Reader Posts

« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »

"Water Breakgate" - 8/31/2008 - New and Disturbing Information

Water Breakgate - Judgment - The Real Issue

As you all know there are rumors swirling around the web and blogosphere concerning the parentage of Sarah Palin's young son Trig.These are unsubstantiated and hopefully for the sake of the family not true. This story did NOT orignate this week, It was bubbling around AK since April.

THIS IS NOT THE REAL ISSUE. Unfortunately examining the situation here will be required to get to Gov. Palin's judgement and behavior concerning this. What I have learned in the last 24 hours concerning the medical actions taken after Gov. Palin returned and at least something about her doctor is also disturbing and raises more questions and adds soem real support to the rumors.

The real issue simply put is the poor judgment that Sarah Palin exhibiited in traveling while 36 weeks pregnant, carrying a special needs baby after her water broke. Does this sound like someone qualifed to be "a heartbeat away" from the Presidency?

Republican Vetting Issues?

The fact that this issue has come up nationally when it had been an issue in AK since spring makes one wonder about McCain's vetting. From the NYT today:

"Republican officials said that though they had time to collect
surface-level material on Ms. Palin and her husband, they had done no
examination of the rest of her family."

Local political allied and colleagues and Palin staffers were quoted in local articles that neither they or anyone they  knew had been part of a vetting process. Theor point was that is small community like Anchorage and Juneau this type of thing would not stay quiet for long.

All the material here is a function of the "googles and tubes" and I have to wonder if McCain's team dug into this on the web. Iti s the easiest and quickest way to get a start on issues and they must have missed this or not dug far enough.

Sarah Palin on Pregnancy and Working

Sarah Palin is one tough lady it appears in terms of how she views things.

"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby
at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the
cave."

I personally doubt this type of "pioneer: attitude really is how she would treat the decision to fly as she did. 

The Dallas Trip - Full newspaper Article here

Lets get the facts straight here.

"Palin went to Texas at 35/36 weeks  for an energy conference of the National Governors Association in Mid April when she experienced signs of early labor. She wasn't due for another month.

Early Thursday -- she thinks it was around 4 a.m. Texas time -- she consulted with her doctor, family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who is based in the Valley and has delivered lots of babies, including Piper, Palin's 7-year-old.

Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.

"I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She
gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference.

Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.

"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson
said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

Flying

On their website Alaska Airlines has no policy to restrict later term flying. However see the quote below:

"In fact, a call to Alaska Airlines by Gambling911.com revealed that they will not allow a woman to board a flight whose water has broke."

Airline spokeswoman Caroline Boren..."The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress,"

She (Palin) said she didn't try to hide it but didn't feel a need to alert the airline, either.

One article I read made it clear that Palin never asked for or got specific clearance for her flight from her Doctor.

Gov. Palin's Doctor

From Palin's Doctor - Cathy Baldwin Johnson is a medical expert and said -  "I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said. Why? Sounds like a huge malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen if this had  turned out badly. especially with a public figure.

Other experts disagree:

Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman's water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That's true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg. "To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak," Gregg said. (Anchorage Daily News 4/22/2008)

 Dr. Johnson is " the region's "expert" in child and adult sexual abuse testing" according to news articles from 2002 and her Zoom Info profile. She is listed as the "Founder" of the county "Sexual Assault Response Team" (2001/2002) also as a practicing MD.

In a 2007 document Dr, Johnson was listed as the Volunteer Medical Director: The Children’s Place, Wasilla & AK. CARES, Anchorage and in Private Practice and Medical Director, Providence Matanuska Health Care, Wasilla.

She also won AAFP Family Physician of the Year in 2001 a prestigious national award.

 

Inadequate Facilities for Preemie and Downs Syndrome

When Gov Palin got back to Anchorage she drove over an hour to Palmer/Wasilla past the 2 regional facilities that have NICU and proper staff to deal with preemies(Lungs et al) and Downs syndrome complications (heart et al). (Map to Providence  Hospital (6 mile drive) and Mat Su Palmer (45 mile drive) here.)

There is no mention of a NICU on the Mat Su site. Other web comments from local folks say the only NICU are in Anchorage. A link to a virtual tour of their birthing center is here, but does not work in my browers(??).

In fact Dr. Johnson's practice group is listed as - Providence Matanuska Healthcare in her Healthgrades profile. Providence has a number of facilities in AK from local clinics to major hospitals.

Providence in Anchorage is apparently one of the 2 facilities that has NICU et al for preemies and Downs babies in Anchorage. As mentioned before it is 6 miles from the airport.

The hospital's baby picture page for April 18 does not list the birth or show a picture. This may mean nothing due the celebrity of the baby or its Downs Syndrome.

Doctor's Competence or Complicity?

A logical question for sheer safety sake for any delivery - let alone the Governor of the state - would be why then did Dr, Johnson not meet Palin in Anchorage at the Providence facility (where she is  on staff) and deliver the baby there instead of an additional hour drive to a local, more out of the way hospital, close to the Palin home with no NICU?

From a purely malpractice perspective this would be suicidal if the facts as we are being told are true, let alone the potential medical consequences to the child.

Dr. Johnson who delivered the child at Mat Su Regional is no longer on staff at that facility. Another odd coincidence since on 2007 she was not only on staff but listed as Medical Director.

Judgment?

In terms of pure judgment I must say I am quite puzzled. Sarah Palin is clearly a good mother, an accomplished and intelligent person. As a politician it would seem that she would work hard to not do anything that could show here in a poor light under any circumstances or take risks that would.

First -  In Dallas alone there are NICU equipped hospitals thann all of Alaska. Why not use one of them and take no risk w/ the child which is going to be a preemie and you know has Downs?

Second - Giving Alaskans some leeway  that they are accustomed to traveling long distances out of necessity why not then stop in Seattle after a 4 hour flight, where many Alaskans with problem births are referred and Providence has facilities there as well?

Third - Even stretching this and saying that she felt well enough in Seallte to make the last 4 hour flight to Seattle and she is a tough lady why would you not go straight to the best facility in Alaska for preemies and special needs births that is 10-15 minutes from the airport AND in a hospital system your OB/GYN practices in?

Fourth - What reasons could there be to go to a regional facility to give birth other than being a few minutes from your home when it does not have NICU facilities?

Conclusions and Questions

The only answer I can see othe than total reckless judgment (which this mother does not seem to have) or a delberate attempt to lose the child (makes no sense based on her bio)  is that Sarah Palin:

  • Was never pregnant
  • Why would a 44-year-old woman with four kids out of diapers, embarking on her first governorship, really get pregnant?
  • Was called home for her daughter giving birth knowing that the Doctor could keep the delivery from happening until she got home.
  • Created the travel story to cover up the truth
  • Did not really know in advance that the baby had Downs Syndrome? There is no reason to do an amnio or any genetic tests on a teenager. Clearly Sarah would have had the tests at 44 as standard procedure.
    • Is there something unusual about the father if the child is Bristol's w/ Downs?

Odd Things  are Happening - X Files ??

Bristol Palin

Remember - this story did NOT originate this week, It was bubbling around AK since April.

The other alleged facts are that Bristol was out fo school for 4-5 months, while Palin was pregnant with a case of "mono". The father was also on a leave from his oil field job. Numerous web posts from AK say this was common knowledge up there and with some of her friends, none that I can substantiate however.

During that time when out with mono she had a car accident reported in the local paper:

Wasilla Police Department (Other Motorist name redacted by me)
On February 8, 2008, at 1737 hours, Wasilla Police responded to two vehicle collision at Seward Meridian Parkway and Fireweed Drive . Investigation revealed that Bristol Palin, age 17 of Wasilla, was driving a 4-door sedan and attempted to turn into a business when she struck a 2-door sedan driven by XXXXXXXXXXx, age xx, of XXXXX. Palin was issued a citation for Failing to Use Due Care to Avoid a Collision. XXXX was issued a citation for an expired registration and no proof of insurance.

Pictures to Review

Pictures are key here and we have tried to assemble them all in one place of both Sarah and Bristol.

Palin Family Holiday 2007 photo below orig. printed in the Anchorage paper 3/2008:

Also shown on web captioned as 2006 just showing up today like that. Odd.

    

Conclusion

There is a lot of smoke here but what is causing it is not clear....yet.

The issues that are troubling and need to be addressed by Gov. Palin:

  • Travelling to Dallas at 36 weeks in the first place
  • Not going directly to a Dallas hospital once her water broke which would be standard procedure per a number of posts from doctors and newspaper articles
  • Flying home 10-12 hours with fluid leaking risking infection and delivery in transit
  • Not telling the Airline
  • Bypassing the premier area hospital - Providence
    • 15 minutes from the Anchorage airport  (vs. over an hour to your own w/ no NICU)
    • With a NICU to handle a 36 week preemie w/ the double risk of Downs Syndrome baby
    • That your OB/GYN was on the staff of
  • Dr. Johnson, a practicing OB/GYN, is an expert in child and adult sexual abuse,
    • What does this mean if anything to the situation?
  • Baby delivered in the local hospital by this "expert" even though it was supposedly 4 weeks premature and had Downs Syndrome
  • Returning to work after 3 days off after this ordeal
  • Running for VP with a new special needs baby

All makes this whole thing sound really fishy...

In the least I would ask all of you does this type of risky behavior and poor decision making as it relates to Sarah Palin's own family make you comfortable that she  can be VP let alone a "heartbeat away from the Presidency"? I hope that that is all this turns out to be, but I doubt it will.


Comments (269)

Oh god.

I give up

LOL. Told you she was a game changer. Everyone is losing their mind.

Come on Lalo, twenty, or even one hundred, people here who have lost their minds is hardly everyone.

Most voters aren't obsessed.

Give them a day or two, and everyone will start leaking amniotic fluid like John Nail.

Lalo - sorry you don't see the issue here

avatar

Not nearly as sorry as we are that you do see issues where none exist.

avatar

And that you're not reading your own research -- your March 2008 airport photo is part of a journal entry that clearly says "Of course I had to check out the “Hottest Governor in the US” and quickly turned to see her pregnant (she has since had her baby) with bags and daughter in tote."

Yet you say "article mentions how "hot" the Gov. is but no pregnancy mention".

Do you not read your own stuff? No preganancy mention?!

This is not a story. Palin has enough faults without making up this sort of dreck. Leave this sort of crap to the repugnicans.

Sorry you're a goddamn Limbaugh troll masquerading as a concerned independent who thinks you're going to goad Democrats into buying your complete and total bullshit so you can try to claim some moral highground as a backlash to what people read on liberal blogs, you bottom-feeding scumbag.

Sorry you're a goddamn Limbaugh troll masquerading as a concerned independent who thinks you're going to goad Democrats into buying your complete and total bullshit so you can try to claim some moral highground as a backlash to what people read on liberal blogs, you bottom-feeding scumbag.

Sorry you're a goddamn Limbaugh troll masquerading as a concerned independent who thinks you're going to goad Democrats into buying your complete and total bullshit so you can try to claim some moral highground as a backlash to what people read on liberal blogs, you bottom-feeding scumbag.

So nice, I said it thrice.

Nice, and that's what I was thinking.

This seems like such an odd conspiracy-freak kind of story. If we swallow it, and then witnesses and doctors and other come out with proof that it's all bunk, then we've just participated in a major distraction that will be made to present ALL Obama supporters as rabid freaks who take misogynistic pleasure in attacking a woman's pregnancy.

Maybe this sounds like the thoughts of a paranoid conspiracy freak, but it sounds almost too perfect. "It's a trap!" to quote Lucas.

avatar

I agree, Lalo. It's foolish to go down this road in a purely strategic sense too, as the idea that "liberals are attacking the Palin daughter and family" is already being trumpeted in the right wing blogs. Why risk a backlash vote of women (and men?) who will feel sorry for Palin and her daughter, when Palin herself presents such rich pickings?

avatar

The issue is about lying. Last time I checked, asking about lies by a public official is not sexist.

This isn't about the family; it's about judgment: McCain's first and Palin's second (in command).

Ditto. What was it, a couple thousands words relative to a non-story?

As woefully unqualified as she is to be vice-president, to suggest that Palin, in consultation with her doctor acted negligently in the matter of the birth of her child is really Ann Coulterish.

I have never seen here at TPM the volume of garbage posting which the Palin appointment has precipitated. To the point, apparently, of causing server problems. And most of the posts are simply repeating information that has already been published and of which most TPMers have probably already read.

Chris there is rather a good bit of new info consolidated here related to the Doctor and where the baby was born in Wasilla vs. Anchorage with its neonatal care unit.

Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? Forget all the other stuff. if it is her child why would she behave like this?

You fly, at risk, get away with it then go to a hospital that doesn't have the best equipment for a preemie and Downs birth...a double risk child.

I have 3 kids and would never take the slightest risk with them or their birth especially.

Gov. Palin was probably trying to protect her daughter which is their business, until she is a candidate for VP.

To that point why would she run for VP after having this new high needs baby?

Come on folks - McCain's folks blew it here even if the child is hers. Her behavior in traveling and delivering a/ out a NICU is lunacy and to any parent that is a game changer that she would do that.

No I'm not the least bit interested. I will give Palin and her doctor the benefit of the doubt relative to this bit of tabloid type nonsense.

And who are you to pass judgment on Palin, relative to personal decisions about giving birth or raising her children?

There are many issued upon which Palin may be rightfully questioned and/or challenged; but this ain't one of them.

One thing we should challenge her with is what kind of nonsense she believes schools should teach, i.e. abstinence in lieu of sex education, and creationism.

I agree completely.

I really don't care what anyone does personally.
But, she makes an issue out of the fact that she is so pro-life she never questioned whether to have a down's syndrome baby. She doesn't even believe in birth control, not even condoms for a married couple. She believes in abstinence only education.

IF, she wasn't running for VP, I would say it's nobody's business. But, since she believes these positions should be made the law of the land, while all the while this whole thing is a deception(?),
damn straight I want to know. This goes to credibility. The right loves her story, they wouldn't be so enthusiastic if this were not true.
Also goes to judgment. Any 44 yr old is already in a high risk pregnancy. The down syndrome diagnosis only heightens that risk. Premature delivery makes strike three. I know no one who would get on a plane for so many hours and then travel additional time by car to go to a less than equipped rural hospital for such a risky birth.

Either way, it's not good. Reflects poorly on her as a Mom.

This coming from a 44 yr old mother of three.



Of course, if anyone asks my age in the future, I'll claim amnesia.

She doesn't even believe in birth control, not even condoms for a married couple. She believes in abstinence only education.

And presumably she believes abstinence only education works.

This is a "faith-based" belief on her part, of course.

avatar

I agree. I also want to point out that a major news anchor apparently gushed about how tough it was that Palin got on the plane in labor. I have written ACOG (American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) to request they consider some kind of statement about her irresponsible behavior. There are many child bearing aged women who find her a wonderful example of what they believe in.

Oh, BTW. I'm an RN, 31 years. Lived in AK from '80 to '94 and worked critical care at Sisters of Providence from '84 to '93. I saw one comment from a woman who still lives there and had a high risk child in big trouble at the other major hospital in Anchorage that had to be sent to SoP because they were better equipped to handle the infants needs for a ventilator.

I am also a Unitarian-Universalist - the denomination of the Tennessee church where the gunman interrupted the kids performance about a month ago. We have had a really excellent sexuality education program for over 20 years. I totally believe that there is plenty of reason to expose and discuss her beliefs, how well they have worked in her own family and how she thinks we should be forced to follow them when her own actions and success are far short of convincing.

These are excellent comments.

What is truly outraging, too, is that now that her daughter's pregnancy has been revealed, she is trumpeting this as a 'pro-life' 'pro-family values' arrangement where the daughter is being 'married off' in a manner that speaks to political expedience, not concern for the welfare of her daughter.
Now that the pregnancy has been revealed, the marriage must quickly follow. What century are we living in? I am disturbed by all the commenters here incensed about the supposed violation of the family's privacy, when it is clear that Palin is simply using her daughter as a billboard for 'family values.'

avatar

Gee, it's okay for Palin to self-righteously lecture other women on their choices regarding abortion, but not okay for us to question hers? Seriously? How can it be that it is okay for her to believe that no woman, even a rape victim, should be endowed with the right to choose whether to terminate the pregnancy, yet she is immune from our questioning whether she really is the pro-child person she says she is?

You do get, do you not, that anti-choicers like Palin try to hide their misogyny by presenting themselves as pro-child, right? So whether she really is pro-child is now fair game. Sorry.

avatar

This goes to judgment and possibly honesty. As a mother of three (including a set of twins)I'm at a loss to find any justification of Palin's Dallas trip. First, high risk pregnant mothers (down's sydrome and over 40)would not be cleared to fly. Especially when leaking amniotic fluid. When a baby is 35/36 weeks there is still the chance that the lungs might not be developed (this was the case with my twins) and her OB would want her immediately under care where there is a NICU if possible. Why? Because if the lungs are not developed enough or there are other problems a NICU is prepared to deal with it. At the very least, if Palin were truly "leaking amniotic fluid" her OB would have met her in Anchorage at one of the hospitals that has a NICU. This just doesn't pass the smell test. And yes, she may be trying to protect her daughter - but now that same daughter is going to under the extreme scrutiny of the national press - how is that protecting her?

It is very clear that McCain's team did not thorough vet this VP choice, which goes to HIS executive decision abilities.

avatar

Hey John,
Great post with a lot of leg work, cudos! Since you are collecting info on all available pics, I have what I believe is some deep background for this picture taken I believe on March 6-7, the weekend she announced her pregnancy, by KTVA 11 reporter Andrea Gusty.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30076181@N02/2814199887/in/photostream/

If interested let me know and I'll send a full copy.

avatar

It's just something that should be looked into. If it's proven false people should shut their trap, if not then she is Thomas Eagleton. I won't touch this one though, that is for sure.

"to suggest that Palin, in consultation with her doctor acted negligently in the matter of the birth of her child is really Ann Coulterish."

Since when is stating a fact "Ann Coulterish?" You obviously don't know anything about pregnant women and airline flights. We are talking about flying an equivalent distance of New York to LA and then halfway back to NY.

I don't understand why people who don't want to discuss this topic keep telling those of us who do to stop talking. Stop reading these topics if you don't like them!

I haven't told anyone "to stop talking". I'm simply disagreeing. I don't understand how it is you are unable to understand the difference.

Oh, by the way no one has established the "fact" that Palin acted negligently in the matter.

Her doctor was designated the "country’s Family Practice Physician of the Year in 2002" and the local hospital provides maternity care.

I think it is exceedingly arrogant of those who do, to think, based upon information gleaned from the internet that they are more qualified than Palin and her doctor to determine what is appropriate.

There's no way her judgment was sound here - unless it's a cover-up of her daughter's pregnancy, quite likely from sexual abuse, which most often involves a relative. If it is a cover-up, we might want to respect the daughter and drop this. Except for the moral dimension: the daughter should have had an abortion, which would have avoided any potential cascade of lies, and not left the family with a child who is the product of sexual abuse.

If it's not all that, and she really risked the baby with those flights, Palin has horribly bad judgment. But then, all creationists do. Not necessarily this bad though.

avatar

Bunk. Total bunk.

I agree. Total bullpucky.

avatar

No no Gasket this is great stuff. Not only did she hide her daughter's pregnancy and pretend the baby was her's now its because some relative was sexually abusing her. What do you think, can this go any lower? I'm totally enthralled. There was many a time during this campaign season when I was angry but now its become a comedic farce.

The show must go on.

avatar

"Her doctor was designated the "country’s Family Practice Physician of the Year in 2002" and the local hospital provides maternity care"

I only recently rejoined the world of the living, and my cyber skills are limited. I forget where I saw this, but this was submitted somewhere as further proof of the conspiracy, as it was Palin who gave the doctor this honor.

avatar

This doctor was also Palin's close friend and had received awards from Palin herself. This was not a typical doctor-patient relationship. But again, you fail to see that this is an issue because Palin made it an issue. Anyone who has the fucking gall to tell other women what they should and should not do with their bodies is fair game on her own reproductive choices. If she was pro-choice, and not a self-rightoeous hypocrite, this would be a non-starter.

avatar

Uh, where is the hypocrisy? Do you even know what that means? Doubtful. She is pro life, she had the baby. The end. Get a clue.

Amazing.
With all the political things that are obviously, objectively, manifestly wrong with Palin as a VP candidate, some people on this site are obsessing about amniotic fluid!
Folks, sit back and let the National Enquirer do its self-appointed job.
They are far better at it.
BTW, if you are an Obama supporter, you should want this ditz to stay on the McCain ticket.

No, her off would be better, but not because everyone is playing around online with water-break-gate. Imagine how inept it would make him look with so little time left to go.

avatar

The last time I saw a reaction like this to a story was when the Enquirer broke the Edwards story. We know how that worked out.

Something in this whole story stinks, and I think people are going to start to smell it all over the country in the next couple days.

Great work. The Repubs would be all over this if the situation were reversed.

Tree Huggers Fight Back.

avatar

Oh goodness. I'm embarrassed that this is the top reader story on TPM. Leave this crap to the Kos nut jobs.

I am not one to always fear backlash, but coming off of a long primary against a woman whose campaign charged sexism, I think that the appearance of sexism should be avoided by people who wish to see Barack Obama take the oath of office.

We should leave this topic to newspapers and the Enquirer. If this revealed to be meaningless, let the press take the hit, not Obama and his supporters.

Hear the man.

jdw: Good idea. Moratorium on discussing Sarah Palin for at least a week. Let's let hungry journalists trying to make a name for themselves go Into The Wild and try to dig something up on her since McCain's team OBVIOUSLY never vetted the Governor. (Let's hop MSM provides a budget for journalists to make the trek to AK.)

avatar

Yep.

I fear this is actually a setup.

If false rumors were planted, and then "proven" false, it would play on the victim/sympathy card for Palin.

Really, this baby business is a little weird, not really any of our business, and ultimately irrelevant.

Palin is a fringe rightwing nutjob. Her freaky radical views should be topic number one. A creationist in the white house??! Not abortion in the case of rape/incest?? No contraception even among married couples???? Yikes.

On top of it, she has ethical problems. I'd prefer to let her dig her own grave lying and flipfloping on her wrongdoing. Let the big sharktank that is the national media spotlight do its job.

avatar

You make a good point. The appeal for me is that this is something that involves facts. As Reagan so accidently said, "Facts are stubborn things." There is something odd here; there is an ultimate answer.

But you can't go after that other stuff. She has idiotic beliefs, and there is no place for dialog. She chooses to believe that the Earth is 5,000 years old, and science, facts, have no meaning. You may as well explain string theory to your dog.

One important reason why this is relevant is that the Republicans and Palin are exploiting this baby as proof that "Palin not only talks the talk but she walks the walk." Translated, "she not only says she is 'pro-life' she has lived it."

Check out the videos of her acceptance where the child is bounced around getting full exposure and he is only 4 months old!

There are other reasons why this is relevant but this is the most deplorable one.

Too many people are involved in this cover-up for it to stay quiet.

Agathena,

Nonsense. You don't have the data the doctor and mother relied on. Neither does this AClown John Nail.

Without her medical test data, labs, ultrasounds, heart monitoring, you can't conclude that a NICU would be necessary in every Downs case. You don't seem to have data on the severity of Trig's Downs and how that figures into doc's and mom's decision making.

In other words, for all of the super-official sounding cross examination on this irrelevant issue by Nail, heaping evidence immaterial to her qualification to be a VP on top of personal attack innuendo ad absurdum, this is just a sorry, hypocritical witch hunt.

And it's exactly the type of thing Obama says he doesn't want to see anymore. I agree with him. I guess Nail and Steevo are trying to become the blogger Ken Starr's of the Demogogic arm of the Democratic Party. Why not just cut that arm off and let it join LaRouche. It's about as rational.

Mike - this is the Clown responding to you. We've tried to provide some facts and details to this bizarre story. I am no Ken Starr or a loon but just a man who has 3 kids all born normally fortunately. I have friends who have had premies from 4 - 12 weeks early and have a college roommate who is a NICU MD. A little research on the googles also goes a long way as well as some of your fellow posters who are Md's

Lets try this a different way. If you were the father what level of risk is acceptable for your unborn/newborn regardless of any pre birth diagnosis? ZERO

Now look at the facts as Palin, her doctor and the news present them:

This child is 4 weeks early and has Downs- a double whammy for problems. The mother just flew 12 hours and her water had broken/was leaking opening up infection possibilities. The 2 NICU's in AK are within minutes of the airport, capable of handling anything and you choose drive another hour to a regional medical center that is equipped for normal deliveries and you use your family practice physician for delivery. Premies routinely at 36 weeks can have lung development issues and Downs kids 50% of the time have heart problems and 10% of the time digestive system issues.

So your point is that challenging this type of behavior and judgment as reckless and not ready for primetime in the Oval office is somehow inappropriate?

avatar

Wrong. I was 38 years old with my first pregnancy. (Actually tested okay genetically but turned out to have autism which is not relevant here.) I was 36-1/2 weeks' pregnant and got my doc's permission to fly on Christmas eve. I had had a "perfect" pregnancy. I was already in labor and didn't realize it -- back pains at 8 months, ask a woman. Anyway, they took me to the hospital on Xmas morning in Junction City Kansas. A little community hospital -- the only one in town. The 70+ year-old doc in charge on Xmas was told by the one OB/GYN in town that day that if ANYTHING changed, they were to send me to the nearest regional medical center. That night, in the middle of a blizzard, I was transported by ambulance 60 miles to Topeka, where I ultimately delivered my premature, otherwise healthy baby, who had to stay in the hospital for a month to catch up. Her story simply does not make any sense. Her judgement or lack thereof and her family issues were really between her and the people of Alaska -- until McCain chose her to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. What is happening now was inevitable under these circumstances. McCain should never have picked someone (his "soul mate") without full vetting. If true, her daughter got pregnant and the family covered it up -- like so many families have done. Ms. Palin doesn't strike me as stupid and must have known the impact this type of story would have on her daughter. She apparently chose her personal ambition over her family. So much for family values. There's just a lot of stuff here that isn't logical and/or is contradictory. The threads are being pulled and the truth will ultimately come out. She may be a barracuda, but she is swimming with the sharks and the sharks smell blood.

Focus on judgment and decision-making. And stay away from theatrics. Use only facts to critique judgment and decision-making, in effect "character." In the end, that's all that matters. Doesn't matter who the mother of the kid is. Only thing that matters is the story Palin tells and what it says about judgment and decision-making.

Keep it simple. Keep it factual; assume her story is factual. Then ask... is this good judgment? Is this the kind of decision-making you want in the leader of the free world? (if they ever accord us any respect again!!!)

Well Put! The poor baby and daughter are not really relevant but will be collateral damage from her behavior.

avatar

I think everyone commenting here misses the essential point in that, with a list of "choices" a proverbial mile long (not withstanding how she made them), Ms Palin clearly qualifies as PRO-CHOICE. Judging by the pants-pissing exultation for this unknown national neophyte exibited by the demented denizens of the country's lunatic leper colony, I'd say that they don't get it either.

How nice for a women to have reproductive choices, even if she takes advantage of none of them. And how nice to live in a country that guarantees these choices to all women as a matter of law. So, why then does the reactionary republican party celebrate an unknown woman for vice president of the country who claims she wants none of these choices available for any woman but herself? Orwellian Doublethink? Typical rank republican-party hypocrisy? Utter and boundless republican-party cynicism? Just asking ...

avatar

Word.

By the way Dr.Cathy Baldwin-Johnson works at the Providence Matanuska-Susitna Valley health care facility, which has an NICU facility.

This post would fit really well at No Quarter.

Chris the NICU is at the main Providence compex in Anchorage - 6 miles from the airport not the local facility Trig was born in 45 miles away.

All local NICU issues go here. That is the entire point of why this all makes no sense.

You fly 12 hours - get away without delivering in the air and then bypass the ICU for a local hospital for a premie birth of a Downs Syndrome child w/ a family practicioner, not even a full time Ob GYN.

Something just isn't right with this equation. Sarah Palin is obviously a good mom and smart lady.

Even if she took the risk to get home the right thing to do is go to the hospital you found.

Chris, I know I am wasting my time here, but you don't know what your are talking about. Your link is to Providence Hospital in Anchorage. All the news articles I have read says she delivered her baby in Wasilla at the Mat-Su Regional Hospital. Have you ever been to Alaska? The only NICU in the state is in Anchorage.

No I have never been to Alaska. And I see that you are correct the NICU is at an Anchorage though Providence does have a hospital in Wasilla.

I guess that settles it, Palin was negligent. That's heavy sarcasm, by the way.

Steevo, thanks....the only NICU 6 miles from Anchorage airport after a 12 hour flight, leaking fluid with contractions 1-2 per hour....4 weeks premie and Downs diagnosed...what am I missing?

This didn't come through on post below.

Providence Matanuska Health Care
Telephone Number:
(907) 352-6200
Facility Location:
1700 East Bogard Road, Suite 100
Wasilla, Alaska 99654

avatar

I've been to Alaska. In fact, I've delivered two babies in Anchorage and you are absolutely right to question any decision to drive TO Wasilla FROM Anchorage to deliver a premature and special needs child while your in early labor. My children were past their due dates and my doctor insisted that I stay with relatives in Anchorage and not in Wasilla when I was close to delivery and I wasn't even leaking fluid. Alaska heath care is poor even in Anchorage, but outside Anchorage, forget about it! All sorts of Alaskans have to travel to Anchorage for care.

And, let's not forget that this is April in Alaska when the roads are not the best. I'm not yet buying the whole "the baby isn't hers" hype--but something here just doesn't make sense.

Thanks for some real life input. I only care about her judgment in the national political debate - I am sorry that her kids are going to be dragged into the truth coming out..

avatar
I am sorry that her kids are going to be dragged into the truth coming out

No you're not.

avatar

And one other thing....

As a tactical campaign matter, a significant number of American voters qualify as "low information" types; and the reactionary repugnant party has made much electoral hay over the decades distracting, misleading, and confusing this demographic with virulent, viral vituperation repeated ad nauseum in sub-rational sound-byte slander. Democrats at the presidential level have become famous for losing because they do not undersand the primitive appeal that lurid scandal -- no matter how fictitious -- has for too many Americans. Someone once told Democrat Adlai Stevenson that "every thinking American is for you!" Replied the eventual loser Stevenson: "Yes, but I need a majority." No successful candidate for the Presidency of the United States ever succeeds by appealing solely to rational, articulate people. In America, "inquiring minds want to know ..."

Therefore, assisting a tabloid story like this to go viral for at least a week or two might do all the damage necessary -- from a Democratic Party point of view. Those "high information" American voters who care about modernity and rational government policy will vote Democratic in any event. Such people do not constitute a majority, however. Somehow, the low-information types must get their fear-and-loathing fix one way or another; and as a Democratic Party partisan, I would much rather that the shit-stories revolve around irresponsible, reckless republicans than anyone else. I can always take a shower later and wash the stink away -- after President Barack Obama takes his oath of office.

As the Irish always sing: "You take the High Road and I'll take the Low Road and we'll get to the White House instead of THEM."

Excellent points. This is the Jerry Springer crowd we are talking about. They LOVE a good scandal, God bless 'em. I hope this thing explodes all over the headlines.

I am, am I. Here's the link again

Chris - search "intensive care" on the regional site search link and here is what you get for the Anchorage hospital. Steevo confirmed the same...I'm being critical of you at all this is confusing with these rural areas and named facilities. A town of 9000 can't support a NICU. Even in a city the size of Atlanta we only have a few.

"Newborn Intensive Care Unit (NICU)

Our 38-bed level II & level III unit is the regional referral center for the State of Alaska serving all Alaskans including the Alaska Native and military populations. We do this through our LifeGuard Air Ambulance transport services with a specialized prenatal team, and our Providence House, which provides guest housing for parents and family traveling from outside Anchorage.

The types of medical challenges treated in the unit include: pre-term birth, babies born at 22 weeks gestation and weighing as little as 1 pound, 1 ounce; Babies born with an infection; Babies who are stressed during birth and need more attention than in the newborn nursery; Babies born with a congenital anomaly such as spina bifida, bowel conditions and heart defects."

I see that you are correct I looked through the Providence Alaska site and was led through the Providence Matanuska Health Care, in Wasilla, to the NICU info, which apparently refers to the facility in Anchorage.

My mistake. None-the-less, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. There are lots of things for which Palin should be criticized but this matter is not one of them.

Chris - not a matter of right or wrong for us voters - the dog does not hunt in terms of a woman of this quality behaving negligently for an unborn child. Not her MO at all.

The truth is gonna come out and unfortunately since McCain's folks did not have time to fully vet her her kids are going to be hurt and she is going to be disgraced rather than simply doing something to protect her daughter like people have done before and will in the future.

avatar
a woman of this quality

Trollspeak.

avatar

Here is a question that came to my mind. Does the baby really have Downs syndrome? Or is this meant to foreclose speculation that about why he may look different enough from his brother and sisters to not be a sibling?

avatar

The above is speculative. Given Sarah Palin has lied on other issues, it is not unreasonable to speculate that she may have lied on this issue.

However, the greater issue of Palin's judgment in taking risks with travel to Texas and back, delaying her return to give a speech even though her water broke, is much more important.

The story of Palin's Troopergate scandal is also a key area of focus. Troopergate shows John McCain's lack of judgment in picking a running mate who has misused her power in office.


<