 'f***ing redneck,' is what he said, and another quote from him, 'I don't want kids.' Remember when the Republicans compared Barack Obama to Britney Spears? Now they've got their their own Jamie Lynn." --Jimmy Kimmel

"And how are you going to be the vice president of the United States with five kids to take care of? She's got a four-month-old of her own, she's about to become a grandmother, and she's partnered with John McCain. How many diapers can one woman possibly change?" --Jimmy Kimmel

"Some people are saying that McCain picked Sarah Palin to appeal to women who supported Hillary Clinton. This is crazy. You can't just replace Hillary Clinton with another woman. Bill tried that, it didn't work out." --Craig Ferguson

"John McCain's VP pick is the governor of Alaska, a unknown hockey mom named Sarah Palin that no one ever heard of. The only other job she had in politics was the mayor of a small town known as Wasilla, Alaska, and now she has the opportunity to be on a ticket opposite of Barack Obama, the first black man she's ever seen." –Bill Maher

"This isn't a presidential ticket, this is a sitcom. The maverick and the MILF." –Bill Maher

"Are you kidding me, the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska? Yeah, that's who you want in the White House during a time of crisis. When she got a phone call at 3 in the morning, it was because a moose had gotten in the garbage can." –Bill Maher

"I think this is pertinent because McCain has been running this campaign based on 'we're at war, it's a dangerous world out there. The democrats don't get that. I John McCain am the only one standing between the blood-thirsty Al Qaedas and you. But if I die, this stewardess can handle it.'" –Bill Maher

"When they were vetting her for this job, like three seconds ago, she said, quote, I'm not making this up, 'What is it exactly that the VP does every day?' Let me field that for you, Sarah. They start wars, they enrich their friends, they subvert the Constitution, and they shoot people in the face. That's what the vice president does." –Bill Maher

"Did you see Sarah Palin standing next to McCain at the podium the other day when he introduced her? Didn't it look like one of those commercials where the daughter is trying to find a nice home to put Dad in? 'We'd like someplace quiet.'" --Jay Leno

"Here's the amazing part: back in 1984, Sarah Palin actually came second in the Miss Alaska beauty pageant. Now she could be vice president. You know what that means? For the first time in history, a beauty pageant contestant might actually bring about world peace. They've talked about it for years; here's one that could do it!" --Jay Leno

"And, of course, the big news: John McCain has selected Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate. Apparently, he was turned down by his first choice, Bonnie Hunt." --David Letterman

"And McCain felt what this nation really needs now is a vice president who looks like Tina Fey." --David Letterman

"But we're learning more and more about Sarah Palin, boy, are we. Listen to this: it turns out she and her entire family once had a chair-throwing brawl on 'Jerry Springer.'" --David Letterman

"Well there's a lot of controversy about it. Apparently she told McCain about this weeks ago, but what happened was, I guess she said it into his bad ear. So he didn't realize." --Jay Leno

"But, despite that, Republicans think she's a pretty good running mate for McCain. They feel she can bring in women voters, she's got a good conservative voting record, and she doesn't mind eating dinner at 4:30, and that's important." --Jay Leno

"Most of the gossip this week is centered around Sarah Palin, McCain's controversial choice for vice president. Some question whether a mother of five who's only been running the state of Alaska for two years is the right person to fill out a ticket fronted by a 175-year-old man, and it's especially strange considering the emphasis that Senator McCain has put on national-security experience. Three years ago, Sarah Palin was the mayor of a town with 9,000 people in it. Nevermind national security, they barely have mall security in a town of that size." --Jimmy Kimmel

"But Cindy McCain, for one, points out that the governor, Palin, does in fact have some national-security experience [Video: Cindy McCain pointing out that Alaska is close to Russia]. Right, she's so close she can walk right up there and watch them like a neighborhood-watch captain or something." --Jimmy Kimmel

"Also, it's now come out that Palin's 17-year-old daughter is five months pregnant. McCain claims he knew that when he picked her, but, I don't know, this whole thing, it just seems too much like the 'Maury Povich Show' to have been planned. At this point, I'm not sure I trust McCain to pick a fantasy-football team, to be honest with you." --Jimmy Kimmel

I once saw Rush Limbaugh hold up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, age 13, and Buddy, and ask his audience which is the family dog in the White House?

Republicans may love Sarah Palin, but I think Sarah Palin is a joke. She won't support sex education, but it's ok for her 17 year old daughter to have a baby. This is taken for wisdom? Are any of her children planning to get an education? Are we talking about evidence of leadership qualities or popularity and identity politics?

No, McCain's campaign adviser said this was not a campaign of issues, but of reactions to personalities. And they troop Levi Johnston into the limelight. You really need to reread their talking points of personalism, anti-issue, Britney-politics. You're on the wrong page, claiming their campaign is about substance, at least by their own lights.

Have they mentioned the economy yet this week?

This post is at the level of you-insulted-my-candidate-so-I-vote-based-on-my-disdain-for-your-puerile-blogging. Knock yourself out. Hope your navel tastes good, you're staring at it, not the world in which real people pick candidates based on issues.

poster you are such a whiner! this time you couldn't blame obama and his campaign so you want to shoulder blame on TPM? your vp candidate is scandalous period! last night proved she is mean-spirited, lacks class, lacks sound judgement, is a bush lackey just like mccain, weak on the issues, strong on negativity and division...

now, i am waiting for an apology from you for their treatment of michelle obama, you bigoted hypocrite! michelle is not on anyone's ticket, but vp big mouth is!!!

The suggestion that Sarah Palin had license to mock Barack Obama and Joe Biden as a result of postings on TPM or any other media is simply irrational. Her speech was insulting to the intelligence of the listeners and was clearly calculated to entertain the base as opposed to introducing Palin or her positions. What she has done is verify that she lacks the political judgment to realize that her attacks on Obama would reflect negatively on her when they were done is such close proximity to his statement that her family was off limits. She has been the governor of Alaska for 20 months. Alaska is the smallest state by population and has fewer residents than the Cleveland, Ohio metropolitan area. She was the Mayor of a City with so few residents that it would not qualify as a city in most states, but would instead be considered a village. How does this resume qualify her to be the VP. Moreover, how does is qualify her to mock others. I am fairly certain that her speech last night will open the floodgates of mocking, condescending and sarcastic comments about her and Grandpa McCain.

Having called Palin's pick months ago, it was intriguing to watch this woman so comfortable in her own skin, deliver the speech of her lifetime, or at least of a generation, by a Republican woman.

Even if McCain loses in November, it will be a more respectable and diginified loss. She is a "pitbull with lipstick." Which by definition should disqualify her from being a heartbeat away from the most influential office in the Free World. Pitbulls attack, maim, kill because they are trained to. Not because they must.

Just as an angry generation can not bring about peace, a divisive, mocking, and deceitful campaign can't deliver change for the common good.

We can do better.

It's absurd to blame posters on sites like this for causing Palin's tirade last night. The "attacks" against her had nothing to do with it. Playing the victim has been the plan all along. It's a strategy, not a reaction.

Don't fall for the garbage. The Republicans want you to be outraged. They want to lead you by your outrage to the polls in November. It's a sham.

As much as I enjoy and appreciate the way the netroots has democratized, if you will, the process of political analysis, it troubles me that so many people are willing to irrationally conflate the behavior of the blogosphere with that of the campaign. I've found some of the comments that have appeared here and elsewhere on the Web on Palin's appearance, family, pastimes, etc., to be sexist in the extreme, and highly distasteful, not to mention irrelevant. I've also seen, and appreciated, innumerable comments that focus on her flip-flopping, her possible abuses of power, her narrow-mindedness, and other matters that are directly relevant to her suitability to be vice president.

In neither case did I think to myself, "Wow, Obama's supporters are saying all these things, so the Obama campaign must be directly responsible for them," because that would be, well, idiotic. And so is basing your vote, in part or in full, on whether or not the candidate's fans and supporters make dumb comments on the Internet. Staying "on point with the issues," I see a Republican convention full of speeches like Giuliani's and Palin's: bankrupt in terms of real ideas and viable policy solutions, in extremely stark contrast to the speeches that the Democratic candidates gave.

"Palin just returned your serve"?

Snicker.

You sound just like the caveman playing tennis against Billy Jean King in the GEICO commercial.

Good luck. It's a rather large country with lots of people that get wrapped up in elections (probably myself included) and behave in ways that do not reflect their day-to-day character, especially when granted relative anonymity online. As long as Obama stays classy at the top of the ticket, McCain and Palin are guilty of the "straw blogger" fallacy when they respond to something nasty online that they found from some random person claiming to be a Dem. That's not to say that you're not correct that some folks supporting Dems have lost their bearings a bit. I just think that given human nature that's a sort of inevitable thing. If Obama manages to stay classy and wins this thing, it'll be ratcheted back a bit by his good example. But it's a permanent part of our discourse and so likely will be the "straw blogger" fallacy of dredging some nasty post and generalizing to "see, all Dems/Reps are horrible people".

So apparently the election is no longer between John McCain and Barack Obama, it's between Sarah Palin and Internet Message Boards?

If the most important thing facing the person running to become the backup for the most powerful person on the planet, in giving her nationally televised speech addressing 39 million Americans, is giving back as good as she got for some mean-spiritedness by a few hundred private citizens on a website the overwhelming majority of Americans have never heard of...? Then these are some very small politics indeed.

So apparently the election is no longer between John McCain and Barack Obama, it's between Sarah Palin and internet message boards?

If the most important thing facing the person running to become the backup for the most powerful person on the planet, in giving her nationally televised speech addressing 39 million Americans, is giving back as good as she got for some mean-spiritedness by a few hundred private citizens on a website the overwhelming majority of Americans have never heard of...? Then these are some very small politics indeed.

I'm all for striving for more dignity and leaving tacky, sexist, Jerry-Springer-Show-style attacks out of discussions on this board. To the extent that your post asks us to use a little more class when discussing Palin, I applaud your effort. Sometimes we get carried away in our criticisms and engage in conversations that, upon later reflection, we might not be proud of. But that's life on a political blog--folks are free to say what they like here, subject to Josh Marshall's ultimate discretion.

However, I disagree with the main position in your post. I've never seen any evidence to support your assumption in the following excerpt:

You besmirch Obama's efforts when you do this, If you emulated him, then Palin's speech would have been in kind because Obama's base would have set that tone. If you emulated Obama here, and in other venues whose personal invective trickled up into some mainstream press outlets, then if Palin had made this same speech, it would not have been a woman fighting with courage, but the very unbelievable false caricature some of you are trying to make of her now -- shrill or sarcastic or whatever.

I understand your meaning here, but I believe a lot of the ugliness you believe "trickled up" into some mainstream outlets would have been there regardless of what we're saying on TPM. Further, I think Palin's speech will seem unnecessarily ugly and partisan to independent voters regardless of any initial tone you think we at TPM may have set.

Admonishing TPM bloggers, especially in this instance, to bear responsibility for Palin's (and other Republicans') tone in speeches is a bit of a stretch. Besides, there will probably always be some amount of ugly, personal snark on political blogs; and that includes TPM. Expecting bloggers to set the tone for political campaigns seems to be a losing proposition, IMO.

I'm all for striving for more dignity and leaving tacky, sexist, Jerry-Springer-Show-style attacks out of discussions on this board. To the extent that your post asks us to use a little more class when discussing Palin, I applaud your effort. Sometimes we get carried away in our criticisms and engage in conversations that, upon later reflection, we might not be proud of. But that's life on a political blog--folks are free to say what they like here, subject to Josh Marshall's ultimate discretion.

However, I disagree with the main position in your post. I've never seen any evidence to support your assumption in the following excerpt:

You besmirch Obama's efforts when you do this, If you emulated him, then Palin's speech would have been in kind because Obama's base would have set that tone. If you emulated Obama here, and in other venues whose personal invective trickled up into some mainstream press outlets, then if Palin had made this same speech, it would not have been a woman fighting with courage, but the very unbelievable false caricature some of you are trying to make of her now -- shrill or sarcastic or whatever.

I understand your meaning here, but I believe a lot of the ugliness you believe "trickled up" into some mainstream outlets would have been there regardless of what we're saying on TPM. Further, I think Palin's speech will seem unnecessarily ugly and partisan to independent voters regardless of any initial tone you think we at TPM may have set.

Admonishing TPM bloggers, especially in this instance, to bear responsibility for Palin's (and other Republicans') tone in speeches is a bit of a stretch. Besides, there will probably always be some amount of ugly, personal snark on political blogs; and that includes TPM. Expecting bloggers to set the tone for political campaigns seems to be a losing proposition, IMO.

So apparently the election is no longer between John McCain and Barack Obama, it's between Sarah Palin and internet message boards?

If the most important thing facing the person running to become the backup for the most powerful person on the planet, in giving her nationally televised speech addressing 39 million Americans, is giving back as good as she got for some mean-spiritedness by a few hundred private citizens on a website the overwhelming majority of Americans have never heard of...? Then these are some very small politics indeed.