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MoveOn Gets It Completely Wrong... Again
One of the dubious advantages of living in a battleground state is that you get to see all of the political ads, including this bit of conflicted tripe from MoveOn.org:
Click here to watch "An Idiot's Guide To Economics"
Starts off OK, I guess. Ties McCain to the current crisis, mentions Phil Gramm and Rick Davis' lobbying. But what's the conclusion? "Screw the bailout. We shouldn't have to pay for this." WTF? Has MoveOn gone Libertarian on us? Do they have a CLUE what's going on? Have they read Page One of the latest proposal? Who the hell decided that this message--of all possible messages--was the one that was worth spending money on?
The same clueless nit who decided the Patraeus/Betray Us ad was a winner, I guess. MoveOn should be licensed and then someone should take their license away.
Comments (34)
I don't think the ad goes far enough in proposing alternatives. The bailout proposal is very complicated and requires much more time in Congress before it's passed. I think it will be passed - maybe by the 15th, but maybe not until Halloween! Once it gets to the Senate there will be even more debate and deliberations - That's what the Senate is about. I personally felt the proposal was very weak and gave too much power to the people who caused this mess, especially Paulson and Cox. There also were not enough penalties, and the executive comp proposal was very weak.
Overall I think MoveOn, which certainly must still be getting money from Soros, has failed to support the cause - the disterous pick of Palin, mcsenile's health, Petraeus gloom about Afghanistan, any number of issues. What are they doing with all the money?
September 30, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
My problem with MoveOn is that they're a living example of the Peter Principle--the notion that everyone rises to their own level of incompetence. There's a function for an organization like MoveOn. But clearly (to me anyway) they've gone well beyond what they're good at and entered an area they're very, very bad at. If MoveOn was an aspiring comedian, some kind person would tell them not to quit their day job. MoveOn should stop trying to make serious ads without proper adult supervision.
September 30, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the fundamental problem here is the term "bailout" which has become inextricably attached to the original Bush-Paulson, 700b no strings attached proposal.
I think most of us in the 99% agree that plan sucked.
McCain was trying to rebrand the process as a "rescue" which is equally problematic because it paints Wall Street folks in the same light hurricane victims. They are not victims of some act of God. These are self inflicted problems.
No, this should be looked at as an intervention, chock full of tough-love, random screenings and adequate support and safe-guards for co-dependents. If we're going to become socialists, we can't do this half way. Enablers got us into this. Strong parenting is the only way out.
September 30, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I heard some economists suggest this be called a "buyout" pointing to the fact that the government would be buying "toxic" assets off the finance sector and would sell them later for a return. On the other hand, I've heard some economists say that those assets would not be bought at their true bottom prices but a higher inflated prices so that it is uncertain that taxpayers would get a return.
Sorry, no links. I just came from an economics forum at my university.
September 30, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't someone say the bill should be renamed "Clean Up" bill. I can only hope that MoveOn and the DNC are just waiting to pounce. The DNC had a web ad yesterday on mcsenile's gambling, but it did not go anywhere near far enough. And what group would be gutsy enough to go after mcsenile health issue strongly - Brave New World is taking a stab at it but they are not well-funded. I am hoping the NY Times will get on the health issue in a few days - after the bailout news dies down a little.
September 30, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok - here's some good news about MoveOn - They are going after Brokaw this morning for his bias in favor of mcsenile. The NY Times also did a piece on Brokaw's age, lack of ability to ask tough questions this morning. Here are the links.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/moveon-demands-apology-fr_n_130538.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/arts/television/30brok.html?_r=1&ref=television&oref=slogin
We need to get Brokaw out as moderator of the next pres debate so I'm thinking of sending an email to NBC, but am waiting for MoveOn to circulate a petition like they did very successfully after the Gibson/Stephanopolous debate fiasco in the primaries.
I live in IL, but do have sympathy for those of you in battleground states - We don't even see the ads here and I don't watch much tv anyway.
September 30, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
All of the ads I've seen from MoveOn this season have been lame but that takes the cake. They actually are a very small organization, they could use some sort assistance with advertising. Remember the "I've got hope" ad or the "you can't have my son" ad?
September 30, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
When will MoveOn show the courage necessary to lock arms with out brothers and sisters in PETA and ask Ben and Jerry's to replace cow's milk with mother's milk in their ice cream products.
Their silence is instructive.
September 30, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I saw that thing from PETA, I prayed it was a joke. Then I just cringed. Just when it seemed as if they were acquiring at least a little mainstream credibility, they came out with that idiocy. I wrote to them to ask how they proposed to get the milk they'd need. Human dairy farms? Women in Third World countries who need the money? Poor Americans? Possibly they could start some sort of a high society "milk drive" where they could get wealthy donors to give for the ice cream cause.
Sometimes someone says something so stupid that it's best to just ignore them. Other times, it's impossible.
September 30, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
MoveOn has their heart in the right place and they're doing a great job of registering voters here in Ohio.
However, they're pretty clueless on policy these days and their advertisements are often tone deaf.
September 30, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not only do I live in a battleground state, it's Iowa, home of the first caucus. The ads for this presidential race started more than a year ago and haven't stopped. Most of the candidates started campaigning here 4 years ago, right after Kerry lost.
Plus, our local TV stations also broadcast to Nebraska, South Dakota and Minnesota so we're very popular.
September 30, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just saw a new ad from Obama that's one of the best I've seen. The tagline: "Change has to be more than a slogan."
September 30, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you are over analyzing this, or parsing words a bit here.
The ad ends by saying, 'Americans shouldn't have to foot the bill for mistakes that John McCain and his friends made.'
That is true. We should not have to pay for McCain's bs mistakes.
The ad does not say congress should dump the bailout plan now.
pv2k
September 30, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
MoveOn is a classic example of the very phenomonon that's killing the Republicans right now--the belief that what is pleasing to the base is pursuasive to the uncommitteds and undecideds.
September 30, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who? The left of the left that's who.
Have you heard Dennis Kucinich on this? They want to know why they will never be elected? Because their vision is too damn narrow.
I'm tired to utter death of extremists. I am. Right, left, don't care.
They all are wack.
October 1, 2008 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
The far right and the far left are two sides of the same closed mind.
October 1, 2008 2:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I recall during the primaries that it was the ultimate sign of failure that the Clintons had lost the support of MoveOn or would even disagree with them.
Please summarize and discuss. Points for original context. Bonus points for "that was then, this is now".
October 1, 2008 2:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I believe that was mostly irony, harkening back to MoveOn's original purpose of saving Bill.
October 1, 2008 2:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Irony like when Lieberman delivered the speech at the Republican Convention.
Perhaps MoveOn is no longer the helpful focused organization it once was, say when it got started to help Bill/us.
October 1, 2008 7:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Des, you miss the point. All's fair in love and politics. Reality is a minor inconvenience.
October 1, 2008 3:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
How can you compare yesternow with tomorrowday?
Next thing you know, you'll be wanting our descendors to pay for the sins of their ancestants.
Must be troll-talk.
October 1, 2008 3:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, Des, you're wrong. We have always been at war with Moveon.
October 1, 2008 4:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
But wasn't it RaveOut??? I mean, i think I remember, wasn't it... let me check my notes.
October 1, 2008 7:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who? What's a primary?
That's right! An elementary school book.
"That was then, this is now". I'm old and barely remember books. Dusty labels on shaky shelves. The Dewey decimal system scared me.
Give me points, peanut.
October 1, 2008 4:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, for those into pointillism, here's all the tips you need:
http://knitlet.typepad.com/knitlet/2007/03/trois_petits_po.html
October 1, 2008 7:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is there any chance that this election will stop being about the Clintons for you at some point between now and November 5?
October 1, 2008 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, unlike the original IBM Selectric, I come with a memory *AND* a sense of irony.
I just keep racking up those "why we can't vote Hillary" issues that seem to have morphed from a bug into a feature in the course of a few months.
October 1, 2008 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever we feel about MoveOn (they used to have a lot of money), the want Brokaw to "apologize" for his misuse of poll numbers in the interview with Axelrod and Schmidt last Sunday. I think Brokaw should be removed as moderator for the next presidential debate (apologize is very weak) as he is biased in favor of mcsenile and does not have the intellectual energy and ability to ask tough questions, as discussed on Huffington and in yesterday's NY Times article.
Anyway, if you are so inclined, there is a link to send in an email to NBC demanding that Brokaw be replaced. I've already done this but now I have to send my daily email to my duly elected representatives re the bail out. Here's the link:
http://pol.moveon.org/emails/brokaw_poll.html
Overall MoveOn is very disappointing and we have to just take matters into our own hands (and emails).
October 1, 2008 6:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm shocked that you would all trash MoveOn. Talk about the circular firing squad. Outside the Obama campaign, whose supporters are not mutually exclusive from MoveOn, the organization is one of the most organized group of left-wing voters and activists in this country. You don't have to like the strategy of its political action committee; MoveOn is one the best organizers of the liberal-minded people we have. MoveOn supported Obama in the primaries because members voted for it. This might be the most democratic process of the entire election cycle. If you don't like what they do, ignore them or join them and get involved. Not only will you welcomed, you'll find a lot of people who think just like you. Some of the language in this post is very similar to what conservative pundits say. The effort to demonize MoveOn is evidence that certain organizations are afraid of it. Don't fall for this!
As for the bailout -- or as it's currently being marketed: the rescue plan -- a quarter of the House Democrats didn't vote for it. We should be listening to how they came to their decision. The MSM is on board with the "rescue plan" and is giving little time to opposition. Never mind that Congressman after Congressman has stated that most of the callers they've spoken to are against the plan. This isn't sound policy, it's shock therapy. We should be fixing the problem from the bottom up and not accept that a plan that was assembled in a week and started with a three-page proposal squeezed in during the last months of the election season (like the war authorization) is sound strategy.
Anyone who is offended by the "Petraeus/Betray Us" ad is buying the narrative of phony outrage. Petraeus is a politician, using the war to pave the way for his own ambition. Someone needs to say it.
October 1, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whitesauce, I think your post pretty well exemplifies the problem some of us have with this ad: It makes too many points, some of which are spot on, others of which are, shall we say, open to discussion. The result is a somewhat muddled message that turns off people who might otherwise be persuaded.
In the case of the ad, you've got some sharp criticism of John McCain -- which is good -- that then leaps to a broad-brush condemnation of the bill before Congress. Which is problematic, to say the least, because our own candidate is likely to vote for the rescue package in some form or other. In effect then it lumps Obama, at least implicitly, with McCain, which is okay I guess if you don't care too deeply about winning this damn election.
Your post is much in this vein. We can all agree that MoveOn deserves respect for many reasons, as you say paragraph one. But then you wade into the Paulson plan and "the MSM" and all kinds of other issues that are far from black-and-white. And finally you take a slap at everyone who had a problem with the Petraeus ad -- which is not even what we're talking about.
This, I'm afraid, is classic MoveOn, if you will, "thinking." Bring Home the Troops, Save the Baby Seals, Enact Single-Payer Health Coverage, Ban Nuclear Power, Slice Tom Brokaw's Left Thumb Off, Require that All T-Shirts Be Made With Organic Cotton, Beat John McCain, Boycott Wal-Mart, Don't Send Your Sweetheart Roses Grown in Columbia, Eat Bertha's Mussels, Go Redskins! And if you disagree with any part of that, you're Not One Of Us.
Message discipline, pal. All we're asking for here is a little message discipline. One thing at a time. Right now, the only message that counts is GOP Bad, Dem Good.
October 1, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Petraeus ad was mentioned hrebendorf at the top of the page, so it was relevant. It was part of the criticism of MoveOn.
MoveOn's view is its own and likely represents the view of its majority. You don't have to agree with all of it. You also don't have to like their approach. Their 4.2 million members seem to agree with it. Furthermore, despite its disagreements with Obama, MoveOn has been one of his biggest supporters. Obama can handle the differences; MoveOn can handle the differences. The harsh criticism is unwarranted. MoveOn speaks on behalf of its members. If some members disagree, they can choose not to participate.
Your representation of MoveOn is exactly the uninformed narrative that I was criticizing. You're the one suggesting that they're not one of us, whatever that means. Suggesting that progressives have one unified simple message is naive. Message discipline is a political strategy; it doesn't represent what people actually want. Take the opportunity to check out their website today. Get a better feel for what MoveOn does.
October 1, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I Agree - MoveOn awarded 1 Million to Obama - members voted for Obama to win the award.
The BetrayUs Ad was remarkable !!!
It is the reaction and the pussies with no backbone that made it seem bad.
The Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund is also putting out a LEFT type of Ad. The Wolves getting Shot from a Plane.
The bandaid - Ad of McCain - gross
All these ads ae NECESSARY because of the Republican Slime Machine.
At Least these ads are based on truth.
Unlike the republicans that make shit up - and use race or gender inuendo and code words.
GO DEM 527s let it rip.
October 1, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yeh,
The Republicans OWN this Financial Disaster.
They OWN the BailOut!
They want to pin a VERY unpopular bailout bill to the Dems - Ha - the Dems had the votes in the house, It is the republican Reps that came short.
It is the Republicans that need to come up with 60% of their reps to vote for this. It is all the republicans fault. The Dems delivered above and beyond.
Not the senate is adding a TAX break - give me a fucking Break.
They are just begging for more Republican Votes.
This is not about having Credit available.
If it was the US gov could loan money to Solvent banks and Credit Unions - that 700 million would go a long way, as direct loans.
October 1, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whitesauce and Skibumlee...
I had earlier made these same points, among others, but for some unknown reason my post was blocked...perhaps the links to this same site refuting the author?
The circle firing ring analogy was particularly apt. And I agree that not sticking up for MoveOn tends to amplify or justify the perception of a lack of backbone among Dems. MoveOn is a progressive grassroots outfit, but it is unfair to characterize them and their members as extreme left. After all, it seems to me TPM represents and promotes the same progressive ideas.
October 1, 2008 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
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