« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »
Obama at the Berlin Olympic Stadium
I wasn't too keen on Obama speaking at Brandenburg for several reasons (including that pesky Senate subcommittee), but Ann Arbor had a suggestion that made sense on a number of levels: Obama should speak at Berlin's Olympic Stadium.
Strengths? Jesse Owens (makes Germany feel proud, how far it's come, message of equality), timed with China Olympics (I'm not naïve enough to think he'll talk tough about human rights, but hey, the parallel's there, human spirit overriding the dictates of repressive governments), capacity 72,000 and Obama's comfortable in stadiums.
Comments? Complaints? Comforters? (That's our new wing of the Democratic Party, those simply seeking a Comfort Zone, similar to Slack for those disenfranchised Yahweh II'ans - possibly inspired by Hillary's "Can we get you a pillow?" we wholeheartedly respond, "Yes You Can!" We're not really into all-inclusion, but if we're comfortable with you being here, yes you can stay too!)
Comments (68)
Got my vote. One condition. This the theme song he comes out to.
And he better be grooving. LCD.
http://www.imeem.com/urbn/music/R05Zw0IV/lcd_soundsystem_north_american_scum/
Think of it, 72,000 lifting off to this.
Ark Ark! Mars Attacks!
July 11, 2008 5:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa -- speaking where Hitler spoke? That's an insanely terrible idea. No way.
(But quinn esq is right on about the theme music.)
July 11, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
How did I miss this suggestion earlier? This is the most fab idea ever!!!!!!
"But don't blame the Canadians!"
July 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Might be difficult to fill it and it'll look pants if he can't. the gate idea was good because it wasn't an enclosed area.
Just have to see how it goes..
July 11, 2008 6:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know how proud Germans will really be if they're reminded of the 1936 Olympics, and I'm pretty confident that *Americans* don't want to see Obama address something that looks like a political rally in another country. It would confirm that chocolate-drinking Euroliberals are his real constituency.
Smaller venue, by all means.
July 11, 2008 7:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Plan B. Hold rally in PARIS instead. Fill speech with insults to the French. Stand firm in face of inevitable torrent of tomatoes (fresh), stale pastries (imported.) (No real risk of physical harm here as French don't play baseball.) Then wave hand at them (in dismissive manner, natch), big "I can kick ALL your asses" smile... walk off laughing. Guaranteed 5 pt poll bump.
July 11, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a bit risky don't you think. Obama might get it in his head to give one of his "responsibility" talks and suggest that 5 weeks of vacation a year was a bit too much. You know how attached the French are to their vacation time. He might spark a riot.
July 11, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
No to the stadium. Is Germany supposed to foot the bill for security for a 72,000-seat stadium just because a black American presidential candidate who needs extra Secret Service protection wants to hold a massive PR stunt? A guy who used Auschwitz and Buchenwald to boost his patriotic cred in the States? F*ck th*t sh*t.
July 11, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was trying to reach across the aisle, Blow, vent my negativity in a positive direction. I didn't even mention Leni Riefenstahl, did I?
July 11, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
That was big of you Des.
July 11, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I get the propaganda parallel of using the stadium, Des, but I'm just so grossed out by that I can't help it.
July 11, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Riefenstahl not mentioned by Des at 9:59.
Riefenstahl mentioned by Billy (below) at..... ummmm... yeah.
How convenient.
July 11, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
But it does almost conclusively prove that they're not the same person.
July 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yah, I know. It just amused me. D & B were joking about O's "convenience" earlier - thus, my crack. Then the two plunk down in the Berlin set, a million memories & possible connections, and at precisely the moment one says "Not Rief..." the other says, "Hey... Rief!" Could just be a mind-meld. (Donno which one is Spock.) Apologies for any implication that one of them is not "real." Though I stand on my case that I created Des. Though he's 'bout worn my Babelfish page out.
July 11, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not exactly an obscure reference and Des's post wasn't exactly subtle. That said, I think Des is the right half of the brain and Billy the left, both plunked in a skull with a grumpy face. Smile, guys -- does anything in politics excite you, motivate you?
July 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I notice in the front page thread on the latest Newsweek poll that your age group is going off on the "old" people. The chamber blames the "old" people for the poll finding about half the electorate thinks Obama flip-flops for political gain. Most of them are shaking their heads sadly over that amazing fact. So apparently there is an age threshold beyond which you are unable to see the integrity and consistency of the candidate. I plead age as the cause of my lack of excitement about politics. I gave up on politics a while back. I'm into education and culture as things worth getting excited about now. Except for Hillary. She excites me. That would have been one hell of a Presidency.
July 11, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you imagine the decibel level of the primal scream that would emanate from the chamber if Hillary were the nominee and planned a speech at the Brandenburg Gate?
July 12, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
There'll always be generational divides over candidate preference. But, surely enough people from all across the age spectrum were vested in Obama or he wouldn't be the nominee. That aside, who do you think will be better for education and culture? An imperfect Democrat, or a perfect Republican?
July 12, 2008 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure using a stadium in Germany would be convenient. Then again, some latter-day Riefenstahl may be up to capturing the zeitgeist. Triumph of convenience. All tickets punched with a single vote. The latest ticket is a nifty one, if I understand the consensus in the chamber. We can get our civil rights ticket punched and denounce Jesse Jackson and other leaders from that era at the same time. Convenience piled upon convenience. Who needs Clinton on the ticket? McCain doesn't have a chance.
July 11, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Points to Billy for merging my 2 (or 3?) points. Triumph of Convenience, that's one to take to the market or at least for a nap.
July 11, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
This would be like pee-ing in the neighbors pool at their BBQ. Personally expedient, yes. I doubt the Germans will feel very nostalgic about the event. Although some may be into a freaky...nevermind.
The Brandenburg Gate is symbolic on an international scale. It would have the biggest bang for the effort. Covers all bases: foreign policy, national and international leadership, historical "fulcrum," announces the emergence of a new world era...etc
July 11, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's hard to see why Obama belongs at Brandenburg. But at Olympics Stadium he can represent change both in America and Germany. Germans are rather ashamed of their past but review it all the time - quite a number of Hitler movies, etc. Something that doesn't project Germany as racists or Old Europe but acknowledeges how far they've come in representing the best of European values is likely to be appreciated.
July 11, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey how about we not jump every time a conservative complains about something? I say Obama ought to make the speech wherever he wants. Unless Merkel can cite some law that says it's illegal or unsafe then she ought to stop sucking up to President 23% and get back to ruining Germany's government. What's she gonna do? Refuse the next president of the United States a visa?
July 11, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't need Merkel to tell me that Brandenburg seems a bit arrogant and presumptious at this point - he's not state leader. Whereas similar to the Olympics, he certainly has won a number of his events. Oh well, there is no joy in Mudville.
July 11, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, now this appears to be the correct answer to me--arrogant and presumptuous, yes that rings right with me. Doncha think they've had enough of the blustering Reagan/JFK wannabe recreations over there of late? American leader coming over to iconographically speechify just doesn't play as well anymore...I think of Mike Myers old Dieter character from Saturday Night Live....it has grown tiresome. I think he's in danger of bursting his humbler gentler magic over there by doing that, despite the fact that some in the under 21 crowd might think it kewl and line up for tickets. If there ever truly was a time for humbler foreign appearances....less is more.
July 12, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
then afterwards they can have a spaghetti potluck at auschwitz
July 11, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, what happened to your avatar? I noticed yesterday it was having a seizure or something. Now it's gone. Wiped out by an asteroid?
July 11, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I changed it for a joke and now I get a mysql error whenever I try reverting. C'est la vie at TPM!
July 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
With all that flipping around, your place is practically glowing on the grid.
July 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Auschwitz isn't even in Germany,...and isn't sauerkraut and sauasages a little more appropriate? Some of these comments are bogus,...it's as if the brandenburg gate is only reserved for really important stuff,...c'mon,...they do all sorts of rallies there all the time.
July 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Naturally, I meant Buchenwald.
July 11, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
They = the Germans.
July 11, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's inappropriate for Obama, McBush, or anyone else to make a campaign speech in a foreign country. There are many, many people here in the States that would love to see the Senator in person who haven't had the opportunity. He should focus on his constituency here first. I don't like this one bit.
July 11, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are lots of Americans living/working in Europe. I think part of the justification for such a speech is outreach to the expats.
July 11, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's pretty thin.
July 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yet, we had a primary just for Democrats Abroad. Did that bother you, too?
July 11, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's very intellectually disingenuous. You're comparing apples to oranges, my friend. The primary is for American citizens. His speech in Germany is not being directed at Americans and you know it.
July 11, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Americans are exactly the audience for this speach. It is all those eyes watching an American leader being cheered instead of jeered on the evening news that is the iontended audience. Few and far between are the voters who wish for us to be reviled.
July 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm... "Few & far between?" I donno, Larry. How far is it from Bush to Cheney?
July 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Close enough for a reach-arround?
July 11, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
That should read "is not being directed ONLY at Americans". Edit feature please. :)
July 11, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is being directed at Americans. That is the whole purpose of the trip; to let American voters see him expounding on foreign affairs, and present a more rational style of American leadership to the world. America will be watching it all on TV.
He could not afford to purchase the amount of domestic news coverage that such an event will garner for him.
Let the man run his campaign. His plan to win the nomination worked, against long odds. No need for all of the nervous nellie amateur campaign managers to keep wetting their knickers every time he tries something innovative.
July 11, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
As usual, numbnuts misses the point completely.
July 11, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy Glad, the guardian of American English chimes in. How dare anyone use English that Billy does not approve of. Billy builds a wall around the language to keep English words out of the English language.
He is Tom Tancredo on Steroids.
Called him Captain Xenophobia.
July 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
As usual Billy is mistaken.
July 11, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Billy is just curious to know if the use of "arse" is an affectation.
July 11, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Afectation is in the eye of the beholder.
July 12, 2008 1:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think he should be speaking overseas at all, especially at sites guaranteed to raise the hackles and send thrills up legs of pundits. It is too damned contrived like the ending of Godfather III - it would have been cheaper and more effective if Coppola had the movie ushers just walk down aisles and hit the viewers in the head with their flashlights - "get it? get it??"
July 11, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
You lack the requisite hubris to relate to his need to go to Berlin and make a speech.
July 11, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I know it never hurts to state the obvious for the oblivious but even El Greco would sneer at this one.
July 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hubris". Wow. Billy Glad, the man who just finished standing up for "American English", and striving to keep any furrin sounding words out, just said: "Hubris". Poor befuddled Billy, The Tom Tancredo of the language minute men.
Now Billy will have to deport himself.
July 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
The historic Brandenburg Gate.
Another time, another Jesse.
July 11, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not so spooked by the any particular historic images here - Berlin speeches, big stadium, "Germans." Yes, it's an old film, burnt into the brain - and frightening.
But change even one character in a well-known film/painting, and the whole thing shifts, the old painting cracks. The dynamic of what NEW thing then emerges is fairly wide open to be shaped, I think. Question is, where would Obama take it?
He's got lots of "pieces in motion" to work with, that's for sure. 1st, I hear any crowds he's gonna see in Europe will be pretty excited, youthful, multi-colored, multi-national. 2nd, Sorry Southern dudes, but a lot of Europeans feel BUSH & co. have been behaving more like that nasty little German guy from the old films than a JFK. Which gives Obama a "liberator" vibe, or at least, someone who's walking the Imperial-Power-Turned-Mean-Drunk home for a break. 3rd, He's black - as are more and more Europeans. So we get JFK vibes and Jesse Owens, and the whole new Europe that is emerging.
Change those 3 things, the old film gets shifted. I may not want to plunk Obama down in a stadium, but the vibe in Europe could be fairly wild. Obama-mania likely. But what he DOES with that energy, how he channels that chemical reaction, is the question.
If anything, the stadium scene I think he has to carefully control (to avoid the historic "Big German Crowd Chanting" thing), is the one in Denver. Seaton (amongst others) will definitely be coming to it with the 1930's-40's film in mind.
July 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most of those who are claiming to be spooked by the notion just happen to be the same bunch that have been against Obama all along. It is just another one of their faux tremble fests to provide another avenue for them to continue trying to undermine his campaign.
July 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're an idiot.
July 11, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!
July 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ugh, that's a horrible, horrible Idea. Obama should not be emulating Hitler in anyway. In my mind the 1936 Olympics are all about Hitler and the Nazis. I don't know how the Germans feel about it
July 11, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Germans feel that Delmoi is "an idiot".
July 11, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
In my mind the 1936 olympics are about a black man staling the show from a bunch of white supremicists. But the point is moot because the campaign is not considering taking Des's advice. They are considering the Brandenburg Gate as a venue.
July 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a former Berlin resident (I studied there), American and Obama supporter, I think Barack's speaking at the Brandenburger Tor is a better idea!
It would be Kennedy-esque and capture not only the imagination of the Germans witnessing it in person but also (and more importantly) that of US voters viewing online or on TV.
A brilliant move.
July 11, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kennedy didn't speak at the Brandenburg Gate, but at the Rathaus Schöneberg in West Berlin.
July 11, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
ami, what's that concert hall with the funny shape called?
July 11, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
As an obamanoid who is primarily concerned with FP, the Brandenberg Gate speech idea makes me cringe as being over the top. The Olympic stadium notion is plain crazy as certain circles would see it as proof positive of Obama's islamofascist sympathies.
At this point, I'm also keeping my fingers crossed that Obama doesn't make a speech to the Knesset.
For those who care about such things, Obama's positives far outweigh his negatives all over the world with the exception of a handful of countries so I wonder why he's bothering to do this trip at all.
Sure he'll get American teevee time but the sniping, snarking and parsing by DLC concern trolls and political/media enemies will get equal time and then some. McCain was subject to some minor-league tutting for going to Canada, Columbia and Mexico so I expect the much higher profile Obama tour will be accompanied by a cacaphony of criticism.
Obama should make his world debut before the UN General Assembly, then do tours of foreign capitols. As president, he can set the agenda in a way he can't as a candidate.
By all means, Obama should go to our military bases in the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan and Turkey. Leave the atmospherics of speeches accompanied by handshakes and state dinners with Merkel, Brown, Sarkozy, Olmert, the puppet King of Jordan et al for the future when he actually has some clout and the time to use it.
July 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You've pretty much captured my sentiment.
The general idea of the tour is great, but as a candidate I think public appearances should mostly be restricted to smaller venues like press conferences. I think one bigger speech could go over well if handled properly, though the Brandenburg Gate is a notch or two too big symbolically in my mind for that. Let the big events for an international stage happen when he's President -- what's the rush?
There's a German saying which applies well here, "dein Pulver nicht gleich verschiessen," which basically translates as "don't use up all your gunpowder right at the start."
July 11, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. And when he goes to the bases, he should wear a flack jacket, tight jeans and big sun glasses, and his bodyguards should be big black men with beards, shaved heads, little machine pistols and big shotguns. Or maybe one bodyguard should be a woman. Maybe she should sing right before Obama speaks. Just to get the crowd crazy.
http://www.imeem.com/eamane/video/HqLiuE-P/mary_j_blige_u2_mary_j_blige_u2_one_music_video/
Courtesy the quinn.
July 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is just silly talk, and asking that he shape his campaign based on what those who do not support him might say.
The man has a history of delivering very impressive speeches before large audiences. What the hell do you expect he is going to be talking about.
He will deliver a speech on International cooperation and mutual respect, coupled with the need for the EU and the USA to work in greater harmony to tackle all the great challenges now facing us.
How the hell will that being seen and heard as something scary.
What should he do, lock himself in a glass case, for the remainder of the election season, and we can all toss powdered sugar at him.
What next; will have to get every one to approve of which brand of toothpaste he must use.
July 11, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
The man has a history of delivering very impressive speeches before large audiences.
He will deliver a speech on International cooperation and mutual respect, coupled with the need for the EU and the USA to work in greater harmony to tackle all the great challenges now facing us.
How the hell will that be seen and heard as something scary.
July 11, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Diego UK above. Who knows how large a crowd he could draw in Germany? 70,000 is pretty presumptuous and if nowhere near that turned out it would look ridiculous. I Like the Brandenburg Gate.
July 11, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Post a Comment