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Adios, Mis Amigos.
I loved this place once. We came, we fought, we conquered, we made up, we laughed. Sometimes I even got a little teary eyed, maybe when the anonymity of it all allowed someone to open up and say something…very real. Poignant, even.
I don’t like it anymore. Maybe it was inevitable. During the primary, all our passions and angers and emotions were directed somewhere. We fought, over whether Hillary was the devil or a fighter, over whether Obama was different or a just another politician. We fought over the importance of their gaffes, their speeches, their wins. Maybe now, all that has nowhere to go but bounce around the walls of the Café, randomly striking whatever poster lies in its path.
Now, friends are foes, one-time good natured arguments have taken on a whole new level or ire. We used to be able to get into it. The only “sides” we came down on were Hillary or Obama. What now? Us vs. them. Which side of TPM do you sit on?
No sane person would expect a group of people to get together, outside of TPM or within its virtual walls, and all get along. It would be a sociological phenomenon if it happened. The community here is subject to the same characteristics of any human community of any time. There are friends, there are enemies. There are people we like, and people we don’t. There are people who feel like outsiders, and people who don’t see that at all. There are rude people, polite people, funny people, sad people, confident people, shy people, thoughtful people, intelligent people, serious and silly people. Just people. We stick around, for the most part. Something always brings us back, even when we tire of it for awhile.
I’m tired now. The only thing that seems to ignite anything these days are the so-called meta-posts, which descend into chaos faster than most.
And meanwhile. Meanwhile, the food banks are empty. More people are on food stamps than have been in years. We’ve got soldiers, young kids – fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters. Friends. Fighting in a place most of us can’t imagine. Over 4100 people dead. Mostly young people. My peers. Lives cut short, too short, for anyone to accept. People, waiting in lines outside banks, hoping to get their money for fear of losing their house, their lifeline…their families.
And still we fight. But about the right things? Perhaps because we are in agreement about so much, our predilection toward dispute becomes misaimed. I came here for a fight, goddamnit, and I’m going to get one!
What to guide us then? TPM policies? Our own moral compasses? Ah, the sweet nature of anonymity. It relieves us of our inhibitions. This can be a good thing. It can open us up to say things we might not say outside of here, to try new things. To be brave, and open. But also, perhaps less constrained by what some might call social modicum. TPM tells us to use the same language we’d use in a Coffee House, perhaps in a debate with friends. Of course, this is rather vague, and subject to each person’s own personality and characteristics. Quite frankly, I’d probably be more likely to cuss or say something like, “That’s the goddamn dumbest thing I’ve ever heard,” were I in the company of my friends in a coffee house. People I’ve known for years. Sometimes you can really get into it with the people you know are still going to like you at the end of the day. And the opposite is true too, in a way. Here, without the politics of friendships and relationships, we might be able to say something we couldn’t say to friends. For whatever reason.
I’m not here to tell you to be nicer to each other, to appreciate each other’s points of views, to call out anyone for being mean to me, or praise anyone for being nice to me. That’s not what this is about. And you don’t have to recommend, or comment. I just hope you read it.
Really, it’s more my au revoir. I’m going outside now. To enjoy my flowers, and the way the sunshine hits my toddler’s sunny curls. The feel of the sun on the back of my neck, and the remaining days where I can enjoy the sweet, humid embrace of summer.
I can’t say I won’t be back. I’ll be around, as I can’t help it now. I’ve made friends, and I surely won’t be able to help myself when someone really does say the dumbest thing ever. Just not for awhile.
But for now, well…I’ve got to go see a man about a horse.
Comments (32)
Good luck with the horse, Hilary. And/or the man. Don't be a stranger.
July 25, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hilary _
I guess I have seen something else. Yes there are few that get a tad strident, but most of the conversation have been rather civil either defending or challenging one point of view.
However in this case it matters not how I see it. It is your perception of the situation. So on that note take care, go have some fun and check in ever now again.
July 25, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
See you around, Hilary; I've enjoyed reading your comments. I hope your post will give me the strength to fight my own TPM addiction!
July 25, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope you do come back. There's definitely been some really odd and disturbing stuff over the last few days, but I don't think it's going to last. Of course, I understand it's not just the last few days you're talking about, but I suspect those were probably the straws that broke the camel's back. These things seem to come in waves. Sometimes the waves reinforce, sometimes they cancel. Recently they've been reinforcing.
Of course, as November draws closer the us vs. them mentality of Obama vs. McCain will only get stronger (if that's possible), even though there are numerous other important issues. More important issues, although some would argue the Presidential race is a central factor affecting many of those issues. Of course, most of us (especially here) agree on who should be the next President, and merely disagree on how critical we should be of him now vs. after November.
That said, there are those who post serious political blogs on non-Presidential issues. Unfortunately, these make up about 5% of the total number of blogs, if that. If you continue to lurk without posting, it'll help TPM if you (and others) recommend those blogs so as to encourage more of their kind.
July 25, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hilary - just wanted to say your departure would be a real loss for the TPM community. Even during the primary season, I always found your posts interesting and enjoyed your balanced perspective (and not just because you are one "l" away from Hillary). And you wrote one of my favorite TPM cafe posts ever that touched on politics and literature and myths in such a unique way.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/morgan-le-fay-hillary-clinton.php
We need more Hilarym99 - not less. Hope you'll reconsider... but yes getting out there and enjoying the flowers is important too.
:) Dijamo
July 25, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know Hilary, this seems an excellent plan.
And as someone who admires your values as I have seen them presented on this site, I hope you don't mind if I take the opportunity to also bid farewell.
Just feeling the solidarity spirit rise up in me. So long,99. You're the best. Und aufwiedersehen mein lieber Des, wherever you are. Du bist der jenige der hat mich am meisten berührt. Aber heute is der Tag des Abschieds.
July 25, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ja ja, vielleicht ich gehe auch. Ich bin nicht so enttauscht mit dem Wahlen, hier in tpm ist ganz toll, und obweil ich mach Spass, warum? Kein Leben? Hier und dar gibt es ein bischen Belohnung, etwas Sinne, etwas Humor und Lachend, Q ist ein neue gut Freund hier usw, aber uberhaupt ist alles sinnlos. So ruf mir an, e-stuffus.blogspot.com, weiss ich nicht ob ich langer hier bleiben, aber es freudt mich gern, wann ich dir in ein Post sehen. Tchussie.
July 25, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Y'see Des? I told ya, 100 times - "She LIKES you! Just walk up & say HELLO," says I. But no. You get all knock-kneed & start mumblin' ferrin shit that nobody understands. She's from the BRONX, nitwit. She likes the tough talk. MACHO guys. Like... moi. And so now all you're left with is yer fingers slammed in the window... and the Girl's gone. I hope you're proud of yourself. Next time, at least give her a song, ok? Somethin'.... classy. Maybe somethin' from... Whitney. Next time, dude. When she's back.
Cause NOBODY got it goin' on like the Girl From The Bronx.
July 25, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? I wish you wouldn't. You do realize that babblefish exists for the woefully undereducated.
July 25, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, you have babelfish, but you can't use it in 4 languages simultaneously, and you can't create poetry.
But for Q, here's an expla: Hi, GFTB, I live on another continent, cool to talk to you but well, hey, no way to meet, drop in my digs for multilingual chat anyway, e-stuffus.blogspot.com - this is the is. Sabe?
July 25, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Getting away can be good - needed perspective. And there may be that one burning issue that you just have to get in there and DISCUSS, that will bring you back. We'll be watching for you, Hillary. Enjoy the sunshine!
July 25, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary, I always found your honesty humbling, your prose mesmerizing, your thoughtfulness compelling.
I will miss you. And I hope you will return when the mists clear and the desire to speak out motivates you again. Have fun and peace amid the sunshine and the gardens. Breathe.
July 25, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Ripper: I know you've been busy moving lately, and that you're in St. Louis, so I thoguht I'd recommend that you check out Springsteen in St. Louis in a few weeks (Sat, 08/23/08; 07:30 PM Scottrade Center). I'm going to 4 shows next week (Jersey & Mass.), so I'm wicked psyched. Thought I'd pass it on!! :) :) :)
July 25, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hilary, it's sad when reasonable people who add substantially to our discussions want to leave. And I understand the whys and wherefores of it. I will say, however, that we don't need to confine our discussions simply to the TPM world. We can find ways to reach out of our own echo chamber of choice and take messages elsewhere - into the real world that so desperately needs to hear reason and truth.
Some of us have been trying to find a way to take on the media with our SCAAMD idea. That's just one of many ways we can make a difference. Here or there, I hope you will keep your voice clear and honest and use it often.
And come back if you miss us.
July 25, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hilary McDevitt: Enjoy the sun! (I just spent a few days in the country swimming in a river and soaking up the sun... :) )
But definitely come back for the conventions and the debates. This place is going to be fun to read when BO and McSame finally engaged head-to-head.
July 25, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm outta here! But no not really."
I would honestly love to know what sparked this. Who was mean to you? Who was so utterly rude to you that you felt the need to do what soooo many others before you have done, i.e. compose their forum resignation letter that really isn't any such thing because you'll be back soon anyway.
I mean really what was the point of this? To get one last recommend? To see just who your "friends" really are? Gratuitously fishing for sympathy?
If all you wanted was a little time off, a little quality time with family, you could have just gone off quietly to enjoy the sun and your toddler and flowers and stuff without the one last reach for attention, then sautered back over when you felt like it...no fuss, no muss. But no!
Yes, that's clear. You're leaving but you don't want to burden us with the reason why. Or presume to tell us what could be done to make it better for you to maybe not leave. Right. Makes no sense, but what the hell.
Like Cher and Celine Dion and the Rolling Stones...this is your farewell....Hmmmm, but maybe not really so much, right?
Unlike the others in this sad, pathetic thread, I'm not quite as forgiving of childish whining. So... if this is really the way you want to go out, then don't let the door hit ya!
(Oh yeah, and see ya back here real soon!)
July 25, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hilarym99 & Girl From The Bronx. Big Love from the North to you both. And yes, I mean a big Barry White kinda love. (Frankly, Des is ugly & the selection is gettin' pretty thin.)
Kidding. Go NORTH, young women! Because somewhere north of North Dakota, there lies... more flat places. With lot of mosquitoes. And snow. But the beer is good, the language Franglaise & the trash-talk in your average hockey game superior to the posts here.
Jesus though, DO come back. Willya both? I'm beggin' here. By my count, that's 4 lost in 48 hours. Soon it'll just be me & my shadow. Won't be pretty. Blue blue blue blue down your pages.
So I won't say goodbye. Loki'd come down here & trounce me if I did. Therefore, I'll just say... 'til tomorrow! Which would be a Saturday. So maybe we'll see you some Saturday in late August, ok? Don't make me beg. I'll miss you 99. And GFTB. Enjoy the Summer. And when you come back, tell us about it.
July 25, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a long time reader, & only an occasional commentor I felt you were, along with many, always the voice of reason. It has been a very long campaign & many are starting to frazzle & are becoming disenchanted with a lot of the rhetoric. I know I frequently go media free & shut down occasionally & just turn to music sometimes.
Enjoy your toddler, & the sunshine, makes perfect sense, somehow I feel strongly you will check back from time to time.
Since I noticed raider99 & Ripper both commented just wanted to let them know I recently installed a new system & cannot return E-mail, they will know what is being referred to, hopefull it will be corrected soon.
July 25, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Message received.
July 25, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't blame you, Hilary. The toxicity here has become overwhelming, unhealthy, unnecessary, suffocating. Kind of like Lake Erie when I was growing up. ;-)
After a while you realize it's not any fun stepping over all the dead fish washed up on the beach.
I blame George Bush for all of the nastiness expressing itself, however. I truly believe we are all purging. I also believe it will end with the election.
Until then, I just want to say thanks for your thoughtfulness, Hilary. Thanks for your perceptiveness. And thanks for the connection. May our paths cross again some day.
Peace,
gasket
July 25, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of beaches, me and the kids spent tonight picking up trash on our favorite stretch of beach. It'll be filthy again tomorrow, but interacting with the locals who joined in once we got started is what made it fun, even if no less futile.
July 25, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
You need to take a break if the drama is getting to you that much, get some fresh perspective.
(Actually, you should take a break the moment you start having thoughts like "I have a bond with people here" but that is another discussion.)
What is with you, people? It has been like the Emo Teen Suicide Note Forum the last couple days.
July 25, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Online burnout is a drag. It's good to unplug, as we will need everyone at full strength in a couple short months.
July 25, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bye. Wish you the best.
July 25, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
best wishes and when the time is ripe, please return...
Lux
July 25, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
But it is human nature for people to not like each other.
Or is it?
July 26, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess I must be reading a different site, because there seem to be much less vitriol than was on evidence during the primary. The worst things see around here these days is too passionate defense of Obama leading to a "Who is the biggest political sell-out" debate.''
The only difference between this place and the coffeehouse is that learning individual quirks of communication take a lot longer in the absence of tone of voice and body language. Take Loki Redux for instance. I think I am finally beginning to understand where he/she is coming from, his/her style of debate - snark and sarcasm and kind of a cynical devil's advocate approach, but not vitriol and attack, though it sure feels that way most times.
I am coming to the point that I am able to have a huge thread that ultimately leads to no understanding and still not get offended or take it personally. I am beginning to apply the advice my best friend gave me as my company was falling apart of the last six months - It's not personal, it's business.
What!? Fuck that. It's very personal to me, except that it wasn't to him. It was business. As soon as I understood that, I became more tactical and less emotional.
Same thing goes around here. It's not personal, it's political. It is also just like a family. My little brother debates exactly like Loki. To a tee. Pisses me the fuck off in three syllables or less. Like Name That Insult or something. But it's not personal. He still loves me. Would step in front of a bullet for me. But holy shit does he grab a rhetorical blade to slice and dice my arguments at every turn and force me to explain myself more dispassionately and with less emotion. Making me a better communicator.
That is what this place is becoming for me. A place to hone my arguments to the point that they are more rational and less emotional. More logical and less personal. I don't think I could have gotten from there to here without the light contact and full contact sparing with folks around here. With a few notable exceptions, the crew around here are progressive in their thinking and revolutionary in their methods. We will need a whole lot of the decades ahead.
I won't say goodbye since, as Loki points out, this place is addictive and a little time away will make the heart grow fonder - even for your sarcastic and contentious "brothers and sisters" around here.
July 26, 2008 9:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I, too, would take a bullet (rhetorical in this case) for you Jason. I have not lost site of where you are coming from.
Just sayin'.
July 26, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto.
We are going to continue butting heads, but I truly believe I am better off for the experience.
I am sure my real-life compadres appreciate the changing tone and tenor of my debating style, even if I am still an unrepentant dick sometimes.
Just saying....
July 26, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dammit! "sight"
July 26, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Hillary, I'm sorry it hit you like this. It does sometimes - I've gotten furious mad and walked away and I came back because it's worth it.
There's a saying in Taos, NM - "The mountain always wins." It means a lot of things, but what it means to me is that this place was here way before I got here and it will be here when I leave and I'm not going to change it - it is what it is.
Look, I've been frequenting political comments boards now for over 6 years. I've never seen one that was different from the rest - never. They are all the same. This is how the thing evolved and obviously this is the natural channel it runs in or it would not have evolved to this.
Sometimes you have to pull up your socks, gut it up and deal.
The Mountain is going to win here, Hillary. Not you. Online communities set their own parameters and you cannot change those. Try - see what happens. You can't.
All I can say is if you temperamentally are going fed up, then get the hell offline right now. That's the only thing you can do.
July 26, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
scratch that "going" in front of "fed up."
The one thing that is capable of change is the damn commenting program - it could change to one where we have a Preview ability.
July 26, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
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