I dunno, destor. The guy was tortured. He probably knows more about the power of eye contact than we do.

Well, I agree about the disdain. The hostility felt palpable to me.

It seemed to me that McCain went to the emotional well a few times too often. Obama managed to come off as an adult, McCain as as emo teenager.

I don't know if he's behaving like a low ranking monkey or not, but Obama was fab in the way he kept engaging him and turning towards him even and still looking at the camera.

I did see a lot of blinking. But no grimacing. I think it was disdain and also fear. Both. Bad mix.

Weirdly, I DO think it's the monkey thing. The media will never say it, but McCain's said himself that his POW time saw him break. Which - as a human being - must be a pretty f*cking terrible thing to handle afterward. But when I saw McCain have to fold to Bush when he lost... it blew me away. You could see it, feel it, how hard it was for him - but he folded. It was visible. And McCain hates that this happens, rages against it, can't believe this asshole has the upper hand - but at the core, he feels that the other guy DOES have the upper hand. And right now, he's falling in the polls... Palin's a deadweight around his ankle... Wall St dying... and when he decides to "take control" and be the leader and go to Washington, what does he do? He FAILS to take control. After all that build up, he lands in the White House, faces the other Alpha's, and... mumbles... waffles... exits... and reverses his position on debating. NOT an Alpha.

Look at how McCain blusters - he looks away, and talks to the air. Shit, he might as well have been sitting in that cell - that "box." I'm not a big fan of slapping psychology onto politics, but remember that weird "Man In The Box" scene at the end of the McCain tribute film? He APPROVED that shit. As the culmination of his tribute. Because he still IS the man in the box. And I feel bad about that, for him, as a man, to have suffered that. But. He's not the guy that's needed.

i dunno.

my take on it is that mccain is like an abused dog. after enough time and beating, a dog is psychologically damaged enough to not be able to look at people, let alone make eye contact, which is an action that implies dominance. i'd be willing to bet, that after his years in his pow camp, maccain has a few scars of his own, which he obviously hasn't dealt with; and like that abused dog, he has a hard time looking at those he perceives as being superior or antagonistic to him.

you can take your pick as to which he sees obama as being, but i'd say BO is seen as some sort of threat.

For whatever reason, McCain is incapable of being gracious and combative in the same mix. He did seem threatened to the outside eye, although I suspect he subjectively experienced it as feeling righteous. Control dynamics in one to ones are like this monkey thing, and Obama owned that stage in the nonverbals. I also think from professional experience that female audiences more preponderantly don't favor alpha dog end zone dances like what McCain tried to do at the end of the night. Rec'd.

Rec'd.

If, at 847 years old, you're still the low ranking monkey, face it -- you're not climbing higher.

Hah!

I think McCain was flummoxed by Obama. The amount of blinking that he did, and the failure to even look Obama in the eyes when they shook hands was due to McCain feeling like that low ranking monkey, or, McCain just hating Obama. I like the low ranking monkey theme, to be sure, but after thinking about his behavior, and the sheer contempt in McCain's voice, I'd have to lean towards the hate theme. I think he hates Obama, and hates having to debate him.

OK...alpha or no alpha. What distinguishes us from other primates and other mammals is our higher-level communication and acculturation. John McCain showed a level of contempt that is completely antethetical to his background (Navy man, son/grandson of admirals, elite upbringin). He was uncivil. His tenor, body language, refusal to make eye contact or acknowledge spoke volumes. He said, "Barack Obama, you're not fit to wipe my boots." Such posturing -- whether from extreme hubris or from deep insecurities -- is not lost on the viewing public. I have said time and again, McCain, the black sheep, playboy in his family, has something to prove. He proved it all right. No way. No how. No McCain.

While on the subject of body language and social signals, a day later I find that I keep remembering the very end, after the wives came on stage. The two couples were at opposite ends of the stage and, in my memory at least, McCain and Cindy were all but looking at their watches (and not at the Obamas), wondering how many seconds before they could depart. It was the Obamas who went the full way across the stage, initiated contact, and carried out the polite greetings.

That bothered me a little at the time ... and more and more in retrospect. I keep thinking about a couple of moments at the *end* of Kerry/Bush debates when, despite the acrimony, the two men would shake hands and even have a word to say to one another. -- And it's made me think about the basic-level courtesy and politeness that GWB and Laura Bush have always shown to others. It's quite clear that Barack and Michelle Obama would maintain that level of evility ..... but one really has to wonder about John and Cindy McCain. I think **she** is very polite by nature but it's clear she doesn't (doesn't dare?) cross her husband, and he's just plain mean or at least rude sometimes.

I know it's superficial but this bothers me - quite a bit, apparently, since it's being sort of a toothache I can't keep probing.

Did anyone else notice that or make anything of it?

Yes I also noticed that Barack and Michelle Obama had to walk over to greet the McCains and it bothered me a lot. However, after listening and seeing how condescending John McCain was toward Obama, I thought John McCain was a petty and angry has-been who believed all along that he's entittled to the presidency, hence his attitude toward his opponents. He did not learn that it's the same attitude that was Hillary's undoing.

Wow. I really enjoyed reading the thoughtful analyses on this thread, but I agree with the simple explanation from a poster higher up. McCain resents Obama (for many reasons, the most important being, hey, he's trying to keep him from a long held dream). And he's incapable of masking his feelings. Jon Stewart pointed out this aspect of McCain's personality when he was making fun of McCain's visit with Dalai Lama. He said McCain looked like a six-year-old visiting an old folks home. It's really a symptom of immaturity. Not something you want in a leader.

I know that McCain and his people decided on the "my many years in Congress, public service, what-have-you" to counter the age question and point up the elder statesman stuff. But after awhile and many uses of it, it seemed to be more of a reminder of how old McCain is.

And, okay, Ahmadinajhad isn't the easiest name to pronounce, but it went from painful to "yikes! he really can't pronounce it!" when McCain kept stumbling over the name. I'll betcha his handlers have him warm up with some name tongue twisters before the next debate.

I got a lot of different feelings from McCain's demeanor towards Obama. I got the controlling-anger-by-not-looking thing at times, and also the disdain. And I don't agree that the disdainful always look, albeit with contempt, at the disdained. Often the most disdainful thing is to behave as if the object of disdain is like the air: there, but unnecessary to acknowledge.

I also got the low-ranking animal feeling, as well. And those times came after Obama "agreed" with McCain, but showed how incomplete or misdirected McCain's positions were. Because Obama did it with great calm, great grace, and, really, some respect. Yet he didn't let McCain off without making sure that everyone knew that McCain's views are out of date. McCain was faced. Not with arrogance, but with assurance.

Losing to Bush probably resulted in a lot of sympathy for McCain because Bush is such a weasel. That can't happen now. McCain has been truly outclassed.

I'd say it was shame... McCain likes to think of himself as honorable, but how can you look at a decent man you've smeared with racist lies - whom you've publicly accused of being a paedophile - and retain any sense of decency?

So McCain can't look at him or he'd have to face what he's done, and the consequent abandonment of all honor.

How about embarrassment? He has lied so much and is finding out that Palin is not what he needed (or wanted) that he is ashamed of the choice. He is the embarrassment (not Palin) to a lot of people. He knows how intelligent and eloquent Obama is and knows Palin will be gutted by Biden in the upcoming VP debate. He simply embarrassed?