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Hat Tip - Wes Clark
Okay, in the spirit of "Almost Anybody But Tim Kaine" (which by the way besides him being halfway to Republican would give the Republicans the Virginia governship), and since Sebelius is horribly, deathly boring (as Gasket made me painfully acknowledge by watching a video that had me chewing on my leather arm restraints after 43 seconds), and since through a ton of non-too-subtle hints that Hillary is more likely to launch on the next space shuttle than be the VP nominee, I today for this moment and perhaps longer if my heart can stop fluttering sign on to Matt Stoller's Wes Clark promotion.
Obama doesn't support the troops? Here's that one in your eye. Being a POW is your main claim to fame? Well, here's a 4-star general who ran a war and still rappelled down a ravine to try and save troops. And most important, he's got liberal tendencies. While occasionally seeming a bit too earnest or naive and getting foot-in-mouth disease, virtually all the potential candidates suffer from these traits (with the least prone now set to blast off on Challenger any day now). And I don't think anyone doubts Clark on his beliefs and where he sits on positions. And frankly, I hope he'll put the kabash on sending more troops to Afghanistan, or at least figure out a strategic reason for sending them before we do.
So let's stand down Kaine, bring in Clark and raise some Hell. Give Wes a few piercing soundbites to work with on the Surge, on bringing troops home, on McCain's ability to waffle and backtrack on his multiple flip-flops, on what real on-the-ground fighting experience means (but don't give Wes too long a leash - he'll get it twisted around the lightpole).
Comments (68)
Des,
I'm not against this. I'll have to do more research to be for it. Nice post. Rec'd.
August 1, 2008 4:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whew, it's August already - I was worried you'd agreed with me twice in one month.
August 1, 2008 5:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just FYI when you're back....
28 rec's for Clark.
7 for Angelina.
3 for Paris.
This nation is doomed.
August 2, 2008 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
29 now. That last rec was just unnecessary, I think. Salt/wound.
And I got Angelina here, in tears. "7 measly rec's," she says. "What's Wesley got that I don't?" Which is tough to answer, when you get to to it. Ahhh well. Looks like the Dems want Clark... And I got Angelina... Soooooo, McDes, that means YOU spend the weekend consoling... Paris. Enjoy the scintillating conversation.
August 2, 2008 3:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Leather arm restraints. Rec'd.
August 1, 2008 7:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Careful Alex. He never mentioned any leg restraints.
Come to think of it, no mention of tail, pincer, mandible, tentacle or gas-sac restraints either.
August 1, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wes Clark was my favorite pick all along, if not a woman who is completely outside the Washington Bubble. We need to get over this notion that using the VP as 8 years of training for president is a rational way to keep passing the torch.
August 1, 2008 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Has had a lot more practice at talking head work the last few years. Would be really unusual for someone doing that not to pick up some knowledge about how the media operates and how to work with that.
August 1, 2008 8:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
To be truthful, I haven't seen him in a while but would hope he's improved.
August 1, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed Des - Wes Clark isn't a bad at all especially in comparison to Kaine. Not the pick that makes us most likely to win in my opinion, but it's Obama's choice to make. Methinks Tim Kaine talk was just another brilliant headfake to let Hillary supporters and the liberal base know whomever he eventually gives the nod to, it could have been much, much worse.
August 1, 2008 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like the fact that Clark outranks McCain. It defuses the military factor somewhat.
August 1, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Des, I have always liked and respected Wes Clark. He has been victimized by the ugly psycho Republican political machine - because you always attack most vigorously the ones you fear the most.
Clark is totally credible on the military, as you said, and a pretty astute guy, despite the way he's been vilified. I've seen him several times on Bill Maher's show and I liked him there.
And, let's face it, VP is not Pres. He wouldn't be running for president, but to be part of the Obama White House. I've always liked the idea, though right now his political capital is not so high - again because of the smear merchants.
Can we turn that around? I guess it's up to Obama to consider. I know I'd be jumping for joy to have Clark as VP - well anyone - after Darth Cheney.
August 1, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Totally agree that Wes Clark would be wonderful. Disagree as vehemently that Kaine is bad. Obviously, people who are complaining about Kaine don't know anything about the state he has to govern. He's a wonderful governor; he's not halfway to Republican; he's not a "pro-life" legislative or judiciary advocate; he's not at all anti-gay. Basically, he's an extremely conscientious liberal who was elected governor in a very conservative state. He is way more liberal than where he has to be in Virginia in order to have been elected and to keep Democratic governors in office.
August 1, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Re Kaine
This piece on Kaine really put me off -- I really don't want two God Squaders on the ticket.
I don't trust Kaine on reproductive rights - a biggie for me and definitely for a large majority of Hillary voters.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/24/opinion/main682882.shtml
August 1, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
That article was a hatchet job by someone who doesn't know what he's talking about - the similarity between Kaine and Bush is nonexistent. There was an interesting profile of Tim Kaine by a guest on the Rachel Maddow show - someone who writes for the Nation. But I live in Virginia, and Tim Kaine lived in my neighborhood at one time - he's an incredibly authentic and good human being. He is a committed Catholic, but it's only informed him to pursue a progressive and humane political agenda (in other words, he lives his conscience). The article is way too focused on Kaine's religious views (although Kaine is unapologetic about his Catholicism), and says very little about Kaine's career in public service, his civil rights and civil libertarian legal career, etc. Kaine is married to Anne Holton, an exceptional lawyer/former judge who spent a long career working as a legal aid attorney. Both spouses are Harvard Law grads, and could have been making big bucks doing just about anything. Listen to this for a different view of Kaine and Holton: http://airamerica.com/maddow/ (Sorry, seach on "Kaine" and scroll down - don't know how to send a link to the exact spot on the page.) Anyway, I hate it when people reject someone on some kind of bigoted test - the guy is thoughtful, brilliant and progressive, and not only that, he won the governorship of a conservative state.
August 1, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Religious bigotry over a woman's reproductive rights is DAMN SERIOUS.
Bottom line Dee Dee this guy has shown to be no defender of woman's civil rights and freedoms.
Even John Nicols had this to say about Kaine:
We've seen what devout talkers do when they have the power in their hands -- so he could very well be similar to Bush, whereby he becomes the enabler of law and the Catholic church to strip woman of their rights.
The PRO-CHOICE plank in the Democratic Party is non-negotiable.
August 1, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tim Kaine is against abortion personally, but is pro-choice. His comment about stem cells (in reply to dijamo) was made on a radio program where he indicated that he would not be "proposing" stem cell research in Virginia. In Virginia, such a proposal would be fruitless - he's governor because he doesn't take up fruitless causes. He probably wouldn't be out there campaigning for stem cell research, but I doubt he'd be in the forefront opposing it either. Again, Tim Kaine is a committed Catholic, and it informs his personal behavior, but he and his wife are very progressive democrats, including on the issue of choice. People need to understand that someone who is strictly religious as a matter of personal conscience doesn't necessarily believe in foisting their beliefs on other people.
Kaine is not my first choice, only because I think it would take a while (maybe longer than 3 months) for people to warm to him. And as I said, I love Wes Clark. However, if Obama chooses Kaine, I would suggest that Democrats who don't know Kaine keep a very open mind - he's not the politician you're describing here.
August 1, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Being a member of Democrats for Life is not pro-choice.
Please research Democrats for Life and their agenda.
August 1, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/26/AR2005102602504.html
Doesn't matter that he's a member of an organization. He's "pro-life" in that he would try to reduce the number of abortions, but he respects the Constitutional right of a woman to choose. Keep in mind the tightrope he walks in Virginia, and how he has succeeded.
August 1, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
See also, more explicitly, http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07/kaine-keep-roe.html
August 1, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dee Dee I wasn't born yesterday...
He is not pro-choice and no sane pro-choice democrat would trust the guy to protect reproductive rights.
The question you really should be asking is would he still respect a women's right to choose if his catholic buddies on the supreme court decided an abortion was not a woman's constitutional right?
He's not pro-choice Dee Dee... I guess at the end of the day we both have to agree that we strongly disagree.
That said, I'm glad you are on-board with Clark.
August 1, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Always an interesting idea. Clark has been soldiering in the trenches since he folded his 2004 bid. I actually donated some fairly serious money to his campaign that year. Thought he was head and shoulders above Kerry. I wonder if it is Obama's style to fill his gaps, though. Has anyone made a good case for why he wouldn't pick Bayh? Two Senator problem? Two Midwesterners problem? May be moot. If his momentum continues to falter over the next couple of weeks, he may have to crawl. Does she wear high heels, by the way?
August 1, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Neither Bayh nor Sebelius resolve objections to Obama's low-key manner; rather, they only compound it. Clark is also low-key, but there is obviously tempered steel -- and, dare I say it, a certain "maverick" willingness to say what he thinks -- beneath his facade. Clark, or Biden, would be good choices. Yes?
August 1, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure. The campaign will be about Obama anyway, not about his VP. And if he doesn't make it this time, he can try again in 2012. I just wish Clinton would take her hat out of the ring so that she doesn't get tempted to try to same him.
August 1, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like Clinton just withdrew. Though she could always change her mind.
I still think this is all head-fakes & housecleaning. Float everyone else, then go with the obvious. Clinton is the best pick - he knows it. The dynamics, the chemistry between them is the thing - like when they appeared together. And they're a walking example of how, real-world, Obama can suck up a beating, and work with people. The dynamics of them going after McCain would be brilliant I think. Right now, it's like he doesn't know how hard he's allowed to punch him. Hillary wouldn't hesitate - and Obama could still stick to his path. JFK & LBJ. Clark would be my second fave. The guy has smarts, and isn't afraid to go after McCain on military stuff.
August 1, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has no chance. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Goose egg. Nuffin. L'oeuf. Faggeddaboudit.
August 1, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhh, but as the great Rocket Richard once said,
"Never say L'oeuf."
August 2, 2008 3:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Carefull now. The press would eat Biden the Gasbag alive.
August 1, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not sorry about it either and despite his policy positions: the guy is an insufferable gasbag.
August 1, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Odd that I'm agreeing so strongly with Billy Glad and Desidero as to Wes Clark. I voted for him in the primaries when he ran. Someone who might bring the party together, for sure.
August 1, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am a big Wes Clark fan. I think he gets too little credit for having run a pretty respectable campaign in 2004 given that he jumped in when it was already almost over. He is not afraid to attack and can certainly go toe-to-toe with McCain on military and foreign affairs. Also, having been a General gives his CV administrative experience that McCain has not had as a POW or member of Congress. That said, I still think it is a good idea to choose a woman, and if he won't take HRC, then perhaps Sebelius can wear a little leather.
August 1, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hate the implication that just choosing another woman will pacify the Hillary fans. Some of them (like me) thought Hillary was the best candidate without regard to her gender. That would just more enflame the Hillary voters that think he's patronizing them...or at least that's how I'd view it. Pick the best candidate for the VP job not just someone with ovaries. Clark is way better qualified for the job than a McCaskill or Sebelius.
August 1, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dijamo's analysis:
"Pick the best candidate for the VP job not just someone with ovaries. Clark is way better qualified for the job than a McCaskill or Sebelius."
I agree. 100%.
Are we about to achieve a TPM consensus on Clark? Would we be in similar accord if the premise is that Clark and Biden are almost interchangable? One as VP, the other as Secretary of State, either way?
August 1, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wanted to make the point that picking the best candidate, while certainly the ideologically correct thing to do, may not always be the same as picking the best candidate to win the election. To illustrate my point, I submit Kathleen Sebelius and Hillary Clinton.
For example, I honestly believe Sebelius is the best candidate, without regard to gender. (I don't put much stock in Obama having to choose a "military expert" as VP; it's much more important to have someone with even temperament and good judgment, especially after 8 years of Puppeteer Cheney and George of the Bungle.)
Having said that, there is an excellent argument to be made that Clinton might be the best candidate to lock down the election. (It's not an argument I agree with, but it can be made credibly.)
Before I get jumped on here...it's not about picking a woman. I've been pushing the case for Sebelius since the Dem primary, as my past blogs will attest. She'd be a VP with executive experience and strong financial cred, who also has an even temperament and good crossover appeal.
August 1, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed WWS - I like Biden and Clark because they are both really strong, tough candidates that can confront the BS that the GOP is going to inevitably send Obama's way. He can't have an all nice guy VP. He needs surrogate that is going to be a ferocious defender and get out in front of attacks on his behalf (which both Biden & Clark have demonstrated). I don't see Sebilius (or any other talked about candidates) filling that gap. Lieberman was the oh isn't he a nice, stand-up family man VP candidate and he was a failure for Gore because he was so boring. Please let us not make that mistake again.
August 1, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just a side note - Biden went down on my list as a ferocious defender after that God-awful performance on Meet The Press against Lindsay Graham. My theory at the time was the Obama campaign put fear in him and told him not to make any assacious mistakes, so he wasn't as aggressive as usual. Two months ago I would have said Hillary, Biden, Edwards, Clark. Now that Hillary's not in contention (reportedly) and Edwards has withdrawn, Clark is now above Biden in dijamo's veepstakes lottery.
August 1, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll join that consensus, I think Clark is a great choice and pleases this Clinton fan, more than any other woman I know of now. He was my choice in 04 and can best challenge McCain's supposed military cred. Clark also has a nice connection to the Clinton's, but is his own man too.
He also looks great on TV! He has been solid on Iraq, and spoke of the errors of judgments in choosing to invade early on even as he talked us through the early video on CNN in March '03. I was opposed to the war early on, but was glued to his coverage and felt he said what needed to be said but showed his love for the military. He helped us all find a way to love the troops while we hated the war.
August 1, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've thought Clark to be a very interesting Veep choice. I just figured that last episode with Clark getting the rug pulled by the Obama campaign for saying that McCain's war service doesn't qualify him for the Presidency put the kibosh on that idea.
It is true that he's been completely off the radar recently (he said he was going to take some time off from Presidential politics). Oliver Stone fans, though, will note that Clark hasn't said anything about his plans, one way or the other.
(BTW, I disagree with your evaluation of Sebelius. But, even if I grant you that she's "boring", Obama doesn't need a "jazzy" VP candidate.)
August 1, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really like Wes Clark as well. Especially the way he handled the pummeling he got when he criticized McCain and didn't back down. He would be a huge asset for the military creds alone, but also for the foreign policy area.
As a Virginian, I really don't want Kaine to be the VP nominee. I don't see what he would bring to the ticket except being Catholic and spanish-speaking; the first of which is a negative for me and the second is not enough. I think we have a pretty good shot at the hispanic vote as it is. But also, for selfish reasons, I don't want the turd who is LtGovernor to take over and ruin what two terms of Dems have done for our state.
August 1, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
It really annoys me that "being Catholic" is a negative in some people's minds. Isn't that religious bigotry? If not, what is it?
August 1, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
it is if you worry about your ovaries. there's nothing wrong with being catholic and being in politics (or being president) but there is, in my opinion, a rational grounds for worrying about the religious beliefs of your elected politicians in a USA which has become ever more tolerant of religion dictating social policy. I'm of the state-chuch-super-seperate school of thought and until congress (i hope!) get's it's head out of its bum and wedges the two apart again (from the cozy snuggle Bush and his rubber stamps have let them have) I don't want anyone with strong, conservative religious beliefs (of any sort) in the white house and with an influence for judicial appointments. so yes, at this moment in time, with the current climate in the US, catholic is a negative.
August 1, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dee Dee - speaking as a non-practicing Catholic myself, I can say there is a big difference between pro-life publicly and privately. There are Catholic candidates that have taken a firm stance and said publicly they support Roe v. wade and fully support a woman's right to choose. John Kerry's a good example. Tim Kaine has made no such public pronouncement and I believe he's also spoken out against using public funds for embryonic stem cell research. Therefore people have a right to question whether his personal religious beliefs will have an impact on public policy.
August 1, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
dijamo, Please see my above post to Sand Through the Eye Glass regarding the stem cell comment. There are lots of Catholics in this world who manage to practice their faith without forcing others to fall in line. Tim Kaine would probably not be in front of legislation to fund stem cell research, but he wouldn't oppose it, and he certainly wouldn't use the Catholic hot button issues to appoint judges. He's been pro-life, pro-poor, pro-housing rights, pro-civil rights, etc. Again, let me reiterate: even if he's not people's first choice, unless you know a whole lot about him, don't judge him prematurely. He had to stick to certain rhetoric in order to have been elected governor of Virginia. He is a progressive.
August 1, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bigotry involves issues that have nothing to do with choice. Race, ethnicity, age, etc. I do not respect Catholic beliefs, and I wonder about people who call themselves Catholic, and who nonetheless say that they don't agree with the very thing their religion REQUIRES them to do. The hypocracy and intellectual dishonesty bothers me. That is not bigotry, because it is a disagreement based on principal.
August 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clark has always been my first choice. He brings a lot of strengths both politically and as President if, God forbid, he's ever needed in that role. I signed the online petition, and I encourage others who feel the same way to do so as well.
August 1, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I adore Clark beyond reason and love your post though I believe there to be no hope of this. Except, erm, "set to blast off on Challenger"? You lost me there.
August 1, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clark would be great--perhaps the hardest campaigner for Ned Lamont against Lieberman.
August 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
i've been saying this for weeks. it's Obama's best option, and they'd look great together.
August 1, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, a solid, pro-empire candidate. But isn't he too short?
August 1, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Far from it...
About the only sane Democrat... as opposed to all those pro-empire Democrats that voted on Kyl-Lieberman~!
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/3/2/gen_wesley_clark_weighs_presidential_bid
August 1, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love Clark and the image of Captian McCain having to salute General Clark is priceless.
August 1, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
pinch me, i am dreaming....i find myself agreeing with djamo and desidero...COOL BEANS!!
I like Wes Clark a lot! I find the idea of choosing another woman as a ruse quite insulting to all women, even those who are not hrc fans (such as myself)...i have every reason to believe obama will once again show excellent judgement by choosing a VP based upon qualifications, not gender!!
way to go gang!!
August 1, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
hell yeah thats what iam talking about damn it OBAMA/CLARK 08!!!that site hillary 2 aides put out is off tha chain!!!!
August 1, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I, too, think Clark is the best choice among current potential VP nominees.
Shuts down completely the 'anti-military' loonies.
Shuts down any 'anti-troop' talking heads.
Plays well to the centrist elements of the party.
Can be the attack dog Obama needs to remain above the fray.
Will poll well in FL, OH, MI, and PA (and may help tip a couple of western battlegrounds as well
No need to risk any DEM governorships or Senate seats with his nomination.
What more could one ask?
August 1, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
GayIthacan: may we add to your list? If so, then please add: will vet CLEAN.
August 1, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
What more could one ASK? Dear God in Heaven, if that's all you people can think of to ask for, then someone should call Obama pronto and tell him expectations have been more than sufficiently lowered. What do I want from a VP, you ask?
Grandeur.
Multi-lingual.
Nice shoes.
More than one Top Ten finish at Daytona.
And mostly.... Free sandwiches.
You people are pathetic.
August 2, 2008 4:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Multi-lingual very important -- symbolizes a step into tomorrow for an American. So that nice shoes essential.
August 2, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would gladly trade Daytona tomorrow, for a sandwich today.
August 2, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, but my hat tip is to
Tim Kaine and Kathleen Sebelius.
August 1, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's time to change your avatar. John Edwards has let us all down, most especially his wife and family.
August 3, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS -- John Edwards; tell us it aint so. The fact that you are silent tells us about the pain you have put your family through. Your wife is too smart for you. Whatever she chooses is better than you deserve.
The video queen is just counting up her coins. How did she manage to get pregnant? How did THAT happen?
John, you are an idiot and I'm glad you didn't get any closer than you did to the presidency. That "other america" that you stand for is all those SOB's who leave their wives to take care of their families. The difference is that the republicans do it with men. Is that only the difference?
It is your fault that you ruined your family-- I don't even care about the party.
August 3, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
SENATOR.BARACK OBAMA/GENERAL.WESLEY CLARK or SENATOR.JOSEPH BIDEN JR.08!!!!!!
August 1, 2008 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
August 1, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this all just fantasy talk or is Clark being vetted? Haven't seen his name come up on any short list. I think he's the most obvious best choice -- and he's so handsome too! (blush)
August 1, 2008 11:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clark, Richardson, or Schweitzer would make me very happy.
August 2, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice one, Des. Both you and Billy, offering head-fakes & Kumbaya's on the same Friday. Just when the 'nauts need molten led pumped up their bowels.
My God. The humanity.
August 2, 2008 4:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just wait for Triple Monday, hope you'll be joining us.
August 3, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Been with Wes Clark all along here!
August 6, 2008 9:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
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