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"Water Breakgate" - 8/31/2008 - New and Disturbing Information
Water Breakgate - Judgment - The Real Issue
As you all know there are rumors swirling around the web and blogosphere concerning the parentage of Sarah Palin's young son Trig.These are unsubstantiated and hopefully for the sake of the family not true. This story did NOT orignate this week, It was bubbling around AK since April.
THIS IS NOT THE REAL ISSUE. Unfortunately examining the situation here will be required to get to Gov. Palin's judgement and behavior concerning this. What I have learned in the last 24 hours concerning the medical actions taken after Gov. Palin returned and at least something about her doctor is also disturbing and raises more questions and adds soem real support to the rumors.
The real issue simply put is the poor judgment that Sarah Palin exhibiited in traveling while 36 weeks pregnant, carrying a special needs baby after her water broke. Does this sound like someone qualifed to be "a heartbeat away" from the Presidency?
Republican Vetting Issues?
The fact that this issue has come up nationally when it had been an issue in AK since spring makes one wonder about McCain's vetting. From the NYT today:
"Republican officials said that though they had time to collect
surface-level material on Ms. Palin and her husband, they had done no
examination of the rest of her family."
Local political allied and colleagues and Palin staffers were quoted in local articles that neither they or anyone they knew had been part of a vetting process. Theor point was that is small community like Anchorage and Juneau this type of thing would not stay quiet for long.
All the material here is a function of the "googles and tubes" and I have to wonder if McCain's team dug into this on the web. Iti s the easiest and quickest way to get a start on issues and they must have missed this or not dug far enough.
Sarah Palin on Pregnancy and Working
Sarah Palin is one tough lady it appears in terms of how she views things.
"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby
at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the
cave."
I personally doubt this type of "pioneer: attitude really is how she would treat the decision to fly as she did.
The Dallas Trip - Full newspaper Article here
Lets get the facts straight here.
"Palin went to Texas at 35/36 weeks for an energy conference of the National Governors Association in Mid April when she experienced signs of early labor. She wasn't due for another month.
Early Thursday -- she thinks it was around 4 a.m. Texas time -- she consulted with her doctor, family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who is based in the Valley and has delivered lots of babies, including Piper, Palin's 7-year-old.
Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.
"I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She
gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference.
Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.
"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson
said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.
Flying
On their website Alaska Airlines has no policy to restrict later term flying. However see the quote below:
Airline spokeswoman Caroline Boren..."The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress,"
She (Palin) said she didn't try to hide it but didn't feel a need to alert the airline, either.
One article I read made it clear that Palin never asked for or got specific clearance for her flight from her Doctor.
Gov. Palin's Doctor
From Palin's Doctor - Cathy Baldwin Johnson is a medical expert and said - "I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said. Why? Sounds like a huge malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen if this had turned out badly. especially with a public figure.
Other experts disagree:
Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman's water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That's true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg. "To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak," Gregg said. (Anchorage Daily News 4/22/2008)
Dr. Johnson is " the region's "expert" in child and adult sexual abuse testing" according to news articles from 2002 and her Zoom Info profile. She is listed as the "Founder" of the county "Sexual Assault Response Team" (2001/2002) also as a practicing MD.
In a 2007 document Dr, Johnson was listed as the Volunteer Medical Director: The Children’s Place, Wasilla & AK. CARES, Anchorage and in Private Practice and Medical Director, Providence Matanuska Health Care, Wasilla.
She also won AAFP Family Physician of the Year in 2001 a prestigious national award.
Inadequate Facilities for Preemie and Downs Syndrome
When Gov Palin got back to Anchorage she drove over an hour to Palmer/Wasilla past the 2 regional facilities that have NICU and proper staff to deal with preemies(Lungs et al) and Downs syndrome complications (heart et al). (Map to Providence Hospital (6 mile drive) and Mat Su Palmer (45 mile drive) here.)
There is no mention of a NICU on the Mat Su site. Other web comments from local folks say the only NICU are in Anchorage. A link to a virtual tour of their birthing center is here, but does not work in my browers(??).
In fact Dr. Johnson's practice group is listed as - Providence Matanuska Healthcare in her Healthgrades profile. Providence has a number of facilities in AK from local clinics to major hospitals.
Providence in Anchorage is apparently one of the 2 facilities that has NICU et al for preemies and Downs babies in Anchorage. As mentioned before it is 6 miles from the airport.
The hospital's baby picture page for April 18 does not list the birth or show a picture. This may mean nothing due the celebrity of the baby or its Downs Syndrome.
Doctor's Competence or Complicity?
A logical question for sheer safety sake for any delivery - let alone the Governor of the state - would be why then did Dr, Johnson not meet Palin in Anchorage at the Providence facility (where she is on staff) and deliver the baby there instead of an additional hour drive to a local, more out of the way hospital, close to the Palin home with no NICU?
From a purely malpractice perspective this would be suicidal if the facts as we are being told are true, let alone the potential medical consequences to the child.
Dr. Johnson who delivered the child at Mat Su Regional is no longer on staff at that facility. Another odd coincidence since on 2007 she was not only on staff but listed as Medical Director.
Judgment?
In terms of pure judgment I must say I am quite puzzled. Sarah Palin is clearly a good mother, an accomplished and intelligent person. As a politician it would seem that she would work hard to not do anything that could show here in a poor light under any circumstances or take risks that would.
First - In Dallas alone there are NICU equipped hospitals thann all of Alaska. Why not use one of them and take no risk w/ the child which is going to be a preemie and you know has Downs?
Second - Giving Alaskans some leeway that they are accustomed to traveling long distances out of necessity why not then stop in Seattle after a 4 hour flight, where many Alaskans with problem births are referred and Providence has facilities there as well?
Third - Even stretching this and saying that she felt well enough in Seallte to make the last 4 hour flight to Seattle and she is a tough lady why would you not go straight to the best facility in Alaska for preemies and special needs births that is 10-15 minutes from the airport AND in a hospital system your OB/GYN practices in?
Fourth - What reasons could there be to go to a regional facility to give birth other than being a few minutes from your home when it does not have NICU facilities?
Conclusions and Questions
The only answer I can see othe than total reckless judgment (which this mother does not seem to have) or a delberate attempt to lose the child (makes no sense based on her bio) is that Sarah Palin:
- Was never pregnant
- Why would a 44-year-old woman with four kids out of diapers, embarking on her first governorship, really get pregnant?
- Was called home for her daughter giving birth knowing that the Doctor could keep the delivery from happening until she got home.
- Created the travel story to cover up the truth
- Did
not really know in advance that the baby had Downs Syndrome? There is
no reason to do an amnio or any genetic tests on a teenager. Clearly
Sarah would have had the tests at 44 as standard procedure.
- Is there something unusual about the father if the child is Bristol's w/ Downs?
Odd Things are Happening - X Files ??
- Why are all the photos of Palin gone from the State website as of yesterday?
- Why is her doctor no longer on staff at Mat Su where the baby was delivered?
- Why did Sean Hannity's website take down a thread on this?
- The virtual tour of the Mat Su hospital birthing facility is not working. This may be a glitch as well but the timing is odd
Bristol Palin
Remember - this story did NOT originate this week, It was bubbling around AK since April.
The other alleged facts are that Bristol was out fo school for 4-5 months, while Palin was pregnant with a case of "mono". The father was also on a leave from his oil field job. Numerous web posts from AK say this was common knowledge up there and with some of her friends, none that I can substantiate however.
During that time when out with mono she had a car accident reported in the local paper:
Wasilla Police Department (Other Motorist name redacted by me)
On February 8, 2008, at 1737 hours, Wasilla Police responded to two vehicle collision at Seward Meridian Parkway and Fireweed Drive . Investigation revealed that Bristol Palin, age 17 of Wasilla, was driving a 4-door sedan and attempted to turn into a business when she struck a 2-door sedan driven by XXXXXXXXXXx, age xx, of XXXXX. Palin was issued a citation for Failing to Use Due Care to Avoid a Collision. XXXX was issued a citation for an expired registration and no proof of insurance.
Pictures to Review
Pictures are key here and we have tried to assemble them all in one place of both Sarah and Bristol.
- March 14,2008 - 7 months pregnant - Sarah Palin
- National Governors Conference - July, 2008, 3 months after birth
- Video of Palin on a Hike on Local AK Podcast - video was working an hour ago, not loading now
- Cached version here - It is working
Palin Family Holiday 2007 photo below orig. printed in the Anchorage paper 3/2008:
Also shown on web captioned as 2006 just showing up today like that. Odd.
- Earlier photo of a trim Bristol - 12/4/2006, Inauguration Family Photo
- Bristol Palin at the VP announcement - holding Trig
- Palin family Philly Zoo - 7/2008 - after Gov. conference
- March 2008 - Airport Photo - article mentions how "hot" the Gov. is but no pregnancy mention
Conclusion
There is a lot of smoke here but what is causing it is not clear....yet.
The issues that are troubling and need to be addressed by Gov. Palin:
- Travelling to Dallas at 36 weeks in the first place
- Not going directly to a Dallas hospital once her water broke which would be standard procedure per a number of posts from doctors and newspaper articles
- Flying home 10-12 hours with fluid leaking risking infection and delivery in transit
- Not telling the Airline
- Bypassing the premier area hospital - Providence
- 15 minutes from the Anchorage airport (vs. over an hour to your own w/ no NICU)
- With a NICU to handle a 36 week preemie w/ the double risk of Downs Syndrome baby
- That your OB/GYN was on the staff of
- Dr. Johnson, a practicing OB/GYN, is an expert in child and adult sexual abuse,
- What does this mean if anything to the situation?
- Baby delivered in the local hospital by this "expert" even though it was supposedly 4 weeks premature and had Downs Syndrome
- Returning to work after 3 days off after this ordeal
- Running for VP with a new special needs baby
All makes this whole thing sound really fishy...
In the least I would ask all of you does this type of risky behavior and poor decision making as it relates to Sarah Palin's own family make you comfortable that she can be VP let alone a "heartbeat away from the Presidency"? I hope that that is all this turns out to be, but I doubt it will.
Comments (269)
Oh god.
I give up
August 31, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL. Told you she was a game changer. Everyone is losing their mind.
August 31, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on Lalo, twenty, or even one hundred, people here who have lost their minds is hardly everyone.
Most voters aren't obsessed.
August 31, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give them a day or two, and everyone will start leaking amniotic fluid like John Nail.
August 31, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo - sorry you don't see the issue here
August 31, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not nearly as sorry as we are that you do see issues where none exist.
September 1, 2008 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
And that you're not reading your own research -- your March 2008 airport photo is part of a journal entry that clearly says "Of course I had to check out the “Hottest Governor in the US” and quickly turned to see her pregnant (she has since had her baby) with bags and daughter in tote."
Yet you say "article mentions how "hot" the Gov. is but no pregnancy mention".
Do you not read your own stuff? No preganancy mention?!
This is not a story. Palin has enough faults without making up this sort of dreck. Leave this sort of crap to the repugnicans.
September 1, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry you're a goddamn Limbaugh troll masquerading as a concerned independent who thinks you're going to goad Democrats into buying your complete and total bullshit so you can try to claim some moral highground as a backlash to what people read on liberal blogs, you bottom-feeding scumbag.
September 1, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry you're a goddamn Limbaugh troll masquerading as a concerned independent who thinks you're going to goad Democrats into buying your complete and total bullshit so you can try to claim some moral highground as a backlash to what people read on liberal blogs, you bottom-feeding scumbag.
September 1, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry you're a goddamn Limbaugh troll masquerading as a concerned independent who thinks you're going to goad Democrats into buying your complete and total bullshit so you can try to claim some moral highground as a backlash to what people read on liberal blogs, you bottom-feeding scumbag.
September 1, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
So nice, I said it thrice.
September 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice, and that's what I was thinking.
This seems like such an odd conspiracy-freak kind of story. If we swallow it, and then witnesses and doctors and other come out with proof that it's all bunk, then we've just participated in a major distraction that will be made to present ALL Obama supporters as rabid freaks who take misogynistic pleasure in attacking a woman's pregnancy.
Maybe this sounds like the thoughts of a paranoid conspiracy freak, but it sounds almost too perfect. "It's a trap!" to quote Lucas.
September 1, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, Lalo. It's foolish to go down this road in a purely strategic sense too, as the idea that "liberals are attacking the Palin daughter and family" is already being trumpeted in the right wing blogs. Why risk a backlash vote of women (and men?) who will feel sorry for Palin and her daughter, when Palin herself presents such rich pickings?
September 1, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
The issue is about lying. Last time I checked, asking about lies by a public official is not sexist.
September 1, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
This isn't about the family; it's about judgment: McCain's first and Palin's second (in command).
September 1, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto. What was it, a couple thousands words relative to a non-story?
As woefully unqualified as she is to be vice-president, to suggest that Palin, in consultation with her doctor acted negligently in the matter of the birth of her child is really Ann Coulterish.
I have never seen here at TPM the volume of garbage posting which the Palin appointment has precipitated. To the point, apparently, of causing server problems. And most of the posts are simply repeating information that has already been published and of which most TPMers have probably already read.
August 31, 2008 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris there is rather a good bit of new info consolidated here related to the Doctor and where the baby was born in Wasilla vs. Anchorage with its neonatal care unit.
Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? Forget all the other stuff. if it is her child why would she behave like this?
You fly, at risk, get away with it then go to a hospital that doesn't have the best equipment for a preemie and Downs birth...a double risk child.
I have 3 kids and would never take the slightest risk with them or their birth especially.
Gov. Palin was probably trying to protect her daughter which is their business, until she is a candidate for VP.
To that point why would she run for VP after having this new high needs baby?
Come on folks - McCain's folks blew it here even if the child is hers. Her behavior in traveling and delivering a/ out a NICU is lunacy and to any parent that is a game changer that she would do that.
August 31, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
No I'm not the least bit interested. I will give Palin and her doctor the benefit of the doubt relative to this bit of tabloid type nonsense.
And who are you to pass judgment on Palin, relative to personal decisions about giving birth or raising her children?
There are many issued upon which Palin may be rightfully questioned and/or challenged; but this ain't one of them.
August 31, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
One thing we should challenge her with is what kind of nonsense she believes schools should teach, i.e. abstinence in lieu of sex education, and creationism.
August 31, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree completely.
August 31, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really don't care what anyone does personally.
But, she makes an issue out of the fact that she is so pro-life she never questioned whether to have a down's syndrome baby. She doesn't even believe in birth control, not even condoms for a married couple. She believes in abstinence only education.
IF, she wasn't running for VP, I would say it's nobody's business. But, since she believes these positions should be made the law of the land, while all the while this whole thing is a deception(?),
damn straight I want to know. This goes to credibility. The right loves her story, they wouldn't be so enthusiastic if this were not true.
Also goes to judgment. Any 44 yr old is already in a high risk pregnancy. The down syndrome diagnosis only heightens that risk. Premature delivery makes strike three. I know no one who would get on a plane for so many hours and then travel additional time by car to go to a less than equipped rural hospital for such a risky birth.
Either way, it's not good. Reflects poorly on her as a Mom.
This coming from a 44 yr old mother of three.
Of course, if anyone asks my age in the future, I'll claim amnesia.
August 31, 2008 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
And presumably she believes abstinence only education works.
This is a "faith-based" belief on her part, of course.
September 1, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. I also want to point out that a major news anchor apparently gushed about how tough it was that Palin got on the plane in labor. I have written ACOG (American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) to request they consider some kind of statement about her irresponsible behavior. There are many child bearing aged women who find her a wonderful example of what they believe in.
Oh, BTW. I'm an RN, 31 years. Lived in AK from '80 to '94 and worked critical care at Sisters of Providence from '84 to '93. I saw one comment from a woman who still lives there and had a high risk child in big trouble at the other major hospital in Anchorage that had to be sent to SoP because they were better equipped to handle the infants needs for a ventilator.
I am also a Unitarian-Universalist - the denomination of the Tennessee church where the gunman interrupted the kids performance about a month ago. We have had a really excellent sexuality education program for over 20 years. I totally believe that there is plenty of reason to expose and discuss her beliefs, how well they have worked in her own family and how she thinks we should be forced to follow them when her own actions and success are far short of convincing.
September 1, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
These are excellent comments.
What is truly outraging, too, is that now that her daughter's pregnancy has been revealed, she is trumpeting this as a 'pro-life' 'pro-family values' arrangement where the daughter is being 'married off' in a manner that speaks to political expedience, not concern for the welfare of her daughter.
Now that the pregnancy has been revealed, the marriage must quickly follow. What century are we living in? I am disturbed by all the commenters here incensed about the supposed violation of the family's privacy, when it is clear that Palin is simply using her daughter as a billboard for 'family values.'
September 1, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, it's okay for Palin to self-righteously lecture other women on their choices regarding abortion, but not okay for us to question hers? Seriously? How can it be that it is okay for her to believe that no woman, even a rape victim, should be endowed with the right to choose whether to terminate the pregnancy, yet she is immune from our questioning whether she really is the pro-child person she says she is?
You do get, do you not, that anti-choicers like Palin try to hide their misogyny by presenting themselves as pro-child, right? So whether she really is pro-child is now fair game. Sorry.
September 1, 2008 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
This goes to judgment and possibly honesty. As a mother of three (including a set of twins)I'm at a loss to find any justification of Palin's Dallas trip. First, high risk pregnant mothers (down's sydrome and over 40)would not be cleared to fly. Especially when leaking amniotic fluid. When a baby is 35/36 weeks there is still the chance that the lungs might not be developed (this was the case with my twins) and her OB would want her immediately under care where there is a NICU if possible. Why? Because if the lungs are not developed enough or there are other problems a NICU is prepared to deal with it. At the very least, if Palin were truly "leaking amniotic fluid" her OB would have met her in Anchorage at one of the hospitals that has a NICU. This just doesn't pass the smell test. And yes, she may be trying to protect her daughter - but now that same daughter is going to under the extreme scrutiny of the national press - how is that protecting her?
It is very clear that McCain's team did not thorough vet this VP choice, which goes to HIS executive decision abilities.
September 1, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey John,
Great post with a lot of leg work, cudos! Since you are collecting info on all available pics, I have what I believe is some deep background for this picture taken I believe on March 6-7, the weekend she announced her pregnancy, by KTVA 11 reporter Andrea Gusty.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30076181@N02/2814199887/in/photostream/
If interested let me know and I'll send a full copy.
September 1, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's just something that should be looked into. If it's proven false people should shut their trap, if not then she is Thomas Eagleton. I won't touch this one though, that is for sure.
August 31, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"to suggest that Palin, in consultation with her doctor acted negligently in the matter of the birth of her child is really Ann Coulterish."
Since when is stating a fact "Ann Coulterish?" You obviously don't know anything about pregnant women and airline flights. We are talking about flying an equivalent distance of New York to LA and then halfway back to NY.
I don't understand why people who don't want to discuss this topic keep telling those of us who do to stop talking. Stop reading these topics if you don't like them!
August 31, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't told anyone "to stop talking". I'm simply disagreeing. I don't understand how it is you are unable to understand the difference.
August 31, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, by the way no one has established the "fact" that Palin acted negligently in the matter.
Her doctor was designated the "country’s Family Practice Physician of the Year in 2002" and the local hospital provides maternity care.
I think it is exceedingly arrogant of those who do, to think, based upon information gleaned from the internet that they are more qualified than Palin and her doctor to determine what is appropriate.
August 31, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no way her judgment was sound here - unless it's a cover-up of her daughter's pregnancy, quite likely from sexual abuse, which most often involves a relative. If it is a cover-up, we might want to respect the daughter and drop this. Except for the moral dimension: the daughter should have had an abortion, which would have avoided any potential cascade of lies, and not left the family with a child who is the product of sexual abuse.
If it's not all that, and she really risked the baby with those flights, Palin has horribly bad judgment. But then, all creationists do. Not necessarily this bad though.
August 31, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bunk. Total bunk.
September 1, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Total bullpucky.
September 1, 2008 4:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
No no Gasket this is great stuff. Not only did she hide her daughter's pregnancy and pretend the baby was her's now its because some relative was sexually abusing her. What do you think, can this go any lower? I'm totally enthralled. There was many a time during this campaign season when I was angry but now its become a comedic farce.
The show must go on.
September 1, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Her doctor was designated the "country’s Family Practice Physician of the Year in 2002" and the local hospital provides maternity care"
I only recently rejoined the world of the living, and my cyber skills are limited. I forget where I saw this, but this was submitted somewhere as further proof of the conspiracy, as it was Palin who gave the doctor this honor.
September 1, 2008 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
This doctor was also Palin's close friend and had received awards from Palin herself. This was not a typical doctor-patient relationship. But again, you fail to see that this is an issue because Palin made it an issue. Anyone who has the fucking gall to tell other women what they should and should not do with their bodies is fair game on her own reproductive choices. If she was pro-choice, and not a self-rightoeous hypocrite, this would be a non-starter.
September 1, 2008 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, where is the hypocrisy? Do you even know what that means? Doubtful. She is pro life, she had the baby. The end. Get a clue.
September 1, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amazing.
With all the political things that are obviously, objectively, manifestly wrong with Palin as a VP candidate, some people on this site are obsessing about amniotic fluid!
Folks, sit back and let the National Enquirer do its self-appointed job.
They are far better at it.
BTW, if you are an Obama supporter, you should want this ditz to stay on the McCain ticket.
August 31, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, her off would be better, but not because everyone is playing around online with water-break-gate. Imagine how inept it would make him look with so little time left to go.
August 31, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The last time I saw a reaction like this to a story was when the Enquirer broke the Edwards story. We know how that worked out.
Something in this whole story stinks, and I think people are going to start to smell it all over the country in the next couple days.
September 1, 2008 3:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great work. The Repubs would be all over this if the situation were reversed.
Tree Huggers Fight Back.
September 1, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh goodness. I'm embarrassed that this is the top reader story on TPM. Leave this crap to the Kos nut jobs.
September 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not one to always fear backlash, but coming off of a long primary against a woman whose campaign charged sexism, I think that the appearance of sexism should be avoided by people who wish to see Barack Obama take the oath of office.
We should leave this topic to newspapers and the Enquirer. If this revealed to be meaningless, let the press take the hit, not Obama and his supporters.
August 31, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hear the man.
August 31, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
jdw: Good idea. Moratorium on discussing Sarah Palin for at least a week. Let's let hungry journalists trying to make a name for themselves go Into The Wild and try to dig something up on her since McCain's team OBVIOUSLY never vetted the Governor. (Let's hop MSM provides a budget for journalists to make the trek to AK.)
August 31, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep.
I fear this is actually a setup.
If false rumors were planted, and then "proven" false, it would play on the victim/sympathy card for Palin.
Really, this baby business is a little weird, not really any of our business, and ultimately irrelevant.
Palin is a fringe rightwing nutjob. Her freaky radical views should be topic number one. A creationist in the white house??! Not abortion in the case of rape/incest?? No contraception even among married couples???? Yikes.
On top of it, she has ethical problems. I'd prefer to let her dig her own grave lying and flipfloping on her wrongdoing. Let the big sharktank that is the national media spotlight do its job.
August 31, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
You make a good point. The appeal for me is that this is something that involves facts. As Reagan so accidently said, "Facts are stubborn things." There is something odd here; there is an ultimate answer.
But you can't go after that other stuff. She has idiotic beliefs, and there is no place for dialog. She chooses to believe that the Earth is 5,000 years old, and science, facts, have no meaning. You may as well explain string theory to your dog.
September 1, 2008 1:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
One important reason why this is relevant is that the Republicans and Palin are exploiting this baby as proof that "Palin not only talks the talk but she walks the walk." Translated, "she not only says she is 'pro-life' she has lived it."
Check out the videos of her acceptance where the child is bounced around getting full exposure and he is only 4 months old!
There are other reasons why this is relevant but this is the most deplorable one.
Too many people are involved in this cover-up for it to stay quiet.
August 31, 2008 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agathena,
Nonsense. You don't have the data the doctor and mother relied on. Neither does this AClown John Nail.
Without her medical test data, labs, ultrasounds, heart monitoring, you can't conclude that a NICU would be necessary in every Downs case. You don't seem to have data on the severity of Trig's Downs and how that figures into doc's and mom's decision making.
In other words, for all of the super-official sounding cross examination on this irrelevant issue by Nail, heaping evidence immaterial to her qualification to be a VP on top of personal attack innuendo ad absurdum, this is just a sorry, hypocritical witch hunt.
And it's exactly the type of thing Obama says he doesn't want to see anymore. I agree with him. I guess Nail and Steevo are trying to become the blogger Ken Starr's of the Demogogic arm of the Democratic Party. Why not just cut that arm off and let it join LaRouche. It's about as rational.
August 31, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mike - this is the Clown responding to you. We've tried to provide some facts and details to this bizarre story. I am no Ken Starr or a loon but just a man who has 3 kids all born normally fortunately. I have friends who have had premies from 4 - 12 weeks early and have a college roommate who is a NICU MD. A little research on the googles also goes a long way as well as some of your fellow posters who are Md's
Lets try this a different way. If you were the father what level of risk is acceptable for your unborn/newborn regardless of any pre birth diagnosis? ZERO
Now look at the facts as Palin, her doctor and the news present them:
This child is 4 weeks early and has Downs- a double whammy for problems. The mother just flew 12 hours and her water had broken/was leaking opening up infection possibilities. The 2 NICU's in AK are within minutes of the airport, capable of handling anything and you choose drive another hour to a regional medical center that is equipped for normal deliveries and you use your family practice physician for delivery. Premies routinely at 36 weeks can have lung development issues and Downs kids 50% of the time have heart problems and 10% of the time digestive system issues.
So your point is that challenging this type of behavior and judgment as reckless and not ready for primetime in the Oval office is somehow inappropriate?
August 31, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wrong. I was 38 years old with my first pregnancy. (Actually tested okay genetically but turned out to have autism which is not relevant here.) I was 36-1/2 weeks' pregnant and got my doc's permission to fly on Christmas eve. I had had a "perfect" pregnancy. I was already in labor and didn't realize it -- back pains at 8 months, ask a woman. Anyway, they took me to the hospital on Xmas morning in Junction City Kansas. A little community hospital -- the only one in town. The 70+ year-old doc in charge on Xmas was told by the one OB/GYN in town that day that if ANYTHING changed, they were to send me to the nearest regional medical center. That night, in the middle of a blizzard, I was transported by ambulance 60 miles to Topeka, where I ultimately delivered my premature, otherwise healthy baby, who had to stay in the hospital for a month to catch up. Her story simply does not make any sense. Her judgement or lack thereof and her family issues were really between her and the people of Alaska -- until McCain chose her to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. What is happening now was inevitable under these circumstances. McCain should never have picked someone (his "soul mate") without full vetting. If true, her daughter got pregnant and the family covered it up -- like so many families have done. Ms. Palin doesn't strike me as stupid and must have known the impact this type of story would have on her daughter. She apparently chose her personal ambition over her family. So much for family values. There's just a lot of stuff here that isn't logical and/or is contradictory. The threads are being pulled and the truth will ultimately come out. She may be a barracuda, but she is swimming with the sharks and the sharks smell blood.
August 31, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Focus on judgment and decision-making. And stay away from theatrics. Use only facts to critique judgment and decision-making, in effect "character." In the end, that's all that matters. Doesn't matter who the mother of the kid is. Only thing that matters is the story Palin tells and what it says about judgment and decision-making.
Keep it simple. Keep it factual; assume her story is factual. Then ask... is this good judgment? Is this the kind of decision-making you want in the leader of the free world? (if they ever accord us any respect again!!!)
August 31, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well Put! The poor baby and daughter are not really relevant but will be collateral damage from her behavior.
August 31, 2008 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think everyone commenting here misses the essential point in that, with a list of "choices" a proverbial mile long (not withstanding how she made them), Ms Palin clearly qualifies as PRO-CHOICE. Judging by the pants-pissing exultation for this unknown national neophyte exibited by the demented denizens of the country's lunatic leper colony, I'd say that they don't get it either.
How nice for a women to have reproductive choices, even if she takes advantage of none of them. And how nice to live in a country that guarantees these choices to all women as a matter of law. So, why then does the reactionary republican party celebrate an unknown woman for vice president of the country who claims she wants none of these choices available for any woman but herself? Orwellian Doublethink? Typical rank republican-party hypocrisy? Utter and boundless republican-party cynicism? Just asking ...
August 31, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word.
August 31, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way Dr.Cathy Baldwin-Johnson works at the Providence Matanuska-Susitna Valley health care facility, which has an NICU facility.
This post would fit really well at No Quarter.
August 31, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris the NICU is at the main Providence compex in Anchorage - 6 miles from the airport not the local facility Trig was born in 45 miles away.
All local NICU issues go here. That is the entire point of why this all makes no sense.
You fly 12 hours - get away without delivering in the air and then bypass the ICU for a local hospital for a premie birth of a Downs Syndrome child w/ a family practicioner, not even a full time Ob GYN.
Something just isn't right with this equation. Sarah Palin is obviously a good mom and smart lady.
Even if she took the risk to get home the right thing to do is go to the hospital you found.
August 31, 2008 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris, I know I am wasting my time here, but you don't know what your are talking about. Your link is to Providence Hospital in Anchorage. All the news articles I have read says she delivered her baby in Wasilla at the Mat-Su Regional Hospital. Have you ever been to Alaska? The only NICU in the state is in Anchorage.
August 31, 2008 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
No I have never been to Alaska. And I see that you are correct the NICU is at an Anchorage though Providence does have a hospital in Wasilla.
I guess that settles it, Palin was negligent. That's heavy sarcasm, by the way.
August 31, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steevo, thanks....the only NICU 6 miles from Anchorage airport after a 12 hour flight, leaking fluid with contractions 1-2 per hour....4 weeks premie and Downs diagnosed...what am I missing?
August 31, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
This didn't come through on post below.
Providence Matanuska Health Care
Telephone Number:
(907) 352-6200
Facility Location:
1700 East Bogard Road, Suite 100
Wasilla, Alaska 99654
August 31, 2008 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been to Alaska. In fact, I've delivered two babies in Anchorage and you are absolutely right to question any decision to drive TO Wasilla FROM Anchorage to deliver a premature and special needs child while your in early labor. My children were past their due dates and my doctor insisted that I stay with relatives in Anchorage and not in Wasilla when I was close to delivery and I wasn't even leaking fluid. Alaska heath care is poor even in Anchorage, but outside Anchorage, forget about it! All sorts of Alaskans have to travel to Anchorage for care.
And, let's not forget that this is April in Alaska when the roads are not the best. I'm not yet buying the whole "the baby isn't hers" hype--but something here just doesn't make sense.
August 31, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for some real life input. I only care about her judgment in the national political debate - I am sorry that her kids are going to be dragged into the truth coming out..
August 31, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
No you're not.
September 1, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
And one other thing....
As a tactical campaign matter, a significant number of American voters qualify as "low information" types; and the reactionary repugnant party has made much electoral hay over the decades distracting, misleading, and confusing this demographic with virulent, viral vituperation repeated ad nauseum in sub-rational sound-byte slander. Democrats at the presidential level have become famous for losing because they do not undersand the primitive appeal that lurid scandal -- no matter how fictitious -- has for too many Americans. Someone once told Democrat Adlai Stevenson that "every thinking American is for you!" Replied the eventual loser Stevenson: "Yes, but I need a majority." No successful candidate for the Presidency of the United States ever succeeds by appealing solely to rational, articulate people. In America, "inquiring minds want to know ..."
Therefore, assisting a tabloid story like this to go viral for at least a week or two might do all the damage necessary -- from a Democratic Party point of view. Those "high information" American voters who care about modernity and rational government policy will vote Democratic in any event. Such people do not constitute a majority, however. Somehow, the low-information types must get their fear-and-loathing fix one way or another; and as a Democratic Party partisan, I would much rather that the shit-stories revolve around irresponsible, reckless republicans than anyone else. I can always take a shower later and wash the stink away -- after President Barack Obama takes his oath of office.
As the Irish always sing: "You take the High Road and I'll take the Low Road and we'll get to the White House instead of THEM."
August 31, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent points. This is the Jerry Springer crowd we are talking about. They LOVE a good scandal, God bless 'em. I hope this thing explodes all over the headlines.
September 1, 2008 1:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am, am I. Here's the link again
August 31, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris - search "intensive care" on the regional site search link and here is what you get for the Anchorage hospital. Steevo confirmed the same...I'm being critical of you at all this is confusing with these rural areas and named facilities. A town of 9000 can't support a NICU. Even in a city the size of Atlanta we only have a few.
"Newborn Intensive Care Unit (NICU)
Our 38-bed level II & level III unit is the regional referral center for the State of Alaska serving all Alaskans including the Alaska Native and military populations. We do this through our LifeGuard Air Ambulance transport services with a specialized prenatal team, and our Providence House, which provides guest housing for parents and family traveling from outside Anchorage.
The types of medical challenges treated in the unit include: pre-term birth, babies born at 22 weeks gestation and weighing as little as 1 pound, 1 ounce; Babies born with an infection; Babies who are stressed during birth and need more attention than in the newborn nursery; Babies born with a congenital anomaly such as spina bifida, bowel conditions and heart defects."
August 31, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see that you are correct I looked through the Providence Alaska site and was led through the Providence Matanuska Health Care, in Wasilla, to the NICU info, which apparently refers to the facility in Anchorage.
My mistake. None-the-less, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. There are lots of things for which Palin should be criticized but this matter is not one of them.
August 31, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris - not a matter of right or wrong for us voters - the dog does not hunt in terms of a woman of this quality behaving negligently for an unborn child. Not her MO at all.
The truth is gonna come out and unfortunately since McCain's folks did not have time to fully vet her her kids are going to be hurt and she is going to be disgraced rather than simply doing something to protect her daughter like people have done before and will in the future.
August 31, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Trollspeak.
September 1, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here is a question that came to my mind. Does the baby really have Downs syndrome? Or is this meant to foreclose speculation that about why he may look different enough from his brother and sisters to not be a sibling?
August 31, 2008 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The above is speculative. Given Sarah Palin has lied on other issues, it is not unreasonable to speculate that she may have lied on this issue.
However, the greater issue of Palin's judgment in taking risks with travel to Texas and back, delaying her return to give a speech even though her water broke, is much more important.
The story of Palin's Troopergate scandal is also a key area of focus. Troopergate shows John McCain's lack of judgment in picking a running mate who has misused her power in office.
August 31, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
digital - I had not thought of that before but had seen a post on it. Look at who the doctor is. She is not an OB GYN but a family practitioner who specializes in child abuse, drug abuse and issues like that.
She is a friend of Palin who has helped her and appointed to her state health commission.
This lady must see all kinds of issues and confidentiality must be key....this is only going to get weirder...
August 31, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here are two things that may inform the issue some more:
1) a) Here is a photo provided by the Heath family (Sarah Palin's maiden name). I use it here to confirm identity because the next photo does not specify who is who:
www.daylife.com/photo/0aWc9Rw0YUaWS
b) The Heath family also provided this photo, Sarah Palin pregnant with an earlier child: (maybe her first)
news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080831/480/529a19dfc6774f308117d4be16d30c8d/
c) The above photo shows a pregnant Sarah Palin *who is showing* and has put on a normal amount of weight for a pregnancy. The photo of Palin showing is in stark contrast to photos of Palin from before the latest birth.
d) The best photos of Sarah for us to find would be at the energy conference of the National Governors Association in mid-April. Was there a energy conference of the National Governors Association in mid-April? Serious question.*
* No meeting is listed here, that I can find:
www.nga.org/portal/site/nga/menuitem.6398ca27f6d963268a278110501010a0/?vgnextoid=bc6b58fb74ee1010VgnVCM1000001a01010aRCRD&vgnextfmt=publications
2) Subheading d) above may seem over the top. Well, the next thing gets weirder...
a) Family picture from 2007. Click photo again for closeup. Eldest daughter on right.
gov.state.ak.us/photos/PalinFamily_Outside_v01.jpg
b) Notice the ring finger.
c) Family picture from two days ago. Click photo again for closeup. Eldest daughter on right.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Palin_family.jpg
d) Notice the ring finger.
August 31, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember, you can't make firm assumptions from a ring on a finger or not. Interesting facts. Lots of interesting facts being noticed here.
September 1, 2008 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ring is not a wedding ring but some sort of ring w/ a stone.
September 1, 2008 8:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but what finger is it on?
September 2, 2008 8:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, her actions in apparently pursing the firing of her ex-brother-in-law for personal reasons amounts to abuse of authority which is much more significant issue than the she said, he said of the conspiracy theory related to her or her daughter's child.
August 31, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
She abused her authority with regards to Trooper Wooten, the Creamery Board and Proposition 4 (anti-mining initiative to some, pro clean water initiative to others).
The Trooper story is common knowledge.
She canned the entire Creamery Board for refusing $600k in State Funds to support it despite all the financial forecasting telling her it was futile.
She publicly took sides on Proposition 4, against it - AND - used the official State of Alaska website to promote her PERSONAL VIEWS on it.
The Alaska Clean Water Initiative
http://www.elections.alaska.gov/petitions/07wtr3.pdf
It was impossible to find any 'objective' info on Prop 4 - the best I could do was the actual initiative itself. Judge for yourself.
It was defeated because by and large most Alaskans feel we have plenty of laws - we just need someone to bother enforcing them.
August 31, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
She abused her authority with regards to Trooper Wooten, the Creamery Board and Proposition 4 (anti-mining initiative to some, pro clean water initiative to others).
The Trooper story is common knowledge.
She canned the entire Creamery Board for refusing $600k in State Funds to support it despite all the financial forecasting telling her it was futile.
She publicly took sides on Proposition 4, against it - AND - used the official State of Alaska website to promote her PERSONAL VIEWS on it.
The Alaska Clean Water Initiative
http://www.elections.alaska.gov/petitions/07wtr3.pdf
It was impossible to find any 'objective' info on Prop 4 - the best I could do was the actual initiative itself. Judge for yourself.
It was defeated because by and large most Alaskans feel we have plenty of laws - we just need someone to bother enforcing them.
August 31, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
My recommendation: Drop the speculation about the daughter. Even if it pans out, it's a no-win situation for critics - "how dare you invade my poor daughter's privacy? I'm supermom for protecting her!"
Criticizing her judgment for how she claims she endangered the kid - borderline but legitimate. But draw the line there, please.
August 31, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are 100% right the problem is that it continues to lead back to Trig and Bristol....
The only relevant issue is the judgment one...
August 31, 2008 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm in the camp that is skeptical that this story will prove to have any merit, but I think this point is really off base. If there would be any truth to the very far-fetched baby-swapping rumors, Sarah Palin would be unquestionable deemed unfit for the vice presidency. Besides which, she would most likely be guilty of medical insurance fraud, forging birth certificates, possible tax fraud, etc. It's a question in the public interest and one which can easily be verified. This will surely be settled very soon and when, presumably, the rumors are put to rest, we can move on to the most serious problem with Palin's choice: it demonstrates McCain's temperamental unsuitability for the White House. As someone else on this site said, "He's not a maverick. He's erratic."
September 1, 2008 4:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
They fly women from all over Alaska to have their premature babies in Anchorage at either Alaska Regional or Providence - Providence is the only one that can offer advanced neonatal care.
For the record I really don't think she was covering up for an alleged teenage pregnancy.
I do see the judgement question about driving past hospitals more prepared to handle a sick newborn.
The question was never asked here in Alaska because:
(A) bad form to criticize the method/circumstance of any birth, it's a private family decision (as abortion should be also).
(B) the baby was born with Down's, a devastating diagnosis to anyone.
The only REAL question should be asked of Sarah Palin is:
Would she support laws that ban abortion, especially when there is a confirmed diagnosis of severe mental or physical disability?
The abortion debate goes much further than simple 'abortion on demand'. Banning abortion removes the choice of couples (even married ones) to plan their family - especially in light of devastating prenatal diagnosis.
My husband had an interesting point on this:
In these economic times, with the costs of raising a family (and educating them) skyrocketing - would the GOP/RNC really try to force anyone to have a disabled child and care for it after birth?
It's a massive financial burden that can pull resources from other siblings and financially devastate anyone.
No one said it was easy, but what always seems to be missing from the debate is the right married couples have to determine their family's advantages or to limit their disadvantages.
The reason it isn't talked about is because people who face this decision to terminate an unhealthy child or pregnancy want to do so in private without all the political scrutiny.
August 31, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone know when the daughter returned to school after her bout with mono? Four months with mono is also outrageously long. But I am curious as to when she returned to school.
August 31, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
It has been said she did not return for 4 or 5 months.
It is also weird that Palin's site has been scrubbed of pics as well as Fox News Sean Hannity's site scrubbed a picture of Palin during that time period.
September 1, 2008 2:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
What is disturbing is that this kind of misogynistic smear campaign is allowed on this website.
Nothing happened. The baby is fine. End of story. This non-story is BOGUS.
John Nail proves himself to be a troll.
August 31, 2008 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am no "troll". Pay attention to the facts here. Judgment matters and it had nothing to do with the baby or who the mother is.
At best Palin showed total disregard for Trig and at worst it is some type of coverup.
Either way it matters for a potential VP and shows her bad judgment and the McCain impulse pick and vetting process as incompetent.
August 31, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The facts are that the baby is alive and well, and Palin hasn't committed a crime by flying in an airplane while she's pregnant. The baby wasn't harmed in any way, so, sorry, but there is no "total disregard" to be leveled at her. Your conspiracy fantasy argument would never hold up in a court. You've proved nothing.
If you're not a troll, are you just plain stupid?
August 31, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's a troll. Digital and alaskamommy are also trolls who are "responding" to the conversation. Check the number of respondents who just happen to be jumping in to agree who are first posting on this story.
September 1, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe we can shut down the post by hitting "Send" a thousand times. :-)
btw, thanks for commenting throughout the thread, gdubs. Gives me hope that TPM won't be infected by this disgusting smear forever.
September 1, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
My pleasure, and you, too, though then I realized that I was ruining my Labor Day by participating in this bullshit so I walked away. Stopping for a few minutes and then I'm going back to catching up on my reading. Tag -- you're in.
September 1, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone know when the daughter returned to school after her bout with mono? Four months with mono is also outrageously long. But I am curious as to when she returned to school.
August 31, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you kidding? This calls in to count her oerall judgment. Get your head out of your ass if you think this is a smear. SHE is the one who flew after her water broke or was leaking or whatever. If that is her judgment, it sucks. She is as reckless as McCain.
August 31, 2008 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you kidding? This calls in to count her overall judgment. Get your head out of your ass if you think this is a smear. SHE is the one who flew after her water broke or was leaking or whatever. If that is her judgment, it sucks. She is as reckless as McCain.
August 31, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great...server errors and double/triple posts.
Sorry!
August 31, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great...server errors and double/triple posts.
Sorry!
August 31, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
RELEASE THE MEDICAL RECORDS
August 31, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please, please, please drop the Palin baby attack. I have no clue if it's true (the going into labor in Texas, then flying home to Alaska, then driving out of Anchorage to a small village to deliver is fishy). But if something seems too good to be true, then more likely than not it's a Rove plant. You can just imagine the McCain team, after the buzz around this purported scandal has risen to a crescendo, holding a press conference with tens of millions of viewers, where Palin shows the blood test results proving she is actually the mother, and giving a heartfelt speech against the smear politics that are out to destroy her because she's a working mother. Please, please do not follow the story.
If there's even a shred of credibility to it, it's been confirmed that there's an experienced team of love-child experts on the case right now. We'll hear about it soon enough without dirtying our own hands.
August 31, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Please, please do not follow the story."
Honey, what a few political junkies say in comment boxes on DailyKos or TPM isn't gonna change the world one way or the other. These things are viral; that's why even pleas of "PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE STORY" just spread the meme a little further...
September 1, 2008 4:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
OMG. Calling it "Water Breakgate" is seriously hilarious.
August 31, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha yea that alone is worth getting this to the MSM
August 31, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please, please, please drop the Palin baby attack. I have no clue if it's true (the going into labor in Texas, then flying home to Alaska, then driving out of Anchorage to a small village to deliver is fishy). But if something seems too good to be true, then more likely than not it's a Rove plant. You can just imagine the McCain team, after the buzz around this purported scandal has risen to a crescendo, holding a press conference with tens of millions of viewers, where Palin shows the blood test results proving she is actually the mother, and giving a heartfelt speech against the smear politics that are out to destroy her because she's a working mother. Please, please do not follow the story.
If there's even a shred of credibility to it, it's been confirmed that there's an experienced team of love-child experts on the case right now. We'll hear about it soon enough without dirtying our own hands.
August 31, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zephyrus - this story comes directly from Palin and the Anchorage Daily News - go to the post and read the 4/22 article.
September 1, 2008 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I appreciate the good intentions of the people who are saying "don't go there."
But friends, we're not going there. Obama is not going there. The media is headed there. In buses and vans and planes. We're just tuning in.
For instance, Andrew Sullivan is giving the story oxygen.
It's also interesting that the McCain campaign is alleged to have just sent a team of eight people to Wasilla to do some after-the-fact vetting -- aka "clean up squad." Hat tip via John Cole's Balloon Juice.
I think there might -- just might -- actually be a story here somewhere. It'll be sad. I'd rather win on the issues. On the other hand, John McCain's tendency to make crazy impulsive decisions is one of the issues.
August 31, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, it is interesting that an eight-man team is booked into a hotel in Wasila. AH's site says they are from the McCain campaign to do postchoice vetting and he says the information is from the best possible source.
Vetting or scrubbing? I believe the latter. The media should follow them around like hawks or the DNC should shell out some money and send their own team up to be sure we don't get document destruction or worse, replacement. We do know for a fact that websites with Palin related information are being redacted up there.
September 1, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
The media following the RNC like hawks.
I have trouble beieving that.
September 1, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
i agree totally with those who caution us about jumping on this babygate story. it is intriguing and i do think it warrants investigating but not by anyone even remotely associated with obama, not even plain ole supporters on this site. obama suffered some serious backlash from hillary supporters for things he never endorsed or took part of...he was even punished for our views on the blogs..how do you think he will fair if they pin this baby scandal on him and biden?
i am hoping and praying that the enquire picks up where alaskan's left off b/c something is fishy....
i do worry as to why a healthy 16 yr old baby would produce a down syndrome child? who is the father of that child? if she s a victim of child abuse, who is responsible? why is bristol stuck with the baby? shouldn't they have a nanny to perform that task? to pretend this story doesn't stink is tpyical wimpy democratic behavior..we dont have the stomach for nastiness. ...to pursue this story with gusto is political suicide for obama and his team! what gives???
August 31, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
September 1, 2008 4:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Serves us right, huh? Hurts so good, c'mon baby make it hurt so good!
September 1, 2008 5:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
i agree totally with those who caution us about jumping on this babygate story. it is intriguing and i do think it warrants investigating but not by anyone even remotely associated with obama, not even plain ole supporters on this site. obama suffered some serious backlash from hillary supporters for things he never endorsed or took part of...he was even punished for our views on the blogs..how do you think he will fair if they pin this baby scandal on him and biden?
i am hoping and praying that the enquire picks up where alaskan's left off b/c something is fishy....
i do worry as to why a healthy 16 yr old baby would produce a down syndrome child? who is the father of that child? if she s a victim of child abuse, who is responsible? why is bristol stuck with the baby? shouldn't they have a nanny to perform that task? to pretend this story doesn't stink is tpyical wimpy democratic behavior..we dont have the stomach for nastiness. ...to pursue this story with gusto is political suicide for obama and his team! what gives???
August 31, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's also possible -- via gawker, so take with grains of salt -- that the baby is really Sarah's but that Bristol is also with child. She's wearing an engagement ring, and this would explain the rather suspicious quote McCain's people gave to the NYT apologizing for not having time to vet the *rest* of the Palin family.
August 31, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey folks, couldn't these "rumors" be stuff planted by Rove?
Remember Dan Rather and memogate??
False documents were floated, picked up by CBS, and then "revealed" to be fakes. This was a good distraction from Bush's very real AWOL from the military.
Stupid rumors about her baby seem like a distraction from her fringe rightwing views and ethical misconduct.
August 31, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
My understanding was they were unverified not fake. And that no one ever dismissed the content, only the audacity of reporting it. Much like McClellen. No one ever said it's not true...they just attacked him.
August 31, 2008 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, those docs were planted. Without a doubt.
Once leaked to Rather, then "someone" pointed out they were not the right characters for a typewriter of that era. Yep, your average Joe knows that kind of thing. LOL
August 31, 2008 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe the biggest issue here is judgement.
Even if the baby is not the daughter's but the Governors, what kind of woman with a 5 month old-baby and 3 other under age children would accept a nomination for Vice President when it involves constant travel and 20 hour a day campaigning? And when the baby is a special needs child, participating in a vice presidential campaign borders on lunancy. This makes absolutely no sense!
I just have to go there and question her motherly instinct. She may be a hard-core conservative but she missed the part about raising children (without the help of a village) and family values.
P.S. Teenagers can have down-syndrome babies -- it's just very rare.
August 31, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if the baby is not the daughter's but the Governors, what kind of woman with a 5 month old-baby and 3 other under age children would accept a nomination for Vice President when it involves constant travel and 20 hour a day campaigning? And when the baby is a special needs child, participating in a vice presidential campaign borders on lunancy.
An opportunist
August 31, 2008 10:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a special-needs campaign.
September 1, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Family values? From the crazed rightwing lunatics who think that a zygote is sacred, but once born, the culture of liufe disappears, and then its death penalty, war, and negligence.
Palin's family life is the least of our worries.
August 31, 2008 10:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
blockquote>Paw, Paw, where's my Maw?????
August 31, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey folks, check out the headline on this story in the London Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4647965.ece
It calls the rumors "unfounded." In which case . . . why the headline?
I think by "unfounded" they mean "unverified, so far."
The tip-off, in my view, is the quote to NYT saying they didn't have time to vet the rest of the family. The baby may or may not be Sarah's, but something is up. And it's not going to stay quiet once it's a headline in the London Times.
August 31, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Without having heard any of this before, what first struck me was that Mrs. "I'm all about family and wholesome Christian values" is ready to run for Vice President a few months after giving birth to a Downs Syndrome baby.
Take parenting seriously, do ya, Sarah?
Take the fate of the world seriously, do ya, Sarah?
So, while you're busy getting caught up on all that stuff that's been going on outside of Alaska (Iraq War, economy in the shitter, etc.), learning at the feet of the master, who's taking care of the special needs baby?
I don't take any of what I've read in this post for granted, but the one thing I'm convinced of is that there needs to be a thorough investigation. If she's not completely open about this, she deserves to be the subject of any and all of the rumors that are flying around.
August 31, 2008 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.andrewhalcro.com/vetting_the_veep_post_announcement
Team of Republicans goes to Wasilla. A little late . . .
August 31, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, here's Michelle Malkin rapping Andrew Sullivan's knucles for giving the story oxygen: "even if this were true, so what? And as I mentioned below, if it were true, it actually makes Palin look saintly in her devotion to family."
I'm not interested in arguing with Michelle about the morality of the issue. I would just point out that when right-wing flacks start preparing "even if this were true" fall-back positions, it's worth keeping an eye open.
August 31, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right, Alex39, the rightwing pundits ALL will be back-pedaling like crazy by tomorrow with the "even if it's true" rationales because Sarah Palin is FINALLY getting vetted, via the web.
It's pretty obvious: She wasn't pregnant this time around. See the photos at the links I posted.
August 31, 2008 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Drudge is also covering the story. Flags it as a story about lefty bloggers. But that's a way of covering it . . .
August 31, 2008 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the article from March 9, 2008 with the photo of family:
www.adn.com/front/story/339587.html
Why would they use a photo from 2006 to adorn an article from 2008?
Why would the other location of the photo with the "2006" caption be so clear in specifying the year of the last child's birth?
Compare the photo above to the photo from two days ago:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Palin_family.jpg
5 1/2 months have passed since the first photo was originally published. Do the children look closer to 6 months older or do they look closer to 2 years older?
I am not sure.
August 31, 2008 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
John, you said that the March 2008 Airport photo link had no mention of pregnancy, but I found this sentence: 'Of course I had to check out the “Hottest Governor in the US” and quickly turned to see her pregnant (she has since had her baby) with bags and daughter in tote.'
Do you have a cached version of the page without that sentence? Now that would be interesting indeed!
August 31, 2008 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, but the write-up for the March photo is from April 27, nine days after everyone in Alaska was told their governor gave birth. Also, the governor announced she was pregnant on March 5 ( www.adn.com/front/story/336402.html ), and could easily have been wearing padding.
(These exist as well: www.empathybelly.org/home.html )
September 1, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
The real issue is:
Sarah Palin is against all contraception and abortion - that means every bit of choice a woman has. She thinks she has the right to control my sex life. She wants all up in my shit.
Well by god, she has to account for hers. If the baby is her daughter's, then American mothers of young women of sexual age need to know that. They need to understand that if Sarah Palin has her way, they will be raising their grandchildren, just like she is.
And she started the whole thing with her ridiculous lies about it. Shades of George W Bush.
August 31, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most certainly. If this is what Sarah Palin would have all teen pregnant girls do as a solution to their unwanted pregnancies, Americans need to know.
It is absurd.
And if life is to be cherished why would a pro-lifer need to cover-up a teenage pregnancy? These pro-life people contradict themselves all over the place. No to abortion and yes to death penalty!
Too many lies coming from this Palin, and so obvious!!
September 1, 2008 1:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I agree, Tena. On the one hand we're supposed to commend Palin's saintly behavior in not aborting a child with Down's syndrome (and I really do think that is admirable, if true). But the only reason that that decision is commendable is that she had a choice, which she didn't exercise, to have an abortion. If she had her way, other women would be forced to follow her saintly example.
As for Bristol's pregnancy, I agree with Obama that we should drop it. (Despite my deep reservations about the desirability of resolving a youthful pregnancy by having the young girl and young man get married. Marriages before the age of 20 have a 90% divorce rate.) Bristol, the mysterious Levi, and the Palin family have made their decision, and the decision is rightfully theirs -- my only legitimate cavil is that they want to force their decision on the rest of us who might face similar situations.
September 1, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no question in my mind that Palin faked her pregnancy but then, I'm a woman. I've been pregnant. I've paid attention when my women friends have become pregnant.
I know, as most mothers would know, that a women who has given birth FOUR TIMES before, and looked like this during a previous pregnancy:
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo/080831/480/529a19dfc6774f308117d4be16d30c8d/
... doesn't have washboard abs like THIS five weeks before she gives birth to her 5th child:
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/345168.html
The uterus lose more elasticity with each pregnancy. Ask any woman who's been there (especially any one who's been there several times).
I have no idea whether this is an issue that will matter to the type of voter who likes Palin. Maybe not.
But please -- enough with the complaints about raising this issue at all. Palin and McCain made the baby an issue, part of her pro-life resume. Anyone who claims the story is far-fetched after looking at ALL the evidence is either clueless or a McCain troll.
August 31, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look at that pregnant pic of Palin again…are we not sure the other woman is Palin? IS this a nice red herring a la Rove?? I am starting to wonder.
That doesn't in any way negate the point, in fact it makes it worse for if she was pregnant and did that trip from TX to AK it was dangerously reckless and I know I do not want that level of recklessness in the WH! It would be much better if the kid was hr daughter, then she would merely be a liar.
September 1, 2008 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Aren't you the genius who couldn't identify the Leaning Tower of Pisa?
September 1, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
That picture is captioned on Yahoo as coming from her in laws
September 1, 2008 8:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
msJoanne, I think you have something. In fact, the woman standing BEHIND the pregnant one looks like Palin. The one with the rather large bump could be a sister.
This has Rove's fingerprints all over it. Careful, everyone; they are trying to play us!
As I've said before, let's stick to mcCain's incompetence. That could keep us all busy for the next two months while Mrs. Palin's problems speak for themselves.
September 1, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no question in my mind that Palin faked her pregnancy but then, I'm a woman. I've been pregnant. I've paid attention when my women friends have become pregnant.
I know, as most mothers would know, that a women who has given birth FOUR TIMES before, and looked like this during a previous pregnancy:
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo/080831/480/529a19dfc6774f308117d4be16d30c8d/
... doesn't have washboard abs like THIS five weeks before she gives birth to her 5th child:
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/345168.html
The uterus lose more elasticity with each pregnancy. Ask any woman who's been there (especially any one who's been there several times).
I have no idea whether this is an issue that will matter to the type of voter who likes Palin. Maybe not.
But please -- enough with the complaints about raising this issue at all. Palin and McCain made the baby an issue, part of her pro-life resume. Anyone who claims the story is far-fetched after looking at ALL the evidence is either clueless or a McCain troll.
August 31, 2008 11:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word to your mother!
You are so right!
August 31, 2008 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of clueless...
September 1, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're "ab"solutely right about how difficult it is to reclaim abdominal tone after multiple births. In my own case I got bigger with each subsequent pregnancy and had a longer time losing the weight and maintaining tone down the road.
I can also remember growing up in the late-60's early 70's when mono was a common enough cover for teen-pregnancy that when I told my mother about a classmate with mono she immediately jumped to the conclusion that the girl was pregnant. It turned out she was. No doubt, that doesn't mean a thing, but mono is a good cover for such a condition.
Bottom line: Palin is a rube. The whole flight recklessness and other undisputed (factual) details about her abuse of power (troopergate) during her brief tenure as Alaska governor only highlight that fact while underscoring what a poor, nakedly political choice McCain made. And to think that the repubs were saying that nominating Biden was an admission of weakness from Obama! Har!
Palin runs a state with a population that is smaller than many US metropolitan areas, and has a huge budget surplus due to the states oil and gas revenue. That 'executive experience" argument that the repubs are peddling about her, saying Obama doesn't have any comparative executive experience is difficult to believe. Forget Obama's prior legislative experience, Obama has run a very complicated political organization with many more moving parts and people...so whatever.
The only thing that would make me think that this is a true story is the undeniable fact that the woman is a rube. We have had 8 years of uncouth drama in the white house...I'm ready for a leader who can speak and behave with erudition.
September 1, 2008 6:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Even if it were true"... Raising a special needs child is commendable, whether or not it is your own. But this misses the point. Raising a daughter and her son as sister and brother is what would be happening -- and this creeps people out. I know it was done in the old days on occasion (and there is one guy around my small town whose fortune it was).
But even if it's not true, and the reckless travel from Texas actually happened (rather than being a cover story) does not reflect well on her.
August 31, 2008 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The one thing that most strongly (to me) supports the idea that (despite all the fishy-ness) the kid is the Governors...
Could any sane person with even the LIGHTEST vetting for VP not come forward when they HAD to ASK 'Is there anything you need to tell us?'
Generally I hate stories like this (which does oddly have more supporting circumstantial crap than usual for internet rumors) - but even if she had 'pulled off' a switcheroo in AK, could she really believe it would work at this level? I don't think so, someone would inevitably talk.
Anyway, I guess this is the left's revenge for all those people the Clinton's were supposed to have killed.
August 31, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good question. But that would be making a judgment on the basis of a theory only. However, to answer your theory: I can imagine that a person who's lived her whole life in a tiny, tiny town might never truly understand the level of scrutiny a national campaign would involve. She didn't exactly tell the truth about the Bridge to Nowhere, now, did she? And she didn't tell the truth about Troopergate either. She's in the middle of a Tsunami right now. And I honestly doubt she ever truly envisioned this whirlwind of scrutiny that's swirling around her and her family.
September 1, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
When McGovern asked Eagleton this question, you know the response he got...
September 1, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Picture of Sarah Paline pregnant with another child, not the child born in April.
http://members.aol.com/gregindel/pregnantpalin.jpg
August 31, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, the baby is 4 months 11 days old in the second picture.
For a 6 pound 2 ounce birthweight, he seems to be a good size in the second picture.
Date of birth faked? Was it earlier?
Birth weight faked to make lack of baby bump on Sarah more plausible?
Earliest photo I can find:
www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/380134.html
April 23, 2008 photo:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0eGO21zekP8IY/Sarah_Palin
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0gwwdzLdgx7G7/Sarah_Palin
Is the above a 6 pound 2 ounce baby five days later?
--
Another photo from two days ago:
www.daylife.com/photo/040b5PWg8S6lx
August 31, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure Sarah Palin attended many events during her pregnancy. I wonder if (a) she drinks alchohol, and (b) if there are any photographs of her drinking a toast. Think about it: she must have known she was pregnant about 2 months in, but the story is that she didn't share the news until much later with her staff (7 months?). If a "story" was concocted somewhere along the way, she may not have known she would need a cover and might be seen toasting at fundraisers etc. I can just see the right wing wonder why a good mother would be drinking at 3, 4 or 5 months along...
September 1, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, okay. Here's a bit of cold water for the "baby isnt Sarah's" theory.
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/31/234157/516/1017/581734
If you click through to the freeper site, there are additional photos. There are a few loose ends left over, for sure. The time stamp on the photo is odd, etc. But it looks legit to me; personally, I'm going to tune this story out for a while.
As for the "bad judgment to fly to Alaska" meme that would be left over . . . I just don't think that's worth pursuing. People don't like being told what to do with their own bodies, as those of us who are pro-choice may realize. Accusing someone of not taking proper care of her own pregnancy is, IMHO, a non-starter politically.
September 1, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Alex, thanks for this picture.
The pregnancy and parentage has never been the story.
The issue is judgment
I agree no one likes being told what to do but the facts here just do not wash with someone who could become President.
Parents always make the decision on favor of kids and having a premie, Downs baby in a regional clinic when the NICU they need was passed by on the way home makes no sense.
Her MD is on the Providence staff and could have come to Anchorage and the NICU which is what any sane person and MD would have done.
Don't give up this story. Her behavior is now open to assessment and this does not wash with all you can see about her.
September 1, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Two words: empathy belly.
Less than four weeks prior to the date of this photo, she is
photographed with an absolutely flat belly:
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/345168.html
How do you go from one to the other so quickly?
http://www.empathybelly.org/home.html
September 1, 2008 9:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just did a CTRL-F search for "Schiavo" and was surprised to find no hits.
You remember Terri Schiavo... the woman in a persistent vegetative state that Bill Frist, a cardiologist, diagnosed via edited videotape as being five minutes from waking up and turning cartwheels. Remember how much fun we had at Frist's expense over that? And he at least had a videotape and knew for certain the basic facts and the documented medical history. He was just being disingenuous, which is almost cute by comparison.
This kind of shit is so radioactive and so WRONG that it's got me praying that this is just bush-league Rove dirty tricks, and we'll wake up tomorrow and find that all these accounts were set up yesterday, and all the IP addresses can be traced back to the RNC, etc. But I'm less and less optimistic.
Obama doesn't need a bunch of crazed conspiracy theorists pounding tables and waving grainy photos of Palin's uterus to win. Boy, that'll play well on Good Morning America and NBC Nightly News. Thanks ever so much, but sit down and let the adults handle things before you do ten times the damage the PUMAs ever could.
September 1, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I dunno.
A lying, mooseburger-munching, "family values" opportunist running for Vice-President of the United States doesn't play that well, either.
September 1, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Warning, this story is a plant of Rovian proportions. Don't get sucked into this. There are soooo many other legitimate (and verviable)issues about Palin's nomination that this is a waste of energy. Have mercy and let it go.
September 1, 2008 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
And,like semiotix says: it is so WRONG that we are facilitating this. Come on, we are better than this.
September 1, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
readytoblowagasket, what's your problem? Did you start this account a few weeks ago just to try to disrupt the conversation with your immature behavior?
Don't you have somewhere else to go?
Agasket is waiting for you.
He can get in a foul mood if his fellatio is late.
You better hurry!
September 1, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Readytoblow is a McCain troll who has been on this site for months. At first, he/she was a faux Clinton supporter. And now a Palin supporter. More to the point, an avid Obama hater. Don't feed the troll.
September 1, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I have been ignoring him most of the day. Then I thought of the whole "ready to blow" angle and I started laughing, so I wanted to share my joke.
September 1, 2008 1:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have to admit that I am morbidly fascinated by the whole question surrounding the parentage of Trig, and perhaps that interest is base or prurient. However, in reading hundred of posts on dozens of sites, I have yet to see anyone else see this the way I do.
To me, the question is whether Palin concocted an elaborate, public lie while she was the governor or Alaska and nominated to be vice president. As a people and a nation, we don’t like our leaders to lie. It’s like Bill Clinton and Monica. How many people said that they were troubled not by the conduct, but by the bald-faced lie? It's not the crime, but the cover-up.
Sure, there are layers to this like the flight to Alaska, but irrational personal decisions don’t really matter that much to me if the official judgment looks sound (not that it does here). But there is no excuse for standing in front of the people as a governor or a vice presidential candidate and spinning a web of lies. Anyone who would do that would have to be so disdainful and contemptuous of the public as to be a threat in any position of power.
Palin and McCain have gone to this well many times. It is not unfair, improper or mean spirited to simply voice obvious questions and ask for an answer.
Question: If Palin is lying about being the mother, wouldn't that be worse than Biden's "plagiarism" that ran him out of the presidential race in 1987? Wouldn't it be on par with Clinton's lie about Monica?
That’s the way I see it.
September 1, 2008 1:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
She clearly looks preg here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30076181@N02/2814199887/in/photostream/
September 1, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Guess we need to interview the TSA guard who checked her out at the Dallas airport.
September 1, 2008 2:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
The most important thing about this is it shows the judgement of John Sidney McCain. Who did the vetting, Brownie? Heck of a job, whoever!
September 1, 2008 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
The equivalent to the Muslim-rumour for Obama. Really, do we need to go that low? There is enough bad stuff about Palin without digging around in her private life.
September 1, 2008 2:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
What is funny is that this is just like #20 on her scandal hit parade. And yeah, A RESPONSIVE PRESS should go there. This stinks to high heaven, even if it is her baby. Three days later at work? No post-partem family leave to bond with a seriously disabled child? Her son joined the army about the time the pregnancy happened too--which is seriously freaky if you consider he could have gone to the state universities free and gotten into ROTC. He could just be a super patriot. Or he could have just wanted to get away from the freak show. But yet another weird twist IMHO.
September 1, 2008 2:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't get mad - this topic just reminded me of something.
My son worked on a shrimp boat in Alaska right after high school. He was the only crew member under 50.
He told me that the crew members told him that the Inuits have an extra chromosone.
Now, I had never heard this, and I didn't believe that if there were homo sapiens who were genetically different from the rest of us, that I had never heard it.
I told him he must have encountered people who were misinformed, and went into a diatribe about Down's syndrome having once been called Mongoloidism because of the Mongol features, and the land bridge over the Bering Strait were the Mongols came from and the similar features to Down Syndrome people who do have an extra chromosome, or that he had encountered people who were prejudiced against the indigenous population, but it was pretty clear I was less convincing than the crew members.
Was I right?
September 1, 2008 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Crew members are misinformed bigots. Inuit share genetics with all Asians and indigenous Americans, for a start, and you are correct that all homo s. have the same number of chromosones.
September 1, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I swear, someof yo DEMS are not worthy of the nutcsacks you clam to have. All of this crap about playing nice is same shit that has gotten us 8 years of Bush in office. THANK YOU YOU SPINELESS BASTARTDS.
just sit back and hope to an invisible man in the sky that the MSM will take this and show the world.
hell, call cspan, dial actual numbers, instead of pussyfooting around on a keyboard all day with witty quips(like this one)
bottom line: THIS CHICK IS A LIAR, AND NOT FIT FOR TRUANCY OFFICER, LET ALONE THE MAYOR OF MY ASS HAIRS. TAKE THE GOP DOWN
September 1, 2008 2:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Choosing a more advantageous line of attack is not the same thing as "playing nice."
And could it be more obvious that you're a plant?
September 1, 2008 6:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
as in photosynthesis? its obvious that you have the slightest idea. lol.
all of this crap about it is a private matter, or let the media ge a hold of this, or it isnt plausible is a line of crap., etc etc.
plant my ass. you have the slightest idea who I am, or what I believe in. so just stfu please.
as far as this palin chick. this is the funniest crap I have ever witnessed since I started to care about politics in h.s..
this story is getting too big for even the MSM to pass on for long. I feel bad for her daughter having to have to read all this, and publicly deny her baby(if the story is true) But at the same time, this would hopefully be anothr nail in the coffin of these radical christians. I hope that Ted Haggard is the next one to say how qualified she is.
September 1, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're a fucking plant.
September 1, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I do not like this particular story, but it is relevant because it questions Palin's integrity, honesty and judgment.
If the Rovian mean-machine attacks us for questioning the veracity of this story, don't cower. We have every right to question the candidate. After all Palin may be President one day. If she is prone to fabricating stories we need to know ergo bridgegate, troopergate. These are not frivioulous matters.
IF true, babygate means she will lose the majority of voters trust. I cannot blame Palin for wanting to protect her daughter. That in and by itself is noble. However if she fabricated a story about waiting 12 hours to give birth in Alaska, Palin will have will totally discredited herself. It matters a lot on the national level because no one likes to be taken for a fool.
I hope it is not true because it will be her daughter who suffers. Her daughter will be put in the spotlight and embarrassed terribly. That is not fair!
It has been said that neither McCain's campaign officials nor the RNC have been to Alaska to dive into past news reports -- their news paper evidently is not online. They are just now putting together a team to fly to Alaska.
For McCain not to vet the woman he will also have lost the confidence of the America public. The media plays it like taking a gamble is a "good" thing. Well its not!
Furthermore it insults our intelligence. This also highlights McCain's lack of concern for the nation and our security as well as his poor judgment!
Lastly instead of Sarah Palin, McCain and his surrogates hit the Sunday talk shows which gives credence to the idea Palin is simply not ready for PrimeTime.
Did they think we would not notice!
September 1, 2008 3:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
frivolous not frivioulous
September 1, 2008 3:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
The point made in the post above is that 99% of people would not have acted as she did. This shows poor and risky judgment that does not have much in common with parents everywhere. If you were an expecting 44-year-old mother leaking amniotic fluid, would you do what she did? What if you were her husband? I’m betting that “risk the baby’s health by getting on a plane and flying for 12 hours” is not the first idea that would come to mind. 99% of people in her situation — i.e. affluent and with good health insurance — would have done the sane thing, which is go to the hospital in Texas and deliver the baby there. So it’s not about whether it’s plausible that she returned to Alaska while leaking fluid. Sure, it’s plausible. But it’s about what she did do: the illogical, risky and stupid thing. And for what? To have the baby born in Alaska, the state she wasn’t even born in herself? Thus, she is harder to believe because no one, especially no lover of “life,” would have acted that way. Cue the suspicion.
Either she acted rationally in covering up her daughter’s pregnancy, or she acted irrationally and inexplicably in returning to Alaska and then driving past the better facilities. Most of me is hoping that at least she did the former, which is terrifying but logical. If she did the latter, then we have some irrational lady as a VP candidate, which is a scarier thought.
September 1, 2008 4:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Just wow. You people are a bunch of fucking idiots.
September 1, 2008 4:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not all of them.
Some are paid ratfuckers.
September 1, 2008 6:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dr. Johnson is NOT an ob/gyn. Her specialty is family medicine. Unusual to be consulting the family doctor especially with a special needs birth.
Also, look at the ring on Bristol's left hand from the summer/fall 2007 picture and the V.P. announcement.
September 1, 2008 4:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
This just follows the typical pattern of Bush/Cheney - more of the same: chronic lies, duplicitous behavior and cover-ups.
She's not qualified to be VP for real reasons in terms of economic, international and national security but this story should stay with the Enquirer type publications.
However, in a moment of craziness I did read the story on KOS, complete with all the photos in one place, and I think she's the grandma.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223
The entire episode with her is just very, very shabby and I hope it ends really soon.
September 1, 2008 7:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what to say about a reporter who genuinely appears not to know the difference between "leaking amniotic fluid" and "her water broke."
Without going into clinical detail, you're essentially attempting to conflate a slow leak in a tire with a high-speed blowout. They are not the same. The slow leak is of concern, and the appropriate response is the one she took -- consult with the doctor.
Please do your damned homework next time before you completely discredit yourself.
September 1, 2008 7:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bob, if you read the news articles it has been reported both ways by the same paper.What is correct? One, both, neither?
Do the research before throwing around insults.
Palin says she really wasn't in labor but the official press release says she was:
"The Palins were thankful that the Governor’s labor began yesterday while she was in Texas at the Governor's Energy Conference where she gave the keynote luncheon address, but let up enough
for her to travel on Alaska Airlines back to Alaska in time to deliver her second son.?
September 1, 2008 8:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
John Nail and others,
I am just shocked you and others would fall on the sword so quickly. Do we not recall what happen with Dan Rather??? Seriously, show some restraint and judgment.
The facts presented so far demonstrate that Governor Palin had either extremely bad judgment concerning the birth of her child or her physician is guilty of malpractice.
I know in our tabloid world everyone wants to jump on the angle the "She ain't the Babba Momma", but please put the Jerry Springer hat away. Leave the daughter the HELL ALONE.
If you want to raise the story about who, at the age of 40 or so, would decide to postpone a visit to a hospital when she noticed her water broke at 4 am and instead rely on the word of a physician hundreds of miles away, you have a point.
If you want to raise concern over who with sound judgment would give a 30 minute speech and then go on an eight hour plane ride after her water broke, you have a point.
If you want to question someone's judgment about passing two equipped hospital centers for premies, you have a point.
However, if you want to instead jump on the Springer angle that you have, you should stop there.
All this story shows is either extremely bad judgmet by Governor Palin, her doctor, or both individuals. Leave it at that.
September 1, 2008 8:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks and Agree - as I state in the piece this is all about her judgment. The doctor is only a family practitioner not an OB GYN as well.
The bizarre decisionmaking and actions and now the "X FIles" of disappearing pictures and web pages is really odd.
September 1, 2008 8:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
John,
my father is a family practitioner as well and he was floored by the recklessness of what the physician here advised.
September 1, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Athena. I agree that it is important to discover the truth of this story. If women of child-bearing age are going to be in the political arena, there pregnancies and births will inevitably be scrutinized and the correct way to handle the information has yet to be discovered.
On the other hand, her decisions to travel and where best to deliver might not seem sensible but I think the charge of negligence is a bit strong given that we don't have all the facts and because, as advocates of choice, we have to tolerate that she might have picked one hospital over another for her own reasons.
Let the story go. If it has legs, it will walk. Governor Palin can dispell the doubt quite simply by proving the maternity of her child with a simple test. If she declines, we are left to wonder. Her choice.
September 1, 2008 8:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good points.
Nevertheless, to have had your water break and then to get on a plane - without even advising the airline personnel - putting passengers at potential risk of an emergency landing - that points to her judgment and decision-making skills. And certainly doesn't "put America first."
Whereas, to have gone to a TX world-class hospital would not have put anyone at risk.
September 1, 2008 8:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am also a mother of five, having my last child at 40 years old. I did NOT have great healthcare, as a gov. would have.
I had to go to a state funded clinic.
My M.D. made me have a test, an amnio., which tests the water.
He said it is routine on every pregnancy when the mother is in her late 30's and up.
This women is either a real cold bi*&h or ignorent as hell.
Kinda puts some logic to the rumors, does'nt it?
Hey, I gotta couple of semesters in. Majored in Poli/Sci. I've traveled a whole lot more than Palin.
Maybe I could be V.P?
September 1, 2008 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone who wants to let it go can let it go. I want the truth to come out BEFORE the election.
Everyone who thinks a few photos that finally show her looking like she has a belly, days before the birth, is proof of anything, ought to check out the last season of Desperate Housewives.
Less than four weeks prior to the date of the photo that supposedly proves pregnancy, she is
photographed with an absolutely flat belly:
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/345168.html
How do you go from one to the other so quickly?
http://www.empathybelly.org/home.html
September 1, 2008 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
A good investigative reporter might want to question the OTHER driver of the Feb 8 accident as to the appearance of a pregnancy. An even better source is the array of students at Wasilla. As a retired teacher, I can tell you "Loose lips sink ships" was never truer. They can give you details, some good, some stretched, but in the main, one has the grain of truth you need. Go for it!
September 1, 2008 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
We have the "other drivers" name, Facebook page as well as one of Bristol's classmates facebook page where he professes his love for her...all will come out...
September 1, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
This story is political Kryptonite at this point. It is clear the story is moving away from Palin's judgment and towards the absurd Jerry Springeresck tagline. This is truly unfortunate.
What is demonstrated by the facts presented is either the physician, Palin, or both showed very bad judgment. That is the story.
Now, I read the comments here and am just shocked. Does anyone not remember what happen to Dan Rather??? John Nails, Markos, and others, you guys make some interesting points, but you are no Dan Rathers.
What you want us to believe is that the Republican machine was asleep at the wheel on this one. That a politician, such as McCain, who has been in the national spotlight for years would make such a rookie mistake? Remember Saddleback...
Seriously, I just do not think that it is possible. The meat on the bone of this story is just enough to get people going and then POW. The Dems get slammed. The reporters get slammed.
Governor Palin goes on television and says the smears are destroying her family and she must resign. The christian right and now small town america is inflamed. With the base happy, McCain gets his pick of Lieberman....
Yeah, I know that this scenario is a foil hat ass fart of a conspiracy, but it has way more potential than the current story reported.
September 1, 2008 9:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a 20+ year labor and delivery nurse she was woefully negligent in her choice to fly that or any distance with leaking amniotic fluid. Even if her child was full term and healthy she was wrong, wrong, wrong to do what she did.
Not only did she risk having a premature, high risk baby on an airplane with the increased chance of infection but she also risked having a prolapsed umbilical cord which sometimes comes out first after the bag of water breaks,is squeezed by the presenting part of the baby and cuts off the baby's oxygen supply quickly resulting in brain damage or death.
September 1, 2008 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Much ado about nothing, and there is no there there.
There is plenty to challenge Sarah Palin on about how she has conducted her political life. This smearing of her teenage daughter, or for that matter a new born baby, is pointless and repugnant.
As for the qualifications of her doctor: that is also a stupid attack approach to take. Many a child, in the vast majority of humanity, through out all of our species history, has been born without the benefit of any doctor at all.
Knock it of. It makes us look just as tawdry and vicious as the Swift Boaters. The teenage daugher, and the newborn baby are not in politics, and they should not be smeared in some cynical and cold hearted attempts to weaken their mother's political career.
We are better than that, and if we are not, then what the hell is the reason we are trying to defeat the Republicans.
If you detest the politics of personal destruction, and the Turd Blossom methods employed by the Republicans, then why on earth would you ever want to sink that very same level.
September 1, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
liam,
How is this smearing her daughter? If this story is true, it is her mother's lies that are being exposed.
And it is a major embarrassment for the Christian Right, who have thrown thenselves behind this "family values" candidate. The whole "abstinence only," "creationism is true" platform she is running on is what is being exposed.
Not to mention, the fact that we are somehow going to have to trust our elected officials again.
September 1, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
No. You don't get it. You're going to turn her into a hero.
September 1, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
When the next Dem president is impeached over lying about his- or her- personal life, things that rightfully should be none of the people's business, don't complain to me about it.
Meanwhile give Republicans a free pass. They can lie with total impunity. That's right. Only Republicans are allowed to lie and get away with it.
September 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
When Democrats lie about things that should be none of the people's business, they get impeached.
But Republicans get a free pass. That's the way it should be, of course.
September 1, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
You just don't get it. If it turns out to be true, and she lied to save her daughter embarassment rather than get an abortion, how does SHE NOT LOOK LIKE A HERO TO THE RIGHT? This makes her a culture warrior and incites these people to fighting on her behalf. Do you not understand strategy AT ALL?
HOW DOES THIS HELP DEMOCRATS? WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS?
September 1, 2008 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is about her two daughters. You are putting them in the spotlight. Others have been claiming that the the teenage daughter is the real mother of the new baby. That is smearing the daughter. She is not in public life. Do unto others, as you would.....
How did you like what McCain said about Chelsey Clinton, and Janet Reno.
If Senator Obama wins, and I sure want him to, wouldn't you want his two young daughers, who would be going into their teen years in the public light, to be given their privacy, and not be treated as some instruments to tear down their father.
September 1, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
You miss the point completely.
Now that the daughter's pregnancy has been revealed (forget how many there have been), it is very evident that Palin is USING her daughter, marrying her off to the relevant male in a manner which smacks of the Paleolithic age.
Does her daughter want to marry? Is she ready for marriage? No matter: In the insane world of the Christian Right, she is chattel, to be married off to the most proximate male of an indiscretion is discovered.
It smacks of the Taliban as well as our wretched Puritan heritage. Soon we'll be ready for some witch trials.
Can't you see what she is doing, or are you so blinded by your own politics that you can't see the obvious any longer?
September 1, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a big difference, liam...
The Swift boaters didn't serve with John Kerry.
Also, when someone
** takes the position of limiting the choice you make with your body
** holds herself up as an example of the 21st Century version of June Cleaver
** wants to mandate that in the form of public policy...
then it's all fair game -- the stand itself, the images meant to support that stand and the character of the person supporting such a policy.
September 1, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then take her on about her positions, instead of hoping to leverage her children in order to score political points.
Reality Check:
No matter what you think you can uncover about her pregnancy, that will not change the vote of a single right wing christian, and on the other hand, you just may turn off a bunch of moderate voters who will be disgusted about how we engage in rumor mongering about her family life.
Are we the party of reproductive privacy rights for women, or not. What is being done here is making us look like hypocrites.
I am pro-choice, because I do not want to tell women what to do with their own bodies. Sarah Palin is entitled to that right also, or we are just being hypocrites.
Challenge her politics and her qualifications. That is what an election is for.
September 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since when is expecting a candidate to be honest equated with the cheap "scoring of political points?"
The root of "candidate" is "candid." If she is lying, she should not be VP.
It is very directly her values that are invoved here... Does she believe in birth control, in sex education? Does she think abstinence only works?
As Navy Gray in PA says, we are pretty forgiving people. I expect her to be honest. She has to be, given what the nation has endured with the shameless liars in office lately.
September 1, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liam, I appreciate what you are saying, but don't you agree that this whole thing boils down to two things: lies and lack of judgment.
I don't give a shit who the baby mama is. If there are lies surrounding it, that I care about (for Palin pushes abstainance only education). And the whole travel story shows a lack of judgment applied to her personal life, do we really want this judgment applied to terrorism or dealing with foreign dictators? And the lack of concern for fellow travelers (citizens) applies, too.
Both, however it plays out, are bad for America. And the back story interrelates with each of the respective outcomes.
September 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a big difference, liam...
The Swift boaters didn't serve with John Kerry.
Also, when someone
** takes the position of limiting the choice you make with your body
** holds herself up as an example of the 21st Century version of June Cleaver
** wants to mandate that in the form of public policy...
then it's all fair game -- the stand itself, the images meant to support that stand and the character of the person supporting such a policy.
September 1, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
This article is pure idiocy! Shame on you and I hope they sue your pants off for libel...concerning who carried this baby.
You ABORTIONISTS who are willing to kill a late-term perfect baby, are either bitching that she's pro-life one minute, or now, claiming she took risky behavior during her pregnancy in another!
Which is it? Take your pick... is Sarah and right wing pro-life monster or left-wing careless embryo abuser?
You can't have it both ways.
This article stoops so low, I can't believe TPM would print it.
Having a baby is NOT AN ILLNESS and if it came out in a taxicab, chances are all would be fine. Women gave birth on the prairie this way for years and I doubt they laid in bed until just before it happened.
Sarah is da bomb! Obama is toast!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 1, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
This article is pure idiocy! Shame on you and I hope they sue your pants off for libel...concerning who carried this baby.
You ABORTIONISTS who are willing to kill a late-term perfect baby, are either bitching that she's pro-life one minute, or now, claiming she took risky behavior during her pregnancy in another!
Which is it? Take your pick... is Sarah and right wing pro-life monster or left-wing careless embryo abuser?
You can't have it both ways.
This article stoops so low, I can't believe TPM would print it.
Having a baby is NOT AN ILLNESS and if it came out in a taxicab, chances are all would be fine. Women gave birth on the prairie this way for years and I doubt they laid in bed until just before it happened.
Sarah is da bomb! Obama is toast!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 1, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's something Orwellian going on. On the second link, which was posted on Andrew Sullivan's blog, Trig's name apparently doesn't appear on the list of babies born on the 18th. Strangely, both the hospital website and the list of babies have mysteriously been pulled-- and the baby list doesn't even appear in the Google cache. Hopefully someone saved the page and can repost it.
www.matsuregional.com/
www.matsuregional.com/nursery/show_day.php?month=04&year=2008&day=18 -
September 1, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is a horrible thing to pursue. You people are either plants or you're not thinking it through. Even if the story is true, there's no point in attacking from this angle. It's too easy to paint this as a mother protecting her daughter -- that's the way most Americans will see it.
This is a trap and I think most people pushing this are trolls. I'll get 8 troll responses to this comment, but those of you on the fence or not sure, I hope you're smart enough to see what's really going on here.
September 1, 2008 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just click on the name of the guy who started this blog. Check out the profile that he posted about himself. He is a Republican!
This looks like a Trojan Horse operation designed to incite Progressive blogs into going overboard, and then using it against them.
September 1, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I saw this same plot on Desperate Housewives a while back. That doesn't mean that it is true, or that it is not true. It could be that life imitates art, if you consider Desperate Housewives to be art. It is entirely possible that the family watched the episodes of DH and got the idea. Or not. But it did play out on TV well a couple of years ago. Same exact plot. Mom pretended to be pregnant. Daughter disappeared for a while. FWIW.
September 1, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Ok. At first I thought that this babygate/waterbreakgate, etc. was fair game, since the little kid was touted as proof of Palin's anti-choice creds.
However, the longer this goes on, the more I see just how destructive this soap opera/desperate housewifey /tin foil hat-y this all is, and most of all, how it is just a red herring. (ok. I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been said.)
As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY reason to focus on what DK calls Palin-tology is to buttress arguments about McSame's judgment (or lack thereof). Let's tie the non-vetting back to, as someone here said, his being erratic and not a "maverick."
I'll admit to being greatly amused by Palin, and a bit consumed by piecing together her past, and see her gaffs as "the gift that keeps on giving," but don't we have better opposition research to do, or can't we all start knocking on doors or making phone calls to get Obama elected. C'mon! Let's keep our eyes on the prize here.
(And, whew, glad first post is out of the way!)
September 1, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another issue we might want to consider...
If Palin is truly against corruption as she claims she is, then she will understand the need to be as transparent as possible.
Americans understand faults and are generally willing to forgive them.
All they ask is that you be straight with them.
If this is a non-issue, then fine. Be open and honest with us, with FACTS, not just open-ended denials and attacks.
The longer she delays, the more this thing will fester...
September 1, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Probably the first and last time I ever link to Free Republic, but can you all just give it a rest?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2072180/posts?page=1
She looks pretty pregnant here, dontcha think?
September 1, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
That picture was taken in August.
September 1, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
That picture was taken in August.
September 1, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are two possibilities: A. What kind of evil nut would plant a story and fake citations? (Rove)
B. The story is true.
I for one do not blame progressives for this no matter what transpires. It is a seedy story that either pits Republicans against McCain/Palin, or is a dupe to let unqualified nuts get a free pass. The crimes here are all on the side of Rove's party.
September 1, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think people should focus on more relevant public issues, such as Palin's opposition to sex education in the schools.
September 1, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do we know she's opposed to sex education? How do we know that?
September 1, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this story isn't relevant to that issue?
September 1, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Anchorage Daily News, Alaska's main newspaper, has posted "Rumor Patrol--Baby Drama" at http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130178?page=1 so the story is getting into the newspapers, at least up there. I think this makes it more "legitimate" to talk about here.
A few new things on the web--I noticed and others have as well that Bristol Palin is wearing a ring on her left hand now (the picture of her holding the baby at her mother's recent rally.) Scuttlebutt from the web--she recently got married. And a kid named Chris Ray who lives in the town where the hospital is says he loves Bristol on his website.
September 1, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Troll troll troll. It doesn't make it "more legitimate," it means you trolls are happy that you think your "strategy" is working.
September 1, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope. Not a troll. Just a commenter like the rest of you.
September 1, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
My biggest problem with Palin, and the reason this story is of such interest to so many people, is that we really know nothing about her views on anything because there's no record. She's "pro-life" and has a Down's syndrome child in her family. Does that mean that she would support laws that would force my family to make the same choice she did? If so, and if she holds herself out as a role model, we all need to know exactly how one handles such a situation. If, say, I am a working mother of 4, pregnant with a Down's syndrome child that I have to carry to term, does she believe that I have to take risks with my own health and the fetus's in order to keep my job? Or does she support ample health care and maternity leave, and social support so that when I have this child, someone's going to help me care for it? Because, unlike Palin, I don't know how I could jump on a plane at the last minute and go back to work three days after the birth of my special needs child. If she would want me to do that, I certainly wouldn't vote for her. (Not that I will anyway.) But we have very little of her words to tell us what she thinks one way or the other about this issue or any other issue. (Sorry that I placed this post on the wrong thread earlier.)
September 1, 2008 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here you go, you fucking morons -- do you get it now??? WHAT DID WE WIN? HOW DID THIS HELP DEMOCRATS? Fucking lunatic idiots.
To rebut rumors, Palin says daughter, 17, pregnant
"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,'" a senior aide said."
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2944356420080901
September 1, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention that Obama's thursday speech was viewed by 38 million people. That would be a whole lot of people clamoring to know about Obama. As we all know, the more you know about Obama the better you like him.
Of course McCain's brilliant Palin strategy changed all that.
Think about it. American's have very short memories. Obama's race speech was amazing...better in my opinion that "I have a dream". He had initial glowing praise. Then something Hillary did pushed the speech off of the front pages. It will be the same way now with his convention speech.
The McCain strategy is to push Obama off the front pages, by any means necessary. To stop anyone from being curious about him, do deflect the almost daily critics, and entice the far right. He did it.
September 1, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. Exactly. And they get to throw in a few shots at the horrible liberals for attacking a 17-year-old at the same time. Win/win for the GOP and a lose/lose for us.
September 1, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
". . . a story of a girl named Mousie who puffed up and whose puff went "poof." "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf"
Anybody taking bets?
September 1, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same as the Iseman affair. It's called 'inocculation'.
September 1, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The faux outrage of the McCain camp has got to be worth the price of admission.
September 1, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the headline tomorrow:
Obama Allies Say Palin's Pregnancy Faked
How does this help Democrats? Please explain how this does anything but discredit the blogosphere and make Palin a hero to the right. You don't get it. We're not talking about the country anymore. We're talking about whether or not she was really pregnant. This is incredibly stupid. It's bait to make the election about family values. See it or don't at your peril.
And if you're implying I'm in the McCain camp, you really, really don't get it.
September 1, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put your money where your mouth is and please explain to me how this helps Democrats win the election.
September 1, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put your money where your mouth is and please explain how any of this helps Democrats win.
September 1, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put your money where your mouth is and explain how this helps Democrats at all.
September 1, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put your money where your mouth is and explain how this helps Democrats at all.
September 1, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
What are you so afraid of?
Aren't you content to let the other side be liars and hypocrites for once?
September 1, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Answer my question.
September 1, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
If an unmarried girl gets pregnant in certain primitive societies, they stone her to death. no regard for her welfare, obviously.
Palin's daughter gets pregnant, so she's married off ASAP in a decision that I guarantee was the Governor's alone. No regard for the daughter's welfare.
We are back in the Dark Ages.
As for the Democratic Party, to hell with it, if it comprised solely of ostriches like you.
September 1, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't believe that people who purport to support the Democratic Party and pro-choice positions have so little understanding about what that means.
Women have the right to make their own health care decisions with respect for their privacy -- not just the right to decide whether or not to abort, but the right, including while pregnant, to decide how much exercise they can handle, how much caffeine or alcohol they can drink while pregnant, and where they want to deliver their child. Reading this appeal to the pregnancy police under the guise of questioning a woman's judgment makes me feel just as appalled as I am when I read that Sarah Palin doesn't believe women should have the right to choose abortion, even in the case of rape, incest, or threats to the health of the pregnant woman.
Please do not sink into pushing a double standard in which it is okay to talk this way about a GOP woman if you would object to such examination of a woman whose politics you agree with.
September 1, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is not about her pregnancy.
It is about her lies.
I understand the Democratic party, post-Clinton, doesn't understand that.
September 1, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the original post claimed that this was about Palin's "judgment" which is what I responded to
If it's about lies -- what lies? The alleged lie about Trig's? parentage? I've yet to see evidence of that, and the announcement today that Bristol is 5 months pregnant makes the timing for her giving birth to Trig 4.5 months ago seem impossible.
I think there are at least 100 reasons of immensely greater significance to choose Obama-Biden over McCain-Palin, than anything revealed by this kind of discussion.
September 1, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Xine,
It's about duplicity.
September 1, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
September 1, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't believe that people who purport to support the Democratic Party and pro-choice positions have so little understanding about what that means.
Women have the right to make their own health care decisions with respect for their privacy -- not just the right to decide whether or not to abort, but the right, including while pregnant, to decide how much exercise they can handle, how much caffeine or alcohol they can drink while pregnant, and where they want to deliver their child. Reading this appeal to the pregnancy police under the guise of questioning a woman's judgment makes me feel just as appalled as I am when I read that Sarah Palin doesn't believe women should have the right to choose abortion, even in the case of rape, incest, or threats to the health of the pregnant woman.
Please do not sink into pushing a double standard in which it is okay to talk this way about a GOP woman if you would object to such examination of a woman whose politics you agree with.
September 1, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
As is always the case, when one comments on a politically leftward blog, one enters a logic-free zone.
The AUTHOR of this morally repugnant hit piece defends his utter ignorance of the gynecological issues he pretends to be reporting on objectively, by positing an after-the-fact factoid that is utterly irrelevant to the point I made.
His claim was that Alaska Airlines regulations do not permit a woman aboard a plane whose "water has broke (sic)." The story he reported was that she was "leaking amniotic fluid." THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. The fact that AFTER SHE F***ING LANDED IN ALASKA she went into real labor and delivered the child, does not in the least excuse the lame error he made in confusing the two.
It's quite obvious that the author here is a single guy who's never had to deal with pregnancy in his life. In real life, there's no way to tell whether the cramps the woman has been having are the beginning of labor or just cramps (which are normal in late-stage pregnancy), and leaking of amniotic fluid is actually pretty common. The fact that she was a month away from her due date makes the assessment that "this is just cramps" a lot more reasonable.
As usual, though, leftists who excuse unbroken strings of dozens of lies from their own candidates, indict any ordinary human activity as a moral lapse in their political opponents, and declare Republicans unfit for office on the mere suspicion that they might be human beings.
I hope you're appropriately embarrassed by the fact, revealed this morning, that your entire tinfoil hate (deliberate pun) delusion is disproved by the fact that teenage daughter Bristol was actually about 6 weeks pregnant at the time she was supposedly delivering her mother's Down's Syndrome baby. But I'm not holding my breath.
The left has outdone itself on this one. You guys are filthy to a degree I would not have imagined possible. I feel like I need a shower just for being here.
September 1, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
As is always the case, when one comments on a politically leftward blog, one enters a logic-free zone.
The AUTHOR of this morally repugnant hit piece defends his utter ignorance of the gynecological issues he pretends to be reporting on objectively, by positing an after-the-fact factoid that is utterly irrelevant to the point I made.
His claim was that Alaska Airlines regulations do not permit a woman aboard a plane whose "water has broke (sic)." The story he reported was that she was "leaking amniotic fluid." THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. The fact that AFTER SHE F***ING LANDED IN ALASKA she went into real labor and delivered the child, does not in the least excuse the lame error he made in confusing the two.
It's quite obvious that the author here is a single guy who's never had to deal with pregnancy in his life. In real life, there's no way to tell whether the cramps the woman has been having are the beginning of labor or just cramps (which are normal in late-stage pregnancy), and leaking of amniotic fluid is actually pretty common. The fact that she was a month away from her due date makes the assessment that "this is just cramps" a lot more reasonable.
As usual, though, leftists who excuse unbroken strings of dozens of lies from their own candidates, indict any ordinary human activity as a moral lapse in their political opponents, and declare Republicans unfit for office on the mere suspicion that they might be human beings.
I hope you're appropriately embarrassed by the fact, revealed this morning, that your entire tinfoil hate (deliberate pun) delusion is disproved by the fact that teenage daughter Bristol was actually about 6 weeks pregnant at the time she was supposedly delivering her mother's Down's Syndrome baby. But I'm not holding my breath.
The left has outdone itself on this one. You guys are filthy to a degree I would not have imagined possible. I feel like I need a shower just for being here.
September 1, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
All of this from GOP. Bristol was an unwed minor mother. This inoculates the rem from the "abstinence" double standard. Palin is a great hypocrite though. Republicans lie as a natural reflex. Palin has known this all along and still spewed forth right wing family talking points. She is nothing if not a sociopath. Like Rove and McCain.
September 1, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
As is always the case, when one comments on a politically leftward blog, one enters a logic-free zone.
The AUTHOR of this morally repugnant hit piece defends his utter ignorance of the gynecological issues he pretends to be reporting on objectively, by positing an after-the-fact factoid that is utterly irrelevant to the point I made.
His claim was that Alaska Airlines regulations do not permit a woman aboard a plane whose "water has broke (sic)." The story he reported was that she was "leaking amniotic fluid." THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. The fact that AFTER SHE F***ING LANDED IN ALASKA she went into real labor and delivered the child, does not in the least excuse the lame error he made in confusing the two.
It's quite obvious that the author here is a single guy who's never had to deal with pregnancy in his life. In real life, there's no way to tell whether the cramps the woman has been having are the beginning of labor or just cramps (which are normal in late-stage pregnancy), and leaking of amniotic fluid is actually pretty common. The fact that she was a month away from her due date makes the assessment that "this is just cramps" a lot more reasonable.
As usual, though, leftists who excuse unbroken strings of dozens of lies from their own candidates, indict any ordinary human activity as a moral lapse in their political opponents, and declare Republicans unfit for office on the mere suspicion that they might be human beings.
I hope you're appropriately embarrassed by the fact, revealed this morning, that your entire tinfoil hate (deliberate pun) delusion is disproved by the fact that teenage daughter Bristol was actually about 6 weeks pregnant at the time she was supposedly delivering her mother's Down's Syndrome baby. But I'm not holding my breath.
The left has outdone itself on this one. You deserve a great deal worse than the outrage you're certain to evoke.
September 1, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
As is always the case, when one comments on a politically leftward blog, one enters a logic-free zone.
The AUTHOR of this morally repugnant hit piece defends his utter ignorance of the gynecological issues he pretends to be reporting on objectively, by positing an after-the-fact factoid that is utterly irrelevant to the point I made.
His claim was that Alaska Airlines regulations do not permit a woman aboard a plane whose "water has broke (sic)." The story he reported was that she was "leaking amniotic fluid." THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. The fact that AFTER SHE LANDED IN ALASKA she went into real labor and delivered the child, does not in the least excuse the lame error he made in confusing the two.
It's quite obvious that the author here is a single guy who's never had to deal with pregnancy in his life. In real life, there's no way to tell whether the cramps the woman has been having are the beginning of labor or just cramps (which are normal in late-stage pregnancy), and leaking of amniotic fluid is actually pretty common. The fact that she was a month away from her due date makes the assessment that "this is just cramps" a lot more reasonable.
As usual, though, leftists who excuse unbroken strings of dozens of lies from their own candidates, indict any ordinary human activity as a moral lapse in their political opponents, and declare Republicans unfit for office on the mere suspicion that they might be human beings.
I hope you're appropriately embarrassed by the fact, revealed this morning, that your entire tinfoil hate (deliberate pun) delusion is disproved by the fact that teenage daughter Bristol was actually about 6 weeks pregnant at the time she was supposedly delivering her mother's Down's Syndrome baby. But I'm not holding my breath.
The left has outdone itself on this one. You deserve a great deal worse than the outrage you're certain to evoke.
September 1, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope you're appropriately embarrassed by the fact, revealed this morning . . . .
Fact?
Gullible, thy name is Plumb Bob.
September 1, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey John,
Great post with a lot of legwork, cudos! Since you seem to be interested in collecting all info, on all pics, I have some deep background on this foto which I believe was taken on March 6-7, 2008, in the Alaska Legislative building, the day of the interview with KVTA 11 reporter Andrea Gusty, where she publicly announced her pregnancy.
www.flickr.com/photos/30076181@N02/2814199887/in/photostream/
Let me know if your interested and I'll send the full story or point you to it. I don't want to step on your fine diary here.
Keep up the good work!
September 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gosh, look, another first-time ever poster commenting on only this story. Duhhhhhhhhhh.
September 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bob: You are unhinged. Wow. This story came from the right wing as you well know. May be true, may not. But it is a right wing attempt at inoculation. Unwed MINOR pregnancy and all. Yay, abstinence!! Yay responsible choices!! Yay free state-sponsored health care for dependents!!!!
Oddly, if she is 5 months pregnant, Mono does not seem to have impacted the story.
And leaking amniotic fluid that early is a huge debacle--at 44 or other times. I have seen patients urgently transported to the nearest medical facility.
September 1, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bob: You are unhinged. Wow. This story came from the right wing as you well know. May be true, may not. But it is a right wing attempt at inoculation. Unwed MINOR pregnancy and all. Yay, abstinence!! Yay responsible choices!! Yay free state-sponsored health care for dependents!!!!
Oddly, if she is 5 months pregnant, Mono does not seem to have impacted the story.
And leaking amniotic fluid that early is a huge debacle--at 44 or other times. I have seen patients urgently transported to the nearest medical facility.
September 1, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
My apologies for the repetitive posting. Your server gave me "500 Server Error" messages after each one, so I repeated until I gave up.
September 1, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about this?
Trig is actually adopted. That explains Sarah's flight from Dallas to Alaska to have a baby, and not at a better-equipped hospital in Dallas or Anchorage but at the community hospital near home (this is the same scenario supporting the original rumor). And it also might explain an apparent level of detachment between Sarah and her new baby, evidenced by her willingness to be on the campaign trail instead of with the baby, because her motivation for adoption was... to quench Bristol's maternal desires by giving her "a baby of her own" and to show her that having a baby is a lot of work, (and no better to demonstrate that with a Down syndrome baby).
This theory addresses the timing of the current Bristol pregnancy inconsistent with the rumored Bristol pregnancy with Trig; and the relative unlikelihood that Bristol would have a Down syndrome baby.
This theory is premised on Bristol expressing that she wanted to have a baby (now supported by her current pregnancy and decision to raise the child), and her parents not thrilled with the idea. So they utilize informal pro-life networks and find a Down syndrome baby that needs adopting (instead of getting a puppy). And according to this theory, her parents' ploy didn't work.
I think it's pretty tight.
September 1, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah...McCain is right, Palin is a game changer...lol
September 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I find it sad and discouraging that so many of you in TPM community would be so condescending of a fellow blogger. I am aware that there are trolls out there, and also repub perpetrators, but goddamn lighten up will ya. Obviously John has something to say and is not flying off the cuff here. I mean, this story has been circulating in Alaska since the beginning of this year. He also comes up with some very good resources that, if you would do some research of your own, could ultimately be proven right or wrong. There's absolutely no reason to degrade this blog or its writer. All of you who have written demeaning responses are just as bad, or worse, than the neocons who have for all these years done and said any and everything in their power to discredit the left and/or liberals. You all are going to be feeling pretty bad when all this turns out, and I think it will, to be somewhat if not completely proven to be true.
John Nail, blog what you want. True or not. For that's why we are called bloggers...and not the Main Stream Media.
September 1, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for your comments.
This is a sad story about Bristol and the fact that her Mom would put her in a situation like this.
There are real substantive reasons Palin is unqualified to be VP and her judgment that I have laid out is one and this new revelation and her putting the child in this national limelight is really unfair. This troopergate is not good either again from a judgment perspective.
I hope Gov Palin realizes that her place is at home with her new special needs son, Bristol's new challenges, a son in Iraq and 2 other kids who need her. If she does that I think her long term political future is strong and she toughs this out or tries to will destroy her and her family.
There are other shoes to drop here that do not need to if she withdraws for family reasons...
September 1, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see:
McCain picks a new governor who is in the middle of an ethics scandal, who patently lied about her stance on the bridge to nowhere, who patently lied about her relationship to ted stephens, and who has been previously affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party. A governor with views on sex education, climate change, abortion and science education are far outside the American mainstream.
And all the so called "left wing" blogs talk about is a stupid baby story? Are you sure you are not all on McCain's payroll?
September 1, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see:
McCain picks a new governor who is in the middle of an ethics scandal, who patently lied about her stance on the bridge to nowhere, who patently lied about her relationship to ted stephens, and who has been previously affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party. A governor with views on sex education, climate change, abortion and science education are far outside the American mainstream.
And all the so called "left wing" blogs talk about is a stupid baby story? Are you sure you are not all on McCain's payroll?
September 1, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see:
McCain picks a new governor who is in the middle of an ethics scandal, who patently lied about her stance on the bridge to nowhere, who patently lied about her relationship to ted stephens, and who has been previously affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party. A governor with views on sex education, climate change, abortion and science education are far outside the American mainstream.
And all the so called "left wing" blogs talk about is a stupid baby story? Are you sure you are not all on McCain's payroll?
September 1, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see:
McCain picks a new governor who is in the middle of an ethics scandal, who patently lied about her stance on the bridge to nowhere, who patently lied about her relationship to ted stephens, and who has been previously affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party. A governor with views on sex education, climate change, abortion and science education are far outside the American mainstream.
And all the so called "left wing" blogs talk about is a stupid baby story? Are you sure you are not all on McCain's payroll?
September 1, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see:
McCain picks a new governor who is in the middle of an ethics scandal, who patently lied about her stance on the bridge to nowhere, who patently lied about her relationship to ted stephens, and who has been previously affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party. A governor with views on sex education, climate change, abortion and science education are far outside the American mainstream.
And all the so called "left wing" blogs talk about is a stupid baby story? Are you sure you are not all on McCain's payroll?
September 1, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see:
McCain picks a new governor who is in the middle of an ethics scandal, who patently lied about her stance on the bridge to nowhere, who patently lied about her relationship to ted stephens, and who has been previously affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party. A governor with views on sex education, climate change, abortion and science education are far outside the American mainstream.
And all the so called "left wing" blogs talk about is a stupid baby story? Are you sure you are not all on McCain's payroll?
September 1, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2814199887_67e84850f4_b.jpg
Picture of Palin during said time period with big belly.
September 1, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Incorrect. That picture was taken in August. There were two pictures that were taken together, that one and another with her newly appointed press secretary Bill McAllister toward the end of the current legislative session. The session ended August 7. The press announcement on his appointment was August 12.
September 1, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Incorrect. That picture was taken in August. There were two pictures that were taken together, that one and another with her newly appointed press secretary Bill McAllister toward the end of the current legislative session. The session ended August 7. The press announcement on his appointment was August 12.
September 1, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
That picture on Free Republic was taken in August. There were two pictures that were taken together, that one and another with her newly appointed press secretary Bill McAllister toward the end of the current legislative session. The session ended August 7. The press announcement on his appointment was August 12.
September 1, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
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