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"Help the Man Out"
I'll just come out and say it: If Barack Obama loses this election, it will be Hillary Clinton's fault. She does nothing but undermine Barack. She needs to get over herself and get with the program.
Look, he's already got an entire country of racists determined to tear him down. It'll be a miracle if he wins.
He's bending over backwards to accommodate the angry old white women at the convention by allowing Hillary to speak. What more do they want? I mean, what's he supposed to do? Kiss their wrinkly fat asses? They get a whole night to themselves: Call it (Old) Girls Night Out. Okay, okay, that's not funny.
Look. This is a historic election. Do you want to throw away 4 or 8 years plus the Supreme Court plus Roe v. Wade? It's up to you.
Look, just keep your voice down, okay? The neighbors are reading this blog.
Hey, are you doing any laundry tonight? Can you throw in a few things for me while you're at it? All my white shirts are dirty. Thanks.
Comments (60)
Oh, Blow...I can't agree with you, I can't console you (you won't be consoled)...I think I'll just shut up now and let you either get over it (or not) at your own pace, in your own way...
August 23, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to worry, stillidealistic, writing this post was surprisingly cathartic for me. ;-)
August 23, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm TRULY glad to hear that! :-) See ya around the site!
August 23, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you 100% except for the last few lines to add to their list of offenses - one of the big ones being sexism. We do not need to continue that and add to it.
August 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love the snark
August 23, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since I'm just back from vacation, I'm happy to jump in on the theme ofGirl Talk.
Mash up Dee Lite with Cobain, Beach Boys with Salt N Pepa, a little Orbison and I'm not sure I need to see the actual Convention - Girl Talk's already got it.
That said, I really liked Biden back in '87, when he talked about moving beyond Reagan's materialism, and I still like him for being a happy-to-attack, bad-tempered bastard - which Obama needs. But. Politically, he's left open an enormous move for McCain - to name a woman VP.
Seen long-term - not just in terms of the early battles vs McCain - the Dems have seen the full-scale arrival of two revolutions this year - sex & race. I feel like Obama has been too cautious, maybe even myopic, by not doing everything he could to fully integrate BOTH. And YES, I also blame Hillary for not seeing this big picture & for not being creative enough in how she worked to integrate these two. But at this stage, the initiative was Obama's & I think his caution served him very poorly here.
Now the question is how to creatively integrate anger/attack & vision/unity, black & white, working class & intellectuals, men & women. The waves of change in the 60's/70's had to grapple creatively with the same things, with FAR less public support, so the challenge now is to see what we can do. But if I were McCain, I'd be naming a female VP right about, ohhhhh, tomorrow noon.
And yes, Gasket, I AM doing some laundry this aft. Be happy to do your shirts. The sound of the washer should help drown out my screams of anger. Damn fools, both of 'em. Obama AND Hillary. On this issue, they're both damn fools in my book. Cold water wash? Javex?
August 23, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I still think Fiorina would knock their socks off, combining your female candidates and laundry themes, a rather questionable association if you weren't doing the work yourself. Can you do my lederhosen while you're at it?
August 23, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got it, quinn. ;-)
I've been robbed and ridiculed. Handle me with care.
August 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you been commercialized, too?!
August 23, 2008 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I just like Roy Orbison.
August 24, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the reminder of Roy... and that cool, cool voice. Of course, my fave will always be Roy with the Prairie's own greatest (straight or lesbian) pipes - kd lang. Funny, but on topic I think. I first saw/heard kd at a little outdoor country fair, singing country punk on a wooden stage, maybe 150 people. I'd seen every band I'd ever wanted to see, and wandered into this local concert expecting the worst. What I felt... I can only compare to what people seeing Elvis must have felt. Voice of the Gods. Charisma that made you shake. Energy of a tornado - damn near, but not quite, tearing her apart. That woman blew the boards off of every preconceived idea I had of what men & women could do, what country & soul meant. This is them crying.
What bothers me MOST in this whole accursed Obama & Hillary battle is the achingly narrow confines within which the men/women "issue" has become contained within the Democrats. Like I've said many times before, I didn't LIKE Hillary. But to not understand that the source of this pain/division/emotion lies not just with "18 million" voters, but with billions... with my sisters and nieces and lovers and mother and grandmother... and to not understand that THAT has to be spoken about, recognized, addressed and FELT... this, for me, is agony. And having idiots shout that "McCain will reverse Roe vs Wade" and therefore, we should pile all our energy in behind his opponent, strikes me as worse than shallow. Beyond dim.
In short, if you don't "get" where kd sings from - in the same way as you don't "get" what ghetto life is... or what being poor white trash is... or a Latino immigrant cleaning floors.... or being stuck, hopeless, on the battlefield... or standing watching your river or fields or trees or polar bears die - then you don't GET what an awful lot of people feel. And while I love an awful lot about Obama, and think he DOES "get" a lot of these things, truly, in his heart, I'll be damned if I don't agree that somehow, he - and some of his worst supporters - still... doesn't. Which is why this thing sometimes feels to me like a Greek tragedy unfolding, and very little time left to turn it into something else.
August 23, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worthy of its own post.
August 24, 2008 3:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Which would save some bandwidth here. :)
August 24, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And, it'll be a miracle if you again become sane.
August 23, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gasket - I (as a wrinkly old girl) thought it was funny.
and Quinn - It WOULD be a good move for McMansion to name a woman VP, but I really am becoming convinced he is a MCP (male chauvinistic piglet), therefore, unfathomable.
August 23, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain IS a pig, but that guy's had ambition a LONG time. He could park a woman in the VP slot & give her nothing to do - and he & the GOP Old Boys know they'd just run the show as always. Politics is a nasty sport & any disgruntled constituency - whether justified or not - needs to be dealt with on THEIR terms. McCain's no dummy. Dems can shout that he'd continue his war-making & load up the Supreme Court against women... but both McCain & Rove are smart enough to know that brining big chunks of women voters on-board would be in their short AND long-term interest. Nope, Obama's gonna have to do something special at the Convention, in league with HRC or on his own.
August 23, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quinn - I agree, mostly. I think I am just hoping (dreaming) this will be one of those times McIdiot just HAS to "do it my way."
And I do hope Obama will do something special for the female constituency at the convention - with HRC, Sebelius, et al.
Thanks for talking to me - I don't post often and its nice to be listened to and responded to in such a good way.
August 23, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
What else would you want besides reproductive control and equal rights -two key woman's issues to me. With McCain we will watch both evaporate.
August 23, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely...given that, how could you even contemplate voting for McCain? I don't care how pissed of you are...
August 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lil: I'm glad you laughed and commented. Thanks for telling me. ;-)
stillidealistic and MsJoanne: You don't seem to understand (yet) that for women, it doesn't make any difference which man becomes president. What matters is attitudes toward women have changed little since John McCain's generation.
August 23, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to disagree again. When I was in high school, I applied for a job as a "box boy" at our local grocery store. Even though I was athletic and strong, I was told that was no job for a girl. So I applied at the gas station (back when all stations were full service. I could pump gas and clean windows as any boy, but I got the same story...Look what we can do now. My daughter is a police officer, well respected in her department. I think we've come a long way.
August 23, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You seem to be confusing "attitudes" with "legally mandated opportunities."
It is against the law to discriminate against women in the workplace, however, the wage gap is fairly decent proof that not much has changed. Women are not considered equals worthy of making their own decisions.
Obama could have helped to change that attitude, but chose an old white guy. The attitudes have not changed.
August 23, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
By saying that you are completely ignoring all the reasons why Hillary was not a good choice for him. I don't think he was in any way saying that a woman can't do the job. BUT, if he had chosen another woman it would have been a huge slap in the face to Hillary. So once again, he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
August 23, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary? I did not mention Hillary, that's a straw, um, 'woman.'
=)
Are you saying that there were no women that were equally qualified to be Vice President? That Hillary Clinton was so shallow as to consider a female pick as a "slap in the face?" Why, because "women are like that?"
I have to agree with gasket. Attitudes sure as hell haven't changed.
August 23, 2008 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
After thinking about it a little longer, I'm going to correct my unfair generalization about McCain's generation, because the reality is, I know more men of McCain's generation who are true-blue liberals/feminists than I do men who are 25 years younger than McCain. I myself am 25 years younger than McCain.
I will also add that the conservative men who are of McCain's generation are as odious as the conservative men of Reagan's generation. Since conservatives have been calling the shots in American politics for the last several decades, therefore, no wonder attitudes have barely budged.
August 23, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whew. I dodged a bullet there, Gasket. Being a mere 23 years younger than McCain, I woulda been insulted to have been included. ;-)
Slightly more seriously, while I get your point, I WOULD say that for men 25 years younger than McCain, they had to come of age during a time when their whole sexual world was pretty uncertain. That is, it's hard to be mature & then face fundamental challenge. But it's also no easy trick to feel like you have NO established footing at all. Though I do have numerous male friends who I regard as having done pretty well.
Not whining, just saying. (I'll whine later, when it turns out I've just shrunk all my shirts.) (And yours.)
August 23, 2008 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think your theory about our age group is very interesting, quinn. I also wonder how much economic and cultural factors inform gender perceptions of each generation: like the phenomenon of women flooding the workforce and taking an active role in the war effort during World War 2.
August 24, 2008 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Point taken. Perhaps that is why 47-year-old Obama went with the standard "old white guy" as a VP pick.
Afraid to rock THAT boat.
August 24, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you really trying to tell me that if he had asked ANOTHER woman you would not have been MORE insulted?
August 23, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
What?
Why are you personalizing this? You stated that Hillary Clinton would have felt more insulted if Obama had picked another woman,
I had a problem with that generalization. It seemed to me unsupportable and sexist.
That was also, BTW a change of subject from my original point, in which you seemed to be conflating "attitudes" with "opportunity." These changes in your arguments are really quite tiresome.
August 24, 2008 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't get how anything I said was "personalizing"... I'm trying (very unsuccessfully) to understand how Obama's not chosing a woman (Hillary OR someone else) for his vp automatically means that "attitudes" towards women have not changed.
Sexist, tiresome...ugggghhhhh...sometimes you just have to cry uncle and move on to more rational discussions.....UNCLE!
August 24, 2008 2:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry Sabato said that by his calculations, Joe Biden got 9,500 votes during the primaries. Hillary Clinton got 18 million.
If you can't get that, stillidealistic, I can't help you.
August 24, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, Blow...I so get it...But I also so get that the "Clinton" issue is very complex. I know that my feelings about this are very biased because I was (and to some degree still am) so disgusted by the Clinton's behavior in office. The reasons for this are many and diverse and not germane to this discussion, except that the reasons have NOTHING to do w/ her being female, which is my whole point to begin with. I just don't believe this is a sexist issue. Its a "Clinton" issue.
Intelligent, educated people (and really, dumb, uneducated people as well)can disagree on this w/o the issue of gender ever coming up. The "TEAM" concept w/ the Clinton's is huge. Just like they were a package deal before, they are a package deal now. A lot of wise people see how this could be a huge distraction, not to mention an issue capable of spurring a mess of people on the other side into action.
I know I'm not going to change your mind on this, Blow, but it continues to be important to me that you understand where I'm coming from. I'm NOT trying to be stubborn, I'm just telling you how I feel. You know I have a soft spot in my heart for you!
August 24, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
The polls show that Hillary did not retain 18 million votes which took place in the primary. The majority have moved on to Obama for the general election.
August 24, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please sir, I want some more.
Mooooooooooore!? You want mooooooooooooooooore!?
C'mon ladies, be really happy. Your right to choose is protected; isn't that all you care about? What, you want moooooooooooore?
August 24, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think a woman upstream styled it as "reproductive control." Amusing.
August 24, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with the post. I think Hillary Clinton should leave Obama to win or lose on his own. If she does that, she'll get criticized as much as she's getting criticized now, but she'd have all her time and all her supporters for her agenda. Unfortunately, she's unduly committed to there being a Democrat in the White.
August 23, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am glad Hillary didn’t agree to VP. The party is already over.
Say hello to President McCain!
Clinton 2012 !
August 23, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oy...gotalife's "white wrinkly ass" is back again. He must must be bored doing the laundry.
August 23, 2008 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad too, gotalife. I'm looking forward to her convention speech. ;-)
August 23, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey,
as a guy who's tried to be West Coast new age super sensitive to women's issues since my mom was an early libber in the early 60's,
who loved more than my share of intelligent American women when we are all young and wild,
and as now an old married guy with a David Crosby/Melissa Ethridge type daughter we share with her Mama and her Mommy, in addition to our own son,
blowagasket you really are borderline offensive to women in general and I assume, in your defense, you're trying for some sort of snarky sarcasm with the laundry bit.
I was taught to do my own damn laundry and I've been doing it for decades. Get with the program, make a positive difference as we approach a time when all our daughters and sons are in grave danger from the consequences of our neglect and laziness as a "civilization."
We can debate whether or not Hillary is giving the right degree of enthusiasm in her statements of support for Barack. But if he falls short, the cause will far more likely be in the vote-stealing of Repubs and the lies of their friends/whores in the mass media than in any lack of support from women of all colors.
But then the sophmoric humor (or passive hostility) in the ending paragraphs destroys your attempt at posing as a serious observer.
August 23, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Whores."
Appropriate word choice for this post.
August 23, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, Feather, I'm not sure you realize that Gasket's post is completely tongue-in-cheek reverse-satire of a stereotypically insulting Obama supporter, not as a serious observer. And well, iron my shirt, do my laundry, what can I say...
August 23, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wish I could write like guys like feather do. And we all could learn something about sensitivity from him. My favorite song from the '60s was Take Off Your Bra Before You Burn It."
August 24, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time to let it go. Idiocy stipulated.
August 23, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
George Soros who ran evil errands for Hitler as an adolescent, who created the present lunatic government of Georgia, and who has now virtually created the Barack Obama candidacy, become a key player in bringing the world as a whole into a thermonuclear showdown in August? This is the time you could lose civilization quicker than you could say "Senator Barack Obama." Your best option, as a citizen of the U.S.A., is to think very, very seriously about the upcoming major-party nominating conventions. If you do not bring about the nomination of a combination of President and Vice-President who reject the politics of the present nuclear showdown which London's puppet, the George W. Bush Administration, is staging, there might be, very soon, no United States as it exists today, and perhaps no you, nor your city or town, or family, either.
August 16, 2008:
Hillary Clinton backer Michele Thomas, who was instrumental in putting Hillary Clinton's name in nomination at the Democratic National Convention, and a panel of LaRouche Youth Movement activists Ian Overton and Alicia Cerretani, on "The Fight for Principles at the Democratic National Convention." Hosted by Harley Schlanger
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/help-the-man-out.php#comments
August 23, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
You've got problems, man.
August 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd say we all do, dude.
August 23, 2008 10:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except for George Soros, maybe.
(Just thought I'd add that to see if we can get our friend above to drop by ALL your posts Gasket!)
August 24, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hope so! Provides a welcome sanity check.
August 24, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
And BTW, how come "agasket" doesn't use the whole family name? Is this the Americanization of a once-proud clan?
And no, don't even try to convince me that "readytoblow" is your first name.
August 24, 2008 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
agasket is an impostor and a gold digger.
August 24, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
See ya later, Blow! Glad you're feeling better...
August 24, 2008 2:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, one more thing, Blow... I keep forgetting to mention that, subject matter aside, the quality of the snark was great!
I am not a sarcastic person, but I live w/ a mess of 'em, so I appreciate the art form!
August 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the compliment and for contributing to the thread, stillidealistic. You know I don't mind differences of opinion, and that I enjoy extending the dialogue. ;-)
August 24, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny and poignant post in the midst of lots of silly posts admonishing folks who will be voting for Obama to vote for Obama. As an aside, of course, I interpret what these posters are really saying is that there is a need to love Obama, to treat him as something high and lofty, rather than to view him as the guy who waged a tough campaign and beat the reigning champ. There is a difference; I hope thinking people recognize that, eventually, lest we all be subjected to lots of high and mighty drivel for the next few months.
As to your help the guy out thingie, yea, it brings to mind much of what is wrong with this country now, and perhaps for generations. It's always the other guy's fault. The notion that it is not the job of the guy who is trying to win to do what he can to unify this Party is preposterous. It is not, I assume, the understanding of the Obama campaign itself. It is, indeed, the attitude of spoiled people. It's silly, it's wrong, and it will ensure a lousy result in November. Grow up folks and take responsibility.
August 24, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
And once again..... Bruce rocks.
August 24, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Quinn, eh (ay?):
Welcome back friend. You haven't missed a beat I see.
Bruce
August 24, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for that high and mighty condescension, Bruce.
August 26, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gasket. Hurry back. Tried to comment on your Bedtime story (which I liked very much) but keep getting tied up in the sign-in procedure. Anyway, hope you get this... and come back soon, ok?
August 27, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
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