Would Obama watch Zeitgeist the movie?
I watched Zeitgeist today, and am still processing ideas I saw and heard therein. I came away with a similar feeling as I've had with Michael Moore's flicks - I agree with most of what he is conveying but can't deny the editing-styled bias of someone who is selecting and emphasizing selections to make a point.
Today I came away feeling that a lot of relevant and truthful information was given to me to chew on (I've always believed 9/11 was an inside job and what was presented totally jibed and resonated.) But I couldn't help but be annoyed that after heavy theories and damning incriminations (are we REALLY on the brink of all being implanted with microchips while North America unites into a borderless blob under gov't secrecy?) we get long shots of eye-pupils and quotes by Jimi Hendrix and flashes of John Lennon and MLK Jr's faces alongside admonitions to love? What am I supposed to do with that? It's like you can't just tell me how corrupt and in collusion with evil the government is and how powerless we are and not provide any method or outlet for me to react other than eyeball shots and reminders that dissidents all come to a demise? Which is when I started thinking of Obama.
As if needing a superhero to protect me from the idea of all this harrowing conspiracy being true, I kept thinking to myself, "What would Barack think of this movie? And has he already seen it?" Not because I believe Obama will save the fate of the planet, but because out of any politician who might see that movie I believe he would give it a chance and at least consider the notions while perhaps being skeptical of the presentation of the info, or what is being omitted and what is conjecture.
The movie presented so many conspiracy themes regarding gov't that I wondered how he would take them? I get a sense that he would put credence into some of what is said (who could deny how our Federal Reserve was created and how wars and attacks bolster this system of debt and finance?) but I'm sure would be wary/skeptical of some of the Christianity-myth correlations. Even though they make a great deal of sense and are difficult to deny, it is tantamount to calling the Christian faith a complete sham, or at least much less relevant than is currently perceived.
And what about the North American Union? What does he know about that? I had never heard of it and was searching around to see that it is speculation, but according to Zeitgeist it is in full throttle and blossoming under our noses. Would Obama be complicit in the implanting of microchips? I'm having a hard time discerning the level of alarm to feel about how quickly the government might achieve this duplicity.
And especially with the wars and Obama's current MidEast visit, I'm feeling discouraged about our prospects in the larger context of long-term war. It's like he's just planning to switch us from Iraq to Afghanistan, and would that really be any better or different? The whole "war on terror" as political creation was illuminated in the film, and it just further conflicted me about our involvement. Both fleeing and staying seem highly problematic, so I can only hope that Obama's professed desire of increased diplomacy across the board can help reverse some of the mess. The whole seeking out bin Laden -aka friend of Bush- thing just seems so contrived and almost unnecessary at this point, like the cowboy ending of a cat & mouse game (we GOTTA catch him, right?!)
Whew..
Sorry if my stream-of-consciousness is convoluted, I mostly wanted other insights as to what people that saw Zeitgeist thought of it. Did it stay with you? Did it strike you as truthy? BS-y? Just curious how frustrated anyone else was with it (on all levels).
Today I came away feeling that a lot of relevant and truthful information was given to me to chew on (I've always believed 9/11 was an inside job and what was presented totally jibed and resonated.) But I couldn't help but be annoyed that after heavy theories and damning incriminations (are we REALLY on the brink of all being implanted with microchips while North America unites into a borderless blob under gov't secrecy?) we get long shots of eye-pupils and quotes by Jimi Hendrix and flashes of John Lennon and MLK Jr's faces alongside admonitions to love? What am I supposed to do with that? It's like you can't just tell me how corrupt and in collusion with evil the government is and how powerless we are and not provide any method or outlet for me to react other than eyeball shots and reminders that dissidents all come to a demise? Which is when I started thinking of Obama.
As if needing a superhero to protect me from the idea of all this harrowing conspiracy being true, I kept thinking to myself, "What would Barack think of this movie? And has he already seen it?" Not because I believe Obama will save the fate of the planet, but because out of any politician who might see that movie I believe he would give it a chance and at least consider the notions while perhaps being skeptical of the presentation of the info, or what is being omitted and what is conjecture.
The movie presented so many conspiracy themes regarding gov't that I wondered how he would take them? I get a sense that he would put credence into some of what is said (who could deny how our Federal Reserve was created and how wars and attacks bolster this system of debt and finance?) but I'm sure would be wary/skeptical of some of the Christianity-myth correlations. Even though they make a great deal of sense and are difficult to deny, it is tantamount to calling the Christian faith a complete sham, or at least much less relevant than is currently perceived.
And what about the North American Union? What does he know about that? I had never heard of it and was searching around to see that it is speculation, but according to Zeitgeist it is in full throttle and blossoming under our noses. Would Obama be complicit in the implanting of microchips? I'm having a hard time discerning the level of alarm to feel about how quickly the government might achieve this duplicity.
And especially with the wars and Obama's current MidEast visit, I'm feeling discouraged about our prospects in the larger context of long-term war. It's like he's just planning to switch us from Iraq to Afghanistan, and would that really be any better or different? The whole "war on terror" as political creation was illuminated in the film, and it just further conflicted me about our involvement. Both fleeing and staying seem highly problematic, so I can only hope that Obama's professed desire of increased diplomacy across the board can help reverse some of the mess. The whole seeking out bin Laden -aka friend of Bush- thing just seems so contrived and almost unnecessary at this point, like the cowboy ending of a cat & mouse game (we GOTTA catch him, right?!)
Whew..
Sorry if my stream-of-consciousness is convoluted, I mostly wanted other insights as to what people that saw Zeitgeist thought of it. Did it stay with you? Did it strike you as truthy? BS-y? Just curious how frustrated anyone else was with it (on all levels).
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Oakviolin, Zeitgeist was fascinating, and I think you did an excellent job of analyzing it. It is messed up and mixed up. Too many conspiracies to think about, yet too many disturbing tidbits to just dismiss altogether.
There has been a lot of excellent theological scholarship in the last decade or so that also debunks the Christianity myth. Bart D. Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" is an excellent layman's book for understanding this scholarship.
But I see the Zeitgeist movie as a new twist of an old John Birch Society myth that is also dangerous. That of "big government" conspiracies to control people for some secret agenda.
I think Jane Mayer may be more accurate in her assessment of how and why Bush and Cheney took us to the Dark Side. Stupid assholes asleep at the wheel with lame neocons conning them with idiotic ideology.
on the other hand...... I do want open inquiry into how the towers fell, why building 7 collapsed. why/IF there was never a trace of the PA and VA Planes, except holes in the ground; and why and If we had all of our air defenses down on 9-11 doing drills about hijacked planes attacking us so that we did not respond to the real thing.
And is there more oil on the north slope than in saudi arabia?
Don't ask Obama to respond to this, Ask John McCain, because he's the one hitching his wagon to the Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rummy/Powell team.
(sorry I can't chat now. have to go to work)
July 21, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks blusage- sounds like you had a similar reaction. I also appreciate the info on Ehrman's book, I will definitely look into it!
July 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I watched the movie about a year ago on the recommendation of a friend. I've passed on the link to several others. This is the mother of all conspiracy theory films, and I really wish the tone of the film had not been so aggressive. It tends to engender skepticism. I found the first section about the Jesus story as a sun god story truly fascinating. The second part I had seen in much more detail in the Loose Change film. It actually gave me chills, remembering my own disbelief at hearing that the towers had fallen so shortly after being set ablaze.
I have no idea if Obama has seen the film or would see it, but I hope he will force the release of evidence that could answer the nagging questions raised. Perhaps of all of the disturbing details, I am most curious about the security camera videos of the Pentagon. As you recall, dozens of these cameras were confiscated immediately and have never been released. Why? Surely one of them must show a passenger plane striking the Pentagon and vaporizing, right? I am deeply disturbed by the absence of damage to the Pentagon caused by the engines of the plane, at six tons each, and the bizarre fact that the Pentagon lawn was covered with gravel, obliterating any physical evidence. Again, why?
The absence of official inquiries and the silence of the mainstream media lend another sort of credence to the film, and perhaps the biggest unanswered question: what happened to building seven?
July 21, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I really wish the tone of the film had not been so aggressive. It tends to engender skepticism."
Great point - which was probably why I felt so letdown that the end just kinda dwindled to a duh...love each other...less war.... feeling. It's like if you're gonna attack so vigorously then at least try to wrap up your point in a productive direction. It felt like an empty threat hanging in the air.
July 22, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hi ov. It's great to see you posting. I didn't see Zeitgeist (I'm anti-conspiracy-theory and lukewarm on Moore), but I liked your post. FYI, Obama has comments on the record about the about the Amero:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05obama.html
I took a cab a couple of months ago with one of those scary New York cabbies that make for an interesting ride but also cause you to consider emergency exit strategies. He told me all about the evil plot by the Federal Reserve board and King Philip of Spain to cripple the country with debt and force us to join the NAU and adopt the Amero. There's also supposed to be some 12-lane Nafta superhighway from Canada to Mexico associated with the plan. Not sure I fully understood the plot, but it sounds cool. Sign me up.
July 21, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Genghis, good to see you too! I'm usually content to sit back and spectate here, but when it's late at night and you've got conspiracy theories and paranoia at gov't running through your brain, what better place to vent? ;)
And yea, think of all the jobs the Amero-expressway would bring?
PS, sorry to say I missed my local supa-dupa 7/19 fundraiser, but I hope fun was had and funds were made!
July 22, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I believe the truth will out as regards the events of 9/11. Even FEMA's report of the WTC towers collapse(s) notes that their best effort could not explain why the steel "core" of the towers weren't left standing in a 'pancake collapse'. Normally "cutter charges" are used to cut a 45 degree angle through the central backbone beams in a controlled demolition. All of the firefighters at the scene described multiple explosions, and photos of the wreckage show steel girders protruding from the pile -- cut and burnt at a 45 degree angle. And of course a 'pancake collapse' would not allow for the 110th floor to reach the first in eleven seconds -- nearly the speed of freefall.
What got me looking at the physical evidence in the first place tho was the tail of the tape -- the stock market. Put options on American Airlines stock had 1100% increase in volume for the three days before 9/11. Someone made a lot of money on it, and interestingly AA's charts have been 'adjusted' since. The names of those who placed those trades were never released, just as the Virginia DOT video that should've shown the 757 knocking over lightposts on its way to the pentagon was confiscated and never released either. And then of course there's the problem of the fourteen-foot-tall stainless steel engines that should have been found at the pentagon, where NO parts of a 757 were ever found or photographed.
The list is longer, but the physical evidence shows that the official story is rather not possible. Look for yourselves, draw your own conclusions. Its not pretty.
I though zeitgeist was mostly silly, and his reach exceeds his grasp as regards the ancient traditions. My favorite of the 9/11 documentaries was the original "9/11 mysteries." Alex Jones' movies are okay but usually end up being an hour or so longer than necessary, and he really loses me when he starts doing the "nut with a bullhorn" routine.
I hate bringin this stuff up on a political blog, but if someone else does i do feel the need to comment on it.
July 21, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
peaceMF, the steel beams in those photos look like that because they were cut (with a blow torch iirc) long after the collapse by workers on site. Plenty of wreckage up to and including the engine was found at the Pentagon, and no less than 100+ eyewitnesses saw the plane fly by and/or hit the Pentagon.
Part 1 of Zeitgeist gets historical facts wrong and is based mostly on the books of Acharya S aka Dorothy Massey, which herself cites authors whose claims cannot be proven and sources cannot be found.
http://ct.grenme.com/index.php/Zeitgeist_Part_I
This site does an excellent job at debunking the claims made in the first part. For part 2, you can find loads of material available on debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories. Basically, while there might be flaws or holes in the "official explanation" (which is really the combined work of thousands of experts), there is no affirmative proof so far for the controlled demolition theory. I haven't looked very heavily into part 3 but I doubt it has any more credibility than the first two.
That being said, I loved the first part of the intro to the film, which was very spooky and evocative. Unfortunately, I felt let down and manipulated by the content. Like a lot of Alex Jones movies, it uses shock images and footage of violence and brutality for no other purpose than getting an emotional reaction out of you.
I'm reasonably informed about 9/11 conspiracies so unless you go deep into the physics of it I can explain building 7, Atta's passport and a lot of the other common assertions that are made in films like Loose Change and Zeitgeist.
July 21, 2008 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best forensic analysis of some 9/11 theories (with computer graphics).
Come on guys. GWB, Cheney and the rest might be sneaky but even they are not that smart.
Check it out:
Perdue Physics and Engineering Analysis of the WTC attack shown with CG Animation:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5e3_1181785646
Here is another of the Pentagon attack - done by Integrated Consultants - a forensic analysis company:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhf4BuUP_zQ
You guys really need to check these out and save the links to post to any of those 9/11 truthers out there. More rational minds prevail.
July 22, 2008 12:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Conspiracy theorists are generally not interested in rational thought.
GWB is both a complete moron and diabolical genius at the same time. Rational, yes?
July 22, 2008 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Additionally to pull off 9/11 (and keep it secret) would have taken 100's of people. Are we to believe that not a single one of them has had a crisis of conscience and said something? Too far fetched for me to believe.
July 22, 2008 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama, according to the punditocracy, has more in common with the Woody Allen movie Zelig. Zelig would take on the characteristics of anyone he was around. Obama supposedly has the power to make whomever he's around believe he's like them.
Of course, this is nonsense, as Obama is obviously exactly like me.
July 22, 2008 2:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
believe what you want, the facts remain. your "debunkers" have since been proven wrong, you might wanna keep up if you consider yourself "reasonably informed." time will tell.
July 22, 2008 4:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
peaceMF if you are so certain that the debunkers have been proven wrong it should be easy for you to lay out, in your own words, the facts and evidence you believe make the case for the theory of controlled demolition and a missile hitting the Pentagon. Don't link me to an article or a video, tell me in your own words.
July 22, 2008 5:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Conspiracy theorist is kind of a misleading name because they actually have no complete theory supported by evidence. They basically just try their best to poke holes in the "official story" and then cue ominous music.
July 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
trash trash trash trash trash....
seriously. 5min of research will show you how much crap is in this movie. It would be one thing if you knew any of the sources or they had some bit of credibility.
it's disarming people even believe this stuff... noble cause but lost in all the mess...
check it out for yourself.
www.falsezeitgeist.com
August 23, 2009 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink