« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »
Joe Biden Will Be A Nightmare for John McCain and GOP
For months the GOP thought that Hillary Clinton would give them the most trouble as their 2008 Democratic presidential rival. That was before Barack Obama outperformed everyone's expectations and proceeded to win the Democratic nomination instead. Suddenly, the GOP came to the realization that Obama was really the most formidable opponent and that Hillary was the easier prey. The Clinton dynasty had been weakened and the GOP smelled red meat. They now wanted Hillary to stay in the mix. So they activated a plan to instigate Hillary into the number two spot on the Democratic ticket as the VP. Why not? They could still run the same campaign ads that they produced months ago in anticipation of Clinton being the nominee.
In the meantime, they decided to follow Karl Rove's advice to redefine Obama and makeover John McCain. So the GOP promoted the Clinton storyline of Obama not appealing to working class white voters. Obama is an elitist. Obama is weak on foreign policy. Obama makes great speeches, but they are only empty words. Atack, attack, attack. Poke your finger in Obama's chest and dare him to fight back because it would violate his personal oath to run a civil campaign. Gleefully bait Obama to respond forcefully, because then you could proclaim that "he is no different from the rest of us." This is one instance where being the same has its benefits.
However, true to form the GOP miscalculated. They violated a basic tactic of war. Never back your opponent into a corner without giving them an escape route. Because with no way out, the cornered tend to fight back with more tenacity. Or they call for backup. Well,Barack Obama chose both options. As John McCain said, Obama became "testy" and he also placed a call for backup to his colleague, Joe Biden. You know Biden's reputation. Salt of the earth. Strong with working class Americans, strong with Catholics, strong with foreign policy and who loved a good fight. And unlike Obama, Biden possessed no handicap to play nice. Biden has more than enough gut punches to go around and like Donna Brazile tearing into a GOP pundit, he won't hesitate to use them.
The GOP must be thinking that they can't catch a cold. "Curses, foiled again!". What's a body to do. Maybe they will take the advice of the "brilliant" GOP talking head who recommended that McCain ignore Biden and keep hammering away at Obama. You know, as in close your eyes and pretend that Biden isn't really there and maybe he will go away. After witnessing Joe Biden in action today, somehow I don't think that strategy will have much success.
Comments (50)
Rec'd -- and particularly love your last sentence!!!
August 24, 2008 5:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gotta love the energy. Biden ran on stage!
August 24, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I liked the stage run, too. Just like the talking heads said, if it was anyone else that would have looked contrived. Biden pulled it off.
Both these guys are likable - which I think is why both Clinton and Reagan were BOTH popular Presidents even though they were on opposite ends of the polical spectrum.
McBush is a little more likable than the present President Bush, but not by much.
I think it is true that the MSM has given McBush a pass so far on the many gaffes and outright lies that have come out of his mouth lately, but I think the "house gaffe" is blood in the water the MSM sharks will not be able to resist.
It's feeding frenzy time.
August 24, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ya think?
If Mittens is the VP, this is gonna be fun:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x87/handycapt/080101super_mitt_romney.jpg?t=1219593251
August 24, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its reasonable that many democrats had/have misgivings about Biden being the running mate.
But I really confidently predict he's going to make believers out of all of us. He is one of the very best we have for this campaign environment.
Biden will crush Mitt in a debate. He will have more trouble with Huck but can switch gears and get into the "folks" grass with him also.
He is best working crowds and visiting diners and union halls, small venues. He's got enormous skills in the one-on-one and were I the campaign management team, I would put him into as many small venues as I could book him, while at the same time getting him airtime on the big Sunday shows, Larry, Oprah, etc. etc.
He is a jewel and we are lucky he's on our side and not the opposition's.
August 24, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
In Springfield yesterday, Joe Biden accidentally called Obama "Barack America," which kind of fits perfectly into your little daydream.
Biden won't be a nightmare for Republicans. He's a gift.
August 24, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
That remains to be seen. I'll stick with the nightmare analogy for now because it's more accurate. According to Nancy Pelosi, "Biden is the full package." Joe Biden is the one person that John McCain would have loved to have had as a running mate. Chuck Hagel and Richard Luger liked the pick too.
August 24, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well of course Pelosi, Hagel, and Luger like Biden. I don't care what those 3 people think.
August 24, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please, Blow. Tell us what you care about. We're all waiting with baite breath, because all we know so far is everything you hate.
August 24, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, you don't know what I hate, CVille Dem.
That's because you confuse criticism with hate, maybe because you're Southern. My experience is that some Southerners hate criticism.
But for me, there's a difference between criticism and hatred. I hate rutabagas. I hate turnips. I don't hate Joe Biden or Barack Obama. In fact, I generally like Joe Biden—when he's liberal. I don't like Joe Biden when he's conservative. So, I don't like the idea of partitioning Iraq, even though I expect it to happen eventually. And I don't like when Joe Biden says his wife is drop-dead gorgeous during his VP acceptance speech in Springfield. I think it's inappropriate. But I'm a critical, cranky Yankee. Being critical, however, doesn't mean I won't vote Democratic.
As for this post, I think Bussta Brown's imagining what is going through the minds of the GOP is just silly. But I don't hate it.
August 24, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee. You never answered my question -- you know, the one about what you care about.
If this is criticism ...
...it certainly isn't very inciteful. You're right. Hate was the wrong word. A more accurate way for me to ask you would be to just tell us if there is anything positive you care to share, rather than your constantly negative carping -- that is all you do. I'll bet people just love to see you show up at the water cooler!
Here's an example. When many of us were looking at the positive ways Biden could help round out Obama's ticket, you nitpick this little gem:
If you have ever made a positive contribution, please educate me.
August 24, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought your question about what I care about was completely sarcastic, not genuine, so I didn't answer it. I still think it's sarcastic (please re-read your first sentence), but I'll answer you anyway: I care whether the Democrats win in November.
FYI, I was originally making a fairly mild statement: I think Joe Biden is not a nightmare for McCain and the GOP.
By citing Biden's "Barack America" misstatement, I meant to remind Bussta Brown of Biden's famous tendency to misspeak. It's not just my opinion that he's a gaffe machine.
But I personally think "Barack America" is a funny misstatement, because it sounds like a comic book hero's name, and I thought that fit perfectly with Bussta Brown's fantasizing. I was poking fun more than anything.
Because Bussta Brown countered my comment with Pelosi's, Hagel's, and Lugar's opinions, however, I then responded to his comment. Since I don't happen to respect any of those three politicians, their opinions do not impress me. I didn't elaborate about why I don't care what they think because it's off-topic.
I don't know how to "educate you" about whether I have EVER made a "positive contribution." Since you are always so sarcastic and negative with me, I don't have any idea what would count as positive to your mind. Just being honest.
August 24, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you care that the Democrats win in Nvember, then why do you constantly throw in negative comments about the person who will represent the party in the election? There will never be a nominee who is perfect in anyone's mind, but you seem to search for the smallest flaw in the fabric and pick away at it just for the fun of it. Why not look for a positive spin? That is not to say that constructive criticism isn't appropriate, but everything you say IS criticism, and it isn't constructive, because it does not ever (that I have seen) provide a positive alternative.
Being resentful about Hillary is not constructive; she lost and we have to move forward. Who would you want to see as VP and why? Do you not see that Biden at least gives McCain a headache? He deflates many of McCain's criticisms and is one of the few people who can get away with saying truthful negatives about the POW because he is on his level. Biden has frustrated the hell out of me over the years; he often says pithy, and intelligent things about an issue and then votes the opposite way (ie Clarence Thomas) but this is 2008 and I think he gives Obama a good balance for the ticket.
Your posts frustrate me because they seem peevish and churlish without any way to please you. If the answer to my question is simply that you want to see a Dem in the Whitehouse, then why not join up and give the good as well as the bad. If you really see it as all bad, then are you sure that what you say you want is really what you want?
Sometimes people just want to be a negative force. (YOur name kinda sounds like it) I hope you will make the effort to see the other side of things. It would do you good.
August 24, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not trying to frustrate you, CVille, but I somehow manage to push your buttons even when I'm not speaking directly to you.
It's always been this way between us. I must remind you of someone. I have no idea why you always react to me, but you do.
It's clear you've missed some of my Mother Teresa moments, however. Occasionally, I've even made some jokes. So I'm sorry to say you're just plain wrong that I'm 100% negative.
You may have pushed my own buttons in the past, but you don't anymore. Maybe I have moved on.
Obviously I had wanted Hillary to be on the ticket, but now we know she's not on it. However, we only just learned that news YESTERDAY. Yet you expect me to be onboard with Biden TODAY. Sorry, but you are just going to have to be patient with some of us SLOWPOKES. It's been what, 30 hours or so?
I truly don't care if you don't like how long it takes. I think you are being unreasonable.
Here's the difference between us: I thought Hillary was the superior candidate for president.
Shockingly, there is not one person on this whole website who has ever changed my mind about that. I haven't even wavered. Not in 8 solid months of reading this site has anyone managed to convince me that Obama is the best thing since sliced bread! What can I say, CVille? Maybe that's a failing on your part, not mine.
I've wanted to like Obama, but he's too damn conservative for me. I said this many times during the primaries and was ridiculed and told Obama was the most liberal senator in the Senate. "Bunk," I said. Then after Hillary dropped out, Obama made it crystal-clear to the rest of you how far to the right he is. Surprise!
Obama is a hawk, and it makes me sick to my stomach that he chose a hawk for a running mate, even though I knew he would. Frankly, I'm GRATEFUL that he didn't choose a Republican as his running mate. To me, that's a positive!
However, I hate that Biden is lying about Russia and Georgia. I hate that Biden wants to partition Iraq. I hate that Obama calls wars "smart" or "dumb." Don't these things bother you, CVille?
Well, they bother me to my core. I can't help it; I'm hardwired this way. Maybe I'm just more liberal than you are. I've been a liberal since I was a little kid: I always wanted to be the Indian when we played Cowboys & Indians. I had more empathy for them.
If I could have picked Obama's VP, I would have picked Dennis Kucinich. Someone to balance Obama's conservative tendencies.
August 24, 2008 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
O nice - way to through an ad hominem in there and look for all the world like butter won't melt in your mouth.
You must be a goddamn east coast elitist liberal asshole - they are so very quick to jump southerners.
Now who is on the receiving end?
August 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
through - should have been throw.
August 24, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, Tena, it's not a personal attack. My experience from actually living in Virginia is that some Southerners find Yankee speech patterns offensive and harsh. They can't help it, and neither can I.
August 24, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ready, A little imagination is a good thing if channeled correctly. The nightmare is real and the GOP is definitely nervous. The imagination is the GOP spin that Hillary was dissed.
August 24, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's split the difference, Bussta: You do what you need to do to survive, and I'll do what I need to.
Me? I'm choosing real life over a fantasy world when it comes to Republicans, because they always manage to win elections even when I think they can't possibly pull it off.
August 24, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ready, real life is subjective. Nightmare, now that's an objective assessment.
August 24, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eye roll.
I'm saving this thread, Bussta, for when Biden makes his first massive gaffe. I give him 3 weeks. That'll take us to Sept 14. :-)
August 24, 2008 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
You and the MSM will be waiting. But a gaffe is in the eye of the beholder and spin jocks. Personally, I like Biden's gunslinger style. He's the real maverick.
August 25, 2008 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"And I don't like when Joe Biden says his wife is drop-dead gorgeous during his VP acceptance speech in Springfield. I think it's inappropriate."
Ready, I think Biden's wife appreciated it and that's what matters most. Tim Kaine said that his wife told him after he missed the VP cut that he had already been elected to the top job in the land when he became her husband.
So it's great to get the support that really matters.
August 24, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm happy for them. Enough already!
August 24, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, if Biden had accidentally said "Barack Cryptomuslimtchurian" or something, you might have a point. As it is, not so much.
August 24, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please don't be so tediously literal, roo_P. Some day Biden will say something like that.
The point is not what he said but that it's clearly going to be impossible for him not to make gaffes.
August 24, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is impossible for anyone to not misspeak at one turn or another.
If you are very concerned about it, and I do not deny there is some cause, the best course of action is to highlight McCain's verbal jumbling (in addition to his regularly scheduled double talk.)
August 24, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think I'm "concerned" about Biden, I just wouldn't call him a "nightmare" for McCain and the GOP. "Nightmare" is overstating it.
Biden is like a fast-ball pitcher who doesn't have perfect control. Exciting but a little nerve-racking to watch because he sometimes throws a wild pitch.
August 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Impossible for most people. Biden will do just fine.
August 24, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
"They violated a basic tactic of war. Never back your opponent into a corner without giving them an escape route. "
Actually, that is the SECOND basic tactic of war. This is the first:
“You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never to get involved in a land war in Asia. And only slightly less well known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!”
August 24, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the education. :)
August 24, 2008 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
As for Biden, he might be given a pass by the media for his gaffes. They're a well-known part of his persona. Plus he's able to laugh at himself -- doesn't take himself too seriously. That can neutralize a gaffe on the spot.
I perceive a brightness, humor, and optimism in the Obama-Biden campaign that I haven't observed in any other. Nice change from the weightiness and tension of past campaigns. Hope it lasts!
August 24, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're welcome. I think Biden was the best pick although I liked Tim Kaine too. But you can imagine what that GOP 3a.m. ad would have looked like.
August 24, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok ok - I fought against the idea of Biden as veep really hard. Then I was resigned to it, when Obama chose him.
I started warming up to him yesterday, and now I am totally convinced that Obama did exactly the right thing.
Go Biden! I take it all back - now get on your game and stay on it!
August 24, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
TenaX,
Your on my "short list" of must reads along with ChronoSpark. I've already made the mistake of naming names as there are so many others but appreciate your point of view insanely on point comments... when I received the three am page, I immediatly thought of you as your were clearly hoping for another choice.
From three until 5 am I searched Google for Biden links even though I was familiar with him from his Judiciary Cmttee work. My head was spinning with the different choices but like you feel great about our ticket and have doubled my time at the local office making calls...
Glad to see you "still strong in the game"
Regards to all
August 25, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am? Wow. I feel honored.
August 25, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, Really, the honor is mine...
Keep up the good work.
August 25, 2008 1:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. I will. =)
August 25, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Biden is the man.
August 24, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a great analysis. Spot-on! It truly is.
I agree with Tena above. Biden was not my first pick, but after analyzing him, thinking about him and his penchant for telling it like it is and holding the Republicans accountable, I have grown very excited.
I don't think John McCain wants someone like Biden to have the kind of coverage he's going to get now, when he calls him out for his laundry list of shit.
August 24, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks CS. I'm excited too because you can't take time off against the Repubs. Biden is just the fireplug that was needed. I like his ready aim fire style. But watch out for the media. They spin as much as the McCain surrogates.
August 24, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like hearing about things like Tim Pawlenty saying that whoever McCain picks will be able to take on Biden. The fact that it's even an issue is a good thing.
If Biden was a bad choice, the Republicans would shrug him off, not go on an all-out attack against him like they're obviously beginning to.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/24/pawlenty-mccain-vp-can-handle-biden/
August 24, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wanted Biden, from the day he dropped out after Iowa, but I was thinking more about integrity, foreign affairs expertise, and his winning personality. I'd really forgot about his very effective bull dog ability and didn't actually know a great deal about blue collar connections and popularity. So even a supporter of this ticket is pleasantly (hopefully!) impressed.
Liked the interaction between them -- not super comfortable yet but clear mutual respect, and both are positive, optimistic, and very strong people. (If it's Romney, the contrast will be marked.) It was also different from the feeling of the Kerry/Edwards announcement, which was charming but (sadly, as often the case with Edwards in retrospect at least) sort of story-book or something. Not real life. I remember feeling less excited than I had thought I would after that day.
Couple of stray thoughts:
-- If Biden is unfairly attacked, I honestly think we might see the bulldog in Obama! He (BHO) strikes me as one of those people who is not best at defending themselves but who can be a fierce fighter in defense of others when he truly believes they've been wronged. (I know there are the 'under the bus' examples that would argue against that, but every one except Clark made absolute sense to me. I don't understand about Clark - the abandonment by Obama and his not being at the convention.)
-- Biden's status as someone who has *more* of the qualities HRC represented, someone who has been a true friend to her, and someone who early on (it was pretty clear) expected her to be the nominee has to help. The hard core of her angry supporters (who may have decided to support her, in fact, because of gender-based hostility and resentment) aren't going to change no matter what. (Heck, they *are* more like McCain .. as well as those Japanese solidiers who never accepted that WWII ended.)
-- If - no *when* - they trot out Rev. Wright, Biden could be invaluable at exposing that attack for what it is. Same with Rezko, Ayres. Biden, but not Obama, can (with regret) bring up the Keating Five and other unsavory associates of McCain's. Actually, that's a really DUMB attack for them to start. HRC could get away with it, because of Obama's unwillingness to poke around in her family's dirty linen ... but now there is someone who's got his back.
-- I've heard (well, read) that Jill Biden is a big asset also. Look forward to seeing an interview with her.
And then on the down side. If I thought I was heart-broken in 2004, if these guys lose it's simply going to be devastating. I don't want to even think about the disgust and depresssion ..... SO ..... between now and Nov. 4th I'm going to do everything I can to avoid having to deal with that!! I hope we all will.
August 24, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Imagine my red pom poms swinging! Great comment!
August 24, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
We don't realize just how happy and excited Biden is to be VP. This was his last shot. He actually psyched himself OUT of getting the nod, as to not get his hopes up. He is fired up and ready to tear McBush a new one. I can't wait for this final stretch, it will be something to watch.
August 24, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check this out. Emjoy!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/watch-the-ad-on-the-econo_b_120934.html
August 24, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nightmare is too strong a word. The only nightmare people have is how someone will act once they reach office. Dick Cheney after all was never a nightmare because he was a campaign asset.
I also think the "working class" and "white people" rural street cred he somehow has (except for his state and parts of Pennsylvania) is just positive spin. This is the same man, after all, whose style of speaking only a year ago was accused of being "out of touch" and sounding more like a college professor than a presidential candidate (as if Obama needed any more of that).
The only thing Biden brings to the ticket, politically, is experience. However, for people like me that don't give a damn about the presidential horse rate calucations that change from moment anyway, he makes perfect sense. A vice presidential candidate should be judged on how he can help govern and take office in case something happens to the president, not just how he can help win. I don't like Biden's partition plan for Iraq, and I don't like a lot of his other foreign policy ideas, but he's a man of judgment, tireless policy prescriptions, and faith in the rule of law, which is what our country needs right now.
The dream pick for Republicans would have been Hillary Clinton. That's why they're all bitter about it now.
August 24, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The dream pick for Republicans would have been Hillary Clinton. That's why they're all bitter about it now."
That's so true. Add Wolf Blitzer to that list also. He's been the chief media cheerleader for Hillary for months and now he's going through withdrawal. I used to like his reporting, but now he's trying to fabricate dissension. Now I just switch to MSNBC.
August 25, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just stopped taking you seriously. Wish you had said that earlier.
August 25, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
ahh "presidential horse rate" should be "presidential horse race"
I don't think (these days at least) any presidential candidates get a discount on buying horses.
August 24, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Post a Comment