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Gotalife Says That Democrats Should Have Nominated Senator Clinton Because There Are No Muslims In Her Family. Is That Your Kind Of America?

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It is not my kind of America.  Should Gotalife's hate speech be even allowed?

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/07/meet-his-brother.php


Comments (67)

Gotalife needs to be ridiculed, not taken seriously.

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What do you think I am doing. Turning on a bright light is a sure way to make a cockroach scurry.

I think we should avoid blog entries that refer to other TPMers in a negative light. This is at least the 3rd one in about 48 hours. Of all of them, this is the TPMer I'm least concerned about, but I just think it should be avoided as general practice.

Also, as The Old Grouch says, or in a similar vein at least, gotalife should be ignored, not reinforced. (I'm quite certain that he'll find your rant against him quite reinforcing.)

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I cited what Gotalife said, and even linked to what he said. You think I am the one casting Gotalife "in a negative light" by pointing to his own words. He said them, not me. What he said is clearly hate speech, so I do not understand why he should be treated as anything other than the hate spewing merchant of intolerance and religious bigotry that he is.

Quoting gotalife verbatim is pretty much the same thing as casting him in a negative light, no?

But seriously, it's quite obvious from you calling it "hate speech" (and I'm not saying that it wasn't), that you are casting him in a negative light.

…so I do not understand why he should be treated as anything other than the hate spewing merchant of intolerance and religious bigotry that he is.

He shouldn't. That's exactly how he should be treated. That's exactly what The Old Grouch and I are advocating, albeit through slightly different tactics. Personally, I think he thrives on criticism, so I think the best way to deal with him is to ignore him.

Also, my concern is larger than just your post. The number of personal attacks in blogs has increased significantly lately, and that's a worrisome trend. What's even more worrisome is when they get a large number of recs, although I know Alex was of the opinion that many of those were from the same person. (For example, I suppose, someone in a computer lab where there might be 100 computers in a single room.)

Ben, you have enough with Workerbee as part of your clique.

Lets use the whole quote, shall we:

"There are no Muslims or radical spiritual advisers in her family and she is the same candidate you know from the primary."

Did I mention she voted NO on FISA. She is well known in the world and did not need to make a trip.

Anyhoo, the gop will jump all over his Muslim ties after the convention.

You're so misinformed.

What of the religious sect "The Family" she belongs to?

She also voted for AUMF and its most heinous relative Kyl-Lieberman.

Sorry, that's a seriously stupid comment about why Clinton is better.

Both of the above make her by far worse in my eyes.

Anyone who voted for K-L needs to go.

You make a very fundamental error here - that all Muslims are by definition bad. That is prejudice and ignorance of the most destructive kind. It is part of the reason this world is at war. We fight over oil and isms.

If you truly believe what you are saying, then you are sadly misguided. If not, then you are a provocateur trying to stir up trouble and get attention.

If the former, please learn tolerance and begin to look at things with a range of emotion and consideration instead of black and white absolutism.

If the latter, then I hope you enjoyed yourself.

Sad, but TPM talk is quickly becoming the home of trolls, spammers and racist fools like this.

Would it kill someone to sweep the trash out once in a while??

I'm still of the opinion that in this case, the best way to "sweep the trash out" is to ignore it. That won't necessarily work for all trolls (and this is one of the few times where I find no problem with that label), but I really think this gotalife poster thrives on attention. Positive, negative, whatever. I think it likes all of that stuff.

Wow, you are a shrink that looked inside my mind.

Actually , I am just enjoying my freedom of speech before he votes yes to take that too.

Reposting here for gotalife since he didn't reply on cited thread.

Just so I can fully understand the issue, will you please provide a factual, comprehensive listing of why being a Muslim is so horrible?

And not just as it relates to a very small group of terrorists who abuse the actual tenets of their religion. (i.e. The KKK call themselves 'Christians' and so did Timothy McVey!)

Within every 'group' - i.e. religious fanatics or bowling team members or labor organizations or brunettes - there are those who choose to perform and condone horrific acts.

So, get that list to us ASAP - and oh, by the way - since it appears that you are male, does that mean that you share the same traits as Hitler, Bundy and Cheney?

GOTALIFE - WHERE'S YOUR FACTUAL, COMPREHENSIVE RESPONSE? STILL WAITING.

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It's not a horrible thing. It's just different than most people. Just like Obama's name is different. And his race is different. All those differences start adding up and they get uncomfortable. So they vote for the other guy.

I won't. You won't. But some will. Maybe a lot will. Maybe enough will. Or do you not think that's the case?

Agree. But I want gotalife to respond to my query as requested. If he insists on posting this blather, then he needs to be held responsible for supporting the content.

Ben,

You've had a violent day already.

Why don't you take that walk.

Ok suggestion Gotalife, rather than coming up with wacko posts against Obama and praying for a miracle that isn't going to happen, Clinton getting the nod in Denver. Please post a thoughtful piece as to why you'll be voting for McCain based on issues. Thanks!

Would that not require actual thought on his part?

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Just out of curiosity, do you not think this will be an issue? Not for anyone who reads this, but for the campaign as a whole.

It's easy to assume that because everyone who reads a left-slanted site wouldn't hold religion against a candidate that no one will. But do you really think that's the case? That Obama having a relative who has converted to Islam won't be mentioned? And if it is mentioned, do you not think it will play a role in the election? Do you think as a whole the country is that enlightened?

With the country in the mess it is - right track/wrong track at 20/80, gas at 4 bucks and everyone wincing at the checkout, the repubs running a frail, befuddled man -- we should be winning this thing by 30. It's barely 6.

So, while gotalife may be trying to point out what he considers our error in nominating Obama, it doesn't underscore the fact that there are inherent problems here. Or do you not think there's an issue?

Only if the American electorate are no longer scared of the Muslims we are at war with.

I think Clinton would have a huge lead by now and would win the general easily just like President Clinton said.

I'm confused why we're getting caught up in 'what-ifs', let alone huge, sweeping and most likely incorrect 'what-ifs'. Move on and grow up. The primary is over.

News Flash! We aren't at war with Obama's family. Just in case you hadn't noticed.

I think the vast majority of people that would be bothered by this are already part of the Republican base.

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Obama is a Christian. Hillery Clinton is a Christian. John McCain is a Christian.

Why is that a problem for only Obama. What type of America do you believe in. Is it the same one as the founders, or is it the same one as Gotalife, David Duke, and all those Aryan Nation creeps?

Gotalife, like the rest of us enjoys a certain "freedom of speech." (Perhaps he enjoys it a bit too much, IMHO.)

I don't know that I would characterize what he said as "hate speech" exactly, although one can definitely call it "hateful."

Obama's brother is entitled to his religious beliefs and as is Sen. Obama, who is not responsible for, nor should he be held accountable for his brother's beliefs.

I vehemently disagree that this creates some kind of problem for Obama that undermines his campaign. Only in the small minds of people like Gotalife or MSA3, will this become an issue because it goes right to the heart of what we say we believe: freedom OF religion, freedom OF association, and freedom OF speech.

If the GOP and McCain and voters like Gotalife are "all over this" let us allow them to expose themselves for what they are: bigots. Let them vote for McCain. And let them stew in their juices when Obama is sworn in.

Read what msa3 wrote again. I do not get the impression that s/he finds it a problem per se, but is merely concerned that others will. I can understand that concern, even if I think it is misplaced. (I also reject the idea that being concerned makes one a concern troll, not that you implied that.)

yeah,

concern,concern, concern!

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The problem is that Gotalife is demonizing anyone who is a Muslim, and he is also demonizing anyone who happens to have a member of their family who is a Muslim. That is hate speech.

Gotalife is making the case that the reason Senator Clinton should have been nominated is because her family is not tainted by having any Muslims in her family. That is right out of Senator McCarthy's playbook. It is labeling American Citizens, who are Muslims as being Un-American, and anyone who has any family association with Muslims as being Un-American. That is absolutely Hate Speech.

It's starting to scare me that I can't remember one of your posts that I did not rec'd and agree with your stance.

I, too, believe that as other ignorant blowhards do, his post is 'demonizing Muslims'.

I'm not sure if his true motivation is a misguided attempt to tout HRC; slam Obama or to denigrate all Muslims.

However, it doesn't matter what the reason - it's sick and wrong.

Thanks for post. rec'd.

And to that end, gotalife, if we are holding people accountable for their siblings' actions, does that mean we can hold Hillary accountable for the dirty scumbag Hugh Rodham? I'm just sayin' . . .

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Them there's fightin' words, Jade. I guess I should have ended my post with OBAMA RULES!! Maybe that would show I have an expansive mind.

Will it be a signature issue? No. Will McCain bring it up? No. But will friends talk to friends about it? I think so. Will it add to an overall skepticism? I don't know. Maybe.

There's just something I can't understand -- when we are with the public on almost every issue -- why isn't there a bigger lead? The only thing I can come up with is that there is something else going on. Maybe it's the Bradley effect. Maybe it's racism. Maybe it's his newness. But what I do know is that this lead should be bigger, and we need to figure out why it isn't.

If we can't figure it out, then we're going to be the ones stewing in November.

. . . whereas if we do figure it out, we can do what? That we're not already doing?

I'm not seeing how this debate would be constructive. It's probably a combination of a lot of things -- newness, racism, people not paying close attention in the summer. But Obama is the nominee. The debates of March and April no longer interest me.

And I'm sure I'll get dinged for this, but I think Ben is right about hate speech. It's probably better to counter it, if necessary, on the original thread rather than give it a new lease on life by creating a new thread that may actually get more recs and last longer.

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I think we can, when we talk to our freinds and neighbors, turn down our rhetoric. Acknowledge their concerns rather than demonize them for it. And then play up his strengths. In our conversations, let them know they are not bad people for having worries about him, but then just talking about the differences between his plan for the country and McCain's. Stop talking about change and start talking about Obama like he's a regular guy. let them here from at least one person that while he might be differetnt, you don't find those things scary.

Politics this year is retail. If we're going to win it's not going to be through his speeches, it's going to be from us, a freind at a time, laying the seeds of trust. Us making the case to reinforce what he says. That's what I think we can do.

Sure. Good advice, on the whole. But it's always good advice. I'd be doing all those things if our nominee were the young Jimmy Stewart.

Which he just about is.

Indeed, why isn't the lead a larger margin by far? Perhaps, more than religion or race, it is the known v. the risky. Which in some ways can be considered generational. I'm concerned that many who actually prefer Obama are still afraid to put him in the office of President.

Close race? Perhaps, in part, it's due to the fact that people get only the headlines and "talking points" from the media, or they get confusing and contradictory blather that sticks in their minds because they, unlike people here, aren't paying close attention. Small words have more effect than long speeches, however brilliant or hopeful.

Flip flopper,
muslim,
liberal,
Rev. Wright.

War hero,
maverick,
straight talker,
POW...
did I mention war hero?

This is all some people hear. It's not that they are bad people by nature, but that they don't live in a world of critical thinking, but in a world of other focus - whatever seems important to them. It might be raising their kids, golfing or duck hunting or just getting through a long day of work.

Our media doesn't do a very good job of telling people what they need to hear in order to make critical judgments. In most cases, these days, they try to make those judgments for them, and depending on who you watch - O'Reilly/Hannity? Olberman? - your view has been determined for you if you don't have the information or tools to research or think for yourself.

This is a close campaign now because most people still buy the old McCain myth - the maverick and the straight talker. They get that from McCain and from the media, which has not yet exposed the new McCain - the confused, Bush lap dog, war mongering, deceitful and desperate old fool that he has become.

If McCain were reported honestly in the media, I think he would lose support faster than you can say "did I say war hero?"

This is a good point about the media. What I hear from the media is less about the candidates and more about themselves or about voters. So if you turn on the news you hear a lot of "Many people believe that Obama is...." and for viewers just turning in to get a quick update, it is easy for them to assume that "many people" are right. But the media seems to always chose the most controversial bit to bring up, so it has no basis in reality. Sometimes it's "many people say blahblahblah even though it isn't true" but by the time they get to the "even though" part the viewer has already changed the channel.

The "many people" ploy is a totally dishonest way of presenting a point they want to make. There are no "many people," although there are. And "many people" are always saying the opposite of what they contend. It's too bad people aren't educated to distrust these imaginary "many people" when they are referred to by these talking head frauds.

Good point.

The slim lead Obama enjoys in the polls right now is reflective of certain demographics that traditionally have a greater chance of going to the polls. If the election were held today my feeling is the result would be a Landslide for Obama.

Oh, you're good! Thanks for this.

Two words: Cell phones.

There are a whole generation of voters not being accounted for right now, myself included. Plus, polls are biased toward the better known candidate. Finally, polls are skewed by the questions that asked and who paid to commission it.

I don't think his "lack" of a huge lead at this point (except for in the electoral college where it really counts) is a problem at all.

Concerned about Obama's family? Not at all.

I'm more concerned that McCain was the strongest supporter of Ahmad Chalabi, who provided many of the lies Bush used to push us to war:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/09/chalabi-mccain/

Yet more proof that McCain does not have anything about him which can be even remotely called 'good judgement'.

Oh fer chrissakes just make fun of the wanker. Mel Brooks has made a fortune of mocking fascists. We're finally winning this political battle, start acting like winners and put the bedwetters in their place. 9/11 was committed by 19 guys with box cutters at the vanguard of a terrorist movement that had managed to train about 40,000 radical jihadis, mostly for action in Kashmir against the Indian government, not 6 aircraft carriers from a major industrial power like Japan at Pearl Harbor.

The Republican response has been completely nuts. Instead of routing their Taliban supporters and crushing Al Qaeda they've reinforced every talking point Bin Laden has by bolstering a petty dictator in Pakistan and depleting us by invading and occupying a Arab Islamic country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

We could have sensibly spent $12 billion on Western schools in Pakistan instead of F-16s capable of evading Indian and Israeli air defenses.

70% of the American people agree, the Gotalifes have forfeited their right to being taken as anything but objects of ridicule. He and his ilk are gutless racist wankers worthy of nothing more than the kind of necessarily cruel jokes that will make him and his kind realize that any more attempts at spreading their hate speech is unacceptable.

In short, fuck him and fuck that.

Word!

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Mel Brooks did not defeat the Nazis. If he had been in Germany when those bastards came to power, how long do you think he would have survived, after he told his first Hitler joke?

Humor and satire has it's place, but too many people think that it is the best way to combat evil.

It is not. Swift did not rescue the starving Irish by satirizing their English overlords. They went on t laying the groundwork that culminated in the Irish Famine.

This Goatlife is one of the hate filled scum of the earth, and you take that type lightly at our peril.

He is the sort of monster that would have rushed to participate in all those Southern Lynchings.
How many jests would have made the African American Community, in the old Confederate States, feel protected from the Night Riders!

Would Mel Brooks have been able to build a fortress of humor, that would have kept all those European Jews safe from the Nazis.

Iliam, of course Brooks didn't defeat the Nazis, he
was a child in 1945. But he's done a whole lot to calm the fears of Jews, to tamp down the paranoia that we're one step away from another progrom, to show that this country is different, that society has moved on from mindless hate. You can see it in scenes from almost every movie he's made. When conservatives lambast "Hollywood" values they're speaking about Mel Brooks as much as anyone else.

My goodmess, Gramm was right.

Whining about my post but we have not seen nothing yet. After the convention, the gop will attack him and his family. They have no shame or decency.

BTW wanker, stop using me to get recommended.

Yet you still haven't answered those who challenged you to back up your rhetoric. Your cup is empty, friend.

And if you really care about all this, so what? The GOP and their 527 minions will attack, and we can't stop them. They would attack Hillary, too. Don't be fooled. And she would not be guaranteed to win, if that's what you truly believe.

Regardless, we have someone we support and your concern is duly noted. Perhaps what you could be doing with that concern is educating people that it's perfectly all right - in America - to have Muslims in your family, to be Muslim and to believe in the faith of your choice. That's the real message here, not concern over having the wrong candidate.

Stand up for the truth, man, the truth about American values, rather than echo the hateful message of those who would tear it down.

Gotalife you moron I'm volunteering for a Dem congressional campaign, Scott Harper's in the IL-13. The field manager is a white kid from Hazelton PA who came over from the Hillary campaign after the MN caucus fiasco. He still loves Hillary but that didn't stop him or any of our other staffers and vols who from going to IN the Saturday before their primary to canvass for Obama because it was good for our campaign.

And lo and behold a couple of weeks ago when we ran the biggest Dem canvassing event this district has ever seen what did I see when I showed up early at the coffee shop staging area with the walk packets? 19 Obama and 5 DFA volunteers of all creeds, colors and ages who road the train from the city waiting there for me. Greg the guy who organized the DFA folks came all the way from Indiana. He did again today. He left the house at 7:30 to get to here today by 11:30 and told me he wouldn't make it home til 7:30 tonight.

In Scott's office we have at least a couple of Muslims, one's a graduate student at Duke and the other one might be if I don't strangle him first the next time his cellphone rings and blasts "Baba O'Riley" while I'm trying to coax an old lady on the phone to come in and make a few phonecalls for us. He put up some old posters from Bill's first run for house rep in Arkansas which remind me what I liked about Bill Clinton so I might cut him some slack.

Be my guess both these guys and every other young man and woman in that office think they have a chance to grow up to be a US Senator, Secretary of State or dare they think it, President. From Rich the white kid from the hardscrabble mining town in PA, to Scott Kagawa the Japanese American finance mgr whose grandparents were interned during WW2 to Geneve whose dad can't even vote here because he's still a resident "alien" Canadian to Leslie who looks likes a Williams sister and teaches tennis to Luke who looks like his ancestors came over on slave ships to be sold as little more than draft horses to Max whose ancestors rode steerage to escape Europe when their opportunities were little better as serfs.

I'll be goddamed if I'll let the likes of you deprive them of that dream. Regardless of their race, creed or color we're gonna let them compete like Americans should compete. All of them.

We're gonna go back to showing the world how it's done and why our way is the world's best hope. You got that? Do you, you fucking wanker? Cuz if not get the hell out of our country. There's plenty of nations you can go to that only accept one kind. Unfortunately for you there aren't any that accept racist Americans anymore. And with a little luck and a lotta hard work by the rest of us there won't be any anywhere that accept that kind of stupidity soon.




Awesome.

Love this comment. Needs to be a blog to Wankers in general.

Update to my post.

They found his other brother in China:

"Barack Obama’s brother pushes Chinese imports on US."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4406813.ece

Before I respond to this latest tripe - please advise why you have not responded to my queries noted both on your thread and this one too.

What, you have no credible response? At least admit it!

Nobody cares, racist trash.

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Yes, it should be allowed. It IS allowed.
But that doesnt mean we cant use the negative energy to turn it around against the unenlightened.
Knucledraggers (fortunately) are down to about the 35 percentile.
We gotta put in more work.

My response to getalife would simply be: So the fuck what? The article that getalife has posted on his blog describes Obama's brother as an even tempered, good natured person. And a muslim. It is a genuine pleasure to feel that people like getalife are becoming fewer in number with every passing day.

Got Muslims in my family...

And we all vote.

Did anyone else saw the 20/20 segment where they enacted a scene of an American girl in a hijab being discriminated and abused by a baker? I'm sorry to say but the majority of Americans there looked away and more Americans went up to show support to the "bigot baker" than did speak up against the injustice.


I'm very sorry to say.

To be fair to gotalife, I detest his post but he was just citing the bigotry that would derail Obama, he's not personally endorsing the bigotry. However, he was still pandering to it, not fighting it.

It makes sense to cite the bigotry. But you are right, pandering to it or arguing that we decide who to vote for based on it, that is the problem.

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They should remake "Groundhog Day" as "Primary Season" with Gotalife as the Bill Murray character.

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I really don't understand you people. I'm probably the last true Hillary supporter here who doesn't know what he's going to do with his vote in Nov and even I know gotalife is not worth talking to or about. Yet you all give him rec's and over 50 posts. Ignore the troll and he'll go away. He's in it for the attention.

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The fact that you are not committed to getting the Democrat elected makes your advise suspect. I will not ignore hate mongers. You can do what ever you wish, and the same goes for your vote.

“Hillary Clinton would be on anybody’s short list,” he said. “She is one of the most effective, intelligent, courageous leaders that we have in the Democratic Party. … I would love to have Bill Clinton campaigning for me.”

I agree.

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gotalife is an amusing troll. I think he/she is playing a character and doesn't even believe much of what he/she says (like a lot of the talking heads on TV), or they are exaggerating some feelings that they have about the election to get a rise out of people. There is no reason to take them seriously, just enjoy the liberties they take with logic and reason.

fogu2 / gotalife 2012!

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