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Talking Bullshit: We the People?
As I sit through the dog days of summer watching with disdain as one horrid VP candidate after another is floated out - Ann Veneman, Tim Kaine, Chuck Hagel, Sam Nunn - I'm comforted by the realization that it's not my choice - it's Obama's. That's right, the Constitution gives We the People all sorts of powers, but when it comes to the choice of VP, well, that's the party candidate's perogative, and we should all just butt out, espeacially followers of that other divisive candidate who should have dropped out long before.
Doesn't matter if the proposed VP candidate is a card-carrying Republican, brought daiquiris on the sly to George W. Bush, helped Cheney taser a suspected terrorist or two, favors mandatory baptism for all first graders - it's Obama's choice. This is one of the great freedoms our Constitution allows us - to be completely free of responsibility for picking the person that's a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I'm not so sure about a woman's right to choose - seems like a big responsibility for one person to take - but a presumed nominee's right to choose - that's certainly sacred. So I urge all of you folks chomping at the bit to give your opinion - it's one thing for you to evaluate, and a little chit-chat won't hurt, but please stay behind the cordon and keep your silence during the actual vetting, because after all, We the People need to step back sometime. And after the last 8 years we should be pretty good at it.
Comments (22)
Shakesville has more than a few specifics on Kaine, BTW.
July 29, 2008 6:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link, Desidero. Some of the comments from Virginians were pretty unflattering.
I don't know if anyone's picked up on the breakdowns of that `likely` voter poll. The strongest feature of that was that Obama's having trouble still with older women.
Perhaps over the next month it's going to gradually seem to Obama and his advisors that he actually needs Hillary Clinton to have any chance of winning the election. It'll be interesting to see if he himself will be able to come to terms with that & bow to it.
July 29, 2008 8:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure that the point was ever to win the general election. Taking over the Democratic Party is quite an accomplishment in itself. If he wins this year, fine. If not, he still has the Party, and the nomination is his to lose in 2012. If he doesn't pick Clinton, that's the reason.
July 29, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, losers are pretty persona non grata in the Democratic Party. Had Gore actually run a year ago, people would have hated him.
July 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gore and Kerry didn't have all of the built in excuses for losing the general that Obama has.
July 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
If he loses this year I don't think he can come back in 4. He only gets one chance to bullshit his way into the presidency. The only way someone can be all things to all people is if they haven't done anything significant. Now that he's told us what he can do 4 years from now people will expect him to have at least a little bit done it.
If he has no significant legislative accomplishments in 4 years he loses for having done nothing. If he has significant legislative accomplishments he will have had to take real positions on controversial issues. Some people will agree with those stands and others will disagree. He will no longer be the blank screen that people can project their views onto.
Then there's the game he played to win the nomination. It was a surprise, a stealth play. That only works once. No candidate will ever let another rack up low turn out caucus delegates with out competing.
If he doesn't win with his game plan this year he'll have to earn it and that will take at least 8 if not 12 or more years.
July 30, 2008 2:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's going to lose. Axelrod always loses the first time out.
July 30, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
You'd rather repeal the 12th amendment and have whoever comes in second be the VP?
That's didn't work out too well.
July 29, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nor did having the Supreme Court decide the election. Troubles from a frail young democracy.
July 29, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The 12th doesn't say that a Presidential candidate gets to pick the VP candidate he runs with does it? Maybe I missed it, but I thought the fact that Obama was going to select the VP for us was the point Des was making. I wonder exactly how that tradition started.
July 29, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Adlai Stevenson left it up to the convention, McGovern chose his but there were several floor nominations (bet he wishes they forced it on him now)
July 29, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given how few primaries there were in 1956, this wasn't any more democratic than what goes on now in the selection of a Vice-President.
July 29, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Before the 12th amendment, whoever came in 2nd place in the Presidential election became Vice-President, thus giving the people some kind of indirect say in who was Vice-President. After the 12th, the Electoral College voted for the President and Vice-President separately (to avoid oddities such as ties or an Obama-McCain administration).
Therefore, the 12th amendment, IMO, is one of a number of factors that leads to the Presidential nominees picking their Vice-Presidential nominees, some of the other factors being
July 29, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys watch too much teevee.
July 29, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is America.
There's no such thing as too much TV.
July 29, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
The most insightful comment on TPM...evuh!!!
July 30, 2008 2:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
We have that luxury because guys like you are out working your ass off to make sure the third in line will be a Democrat.
July 29, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to LOL at that.
July 29, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, well, some of us think We the People didn't actually nominate the nominee for president, either. With that in mind, I really don't give a shit who Obama picks for VP, as I'm sure it'll be a stellar decision.
July 29, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL back at that.
July 29, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
FYI, another interesting link from Raising Kaine, a Virginia progressive group that used to support Kaine.
July 30, 2008 2:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, there is no such thing as a "progressive" group in Virginia.
July 30, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
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