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The Sword of Damocles
I was surprised that Maureen Dowd, of all people, led me to a encyclopedic page of virulently anti-Obama material. Was this advance damage control or just subtly presented, advance damage? Who knows.
The Internet, as I'm sure you all know by now, is buzzing with rumors of the famous Michelle Obama, "whitey" tape, of which the link of Maureen Dowd's provides this description:
For about 30 minutes, Michelle Obama launched into a rant about the evils of America, and how America is to blame for the problems of Africa. Michelle personally blamed President Clinton for the deaths of millions of Africans and said America is responsible for the genocide of the Tutsis and other ethnic groups.The first question is, does the "tape" actually exist?
She then launched into an attack on "whitey", and talked about solutions to black on black crime in the realm of diverting those actions onto white America. Her rant was fueled by the crowd: they reacted strongly to what she said, so she got more passionate and enraged, and that's when she completely loses it and says things that have made the mouths drop of everyone who's seen this.
The "tape" is a DVD that Trinity United sold on its website, and possibly offered free for download up until March 2008 when Trinity's site was scrubbed and the DVDs were no longer offered for sale.
I would imagine it does, because, strictly as a rumor, this thing would have very short legs. It certainly wouldn't affect the election if the tape never appeared.
There is a certain plausibility in Obamfile's version, if you situate yourself in July 2004, at a conference of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/Push Coalition, when according to Obamafile, all this is supposed to have happened, then some of the things she is accusing Bill Clinton of are quite reasonable and part of progressive discourse at that time.
For example, it is true that Bill Clinton never moved a finger to stop the massacres in Rwanda. The information became known in April of 2004, and quite a few well informed black people... and not so black people, rebuked him bitterly for it.
However if the rest of what the website says is true and the tape exists, when and if it is released, then that will be the end of Barack Obama's campaign. It will all be over but the shouting.
I think the United States is certainly ready to elect an African-American, Obama's success to date proves that, but probably they are not prepared to elect one who appears to be of the radical left to boot.
And if, as the website Maureen Dowd links to says,
Her rant was fueled by the crowd: they reacted strongly to what she said, so she got more passionate and enraged, and that's when she completely loses it and says things that have made the mouths drop of everyone who's seen this.Then middle-America will have nightmare visions of Obama's Inaugural Ball... and frankly, I don't think middle-America is ready for that yet.
Middle-America has up till now been enchanted with someone who seems to them to combine the gravitas of Colin Powell and the unthreatening charm of Will Smith, with just a dash added of Doctor King's noble rhetoric and delivery. In short someone who embodies all that white America loves in black America and none of the things they fear and loathe. Catharsis. We all live happily ever after.
That the Obama camp is taking so seriously what is only at the moment a rumor, (and a rumor that will fade and die harmlessly if no tape, in fact, exists) then it would appear that the tape's release is imminent. (For what imminent release means, see below.) Otherwise they are only giving body to baseless calumny. Some of what they are planning to do is frankly a little sinister. According to Time:
Obama is enlisting his millions of supporters to help him hunt down and quash these stories, just as those supporters helped him turn his insurgent campaign into a history-making juggernaut.How exactly are these "millions of supporters" going to "hunt down" and "quash"? Are we talking about out and out intimidation?
Time continues:
Near each rumor will be a fight-back button, offering suggestions as to where and how Obama supporters can call or e-mail to counter the rumors. The site will also have a spot where Obama supporters can alert the campaign to any new rumors they may be seeing on the Web or in their mailboxes or hearing on the telephone.I think the "fight-back button" is a huge mistake, this is a Skinneristic wet dream for every electronic prankster in America. This would be like an electronic version of a village bullfight, called a capea in Spain, (what they call in South America, a pachanga), with all the local boys risking their lives to lure the bull.
Assuming the tape exists, who are "they" and when would "they" release the tape?
I see four possibilities:
(1) Hillary: If she has it, she'll find someone to release it in time for the super-delegates to change their minds with decorum. If the tape appears very soon, shedunnit.
(2) McCain: If he has it, he'll release it in the fall, probably the classic "October Surprise". In time for the voters to see it and digest it, but not early enough for Obama to make a Checkers Speech.
(3) Reverend Wright: If as they say, the tape was in the Trinity Church catalog, Wright will have some copies lying around for sure. He has access and motive. If he releases it, he'll will do it either right before or during the Democratic convention. So that all hell breaks loose and he can sit back and laugh and laugh as those super-delegates tie themselves into knots.
(4) Some fifteen year old kid will launch it from his bedroom computer to impress his friends... Any time he and they get bored. Thus is history written.
As I said, either the tape exists or it doesn't... If it doesn't, the rumor itself won't hurt Obama because, as they say in Spanish, "what doesn't kill you makes you fat".
____________________________________
BTW: Now even Muammar Qaddafi is getting into the act. Here is this from the BBC website:
"The statements of our Kenyan brother of American nationality Obama on Jerusalem... show that he either ignores international politics and did not study the Middle East conflict or that it is a campaign lie," he said.How is that for perverse? Qaddafi has strange taste in clothes for sure, but he is very shrewd and I am sure he knows how his remarks will play on Fox.
"We fear that Obama will feel that, because he is black with an inferiority complex, this will make him behave worse than the whites."
"This will be a tragedy," Qaddafi said. "We tell him to be proud of himself as a black and feel that all Africa is behind him."
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Comments (61)
"then that will be the end of Barack Obama's campaign."
From one whitey to another, I consider this offensive.
You suggest that we are all so ignorant as to let something like this actually give us pause to vote for Obama?
Whether the tapes are real or not, I have to agree with much of the sentiment they seem to vent.
And I think most "whiteys" feel the same, we aren't so fickle as to change our minds because someone exercised their right to free speech and spoke some uncomfortable truths.
Sounds a bit concern-trollish to me...
June 12, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure it won't affect your vote. But, I am sure that it would motivate a lot of people, you've probably never met, to vote against Obama if he is seen to be outside the mainstream. And Americans are funny about first ladies.
BTW: I'm not a "concerned troll", if you read my posts you'll know that I am no fan of Obama's. I think the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot with him. My not so secret hope is a hung convention that drafts Al Gore.
June 12, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what makes you a FUCKING TROLL. You have no proof of anything ... slap up some anti-obama links, and then analyze what it might mean if something imaginary actually exists. The point being to generate concern among the TPM readers - a "concern troll".
This entire post is one big troll to get people to discuss a Fictional smear campaign as if it were real!
From one Obama supporter: Fuck off!
June 12, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The first question is, does the "tape" actually exist?
I would imagine it does, because, strictly as a rumor, this thing would have very short legs. It certainly wouldn't affect the election if the tape never appeared."
This tape does not exist. Go here:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome
June 12, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Methinks Obama protests too much.
If the tape doesn't exist... I don't understand why they are giving body to a rumor months before the election. If, in fact it doesn't exist, then it will finally die a natural death.
Supposing it exists as described, I don't think the word "whitey" is what this is really about... I imagine that it is a very emotional and aggressive speech with a lot of crowd feedback... something that would be a huge turn off for suburban whites.. the sort of thing that makes whites suburban in the first place.
June 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
June 12, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blockquote meant to close after first sentence.
June 12, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
We are not talking about rumors like "he is a Muslim"... How would they ever "prove" that and except for denying it how could he ever "disprove" it.
But in this case we are talking about a tape.. which either physically exists or it doesn't. If it doesn't appear, it never existed. If it does appear, then it exists and will have to dealt with.
June 12, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it existed, it would have already appeared.
June 12, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary does it, she'll do it soon in order to look innocent in August. If McCain does it, he will do it in the fall... an October Surprise.
June 12, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look, if it appeared on the TUCC web-site for a month or more, the way back machine would've archived it, and any news organization worth their salt would be able to find evidence of it.
It's that simple—it doesn't exist.
June 12, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
God, Seaton, you're a fucking idiot. I NEVER call people that.
Seriously. It is impossible to prove a negative. Can you prove that purple flying elephants don't exist? That's right... look all over the planet and you won't find one. But, maybe on some other planet, millions of light years away, they do. YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE, which means Obama can never prove the tape doesn't exist, which means the rumors could continue - especially when jackasses like yourself try to lend credulity to it by mulling over all the specific possibilities as though it were real.
June 12, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
David -
This particular rumor has been floating around for months. I believe it was finally refuted at least a month ago by a number of sources I just lead you to the handiest.
A simple by google search by you would have accomplished the same thing.
However one did finally surface:
June 12, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
oops didn't work. Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZi6U811hxE
June 12, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I repeat, if it doesn't exist, its non-existence will prove it doesn't exist.
If no tape appears, people will forget about it... certainly by November.
June 12, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you can't prove it doesn't exist, I'll assume that it does. We've heard this logic before...it didn't work out so well.
June 12, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, I repeat:
YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE, which means Obama can never prove the tape doesn't exist, which means the rumors could continue - especially when jackasses like yourself try to lend credulity to it by mulling over all the specific possibilities as though it were real.
June 12, 2008 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
So it was available for purchase on the Trinity website but nobody ever bought it? I mean you'd think there would be hundreds sold - and nobody has seen this video?
You don't even believe what you wrote.
June 12, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you know nobody ever bought it?
They say the Giuliani people "bought" it. You can bet the Hillary people have been paying top dollar for stuff like this. What really sounds authentic is the Bill Clinton-Rwanda stuff. That was still very fresh news in summer 2004.
June 12, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
The word is that the Trinity website was scrubbed in March 2008. Detectives and researchers get well paid for being able to find things that others miss.
Look, it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist and nothing will happen and every will have forgotten this by November. What makes it all so suspicious is that they attacking something that "doesn't exist" so fiercely. That really has a funny smell.
June 12, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
So...you're more suspicious at the Obama campaign's attack of the rumor than you are of the unsubstantiated rumor?
Okay. But I think your suspicion has more to do with being the result of your personal prejudices and choice than with any reasonable argument.
My choice is to view this rumor as silly and malevolent hogwash.
I am suspicious about your motives here, though.
June 12, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody has it because it would have been sold to the networks or the highest bidder. So you contend only one was sold and it is now in the hands of Giuliani?
If such a video existed, there would be more than one purchased, meaning there would be dozens if not hundreds floating around meaning somebody else would be looking for a payday.
Even if you were the biggest Obama supporter and had one, you'd look to sell it to a network because you'd know there would be others and know that somebody has seen it in the political campaigns meaning it's going to get out anyways so you might as well make some serious money off of it.
For that reason alone believe it doesn't exist. There is really no point to further discuss this because any discussion only perpetuates this silly smear rumor, which is likely why you've blogged about it anyways.
June 12, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know. I haven't got it.
If a real newsman has/had it he or she would have published it ages ago.
But if political operatives have it they would use it when it was most to their advantage. In my post i give four different possibilities.
What I can see it that the Obama people are getting hysterical about something they say doesn't exist and that makes me suspicious.
June 12, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
If a single political operative had it, they might wait to use it when it was most to their advantage. However, if it were truly available on the TUCC web-site, then the way back machine would allow any credible journalist to find evidence of it.
June 12, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if they didn't defend themselves against such smears you'd say there must be truth to the silly rumors or they'd come out strongly to counter it. You've got your angle to play and you're playing it.
As has been mentioned, this isn't a new rumor, it's been around for months and got enough traction that Hannity has discussed it and a reporter even asked Obama about it.
In your four different possibilities you are seemingly only assuming there is one video. Or somehow there is a men-in-black army of operatives out to track down every last copy before the media gets their hands on it.
I just tend to believe that if there was a tape that we would have seen it by now. To even discuss it without any ounce of proof one ever existed is blatant rumor mongering.
June 12, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, brother. David, this is just squirrely.
Look, I know you have problems with Obama. But are you really going to go this far?
Why don't you hold off on any more "concern" posts on this until a tape actually shows up?
June 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
For those who don't know you can't scrub the internet. If it was ever posted, and was around for a month or so (i.e., long enough for it to be crawled by the way back machine), there'll be a record of it.
June 12, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not a text. I'm not at all sure it was ever online at all. Just something an old church lady would sell you on Sundays when everybody's having coffee and donuts.
If the Obama's weren't making such a fuss, I wouldn't be paying half so much attention.
June 12, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The sale listing page would have been text, no? And thus archived?
I have a bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in...
June 12, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are credulous beyond belief. The tape/DVD does not exist, or it would have surfaced by now. If there were "hundreds" out there, do you not think someone, somewhere, would have thought "This is dynamite stuff - everyone's got to see this!" and made copies and/or put it up on YouTube - just as a start?
That's the thing about rumor-mongering. It often has no basis in reality, and the continued lack of factual backup is often taken by those naive enough to accept innuendo as fact to be further evidence of some sort of "coverup" taking place. (See 9/11 "truthers" as a recent, glaring example.)
There is no such thing. And we know you're no Obama fan. (I think you're just trying to help torpedo him.) From your past postings, you're clearly the "It has to get worse before it gets better." type; someone who believes far too much in his own nebulous stuff, and truly wants things to get worse - most likely for everyone else.
If there's not enough of a difference between Obama and McCain for you, well, maybe some "workers' paradise" out there will accept your application. It might also help dispel some of your precious illusions...
June 12, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well for a "workers paradise" is Scandinavia, not Cuba and I thought and still think that if the Democrats were serious people that this year they would have nominated Al Gore. How's that for a radical?
June 12, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
How exactly does a party nominate someone who does not even seek to run? And if they had, what sort of campaign do you think he'd have run?
Nice evasion, by the way. Are you ever going to address the fact that your story has (to steal from Nick Danger, Third Eye) more holes than Albert Hall?
June 12, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
How exactly does a party nominate someone who does not even seek to run? And if they had, what sort of campaign do you think he'd have run?
Nice evasion, by the way. Are you ever going to address the fact that your story has (to steal from Nick Danger, Third Eye) more holes than Albert Hall?
June 12, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
By Jove, Holmes, you've done it again!
June 12, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is something from 2004 and you would really have to know what you were looking for and look very patiently to find it.
Some people are very good at finding this sort of thing. I've known a couple, they work very hard, they have a lot of fun (like all collecting fanatics do) and they make good money at it.
June 12, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, you think all but one copy of this DVD have been destroyed, then?
And this one copy is being held by a political operative?
June 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never said there was only one copy. I imagine they are all over the South Side gathering dust in people's closets.
June 12, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm. And you don't think that someone would be willing to pay good money for it? And if that money was offered that at least a few members of his church who have the DVD would be willing to cash in on it?
This isn't a small church we're talking about.
As someone else pointed out, if they weren't denying it, you would take that as evidence that the DVD must exist as well. Basically, it has nothing to do with what the Obama campaign has said, and has more to do with what fits your worldview.
June 12, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, I'm going to quote the original text here:
So, you admit that I've effectively blown that theory out of the water, and you're now moving on to the theory that:
June 12, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
No I don't admit any such thing, because in a game with the stakes we are talking about even Archive Org can be "scrubbed" too. Believe me with these stakes you and I and many others can be scrubbed.. .this is the devil's game
June 12, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, which is it then? A DVD that was sold on its web-site and possibly even offered for free as a download, or was it never online at all?
Again, even if it never were online, or if the Illuminati managed to get archive.org to scrub all evidence of it, multiple people would've been willing to sell their copies of it in order to turn a nice profit.
June 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give up, Ben - he will always have the last word, even if he has to come back to this thread after it's been archived.
June 12, 2008 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
What he doesn't realize is that I am a member of the Illuminati as well as a board member of archive.org. When all is said and done, I'll take some personal creative liberties with the "archival" version of this page.
June 13, 2008 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Frankly I think most have forgotten about it. I don't know where you've been, but it was even discussed here at TPM weeks ago.
June 12, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it a very simple thing, it either is or it isn't, if it isn't it wont appear and if it does and it contains what they say, then ·"goodbye", that's all she wrote.
June 12, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
It isn't, and the evidence is, as you just stated, that it hasn't appeared.
How long does this rumor have to be unsubstantiated before you're willing to say that the video hasn't appeared?
June 12, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where? ABC? NBC? CBS? Or on the mainstream, authoritative, and completely credible NoQuarter website?
:-p
June 12, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hear there's a tape of David Seaton holding forth in a Spanish cafe - his rant is fueled by the crowd - he gets more passionate and enraged - finally he loses it and shouts "Barack Obama! You mean B-lack YoMama"! The aftershock reverberates across the Atlantic.
June 12, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seaton later opined, in a candid interview, that "Michelle is lookin' pretty hottt!"
June 12, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
whoa, where can i buy a tape of this?
June 12, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, for a while it was for sale on: http://davidseaton.com/
However, since that time it's been scrubbed from that site as well as from archive.org.
June 12, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I now possess the only remaining copy - or do I???
June 12, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
sounds like there's a political operative out there, biding his time, waiting for the perfect moment to spring this on Mr. Seaton. and since people keep talking about it, it must be out there!
June 12, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I'm sure it will surface. And on the same day, we'll finally get to see those photos of a young Kitty Dukakis burning a flag, that film of a young Hillary Clinton doing likewise (that flag burning amendment thing she did suddenly makes sense!), and that videotape of Teresa Heinz Kerry making anti-American remarks--along with documentary evidence showing her support for terrorist groups.
And that same week, we'll also finally get a photo of the hook left hanging in the door by that one-armed serial killer, the latest updates on the mounting death toll from the Klingerman virus, hidden camera film of the board of directors of Colgate-Palmolive engaged in Satanic rituals high atop their HQ in Cincinnati, and the latest dope on that nefarious NAFTA highway.
June 12, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will the alligators in the NYC sewers be in this release too?
June 12, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jeez, for someone who's supposedly so on top of the Internet "buzz," it's astounding that you missed the all too likely explanation, that Mrs. Obama's "rant" wasn't against "whitey," but against the Bush administration, as in:
Why'd he cut folks off medicaid?
Why'd he let New Orleans drown?
Why'd he do nothing about Jena?
Why'd he put us in Iraq for no reason?
What makes this interpretation all the more believable is the fact that, since this non-controversial transcript of Mrs. Obama's speech has been proposed, the date Larry Johnson claimed he would release the video has long since come and gone.
Mr. Johnson obviously had enough sense to realize he'd be making a fool out of himself by keeping his version of the story alive.
Maybe you should take a clue from him, David Seaton...
June 12, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
David, I know for a fact that Michelle Obama has an agenda:
1) The gelding of all white men;
2) The delivery of all young white virgin girls to the Oval Office for deflowering (Michelle likes to watch);
3) The transfer of money from the bank accounts of hard-working white Americans to the pockets of lazy, slovenly Negroes.
Let's string up the traitor Michelle now before it's too late. And her little girls too, because they'll turn out the same. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
June 12, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
David, I'm going to thank you for making this post. I've suspected for quite a while that you're an intellectually dishonest jackass.
This post makes me certain of it.
June 12, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
In fact, the reaction I've received to my post convinces me more than anything else that there is something to this rumor. Or perhaps a tremendous fear that there is something out there of that caliber and destructiveness.
June 13, 2008 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gotcha. Because we're all in on the conspiracy, right?
Look, David, you've made it clear that the reason you believe this is because you want to believe it. At least be honest with yourself if not with us. If the Obama campaign didn't deny this, you'd take that as evidence this was legitimate. Since they did deny it, you take that as evidence this is legitimate. If we ignored this post, you'd take that as evidence this as legitimate. Since we didn't ignore it, you take that as evidence this is legitimate.
All of this despite your own logic, that if this were real, then the tape will come out. More than enough time has come out, for this to come out, yet you still assume it's legitimate, because you assume it still will come out, even though it's after beyond the original promised delivery date.
If you're tempted to resort to conspiracy theory (e.g., to suggest that archive.org would be scrubbed without evidence), then you need to ask yourself why you're tempted to believe in that conspiracy rather than admit that the simpler possibility that a single person is lying about this.
June 13, 2008 7:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Concrrn trole iz concrrrrrrrrrnd!
June 19, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
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