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The Real Guy. What Was the Point of Hating Hillary?
I needed to pull back from it all. TPM, Huffington Post, Olberman/Meadow, all the Hillary demonizers. Because I had doubts and suspicions about the character and motivations of Senator Obama and whether he was truly a new bred of politician and a genuine agent of change I expressed my concern. I was told by Obamamaniac's that HRC was a power hungry, Machiavellian politician who would do anything to win votes. How can you not hate her when we have before us a knight in shining new armor who will do things differently, who will bring about real change? I had doubts. Strong doubts about the man. At the end of the day I was told I was a racist. That was a real cute moment, the progressive wing of the democratic party had become the evangelical wing of the Republican party. So I needed some distance from it all, backed away and shut out all the noise. Hillary ( the devil ) lost, Obama ( the angel ) won. And now what do we have? I won't go through the entire list of Senator Obama's recent actions just his decision to opt out of public financing and going along with the FISA cave in. I know all the political reasons why it was a smart thing to do so spare me the list. He is not an agent of real change, he is not a new bred of politician, he is not going to change the system. He is everything I thought he was...a politician, sly, slick, scheming, willing to do whatever it takes to win votes and power. Please understand, I have NO PROBLEM with that. But what was the point of hating Hillary? We got her anyway.
Johnny Pro
Johnny Pro
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Well said
June 21, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck you. You're a Republican troll. What do you know?
June 21, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, hrebendorf. I was about to write a response when I noticed that you said everything that needed to be said.
June 21, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Politicians are politicians.
The ones we want to get elected are the ones that are most sympathetic to us, and most open to suggestions from us.
In that sense, Obama is the best candidate and is better than Hillary. Not by much, however, and certainly not so much that it warranted the "Obamamania" that we all had to live through a month or so ago.
Now, can we forget the whole "Obama vs. Hillary" thing? There are more pressing issues out there now.
June 21, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's try to remember that Hillary won the hillbilly vote. How did she do that? By playing to the hillbillies. And how will McCain win them over? By being a Republican. And how will Obama slow his momentum? By playing to the center. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that the guy who "The Audacity of Hope" and "Dreams from My Father" is just some sort of a clever fraud? That he managed to fool millions of Americans into believing that he's someone different than the person that he actually is? That all of his previous votes as a Senator were just meaningless political theater? That his work as an activist and his time spent in the inner city in Chicago were just for show? What the fuck? Have you lost your mind? You're going to throw him under the bus over ONE STATEMENT YOU DISAGREE WITH? Take your Lithium--you're losing it.
June 21, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
hrebendorf, how's your day going? Are you guys so angry because you've been caught with your pants down or made to look like giant fools?
The defense of Senator Obama's exposing himself for what he really is is astonishing. What a different tune you dudes are singing. After all the bile, vitriol and vicious pounding of Hillary Clinton for wanting to win, being a politician, making politically expedient decisions and all the holy, holies and Obama's our savior shouts from the heavens, now it's just fine that he turns out to be another scheming, truth manipulating, SNAFU politician. You monumental hypocrites. ( This is a little harsh, sorry)
And as I said in my previous post I don't care that Senator Obama is making all these compromises to win, that he is making politically expedient decisions because he wants to be President ( See Hillary's Iraq Vote ). That's the name of the game. But it was ok for him to say and act like he was going to play the game differently and Hillary Clinton was the devil for playing the game the way you play win.
And what could be more slick and cynical then running a primary campaign based on taking advantage of and making fools out of young, naive, idealistic first-timers taking part in the democratic process.
And one last point my friend. I'm a democrat. A progressive. I have participated in campaigns, given money, and voted for over 25 years and I am ashamed of the way my party and other progressives ( blogs ) have treated Senator Clinton and her supporters. When she won in New Hampshire we were racists, when she won in Ohio and Pennsylvania we were bitter middle class twits with a confused value system, when she won in West Virginia and Kentucky we were dumb hillbillies. Right now I need to step back and think about were I belong in all of this and what I will do in November. I do know that my country cannot afford five more minutes of Republicans in power. But I am extremely wary of what Senator Obama will really be. Taking huge amounts of money from Wall Street, caving on FISA, opting out of public funding, limiting press access, playing word games concerning universal health care. SNAFU ( Situation Normal All F..ked Up.
June 21, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
pfft.
June 21, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
81% of Democrats are now supporting Obama. Last month it was 72%.
The rest, the anal retentive vote, is hard to secure.
June 21, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
quasar my man, you gotta do better then that. Step up to the plate, be respectful and address what I'm talking about. This stuff happened. This was real. This matters. It's not the deciding factor for me but I took a lot guff from friends because I defended Hillary Clinton for doing the same things Barach Obama is doing now.
ah well. best to you.
June 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's discuss your talking points - 'Taking huge amounts of money from Wall Street, caving on FISA, opting out of public funding, limiting press access, playing word games concerning universal health care.'
Specifics please, what is your documented basis for the Wall Street $$$$ ? Facts - be specific please with citing pertinent documented sources.
Obama was right to refuse the 'public financing' as his campaign is driven by the $10-$50 contributions from people of all states. These monies represent the participation of all ethnic groups, males and females, old and young, agnostics to evangelicals. For the first time, these voters are feeling empowered and vested in the election for the POTUS - largely because it's the combination of their small donations that will pay for the ads and other costs normally funded by lobbyists, the rich and big business. Obama's campaign received many communications from middle and even low income voters asking him to turn it down. For them. We want it to be our dollars providing the ability for this campaign to prevail - at this time, for this candidate. Kinda like in We, The People,....
As for limiting press access - this is about specific times: A.) When he ditched the press to meet with HRC (both wanted and were entitled to their privacy.) They felt like fools for staking out her home for hours only to discover meeting was elsewhere. B.) His meeting with evangelical leaders and others who would not agree to come together IF press was involved. He understood (as should any sane person) that no one would be candid and feel able to ask/say anything with press involved.
Playing word games with health care? Again, BE SPECIFIC.
Also, it is very curious that you would feel the need to drag Hillary into your post. It doesn't appear to be for any purpose but to stir the pot and attempt to rekindle past ill-will here. Hillary, bless her heart, is no longer part of the equation. She deserves better than to be used as a tool ro be used by anyone whose goal is to promote dissension and negativity.
June 21, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, johnnypro, it's a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Pour a gin and tonic, take to the porch, and think about whether you'd like a publicly financed President McCain. After all, he never demonized Hillary for playing to win. Bonus: He would never play word games with health care!
June 21, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Phillygirl, it's vodka and tonic, and nice big squeeze of lemon. Tasty. Gin makes me angry. Anywho, you all know what I'm talking about and I wouldn't expect anyone to really address it. That would take too many people down a long ugly road.
Back to the porch. Nice, big thunder storm brewing.
June 21, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
People -- even politicians can change their minds. One of the criticisms of Hillary is that she didn't take note of what she was up against and change her tactics.
So Obama changed his mind about public financing; who wouldn't in his position? Does anyone think for a minute that McCain (a changeling if ever there was one) wouldn't do the same if he had the kind of contributions that Obama does?
And just for the record, Obama's contributions are closer to public financing, considering his donation pool than tax-payer funding anyway. It is very hypocritical to come down on him about this. If he stayed with the tax-payer funded public financing, and then lost under the onslaught of wealthy republican swift-boaters progressives would be whining about the unfairness of it all.
The RNC has millions more than the DNC to spend. Obama has millions more than McCain. Why should he want to keep things uneven and giving McCain the advantage? It is a silly thing to criticize him about -- he is right to do this. McCain is just jealous; but not as jealous as he WILL be!
June 21, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink