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Unless NATO Stands Down, Russia Expected To Pre-Emptively Strike Poland

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Order of Battle

Russia is expected to pre-emptively attack the agreed-to Polish missile
shield-sites and the support bases. Russia would rather not attack
specific fuel supplies in Poland, but if NATO refuses to heed Russian
demands, Polish fuel supplies around the agreed-to-missile support base
will likely be attacked.


Russia, as with it's decision to cut ties with NATO, is likely to more
quickly than NATO anticipates. Russian naval  units in the Black Sea
are expected to engage in a blockade of Poland to intercept all
material support for the missile shield. Russia does not expect to be
confronted when narrowly targeting the equipment for the missile Shield.


If Russian forces are opposed, and NATO continues to deploy the Missile
Shield, Russia is expected to view all ancilary support and associated
NATO conventional forces as necessary for NATO to support, deploy, and
offensively use the Missile Shield. In Russia's view, the NATO forces
less connected with the Missile Shield would be logical, legitimate
military targets.



Russia's overture to Norway is important. Russia intends to use the
shipping lanes north of Russia to deploy submarines and harass Iceland,
Ireland, and Britain. NATO should reasonably expect worldwide harassment on all levels to further drain NATO forces from Afghanistan, and create more problems than Brussels can manage. America's security promises to Taiwan, South Korea and Japan will be tested.

Legal Warfare

The Russians view NATO as, all but in name, as having declared war on
Russia. Russia views seriously the signed agreement to deploy the
missile shield in Poland.

America's support in promptly returning 2,000 Georgian troops establishes an important legal principle. America's involvement in Georgia sets the legal stage for Russia to argue that the United States took illegal, overt military action against Russia in an internal security matter.

There is a legal precedent for the Russian pre-emptive strike on
Poland: The American President's pre-emptive strike on non-existent,
non-imminent threats in Iraq; the planned pre-emptive strikes in Iran;
and the Isreali pre-emptive strikes on Syria and Iraq.

Russian lawyers are expected to make a strong case, especially with the
American-Isreali actions in the Middle East that Russia was doing
nothing different than DOJ OLC legal counsel said the American
Persident and Isreal could lawfully do.

Russia views the NATO Missile Shield in Poland as the same as the
American missiles in Turkey during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Russia
views the Missile Shield as an offensive weapon designed to eliminate
Russia's nuclear deterrent. Russia views the Missile Shield as an
unacceptable, prepatory provocation, similar to how JFK viewed the
Russian missiles in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia, in her view, has exhausted reasonable efforts to reach a
negotiated solution. The Russians are done talking to what they view an
unresponsive, uncooperative, and arrogant NATO and American military.
Russia has, in their view, attempted to peacefully resolve these
issues, and attempted to help NATO and the American leadership
understand Russia's security concerns.



Although the American leadership has spent time listening, Russia views
the Americans has giving Russia lip service, and not interested in any
dialog or reasonable solution to Russia's security concerns.

Russia's Preference Over Conventional Than Nuclear Confrontation

Poland's reaction to Russia's security efforts in Georgia tells Russia what it long feared: The Missile Shield is intended to be used against Russia in an offensive capacity.

Russia knows from Chernobyl the devastating effectives of nuclear radiation and would rather now have a finite conventional confrontation with NATO than have a nuclear confrontation with perpetual, residual effects.

Russia's Loss of Confidence in NATO, American Leadership

The Russian President feels personally betrayed by the American President who looked him in the eye, and promised Peace. President Bush has delivered war, with NATO's tacit agreement, without a plan to constrain his illegal use of power.

Superior Russian Intelligence

Russia views American intelligence is dysfunctional, still not yet mobilized to engage with real enemies in Afghanistan or Iraq. Russia does not take seriously the NATO intelligence operations in Europe.

Career American and NATO intelligence officers, rather than conduct simulation testing or gathering intelligence to support NATO defenses have been putting their intelligence gathering centers on informal holidays. This when the Americans and NATO were supposedly at war against terrorism.

Rather than spend time gathering real intelligence about the risks of Russian combat forces on NATO soil, the American intelligence community has wasted energy harassing American civilians.

Russia plans to prevail over a dysfunctional NATO and American military command structure. The American public has underestimated the error of Speaker Pelosi refusing to confront this President over impeachable offenses.


Comments (10)

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Russia's concern is the missile sites in Poland, supported by the Czech Republic radar system, will be used for a non-nuclear, conventional purpose, reaching deep inside Russia, unrelated to Iran. NATO and the United States have not effectively addressed these Russian concerns. Russia expressly said it would use non-diplomatic options, a clear statement of an intent to use military force.

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The American media has misconstrued what the Russians really intend. Here is the English, which has incorrectly mis-translated what Russia said.

"In this case Russia will be forced to react, and not only through diplomatic" channels, it said without elaborating.

Notice the quotation ends after "diplomatic." They eliminated a key word. Russia did not say "diplomatic channels," but it would use non-diplomatic options.

This has been misconstrued:

дипломатические демарши

Demarche [ демарши ] means pressure to achieve an outcome, it is not simply a diplomatic channel. One does size or shape of the container; it is what is in the container -- and it's potential to be used -- that is of concern. The West is focusing on the wrong aspect of Russia's language.

Russia is convinced NATO and the US plan to use the conventional capabilities of the Missile Shield. As with the DOJ OLC memos outlining the "option" to conduct illegal activity, the President reminded Russia that DOJ OLC and the President do not seek options unless they plan to use them, even illegally against innocent American civilians.

The Russians are emphasizing non-diplomatic options to achieve their objectives, and are not talking about simply using a different color of paper during negotiations.

Russia, in her view, doesn't need to elaborate; and all Russian efforts to elaborate Russia's internal security concerns have been ineffectual. NATO and Georgia ignored Russia's overt use of force in Georgia and still plan to use, what Russia views, as a conventional-missile support system in Poland. There is no confusion in the minds of Russia that NATO, the American President, and Congress know full well what Russia is concerned about; and what the American government is ignoring: Russia's internal security obligations.

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Correction

This: "One does size or shape of the container; it is what is in the container -- and it's potential to be used -- that is of concern."

Should read:

"One does not narrowly care about the size or shape of the container; it is what is in the container -- and it's potential to be used -- that is of concern."

They won't strike the emplacement, as we did not do so over Cuba. They will simply place it on a target list.

If, as planned, there are to be ten interceptor missiles at the one site, that will be easily confirmed. Such a small number is most useful as favor to contractors building it, to Poland for its support for Bush (hard cash coming in), and an intended insult to Russia. It is close to useless for even a single Iranian or Russian ICBM.

Russia simply points out an obvious consequence for Poland, that it is now a strategic target.

I am a bit mystified that our strategic "thinkers" can still play this game. Iran would never simply launch a single missile, only to be utterly destroyed, so the defense is moot. Ditto Russia. The difference is Russia would launch a crapload of missiles, so the defense is still meaningless.

But even this is not an issue, since Russia would not invite its own destruction. So it's an elaborate game of insults, and everyone hopes to get what they want without drawing swords, or worse, using them.

Really pisses me off. Poland is not the only place for this Potemkin defense. It is just the most insulting.

interceptor missiles have a success rate in the fully optimized and controlled conditions that are used in missile testing of 7 successes in 12 attempts. that is, the best interceptors we had, that knew what the missiles looked like, their speeds, origins, and trajectories, could barely make 50% or their targets.

the russians have something like 20,000 nukes.

i dunno how many icbm's they have, but it's gotta be enough that they wouldn't really have to take a 10-interceptor shield seriously if they intended to conduct a nuclear ballistic missile strike.

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The Russians view the West-NATO-US as downplaying Russians concerns, and not taking Russia's security interests seriously.

Whether NATO does or doesn't deploy nuclear missile interceptors is only part of the Russian concern: They are concerned the sites could be used to deploy conventional, offensive missiles at Russia. A nuclear missile shield goes one step further: Effectively denies Russia of any chance of using nuclear weapons as a deterrent.

It's not certain what the Russian's "wont" do. The Russians have not taken this off the table:

They won't strike the emplacement, as we did not do so over Cuba.

The US didn't strike because the US and Russia agreed to a solution. The failure to agree prompted Russia to invade Georgia, NATO-US proxy against Russia.

T

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I work with several Russians here in the US and the way it was phrased to me was "How would you like it if the old Warsaw Pact placed missles in Mexico ?"

It was food for thought.

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Russia As Sovereign Power

Russia appears to reject the implicit American approach: That Russia, in the American view, is merely a fourth branch of the US government, one for the President and Congress to jointly roll over the judiciary, as Congress-President with with FISA and POW abuses. Russia is a sovereign power and can do what the Congress refuses to do: Confront the President.

A weapon system includes not only the missiles but, in this case, the radar system which collects information. Russia apears to be concerned that even if the missiles were removed, the forward deployed radar would look deeply into Russia, and forward this information to aerial platforms targeting Russia.

This does not mean that NATO should roll over. The question is whether Russia and NATO have adequately agreed on a timetable and/or plan to resolve the differences. In Russia's view, NATO-America has no plan to respect Russia's genuine security interests; there is no reason to pretend any hope exists for NATO to constructively engage with Russia, prompting Russia to withdraw from all NATO contact.

Russia observes the American government's approach to agreements -- in FISA, GEneva, or the US Constitution -- as a fair warning NATO-America would not fully respect agreements with Russia.

Operational Systems, Plans NATO Intends to Use Against Russia

This appears to downplay the concern Russia has: Poland is not merely on a target list, but part of an alliance that has weapons NATO intends to use against Russia:

"They will simply place it on a target list.. . Russia simply points out an obvious consequence for Poland, that it is now a strategic target."

Russia's actions in Georgia show Russia is not likely to stick with a passive "put that on the list"-approach, but implement operational military plans. Russia is implicitly saying, "We're not going to wait to be proven wrong. We're making decisions based on the interests of Russia. NATO doesn't respect Russia's interests."

NATO Does Not Seriously Consider Russia's Position, "No Deployment"

This narrowly looks at the Russian concerns in terms of the missiles in Poland, not the larger issue of the radar system in the Czech Republic. This incorrectly assumes Russia does not take action, before deployment, to thwart the use of the missile site:

Invalid deployment assumption "If, as planned, there are to be ten interceptor missiles at the one site, that will be easily confirmed."

Russia does not appear to plan to "confirm" or "not confirm" anything. Their position, for now, is: "There will be no deployment of this offensive weapon system along our border."

NATO has not adequately worked with Russia to constructively reassure Russia with actions, plans, or any cooperative effort to ensure the system is effectively constrained as an exclusive defensive system. Russia is reminded by the Israelis that the idea of 'defense' is to invade.

Whether a missile is "confirmed" as an interceptor, nuclear weapon, or a conventional missile misses the point: The Russians are signaling they have no plan to cooperate NATO-America deploy the system, much less activate any site.

Even if the site is activated, and the missiles are deployed without a Russian attack, the American-NATO approach to this system does not appear to effectively address Russian's concerns about compliance. Technically, it is not a simple issue of "confirming" anything as a weapon can be fabricated, as evidenced by the Russian inflatable subs designed to make NATO believe the Russian sub was still in port, while it was really far from home.

Unacceptable NATO Foothold

Russia views the personnel used (whether they are contractors or military) is secondary to the core concern: Once a small number of personnel or weapon systems are established, NATO could increase the numbers in one site, then expand the number of sites along Russia's European and Central Asian borders.

Intrusive Camel's Nose "Such a small number is most useful as favor to contractors building it, to Poland for its support for Bush (hard cash coming in), and an intended insult to Russia."

Iran is an interesting issue: Despite no evidedence Iran is developing a nuclear weapon, there's the myth that this system will counter-act Iranian missiles. Even if NATO were to counteract, with this system, the Iranians, NATO appears to not comprehend the Russian intention of defending Iran.

No Iranian Nuclear Weapons "It is close to useless for even a single Iranian or Russian ICBM."

If the system is "useless" as a defensive system, it would be reasonable to consider the Russian conclusion: It's an offensive-combat-support system.

It's incorrect to begin to (implicitly) point to the speculative Iranian "mushroom" cloud, especially given there is no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program.

Iran appears to be a red herring: A convenient excuse NATO attempted to use to justify deploying a system in Europe. That makes no sense. Why not base the system within an American ally along Russia's southern border? The only reasonable answer, in Russia's view, is that the intended objective of the European-based missile shield is to confront Russia, not Iran.

This appears to assume Iran would act alone; and have no active support from other Russian-Chinese-friendly allies to jointly launch missiles:

"Iran would never simply launch a single missile, only to be utterly destroyed, so the defense is moot."

It's not certain that Iran, even if it were to attack a NATO-ally (under what conditions?) that Iran would be destroyed (by whom; and what consequences to that attacking country?).

Iran has allies, and the US approach to Iraq shows that the US is not able to completely destroy, but ignore a country's resolve.

This ignores the conventional aspect of Russia's concerns:

"Ditto Russia. The difference is Russia would launch a crapload of missiles, so the defense is still meaningless."

NATO At Risk of Collapsing

Things are not going well for NATO in Afghanistan. This needs to consider the issue from the perspective of NATO's defensive requirements for Europe:

"But even this is not an issue, since Russia would not invite its own destruction."

NATO, by ignoring Russia and deploying the missile shield, could be argued to be inviting its own destruction. In the Russian view, NATO is not about defense, but seeking, in the Russian view, a pretext -- as it did through Georgia -- of provoking Russia. That is not a defensive posture, but one that is bullying, confrontational, and hardly evidence of a "Post" cold war.

Russian Action in Georgia

Russia's actions in Georgia shows the Russians have moved beyond the insults, and are using their power to confront the President, Congress, and NATO:

"So it's an elaborate game of insults, and everyone hopes to get what they want without drawing swords, or worse, using them. Really pisses me off. Poland is not the only place for this Potemkin defense. It is just the most insulting."

Issues Americans, NATO, Russia Need to Resolve

Russia doesn't believe NATO is serious about resolving anything, but preparing for a confrontation with Russia. Except for missiles in Turkey, ground launched cruise missiles, and naval-based missiles, Russia during the Cold War didn't have to contend with a similar weapon system in Europe.

A few issues the Americans have not adequately addressed in public:

A. It seems odd, in the Russian view, that, despite the victory of the Cold war, NATO wants to deploy this potential offensive weapon-support system.

- What's changed to justify supporting this system as opposed to going back to the Cold War;

B. The timetable appears artificially driven, as was the case with the Iraq invasion.

- What's the urgency of deploying this system on the given timetable;

C. NATO-America, as with PNAC-Iraq, appears to have made a decision, and plans to achieve the outcome regardless its prudence or folly.

- Why is the United States not willing to accommodate the Russian security interests;

D. NATO combat forces are stretched:

- Despite the NATO setbacks in Afghanistan, what credible deterrent does NATO have for Europe;

E. NATO, in Russia's view, was surprised by the Russian neutralization of the Georgian command and control, suggesting NATO may have unrealistic assumptions about the equipment its NATO allies. It does not seem likely that NATO would hold more advanced systems in reserve and not fully use them in Afghanistan.

F. Russia is emboldened from Georgia's military defeat, and speedy command and control implosion:

- Why should anyone believe the former-USSR satellite states will have more modern command and control systems than the Russians neutralized in Georgia;

G. The Americans do not appear to be trustworthy. The American President detests the rule of law, international obligations under Geneva, and written agreements he had with the American public on FISA.

- What assurances can NATO-America provide despite the demonstrated defiance to written agreements?

H. If Iran were a real threat, as NATO says, NATO has not convinced Russia that NATO has developed a reasonable plan to engage with Iran.

- Why isn't this system being jointly deployed by NATO-Russia long the border with Iran;

I. NATO forces depend on American support, but the United States is stretched into Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite 9-11, the President is distracted in Iraq. A confrontation in Europe will complicate the NATO mission in Afghanistan.

- How does the United States, without a military draft, propose to provide defensive support to NATO in Europe while still deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan;

- If there are reserve NATO forces available to defend Europe, why weren't those reserves called immediately after 9-11 to swiftly resolve the issues in Afghanistan?

avatar

[Corrected HTML]

Russia As Sovereign Power

Russia appears to reject the implicit American approach: That Russia, in the American view, is merely a fourth branch of the US government, one for the President and Congress to jointly roll over the judiciary, as Congress-President with with FISA and POW abuses. Russia is a sovereign power and can do what the Congress refuses to do: Confront the President.

A weapon system includes not only the missiles but, in this case, the radar system which collects information. Russia apears to be concerned that even if the missiles were removed, the forward deployed radar would look deeply into Russia, and forward this information to aerial platforms targeting Russia.

This does not mean that NATO should roll over. The question is whether Russia and NATO have adequately agreed on a timetable and/or plan to resolve the differences. In Russia's view, NATO-America has no plan to respect Russia's genuine security interests; there is no reason to pretend any hope exists for NATO to constructively engage with Russia, prompting Russia to withdraw from all NATO contact.

Russia observes the American government's approach to agreements -- in FISA, GEneva, or the US Constitution -- as a fair warning NATO-America would not fully respect agreements with Russia.

Operational Systems, Plans NATO Intends to Use Against Russia

This appears to downplay the concern Russia has: Poland is not merely on a target list, but part of an alliance that has weapons NATO intends to use against Russia:

"They will simply place it on a target list.. . Russia simply points out an obvious consequence for Poland, that it is now a strategic target."

Russia's actions in Georgia show Russia is not likely to stick with a passive "put that on the list"-approach, but implement operational military plans. Russia is implicitly saying, "We're not going to wait to be proven wrong. We're making decisions based on the interests of Russia. NATO doesn't respect Russia's interests."

NATO Does Not Seriously Consider Russia's Position, "No Deployment"

This narrowly looks at the Russian concerns in terms of the missiles in Poland, not the larger issue of the radar system in the Czech Republic. This incorrectly assumes Russia does not take action, before deployment, to thwart the use of the missile site:

Invalid deployment assumption "If, as planned, there are to be ten interceptor missiles at the one site, that will be easily confirmed."

Russia does not appear to plan to "confirm" or "not confirm" anything. Their position, for now, is: "There will be no deployment of this offensive weapon system along our border."

NATO has not adequately worked with Russia to constructively reassure Russia with actions, plans, or any cooperative effort to ensure the system is effectively constrained as an exclusive defensive system. Russia is reminded by the Israelis that the idea of 'defense' is to invade.

Whether a missile is "confirmed" as an interceptor, nuclear weapon, or a conventional missile misses the point: The Russians are signaling they have no plan to cooperate NATO-America deploy the system, much less activate any site.

Even if the site is activated, and the missiles are deployed without a Russian attack, the American-NATO approach to this system does not appear to effectively address Russian's concerns about compliance. Technically, it is not a simple issue of "confirming" anything as a weapon can be fabricated, as evidenced by the Russian inflatable subs designed to make NATO believe the Russian sub was still in port, while it was really far from home.

Unacceptable NATO Foothold

Russia views the personnel used (whether they are contractors or military) is secondary to the core concern: Once a small number of personnel or weapon systems are established, NATO could increase the numbers in one site, then expand the number of sites along Russia's European and Central Asian borders.

Intrusive Camel's Nose "Such a small number is most useful as favor to contractors building it, to Poland for its support for Bush (hard cash coming in), and an intended insult to Russia."

Iran is an interesting issue: Despite no evidedence Iran is developing a nuclear weapon, there's the myth that this system will counter-act Iranian missiles. Even if NATO were to counteract, with this system, the Iranians, NATO appears to not comprehend the Russian intention of defending Iran.

No Iranian Nuclear Weapons "It is close to useless for even a single Iranian or Russian ICBM."

If the system is "useless" as a defensive system, it would be reasonable to consider the Russian conclusion: It's an offensive-combat-support system.

It's incorrect to begin to (implicitly) point to the speculative Iranian "mushroom" cloud, especially given there is no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program.

Iran appears to be a red herring: A convenient excuse NATO attempted to use to justify deploying a system in Europe. That makes no sense. Why not base the system within an American ally along Russia's southern border? The only reasonable answer, in Russia's view, is that the intended objective of the European-based missile shield is to confront Russia, not Iran.

This appears to assume Iran would act alone; and have no active support from other Russian-Chinese-friendly allies to jointly launch missiles:

"Iran would never simply launch a single missile, only to be utterly destroyed, so the defense is moot."

It's not certain that Iran, even if it were to attack a NATO-ally (under what conditions?) that Iran would be destroyed (by whom; and what consequences to that attacking country?).

Iran has allies, and the US approach to Iraq shows that the US is not able to completely destroy, but ignore a country's resolve.

This ignores the conventional aspect of Russia's concerns:

"Ditto Russia. The difference is Russia would launch a crapload of missiles, so the defense is still meaningless."

NATO At Risk of Collapsing

Things are not going well for NATO in Afghanistan. This needs to consider the issue from the perspective of NATO's defensive requirements for Europe:

"But even this is not an issue, since Russia would not invite its own destruction."

NATO, by ignoring Russia and deploying the missile shield, could be argued to be inviting its own destruction. In the Russian view, NATO is not about defense, but seeking, in the Russian view, a pretext -- as it did through Georgia -- of provoking Russia. That is not a defensive posture, but one that is bullying, confrontational, and hardly evidence of a "Post" cold war.

Russian Action in Georgia

Russia's actions in Georgia shows the Russians have moved beyond the insults, and are using their power to confront the President, Congress, and NATO:

"So it's an elaborate game of insults, and everyone hopes to get what they want without drawing swords, or worse, using them. Really pisses me off. Poland is not the only place for this Potemkin defense. It is just the most insulting."

Issues Americans, NATO, Russia Need to Resolve

Russia doesn't believe NATO is serious about resolving anything, but preparing for a confrontation with Russia. Except for missiles in Turkey, ground launched cruise missiles, and naval-based missiles, Russia during the Cold War didn't have to contend with a similar weapon system in Europe.

A few issues the Americans have not adequately addressed in public:

A. It seems odd, in the Russian view, that, despite the victory of the Cold war, NATO wants to deploy this potential offensive weapon-support system.

- What's changed to justify supporting this system as opposed to going back to the Cold War;

B. The timetable appears artificially driven, as was the case with the Iraq invasion.

- What's the urgency of deploying this system on the given timetable;

C. NATO-America, as with PNAC-Iraq, appears to have made a decision, and plans to achieve the outcome regardless its prudence or folly.

- Why is the United States not willing to accommodate the Russian security interests;

D. NATO combat forces are stretched:

- Despite the NATO setbacks in Afghanistan, what credible deterrent does NATO have for Europe;

E. NATO, in Russia's view, was surprised by the Russian neutralization of the Georgian command and control, suggesting NATO may have unrealistic assumptions about the equipment its NATO allies. It does not seem likely that NATO would hold more advanced systems in reserve and not fully use them in Afghanistan.

F. Russia is emboldened from Georgia's military defeat, and speedy command and control implosion:

- Why should anyone believe the former-USSR satellite states will have more modern command and control systems than the Russians neutralized in Georgia;

G. The Americans do not appear to be trustworthy. The American President detests the rule of law, international obligations under Geneva, and written agreements he had with the American public on FISA.

- What assurances can NATO-America provide despite the demonstrated defiance to written agreements?

H. If Iran were a real threat, as NATO says, NATO has not convinced Russia that NATO has developed a reasonable plan to engage with Iran.

- Why isn't this system being jointly deployed by NATO-Russia long the border with Iran;

I. NATO forces depend on American support, but the United States is stretched into Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite 9-11, the President is distracted in Iraq. A confrontation in Europe will complicate the NATO mission in Afghanistan.

- How does the United States, without a military draft, propose to provide defensive support to NATO in Europe while still deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan;

- If there are reserve NATO forces available to defend Europe, why weren't those reserves called immediately after 9-11 to swiftly resolve the issues in Afghanistan?

avatar

We do really need to take a deep breath ,and better understand the gravity of our current affairs with Russia - the analogy of "Warsaw Pact missiles in Mexico " is a very good analogy.
Further Russia was fully prepared to help us fight the extremist Islamist in all the 'stans' - but not only did we rebuff those efforts - we actively sought to undermine all Russian interest in what in effect is their Central America.
Taken in the full context of the last eight years of lies,and double speak gwb43 has engaged in with the Russians - Putin is fed up with bushcheney -and will do what he believes is in the best interest of Russia- including armed conflict with the West.
This is very , very unfortunate because the real enemy is Usama bin Laden is still in the field -- is still a threat to the civilized world .

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