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Honor In The Dark
I came across this old commencement address given by Senator John McCain to the 1996 graduating class at Ohio Wesleyan University.
I have always thought that even the most hard-bitten, cynical politicians give voice to their deepest idealism and views of the Good when addressing commencements. Far more than States of the Union, platform speeches, or addresses to the AEI and Heritage Institutes of the world, commencement addresses bring out the best in our representatives.
So I looked at this address and found some interesting things. One, McCain is not someone we should lightly belittle and try to shame. He is a serious man with an idealism similar to many of us. Two, McCain has a religious side that may be deeper than I thought. The word "sin" shows up repeatedly, but perhaps he was catering to a percieved audience's beliefs.
What was most poignant was the mention of honor:
" I have made many mistakes in my life. I will make others. But I have not been completely undone by my failures. That is because I was once or twice, some years ago now, confronted with very hard choices. And I chose well. That I did is a tribute to my parents and the traditions they delivered me into, and a tribute to the men with whom I served far more than it is a testament to my virtue.
Their influence taught me to dread dishonor. And later in life when I was in a tough spot, I realized that anything was easier to bear than dishonor. Even if my sin was unknown to those I loved, it would have glared at me. I would be dishonored in my eyes . . . in my eyes. I would have been dishonored in the dark.
As I look at you, as I envy your youth and the experiences that will be yours and not mine, I know that your character is still being formed. We are all incomplete. I think we all die with our character not exactly what it could have been. But perfection was never the possession of human beings.
In his poem, "The Old Men Admiring Themselves in the Water," Yeats wrote this verse:
"I hear the old, old men say
"All that's beautiful drifts away
"Like the waters."
Although I am, happily, not yet stuck with the appellation "old, old man," I grow closer to that rank than to my much enjoyed and terribly misspent youth. And I take Yeat's point. Like most people of my age, I feel a longing for what is lost and cannot be restored. But if the happy pursuits and casual beauty of youth prove ephemeral, something better can endure, and endure until our last moment on earth. And that is the honor we earn and the love we give if at a moment in our lives we sacrifice for something greater than self-interest.
We cannot choose the moments. They arrive unbidden by us. We can choose to let the moments pass, and avoid the difficulties they entail. But the loss we would incur by that choice is much dearer than the tribute we once paid to vanity and pleasure.
I am confident that you can and will find honor in your choices . . . when the hard choices arrive at your door. You need not go to war to find them. They will find you . . . in whatever walk of life you take. You can make them. You can find honor in them . . . honor in the dark. I know you can. I know you can."
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Read the whole speech, it is worth it to see another face to the comic book villian we are busily creating.
It can be found at Project Vote Smart
http://www.votesmart.org/speech_detail.php?sc_id=74076&keyword=&phrase=&contain=







Comments (48)
Thanks for posting this. I can't vote for McCain, and I guess you won't either, but your depth of vision here is really admirable.
August 24, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if he remembers giving this speech? And I wonder if he feels dishonored in the dark when he thinks about how he is running his campaign? Perhaps a good question for some brave reporter to ask him...
August 24, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Transcript of CNN's "McCain Revealed,"
Aired August 20, 2008
Mho: Taking the mass quantities of liberal blogosphere output on McCain without mass doses of salt to temper it, is deadly to any attempt to perceive political reality. He's not what's being depicted overall therein, that's for sure.
P.S. Ironic that Hillary is getting a lot of grief for supposedly praising McCain in the past, while netroots golden boy Russ Feingold, basically speaking to the same thing more recently, gets ignored...cognitive dissonance....can't possibly be that he respects McCain...
August 25, 2008 12:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
In case it gets separated by a lot more replies,
please see my CORRECTION to the 1st paragraph above quote, below @ 12:04 AM:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/honor-in-the-dark.php#comment-3043142
It's important for context.
I'd also like to add some quick late night "Deep Thoughts from Jack Tandy" kinda stuff on this:
Political horse race is mostly a game of distorting reality, mostly using hyperbole. That's very old, but it's also continual news to some, it seems.
What I see as new after spending a couple of years reading the political blogosphere now, is so many people wanting, desiring, to play the game of distorting reality themselves. And even stranger, lately I have come to realize that many blog posts of this type seem to be people seem to be doing it in a process of trying to convince themselves of their own spin. (Others, of course, just always wanted to be an ad man/woman, think they could do better soap commercials, too.) :-)
August 25, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't thank you enough for this, artappraiser. I never thought Russ Feingold was the greatest thing in the world, and I always thought it was fishy that he was supposedly some liberal savior. Actually seeing what he's doing now brings to light the hypocrisy of so many far-left netroots.
August 25, 2008 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think with picking favorite politicians, netroots in a way does to itself what it claims the MSM has done to the populace. They focus on on certain issues that they care about, then consider themselves "informed." Then they pick their favorites from that because the guy/gal has voted for/agin. They don't look at the whole politician. They don't follow all the many votes in Congress and the policy work, only the topics that the blogosphere is promoting, whether it be the biggie of the Iraq war or something stoopid like the censure vote Moveon.org ad about Patraeus.
For example, I've seen commenters who are violently anti-Israel also say they just adore Feingold or Dean, as if they have no realization that both are very pro-Israel. Likewise, some Deaniacs seemed to think Dean was a Gene McCarthy type peacenick and far left on economics just because he was against the Iraq war. Another example, some of the people who were always praising Lamont when he was running seemed to have no idea what his positions on many things actually were, it was just good enough for them that he wasn't Lieberman. Passionate fundy aetheists begging Al Gore to run with no apparent awareness that he was once a divinity student believes it's "freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion." Another example: back in ye olden days before he announced running for president, Obama was senator non grata with a large contingent on Daily Kos because of his actions on Justice Roberts' confirmation (not to mention I watched as several people here on TPMCafe post that Obama had lost their vote over the Donnie McClurkin thing, then after the Iowa speech all of a sudden they were big supporters of his.)
Feingold does have a very liberal voting record, but that is as defined against his own current colleagues, not as some seem to define it. I'm originally from Wisconsin and still have lots of family there and spend time there and keep up with the local news. He is not at all the same kind of liberal as say, Paul Wellstone; if he was, he wouldn't get re-elected in Wisconsin. He is re-elected because he is willing to cross the aisle and work with GOP--Wisconsin has a strong non-partisan or bi-partisan history and has long held open primaries. Some of his pet issues simply coincide with the blogosphere's pet issues.
Voting by litmus tests is a problem I don't see any evidence the blogosphere is helping to solve, just the opposite, maybe. No different from those fundy Christians who vote by litmus test over a single issue and then end up unhappy with the entire pol they end up getting who votes against what they might like on a host of other things. Hyperbole about litmus tests from both pols pandering and the blogosphere or special interest groups asking for pandering on litmus tests twists it all exponentially.
August 25, 2008 3:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Working across the isle is *exactly* Obama's point with the "not red, not blue but UNITED States" philosophy. I dig Feingold but like every politician in order to make the most difference *over time* (ie: getting re-elected) you have to compromise. What the hell is wrong with compromise?
Can't the so-called "netroots" see that if they are seriously left-wing, the rest of the country views them with the same cynicism that it does with the right-wingers?
August 25, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Cochran(R), fellow POW Phillip Butler and many others have expressed grave concerns about McCain with regard to his loss of all reason when he becomes enraged. His own mother told us that when he was a kid that he often became so enraged that he lost consciousness. In high school they called him McNasty because he fought all the time. He has a lifelong anger problem that was enhanced by PTSD. This is not hype. This is a central problem with the concept of McCain as president. When you couple this with his oft repeated emphasis on dealing with many problems by starting a war, this is real cause for concern. I don't intend to allow these very real concerns to be made into something that is just partisan hype. Between his views on Bush's policies, his eagerness for war, ("There will be many wars my friends, many wars.") and his red hot temperament, I believe McCain is dangerous to America.
August 25, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
People can have shining, honourable moments, even be reasonably good people, and then.... rot. It's that simple. Yeats & the poets, the Bible, the Greeks - they all wrote about this. we all know people like this.
And for me, there is just no way to apply the word honourable to the way he treated his first wife, to his decades-long series of decisions to bow to the great God Mammon, to his incessant war-mongering & the lives it has already cost, and especially, to the way he bowed & kissed the ring of people he KNEW, from his own lived experience, were complete shits - if not evil.
McCain has that rot. And there's not much of the original man left.
August 25, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I must agre. I have watched the senate for about 16 years... since the first time I had access to Cspan I think. I used to think I would vote for McCain but I would have to say that I toyed with idea and probably would not have. But there were things I admired about him. However in the past 8 years I would have to review some history to actually figure out where the shift happened, he shifted dramatically. I am sure that he still have some redeeming characterstics but as he started towing the line and I saw more of another side of him... and perhaps his age combined with the toll his POW experience took him is affecting him. Well that and the 'kind/nature' of the campaign he is running have made it clear that he is now someone that is actually in my opinion a danger to our country as president. I am not kidding when I say that. I mean it in all sincerity.
August 25, 2008 5:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Q, don't drink too much of the kool-aid. He treated his first wife pretty well, they were separated under stressful conditions for over 5 years and then managed to keep their marriage together for 7 more years while both of them went through physical rehab, and that was in the 70's, when half the country got divorced. Sorry, I'll pile on where McCain's a prick, but I'm not in for the McHitler painting sessions. Leave people's personal lives alone unless it's really important, or I'll start talking about who was doing coke at the time, it being the 70's and all.
August 25, 2008 7:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, Obama was a young kid when he did his experimenting with drugs and he pulled himself out of it by his sophomore year in college. Secondly, I don't know how McCain treated Carol other than the fact that he has admitted to multiple affairs during their marriage. Women are going to attribute some character to that and many people believe that character is central to the requirements of the presidency.
August 25, 2008 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, you're right - politically, past personal fuck-up's & trials have has little place. I remember when I felt like I saw something something break in McCain - when he had to concede to Bush, and embrace the guy. People break in different ways, and at that moment.... I actually felt terrible. For him. Having to stand down, for that little piece of shit.
But personally, I have my views on how McCain has led his life. And from all I've seen, he looks like a sleazy piece of shit. And even when he "straightened up," I don't really like his choice of spouse, how he responds around her & a general sleaziness toward women that he seems to have. I wouldn't shoot him politically for it, but I wouldn't be bothering with his BBQ's either.
August 25, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
CORRECTION. Screwed up the bold code for the first paragraph of the quote above and it cut out an important sentence. Should read:
August 25, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll be honest there was a time I thought a great deal of John McCain. Of all the republicns running in 2000 for the nomination, I thought he was the best and I thought if we lost I could probably live with him. I truly think something has happened to him in the ensuing eight years. It could be age or just the fact that he knows this is is last shot and he'll do anything to get elected. I thought I would never hear him falling back on his POW status for every mis step. And maybe I didn't realize back in 2000 he shoots from the hip and doesn't think first.
I'm sorry to see the McCain I thought I knew become something that doesn't resemble that person.
August 25, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rec'd, because it's interesting -- and because I admire your effort to see both sides of a question at once.
I don't 100% agree, but I do agree about your basic point. McCain does have ideals that he seems to be serious about, which puts him way ahead of a lot of Republican pols. And I agree with you that it doesn't do any harm for us to remember that.
But I have to say, first, that the ideals themselves seem flawed to me. "Honor" is a lovely old-fashioned word, but it's also a word that has a long history of justifying anger, self-regard, inflexibility, and violence.
I'm more inclined to trust people who talk about reason, justice, equality, and community.
Secondly, there's this: McCain may be a better man than Bush, but I'm not convinced that he'd be a better president. His behavior during the Georgia crisis was not at all reassuring. Sometimes passionate, sincere people are actually more dangerous than cynical hypocrites.
August 25, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Alex. I chose to extract those words of his to form the post title because I think they are indicators of a deep schism in the man that is killing him, aging him before his time.
I have so much compassion for everyone who fought and suffered over there and who came back changed forever. Some like McCain had it very very tough.
That doesn't mean he should be president, it is just to suggest that compassion rather than ridicule is sometime appropriate too.
But your points are all well made and well taken. I can't say I disagree with any of them.
August 25, 2008 12:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Come on, man, Love and Faith have inspired as much violence as Honor. So Love is bad? Honor is a goal and motivation and an evaluation, not an excuse. You can't paint Honor over a dishonerable deed, whether successful or not, and attack and withdrawal and surrender can all be Honorable.
August 25, 2008 7:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, a nice abstract argument.
Faith has inspired as much violence as Honor, absolutely. But I'm not *wild* about Faith either, to tell you the truth.
I kind of doubt that Love belongs in the same category. Jealousy, maybe . . . but I don't think that's at all the same thing as Love.
But more generally -- sure, you can use any ideal to justify bad things. My point is that some ideals lend themselves to it, and others don't. If you replaced "honor," for instance, with "honesty," you'd have a hell of a net gain. "Honesty" keeps us true to our principles, without encouraging us all to behave like chest-beating alpha males.
August 25, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps your understanding of honor is different.
August 25, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I do spend a lot of time hanging out in the 18th c., and that may have shaped my perception that "honor" is usually a code word for "I've got the biggest cojones."
August 25, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
John McCain on the Supreme Court's habeas corpus decision (quoted from http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/06/mccain_slams_the_supreme_court.html):
Now here's the text of the US Constitution that McCain took an oath (on his honor? on the Bible?) to uphold and protect:
Note that it says not one word about the Great Writ being only for citizens.
John McCain's honor seems a temporary thing, to be sacrificed as convenient to the Mammon of his presidential ambition.
August 25, 2008 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for posting this McCain speech, Lux. It really surprised me, and then it made me profoundly sad.
Alex is right that the definition of honor too easily becomes distorted into something that, though sincere, is still not positive at all; and it seems to me that Quinn is right that the rot set into McCain a long, long time ago.
We might feel compassion for McCain as an individual, torn as he always is between a driven determination to serve with distinction as he sees it, and an entitlement complex that dictates self-recompense or reward. If he did not pose such a risk to us by running for president, we might actually be sorry that a man given so much, who endured so much, and who achieved so much is now recklessly self-sabotaging the legacy of honor and distinction he so desires.
Unfortunately, McCain doesn't understand that part of maturity is to learn, at some point, to accept the gifts in life one has been given -- even if they are not those one wished for -- and to accept the relative merit one has achieved as good enough, if not all that one hoped to achieve. That McCain, at 72, does not get this is sad...and scary.
August 25, 2008 4:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I value my right to confront my accusers in court as a fundamental bed rock to my quality of life - John McCain intemperately voted for that right to be suspended -then critized the handpicked neo conservative Supreme Court for giving me back that right .
McCain has sold his soul , his moral authority , and his honorable family legacy to become President . His vote against my right to confront my accusers in court is not a "comic book caricature" -its a fact to base my decision on whom should earn my vote this November ,,,
In my opinion a McCain administration would be a clear and present danger to my civil liberties .
August 25, 2008 6:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe it's the two Americas deal. McCain is faithful to an America that for most of us doesn't exist. As for the attacks on Feingold that got worked into the thread, they were inevitable after his mauling of Obama over FISA I guess.
August 25, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good post as usual, Lux. If only deeds matched words...
August 25, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
A few days ago, I found myself in a situation where someone who had done great wrong to me - more than once - needed my help. He needed to go to the hospital, because he had a nasty gash opened over his right eye (obtained while doing wrong unto someone else).
I took him to the emergency room, waited the obligatory four hours for him to be seen and treated, and took him home. The whole time, I don't think I said 20 words to him. I was angry at myself for helping someone who had treated me so badly, but I don't think I could have lived with myself if I hadn't helped him. You know...Matthew 18:21-23 and all that rot.
The nature of the wrongs referenced above is immaterial. The point is, the 2003 version of me would have left him bleeding on the curbside where I saw him. The 1998 version of me might have walked over and kicked him in the wound before leaving him.
The reasons for me helping this person are also immaterial. The thing is that character can - and does - change. I think that's the triumph and the tragedy of the human condition.
John McCain's central character changed at some point. Yes, he cheated on his wife, but relationships are complicated enough - even if you don't throw in horrible injuries suffered by both John and Carol McCain.
Honestly, I still think he had core principles and decency. In fact, though I supported Gore in 2000, I would not have minded if John McCain were president. Where I truly believe McCain lost his way was after the 2000 Republican primary, where he endured a series of February Bush/Rove smears that knocked him out of contention. After that, he got on board with the GOP train more and more with each passing year.
McCain's single overriding ambition since that primary has been to get his one final crack at the Presidency. For this, he has sold his maverick status down the river. The McCain you see in the commencement address Lux Umbra Dei links to no longer exists. That character has been erased by ambition and political expedience.
And, to be honest, I think that it galls McCain on some level to be running the campaign he is, to not be able to be his free-wheeling self on the trail. I think McCain's fully aware that the 2000 McCain would never endorse the 2008 McCain. And, in a way, I feel sorry for him, because his ambition, plus the brutal experience with the GOP smear factory, wiped away his last vestiges of independent thinking.
But none of this allows McCain a pass for his change in character. In the end, that change in character will shine through, and it's what I think will ultimately lead him to defeat. The image I see is John McCain, sitting at his Senate desk in mid-January, pondering what happened to the actual maverick he once was - and what might have been if he had dared to be that maverick during this election.
August 25, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is doing whetever he can to get elected, including appealing to the evangelical, conservative base. Just like there are many liberals who think Barack's moves to the right are just playing for votes and he will govern in a more liberal way. Not all of the evangelicals & conservatives buy McCain's conversion it and I sure don't either. There are many independents who hope that since McCain would be a one-term president, he would be a constituency of one. The Bush-lite he has morphed himself into will give way to the maverick inside. Who doubts that real immigration reform will take place if McCain is elected despite the backlash from the conservatives? What are they going to do - not vote for him in 2012? He doesn't give a crap about 2012 - which makes him truly unknown and dangerous for both conservatives and liberals alike.
The problem for me is his core convictions such as pro-life and his militaristic approach to foreign affairs. The problem for me is he sees government as the problem and not the solution for progressive plans to improve healthcare, erase poverty, improve our educational system, privatize social security etc. John McCain is not an evil man - he's just wrong on the issues that matter to me. The sooner we stop focusing on attacking McCain's character and start focusing on his policies, the sooner Americans can make a real, informed decision about what kind of future we want for this country. I hope Obama comes out on the winning side of that debate.
August 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think McCain's beliefs have converted. But I think his politics have. I believe the people behind him - and the advisers around him - will make him beholden to the GOP standard-issue line he's adopted.
As for Obama, I say he's a pragmatist. His life and voting record both say he's willing to compromise, to get some of what he wants in exchange for having to swallow some of what he doesn't want - with the idea that he can work to get more of what he wants later. I think he'll govern *slightly* more leftward than he's campaigning, but not much.
I don't like character attacks, but the MSM won't listen unless you give them something juicy (read: "negative") to work with. Democrats have not been willing to raise character questions, and it's killed them in the last two elections. So, as far as character attacks go, I'm fine with them, with two qualifiers.
(1) There's a difference between an attack and a smear.
(2) The character issue has to be linked to at least one major election issue.
This is why I supported and voted for Bill Clinton in '96, even though I wouldn't have trusted him around my girlfriend at the time. His character issues had nothing to do with his ability to govern and make decisions (all Leno-type jokes aside).
August 25, 2008 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lux, excellent and thoughtful post. Thanks.
August 25, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great thanks to all who thanked!
This was never meant as a "Reason to Vote for McCain" thread. And it was never intended to say McCain was/is honorable in all his dealings.
But we all have ideals, sometimes remote --flags fluttering on the tops of inaccessible mountain tops, that we aspire to or give weight to all our lives and take to our graves with us.
I sensed in this whole commencement speech (just not the part I excerpted) that we were seeing the McCain that McCain himself wants to be. Kind, caring, sensitive of the transitivity of life, a good person.
When he wrote the speech I think his eyes were both looking at his own reality and that distant flag fluttering ever so high in the cold blue air.
August 25, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understood you didn't want your post to be about the political race.
But the irony is, I think it is crucial to understand in this way in order to play the political horse race game successfully, it's what the pros do. A lot of crap that blogger amateurs are pushing now attempting to label McCain is inaccurate and is just not going to ring true with people who are undecided, if McCain can manage to get his real self across. (And I will admit that that IF is in question, given his often poor campaign performances.) Hyperbole only works if it has a slice of reality in it. You've got to know the product well if you're going to attack it successfully, it's got to ring true to people.
Obama is also in an unusual situation that would make certain types of attacks that might work in another race backfire: hurting McCain's rep isn't at all the main thing he needs to do to win; winning the election is still all about Obama because he is the one whose past life story and image is less known to the public, particularly the public that is in play in order to win, and because of the "throw out the bums" zeitgeist this time. It may be true that he needs to show fighting passion against McCain, but that's because he needs to show fighting passion. Attacking McCain in a way that ends up looking inaccurate will hurt Obama, not help--he is in danger of labeling himself like he doesn't have wisdom if he pegs McCain like he doesn't appear in debates and future campaign performances.
Personally, putting my own amateur spinmeister hat on for a minute, I like the pity angle, i.e., poor John McCain, you used to be such a great guy, what the hell happened to you? But then I'm no seasoned campaign operative.
We'll all know better what images both candidates are going for once the conventions are over. In particular, what the GOP does to remove McCain from George Bush's side is going to be interesting and will give the pros something to work with. Whoever McCain presents as at the convention, he can't easily go back on or finesse in debates.
August 25, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
lordy, it's guaranteed that over 50% of the time I will screw up the html code for a link, no matter how many times I proof it:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/obamabots-rage-while-obama-col.php#comment-3043103
August 25, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Artappraiser,
That was really good to read. You have read my intent accurately. If we work from the basis of shared humanity and an honest appreciation of our opponent strengths as well as weakness, we gain credibility and empathy and hopefully make bigger inroads into the red states.
And importantly, we see him as others see him. Its not in the end who sees correctly, because we all do. It is gaining legitimacy by giving legitimacy...
And even more importantly, it is staying true to our own inner counsels.
August 25, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a very good post, Lux. I have always admired your comments and so read your piece as soon as I saw it. I have no doubt that McCain was sincere about honor (and still is), but concepts of honor are malleable.
I was dismayed at the comments disparaging Feingold, for (without divulging how, beyond that it's in connection with my job at an institution in Wisconsin) I can attest to his character from personal familiarity with him (not just "looking him in the eye"). I know of no politician whose motives and ideals I would consider authentic and fully in the spirit of our constitution and Bill of Rights. And I say this having had contact with another US Senator, although not as directly. Russ Feingold is the real deal.
August 25, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correction: "I know of no OTHER politician whose motives and ideals...."
August 25, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you so much ritroxel! I too was saddened by the criticism of Feingold as I consider him one of the most principled men in the Senate at this time.
But that's because he shares my particular set of values. We don't all share the same sets so we don't all feel equal amounts of respect....and that's to the good generally.
But Feingold would be on my own short list for the DOJ AG appointment or nomination to the Supreme Court.
August 25, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hadn't thought of those possibilities, but I think he would be an ideal candidate for either post.
'Nice use of Latin in your screen name, by the way.
August 25, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. - not to mention the good coordination between your screen name and your avatar!
August 25, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is a fortuitously good match! I used to memorize latin phrases so as to sound more intelligent than I really was; nowadays with my memory growing ever more unreliable and forgetting my way to the grocery store once, still those old phrases pop up.
Two more I like that you might enjoy also:
Nihil magnum, nisi bonum: "nothing is great that is not good"
Ne vile fano: "bring nothing base to the shrine"
August 25, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and one of my favorites:
Ab altes speres, qui quod feceris: "Expect from Heaven what you do to another"
I'm not sure of that last one, "qui" may be incorrect....
OK, I'll stop now.
August 25, 2008 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the "qui" confused me; "quod" by itself is the appropriate relative pronoun.
Latin is a wonderful language, although I don't read it as much as I used to.
August 25, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Syntactically similar is this from the Sententiae of Publilius Syra: Ab alio expectes, alteri quod feceris.
Oh well, I guess we digressed a bit from McCain's speech about honor. But you can't help but think of the Romans when you talk of boasts of honor.
August 25, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, they do come to mind, and yes we have wandered!
But in delightful company...
Take care of yourself.
-Lux
August 25, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Americans have this peculiar fancy that we arrived on the scene fully formed, ex nihilo, or that all things began 10 or 30 years ago.
Latin just reminds me of the tremendous and awesome tradition we are part of. Duns Scotus, Thomas Aquinas, Tertullian, Erasmus!, Voltaire, Kant, and all the legions of bright spirits that have gone before, their blood flows through us and shapes us. We are their amnesiac children.
August 25, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nicely said.
Incidentally, I wonder if your "qui" in the earlier citation should be "cui," "to whom."
August 25, 2008 10:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ab altes speres alteri quod feceris!
That's what is written in my 40-year old notebook. Googling it I think it may be inaccurate since the only user of it seems to be me!
August 25, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well 24 hours has gone by so this thread should be closing down soon.
Closing with this.
"Much have I admired, nothing have I despised"
August 26, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
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