Well amen Jan--from another old coot on this site. I used to come to this site every day, but no more...

Note that the blog page still says that "for now" you can't edit after posting.

Kind of like when your phone company or other automated phone menu says "due to unusually heavy call volume your wait time may be long", it sounds a little convenient, or just cheap.

Your criticism is based on an assumption about the quality of comments in the threads that some readers may not agree with. Personally, I don't think "conversations" add much to the quality of a post and comments. For me, the goodies are in the post and a couple of comments exchanges, not in extended conversations. I've met a couple of people here whom I enjoy corresponding with. We found a way to exchange safe email addies. I also bookmark threads I find interesting. Beyond that, I try not to obsess about what someone might be saying to me two days later.

Many of us oldtimers had hoped this site would have all of the impact it now has, which seems to me considerable, while also permitting user friendly dialogue among interested denizens. There is no limitation in currently available software out there on the market which prevented this from happening by now. And the cafe may yet become that site, some time down the road.

It may be that for the near term the die has been cast with this software and this is pretty much the way it's going to be until the software goes out of style or it becomes easier simply to switch to a new version for all the sites. That could be in a year or two, or in five years--who knows? I don't know when we're going to hear more from Josh. I don't know that there is much to say at this point. He has explained the situation and the decision many times already.

However, a few months ago it was said that there would be a tracking function installed. Anything remotely close to the previous version would have helped enormously with the problems you've identified, Jan. I've not seen status reports on that. I don't think I've been impatient or overly demanding in hoping for one every now and then. If there is still an intent to install one it would be good to hear of that intent, along with whatever management knows about likely timelines.

Just a hunch, but I would kind of doubt that Josh feels a wave of nostalgia when he thinks about earlier versions of the site. That situation, as he has said many times, was a managerial nightmare for him and was untenable for that reason. But once the software stars realign, if he has a chance to switch in a way he thinks will retain the good features of current site while also addressing the user-friendly denizen exchange issues, I wouldn't be surprised if he does that. Unless he decides that too many of us old foggies are ungrateful whiners who aren't worth trying to please.

But the current situation seems to me a classic illustration of the notion of path dependency. Once decisions on the software to be used for other parts of the site were made, moving to that same software for the cafe took on a logic of its own from the point of view of the person paying the bills. As with any group hoping to influence the decisions of the decisionmaker, those of us who are hoping for something better down the road need to both help identify realistic solutions at such time, and if, our suggestions are invited. And--we must leave the proprietor feeling as though he would at some point want to implement one of those realistic solutions--that doing so wouldn't likely lead to more aggravation from a seemingly impossible-to-please group than is worth it.

As it is I don't have even a gut feeling of any sort on whether Josh is privately more pleased than not with the changes and where the site is at this point. It must surely be a great deal less aggravation, and he doesn't need aggravation on top of all that he's already taken on.

Thank you for this. I was pondering making a post about this very issue. It's quite frustrating for me. I post in a lot of blogs sometimes, and I always like to go back to them and see if I got responded to... But I can't. I know other sites that have full archives of your comments, or at LEAST archives of your last, say, 500 comments. I would be at least happy with something like that. But we get nothing. Our last, what, ten comments?

Anyway, if I continue I'll just repeat a lot of the stuff you already brought up.

But thank you! It really needed to be said.

Might as well just cut and paste my blog post (which still is not up...)written before reading Jan's, and perhaps the frst to mention "moderation"

TPM cAFE:tHROTTLING DIALOG AT EVERY TURN...
By jollyroger - August 12, 2008, 6:55PM
Not content with transforming relatively functional (if admittedly slow) forum interface into a lumbering travesty that makes it impossible even to track ones own posts back more than a few days, the stalwarts at TOM Central, apparently, have imposed a "moderation" delay.

Hint to Josh:Hire more moderators, or drop the program.

I do note with some satisfaction that we no longer are treated to responses to this sort of complaint; the sensation of smoke passing up the anus is always disquieting.

Appologies in advance for typos--there is, of course, no more "preview" function.

I remember the old system fondly. This new setup seems to just be designed to emulate crappy news sites where comments are essentially drive-by afterthoughts and don't contribute meaningfully to readers' comprehension of the subject at hand.

The old site was a genuine discussion area.

Hello Tom, long time no read. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Jan's on target here. I think that this TPM itself began with a less ambitious agenda than it has now, and like many business owners who may have 'liked the idea' of growth and diversification after some successes, I don't think there has been a real commitment because it just isn't lucrative enough for the work involved without lots of upfront financing, connections and clout.

Huffington is the upline of highly profitable political blog sites and I'd say this one is in the downline. There's much more to how they make money there, and the lady was a celeb plus syndicated columnist plus former candidate before her startup ... she was plugged into all the right places at the same time. She was making a boatload of money before the Post. So difficulty in being a blogger or commenter there is more about bad ol elitism than it is here I think, although it could be at work here and I don't know it.

Josh went into this apparently without first having a big name, then due to hard working journalism got a name, but it is journalism to journalism...even a Polk Award won't get you rich unless you get a much wider mainstream following. I don't know him that well, but it seems Josh is more of a journalist and less interested in media empire building. I could be wrong. I welcome people who have more info to correct me on this.

For that, momentum from the begining, and monetary leverage to reach and expand and hire out for all your needs is a big deal.

p.s. Here's a fun one to aggravate Tom Wright :-)

Guys, I know things are frustrating as we work through the kinks, but have some patience! We're figuring out the reply button and the cookies, don't just up a leave.

It's early yet. Help me to make it better.

Posted by Andrew Golis, February 6, 2008 12:23 PM in reply to Tom Wright's The End of Conversation

specifics

herewith the offending post, (edited to avoid moderation)

respondispecifics ng to the Michelle Bachman story, specificall

"demonizing Light Rail?

Light Rail is "The Defil's Trolly" In my own peaceful town of San Francisco, they put in a light ril line a few years ago and *now everyone's f###### in the streets.

*(What's that? They were? Oh well, never mind then.)

No exactly profound, I'll grant you, but far less offensive than most of my posts.