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Today, I'm a South Ossetian, a Tibetan, a Taiwanese
Let me be clear, in response to this. I'm not a self-serving and reckless Georgian, imposing my will on others who strive for self-determination and independence, by attacking those in the independent and Christian South Ossetia.
So, no John McCain, I'M NOT a Georgian. I'm a South Ossetian, a Tibetan, a Taiwanese, a Kurd, a Karen, a Shan, and a member of all other groups who wish to seek self-determination, autonomy, or independence from servitude to larger and not-so-benevolent powers.
Sure, Russia has over-reacted in their defense of their interests and those of the Ossetians (and flexing their muscle for all to see). But that doesn't mean that the Georgians are the only victims. You reap what you sow, and the reckless Georgian leaders miscalculated and were the first to sow the violence this month. But what really should be looked at is how much was Georgia's action done with the knowledge and encouragement of McCain's paid Georgian government agent. It would be interesting to know especially if it has anything to do with McCain or his advisors putting their own self interest over that of the country's.
What is certain, however, is that many are trying to take political advantage of the current situation. And I thought partisanship ended at our shores.
Comments (12)
Nice post.
The GOP-MSM hacks/shills won't let this message get out though. It's time to rachet up the warmongering to help angry hothead McCain.
August 13, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was great to see the Russian and Georgian Olympians embracing the other night. I'm sure there are many good people in Georgia, just as there are many good people in the US being led astray by our reckless government.
August 13, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it was Churchill who said that history tends generally to repeat itself, but never exactly the same way twice in its details ("Otherwise, our task would be too simple").
I think we should keep this in mind every time someone thinks they see a new Hitler, or a new Stalin, or a new Cold War. Not only are the personalities vastly different, but the world conditions that allowed these unique historical pariahs to thrive, and these unique historical events to take place, are also vastly different.
To be on guard is wise. To see a goblin behind every bush is paranoid. The practical nature of real threats is cheapened and obscured by too-facile comparisons to the worst of the worst in every troublesome matter.
August 13, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's tempting to leap into the fray here, but maybe we should all hold back a bit. Putin is not Lincoln. No doubt there is some blame to go around in the Georgian conflict, but a knee-jerk reaction here is not helpful (i.e McCain supports Georgia, therefore Georgia must be wrong. Bush is sending aid, therefore aid must be wrong).
We've all been driven 'round the bend by the reckless, feckless Bush Administration which is a disaster area. But there are issues out there in the wide world that are not 100% centered on who's up or down a point or two in mid-August polls.
It appears the Soviet Union may be back. Not good news, not good news at all, especially at a time when the US is exhausted by the misbegotten war in Iraq.
August 13, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
..... upon reading all the press alluding to the fact that it was the United States and their goading of Russia into Afghanistan that eventually broke the Soviet Empire isn't it aren't the current heads of state, if they have any pride at all in their nation juss seething waiting for an opportunity to turn things around to us? We're absolutely powerless because we're busy playing whack a mole while Russia is gearing up waiting to pounce. I believe they have made contact and struck. I await our most feeble response. What an interesting time this will turn out to be.
August 13, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I'm getting a little tired of the all deep thinkers out there who say that the Georgians should get whatever's coming to them. These are the same people who like to remind us of how cruel we've been to American Indians, and use that deplorable term, "Native American," because they're too lazy to find out which of the specific 1000 or so tribal groups they're talking about in any given moment.
Yeah, the White Man stole the lands from the many tribes and continue to treat them as dirt, or museum pieces. But do you really not know the history of the Iroquois, the Navajo, the Apache, the Lenape, The Mi-Wuk... all the rest. It's always been the mighty taking from the weak.
And we have deplored it because it's wrong. Even while we bask in the luxury of being American.
The term "Native American" came from ass-dragging white bureaucrats, who wanted a convenient way to save them reams of paperwork, by grouping all those aforementioned tribal group together. Now the heart-renders among us try to assuage their own sense of White guilt by labeling all the tribes in a... wait for it... politically-conscious way.
So when I hear these same people accusing Georgians of crimes against humanity, it makes me think of the lousy way we treat American Indians, and the lousy way we pretend that we still don't treat them. It makes me think that, man, there’s a bunch of hypocrites in America.
Number one, you can't bemoan the fate of the American Indian on one hand, which includes a large number of warring tribes who simply all got defeated by the superior firepower of the whites - and at the same time tell me that the Georgians deserve it. And number two, the citizenry are not responsible for the crimes of their leaders.
Or have we all forgotten how much we despise George W. Bush? Have we forgotten how the Chinese people flourished in the Olympic Opening Ceremonies when their draconian government finally gave them a chance?
What Putin and Russia did was wrong, plain and simple. Or should I remind us all of another history lesson? This one courtesy of an English cap named Neville Chamberlain.
August 13, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I fail to see what you're talking about concerning Native Americans in relation to my post. But I do have a similar distaste to the 'whiner' culture in America.
All the groups mentioned are in 21st century struggles for independence or autonomy. As I mentioned, the Russians have over-reacted but their response is hardly surprising. Do Iraqi's follow closely to military convoys when they know it will get them killed? If you are a leader of a small country, dwarfed by your neighbors and with limited numbers of troops do you attack the allies of that neighbor? You should read more of the criticism that Georgians have of their own leadership.
The Georgians have always had carrots and sticks with which to approach all the separtist regions in their country. The Russians have been gradually withdrawing from these areas in recent years. But, for whatever reason, the Georgian leadership made a stupid move to invade territory which they have never successfully controlled in the short 17 year history of that country. It is also quite interesting they chose this particular time to do it. Surely they had to expect retribution. You can see how the build-up of their provocations has run its course in my other post:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/the-misunderstood-scheunemann.php
I have no proof, but I do have suspicion that the regular contact Georgia's president has had with Scheunemann (and McCain) may have given him a feeling of having more U.S. backing than was actually the case.
You can contrast this with the situation in Taiwan where the U.S. has continually discouraged Taiwan's leaders from taking any provocative action. Even the hardliners on China were wary of the Taiwanese making rash moves (under their previous president).
I really don't see how McCain sees this in our interest to involve America so intimately in what has been a on-again, off-again 17-year multi-ethnic civil war in Georgia. I sense he is using simplistic logic (1 + 1 = 2) when the internal politics of Georgia and added Russian dynamic requires advanced calculus.
Of course, I have not seen anyone analyze Scheunemann's client affiliations from his other 2 lobbying firms alongside his Georgian interests. There may be some interesting overlay that relates to a particular commodity that has risen dramatically in price lately.
August 14, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
nice post. on target. by the way, Obama's response has been the usual warmed over, un-insightful, Washington insider crap that we can get for the same price from the Republicans. At some point I had hoped that Obama was going to be more different than the cautious, do-nothing he and his campaign have morphed into.
August 13, 2008 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
@PA guy:
"but maybe we should all hold back a bit. Putin is not Lincoln. No doubt there is some blame to go around in the Georgian conflict, but a knee-jerk reaction here is not helpful (i.e McCain supports Georgia, therefore Georgia must be wrong. Bush is sending aid, therefore aid must be wrong)."
yes knee jerk reactions ought to be held back some. That is why the entire foreign policy establishment from McCain to Obama have taken such a balanced and nuanced position in this delicate matter.
August 13, 2008 10:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree partly, della Rovere. Not that I take every comment in the blogosphere to be important, but, as a progressive, I'm concerned about fellow progessives who are trying (too hard) to fit the Russia/Georgia issue into either the Iraq/Vietnam box or the Cheney-is-a-warmonger box. Both are good boxes, but this may not fit into them.
Paradoxically, they seem to be making the same mistake the right makes when it tries to make one thing (Saddam Hussein) into another (the Taliban).
This could all prove to be a transient flexing of Russian muscles (not to downgrade the individual suffering that results). Or it could turn out that the Cold War is not over. It just took a 17 year or so sabbatical. Or maybe it will be something else altogether. Let's just step back a bit and not spin it so hard.
August 14, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have been reading comments from blood-thirsty bloggers, assuring us that Georgians need to die. I have another name for such posters, but printing it would violate the terms of TPM. So much for the principles of the politically high-minded.
August 13, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I feel very concerned that this was planned... staged somehow... I have no idea what is true and what to believe about any of this with the type of leadership we have had in this country, I put nothing past them.
August 14, 2008 3:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
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