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My 8 Year Old Son's Debate Analysis
I was 8 in 1960 and that was the first election I remember as my folks were huge JFK fans. My son saw Obama with me in May in Hickory NC and puts up with Dad the political junkie.
Last night Andrew asked me what a debate was and I told him it was like a boxing match with words. He thought that sounded pretty cool so we watched the debate.
I explained the scoring boxes on CNN and I asked him to simply give me his reactions so we would watch a segment, pause the DVR, talk for a minute and go back to the "Thrilla at Ole Miss".
He enjoyed the "fight" and I must say out of the mouths of babes come some pretty good analysis. As you might expect much of his reactions were visceral which is a huge part of how many people will react:
- "Why is McCain so mad?"
- "Why is he so old like Grammy?
- "Daddy, when McCain smiles like that ( ie-the smirk) I think he is really mad at Obama".
- "I don't like it when he acts like that."
- "Why isn't he looking at Obama? Barack looks at him. I think he is trying to be mean."
- "Obama looks better"
- "When McCain talks it bores me and when Obama talks it excites me."
I think that Andrew's observations are pretty astute and sum up how a lot of people will remember last night. In fact looking at Frank Luntz' NV focus group of independent voters looks like my son was spot on how they felt and 17/27 of them - 62% - thought Obama won....just the group we need to convince.
Comments (55)
Nice to hear about a reaction without a filter applied. Thanks for sharing this, but most of all - Thanks for being a GREAT Dad! I wish more parents would make politics relevant to their kids.
September 27, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Thanks for being a GREAT Dad! I wish more parents would make politics relevant to their kids."
Yeah, I was also eight in 1960, so that's makes you a little old to have an eight year old, you randy old goat. LOL
My parents didn't like JFK a bit, until he was dead, then suddenly he became a great President. I remember thinking how hypocritical that was (I was a little precocious with the vocab - we were 11 in 1963).
My youngest is 16. She didn't watch the debate.
Interesting perspective, thanks for writing it.
September 27, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I forgot to add that my daughter thinks Obama is "cute."
September 27, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was 4 in 1960. My Dad took me into the voting booth with him and had me pull the lever for JFK. He said that I could always tell people I voted for JFK.
September 27, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a thrill...I still have the campaign buttons and a PT 109 pin that we got at the local campaign office.
Kids do have an unfettered visceral sense that has yet to go away and I think a lot of undecideds will vote base on the touchy/feely things like we saw last nite - some visceral trust/distrust will sway them
September 27, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is beautiful. I have a six and four year-old. They already know they'll be going to the polls with me, but now they will be pushing the buttons together to vote for Obama. Can't wait.
And to John Nail, thanks for the post and for the forum for all of us watching this historic election through the eyes of children.
September 27, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
My Mom did the same for me. Unfortunately it was for Dukakis. I'd almost forgotten, tbh...
September 28, 2008 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've got a 26 yr old daughter from another life...
If any of you have small kids/grandkids there is a bio of Obama aimed at 1-3rd graders...it is a good learning tool
September 27, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was 12 in 1960. And from MA. So you can just imagine how popular JFK was around me at that age.
I think your so put it more clearly and sharply than I . . . I have a bit of that, "I can't quite put my finger on it." But I saw as central, from the outset to when Obams shook his hand after the debate, McLame's REFUSAL to acknowledge/look at Obama, even when jabbering about his "record" of "working across the aisle". He missed several opportunities to show how that's done.
Obama did not: he noted when he was in agreement with McSame -- then added, "However, were we differ . . . ."
McSame was simply snarling, nasty, and rude. And I think the majority of relatively unbiased viewers saw that. Obama won walking away, in double digits. And this was said to be McSame's advantage in topic.
Perhaps for the next two he'll have Palin stand in for him . . .
September 28, 2008 2:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's true, the body language and attitude have a big impact and even bigger when neither is a big winner or looser on content. Out of the mouths of babes indeed. Pretty astute little guy.
September 27, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
You need to get your son a job on cable news. His observations were much more rational than most of what I heard last night.
September 27, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
SchrodingersCat,
I like your darwinfish. I had one on my Explorer for a good while till an ignorant mechanic pried it off with a screwdriver. I guess he's eating solid food again by now.
September 27, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your son is a smart kid, and you are a great dad for watching with him and taking the time to talk about the issues!
Also, slightly off-topic, but I've become convinced that DVRs are the salvation of television. I went years without TV and what lured me back to cable was the wonder of the DVR. When the debate started last night, I was just finishing up making dinner and couldn't give it my full attention. I love that I could hit that magical pause button and experience the whole thing once I was ready.
September 27, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed! DVRs are so cool - pause, fast forward, go back to something missed (my hearing's not so great).
Debates make me nervous. I tend to get up and pace, leave the room, come back. My husband watched with our 9 year old granddaughter, but the only thing I picked up was her asking "who's the old guy JaJa?"
September 27, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
They make me nervous too. Haven't looked at why . . . I think it's because I can't get a word in at the liar.
September 28, 2008 2:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I too watched the Nixon Kennedy debates with my mom at age 8 and even though I did not know what the issues were about I did not like Nixon or trust him but I though JFK was cool. Nixon looked swarthy and sweaty, and didn't feel at ease. JFK outclassed him. He was coolly confident, and assertive. I could never understand people supporting Nixon after that. That was when I first learned that people are primates and that social behavior and body language trump substance every time. We are hard wired that way. It was Al Gore's and John Kerry's undoing.
Primates know instinctively about social intelligence--whether that is a weakness or a strength, it is a reality.
September 27, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was eight years old when Reagan was running for a second term. After seeing some of his campaign on TV (GOP convention i think) I wanted Reagan to win. Makes me wonder at which level of consciousness people decide what they want and politicians aim for. I also remember jamming to Michael Jackson's Beat It on the radio.
September 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a hopeful post. My anecdotal belief is that kids have a intuition for winners. As some one already said, kids have a unfiltered animalistic perspective.
September 27, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and that "inner child" from the body electorate was also attracted to Ronald Reagan and GWB.
Still hopeful?
Many people that ended up dictators also got their start as electrifying audiences.
It's fun when the 6 year old agrees with you because you feel justified -- but what of the occasions when he does not?
September 28, 2008 1:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have an almost 21-year-old son who is autistic, fairly highly functioning. However, emotionally, he is about 10 and he has grown up watching the Disney channel. During Black History month this year, one night at bedtime, he asked me about Harriet Tubman. I explained about the underground railroad and said, "Isn't it amazing that here we are in 2008 and a black man is running for president?" My son, who only speaks in one volume (loud), looked up at me from bed and said, softly, "We can change the world."
It turns out that he had been slipping over to watch CNN on occasion and had caught at least one of Barack's early ads. Sent chills up my spine.
I registered him to vote.
September 27, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
And he's likely to be a more thoughtful voter than one-third of the voting public. I'll bet he has a great bullshit detector.
And kudos to you for helping him understand what's important, whether it's the underground railroad or a black man becoming president. But I think he also gets that it's not just that there's a black man running for president, it's that there's a good, intelligent, forward-thinking man running for president who also is black.
September 27, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very touching.
September 28, 2008 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
sweetnonnie - you just brought me to tears!
September 27, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me, too.
September 27, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is awesome!!! Thx for sharing the story
September 27, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
that is so wonderful. thanks for that.
September 28, 2008 4:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
sweetnonie, I, too, am tearing up. My 17-year-old is disappointed she can't vote. I remember running home and telling my mom Kennedy was shot...I was 8. After RFK..., the defeat of Gore and Kerry, I was just about to give up any hope....
September 28, 2008 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was 14-15 when JFK was assassinated. That black-and-white televised weekend of dirge-paced funeral is still vivid for me.
I'm still waiting for the dark cloud that put over the country to lift . . .
September 28, 2008 3:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
We were on the playground after lunch waiting to go back into school and a rumor started that JFK had been shot ( I was 10) and I lived in a very Republican town.
We were told as soon as class started that he was shot and school was dismissed...my mother spent days crying...
September 28, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just love this post! Those are brilliant reactions. I love it - "I think he's trying to be mean" - yes, yes he is.
September 28, 2008 1:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
An observation: Whenever you wonder why the points that campaigners make aren't hugely substantiative remember
a) this post
b) people thought it was great (because it gelled with their internal beliefs)
c) the candidates are being selected by people who are reacting similarly to a 6 year old
d) and many people here applaud that
I'm somewhat in awe that this post has garnered 50 recommendations -- an unusually high number. I wonder how many people who rec'ed this because it confirmed that McCain "looked" (literally!) bad are the same people who decry those Americans who voted for GWB because he was a guy they wanted to have a beer with. Why is that visceral response bad, but the visceral response to McCain okay?
In other thread, someone brought up the Carter/Reagan debates -- or we can bring up the Mondale/Reagan debates. Those were where Reagan blew the other two off the lecterns. Now the visceral, "childish" response was in favor of Reagan at that time -- did that seem like a good decision?
September 28, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd recommend this comment if I could.
It's cute when kids say the damndest things. It's horrifying when grown adults vote on those same things.
September 28, 2008 2:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would recommend Customer0012's recommendation of the comment if I could.
September 28, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
It has upset me for decades that American voters seem to take the Presidential campaign and vote like they vote for Homecoming King.
The past few years I have been catching up on reading, mostly politics but also an area that fascinates me: the human brain, mind and how it all works.
Newer testing, research and studies have developed into a very different understanding of how we think. As it applies to politics, Drew Westen,"The Political Brain" does a very good job of interpreting the research and applying it to politics. He is head and shoulders above Lakoff, who I found shallow and overblown.
Basically, only 15 - 20% of the population actually balances the thinking process between the left and right hemispheres. The rest mostly use the right (less verbal, more experiential) to decide if they like the candidate, trust them, etc. Or has been labeled here: the visceral response.
Obama has done an excellent job of attracting both types. I thought maybe Westen was advising him but recently read a post at HuffPO where he praised Obama's post Labor day tactics, especially the Sept 16th economy speech.
I am the same age as Nail and was confused that my parents were supporting Goldwater in '64 instead of LBJ. Although I cast my first vote for Dick in '72, I learned quickly what a mistake it was. I lived in AK for 14 years and became politically active there.I've watched the same emotional crap put out by the GOP for over 3 decades and it still makes me cringe at the stupidity. I also cringe at what Americans find funny (Seinfeld?) or worth spending hours watching ('reality' or Idol). It doesn't make me feel much better knowing how most human brains work. At least is not so unknowable or unbelievable.
Not that I can wrap my brain around having an 8 year old child to raise at 56. May John have all the energy that takes.
September 28, 2008 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm surprised at your comment about SEINFELD. In it's day, it attracted the very well educated -- the humor is pretty sophisticated, especially when Larry David was at the helm. I'm still amazed it had the mainstream success it did -- but that's only because an NBC exec liked it so much. It's rating were dismal for a while.
September 28, 2008 2:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the popularity of the post is twofold as you are seeing. Lots of folks are remembering as we are seeing events for them that were meaningful as kids related to politics - esp. JFK - who inspired hope in so many.
The other is that Andrew's reactions if put in pundits words are essentially what is the reality of the debate. McCain's behavior, body language and disdain for Obama was something people, esp, independents did not like and McCain screwed himself with that unseemly behavior.
We are all tired of this slam the opponents, bad mouthing, combative, get nothing done politics and McCain is making it obvious that the Maverick is just more of the same.
September 28, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
John, I hope that you don't mind if replay that comment with a couple of word changes:
I'm not saying your point isn't true, but I find it sad that it's true, and the sentiment had disastrous consequences in 2000.
September 28, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Re: Mondale vs. Reagan, the usual view is that Reagan was rather bad in the first debate -- leading to some anxiety about his age and aptitudes -- and bounced back in the second.
Although I don't remember first-hand any specific moments from either debate, I was 12 going on 13 at the time and had a fierce loathing of Reagan. In Social Studies class we talked about the election while my teacher was being observed by the department chair, and I found out a few years later that the chair had afterwards asked about "that kid who was so pro-Mondale it was ridiculous."
September 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would much prefer if people voted, and generally acted, on rational, logical, well-thought-out beliefs instead of visceral, childish responses. But for some unknown reason, that just isn't the way they work. So if now their visceral reaction to McCain is bad, maybe that means they'll vote on that instead of on that nebulous "There's just something about Obama I don't get" feeling many have previously expressed.
September 28, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was 8 in 1968. That was the first presidential election I watched on tv, and it was scary!
Bobby Kennedy was my candidate. (I think he had about 90% of the 8-year-old vote.) His little brother Ted swung through my town, Martinez, California, the day before Bobby was killed, and we went out to see him. The assassination confused the hell out of me. Because even though, the day prior, I knew that I was not seeing the "actual" Bobby Kennedy, the next day I thought how weird it was that "the guy I saw yesterday" is now dead.
Later that summer, my dad tried to explain to me and my older brother what the "floor fight" at the convention was, and what the riot outside was. I was against the War, so I approved of the riot, even though it scared me. I liked Hubert H. Humphrey, because he had a cool name (just like, four years prior -- one of my earliest memories -- we would chant "L.B.J. for the U.S.A.!").
Presidential politics for an 8-year-old is very mysterious.
Thanks for sharing your parental view of your own child. (Even though you are pretty damn old to have a kid that young! :-))
September 28, 2008 2:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
priceless post - thank you.
September 28, 2008 4:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Per above, John's son would great on cable, better than so many of those "analysts". Maybe he could replace Crawley on CNN.
If you have kids maybe it would be fun to make some yard signs, posters, and such.
September 28, 2008 7:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
John King needs to go first. This witless wonder actually said "McCain pulled all his ads during his campaign suspension"
John King, McCain Propagandist, and a Fracking Idiot!
September 28, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was 9 going on 10 during the 1960 campaign, and lived in West Hartford, CT. One of the things I remember was that there were a lot of quarters in circulation that had red-nail polish painted on Washington's head to make it look as if he was wearing a skull cap, similar to the ones that Catholic Cardinals wear. It was explained to me that it was designed to remind people of JFK's Catholicism. I was a Catholic and, at the time, didn't understand why JFK's being one was a problem for some people.
I also remember there were events for people to come have tea and cookies with Jackie.
The times sure have changed, haven't they?
September 28, 2008 8:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
TO ALL - Andrew is fired up to continue his career as a commentator on Thursday night...even he knows where Russia is on a map.....
We will post then with an update from Andrew....
PS - to all of you have commented on my AARP age and the young ones - I have a 26 year old from another life and these guys, 5 pugs and an English Mastiff, things are fun around here..
September 28, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Coming in late on this post. Just returned from a trip to NYC where the atmosphere is gloomy and not helped by 4 days of rain. Thanks for this post. My 20-year-old son has been my best medicine when it comes to my angst about this election. He just looks at me (or emails me) and basically says, "Mom, Obama's going to win. How can he not win?" He says it with such certainty and calm that it makes me pause and breathe deeper. Our roles are reversed. He is not new to this. I took him to Clinton's first inauguration and we turned our back on Bush during his. But, he is mature now and has been watching the campaign and following the issues. When I ask him for the 100th time, "Will your friends in college vote? You have to make sure they do." He assures me that they are just as interested now as they were in the primary, if not more so. One of his suitemates was a McCain supporter until Palin. Thanks for teaching your son the importance of civics and political involvement. It will pay off! I used to make my sons watch the State of the Union every year. When my oldest was 6 he asked why sometimes only one side of the room clapped. Kids are very perceptive.
September 28, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
So we can count on the little guy's vote then...?
Really, I think this is cute too, and I agree with the kid. But agreeing among ourselves how an 8 year old nailed it seems to me as good a definition as any of the echo chamber...
September 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Sometimes it is comforting to be in the echo chamber.
September 28, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure it is, but it can also lead to a skewed view of the world, and disappointment when reality doesn't conform to it.
Telling ourselves that an 8 year old is smarter than the experts because he says things we wish the experts would, and seeing it as an omen, is wishful thinking. May not be wrong, but is unproductive in any case.
September 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kate: I thought Mike hit it on the head. His comment wasn't grumpy and yet pointed out an uncomfortable truth.
I remember how people on these boards when berserk when I (and I'm sure there were others) said there were things you could learn from Ronald Reagan. People literally couldn't separate the policy from the presentation.
And yet, here we are swooning because "our guy" happens to have the good style.
This is the reason why I've always thought the demonization of the other side is unproductive. There are many people here, who I know are thoughtful and intelligent, that have used the "McShame", etc. monikers.
When people wonder why FNC is so popular, they may want to think of this post -- and it's comment section.
We are now at 85 rec's, which is extraordinary. And if that isn't an echo chamber, I don't know what is.
September 28, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we are all smart enough to see the post for what it was and no more. No one is engaging in magical thinking, this is just a nice human interest story. Everything need not be so "purposeful." There are plenty of places for that, here and elsewhere.
September 28, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Andrew for President in 2030!
September 28, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Todd, thanks for that!!! He will need to wait until 2036 when he will be 37!!!! He is getting a kick that so many people have been interested which only reinforces his interest that this is fun and cool so thanks to all for helping reinforce the civics lesson for a little boy.
I think that as we have seen with this post the memories of so many of us go back to JFK and RFK and others the impact they had.
Think of Barack and the huge impact he will have on kids of ALL backgrounds in changing their thinking about what they can do!!
Andrew is ready for Thurs nite now!!!
September 28, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Body language is everything. The human mind is like a monkey driving a freight train, it pretty much goes the way it is headed whatever you think you think.
September 28, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Such inspiring and beautiful posts from sweetnonnie and johnnall. Made my day.
Try watching the debate with the sound turned off sometime. This one especially, is a body language fest.
September 28, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
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