So are you saying that you'll be voting for Obama, or that you'll be abstaining from voting in the presidential election?

Or, perhaps, Bob Barr?

Rec'd. It's interesting to see that your profile links to the National Online Party. I knew nothing about that project, so thanks for the link.

Other than allowing John McCain to lose, and working to shift focus away from that contest to other races, I'd be curious to understand what you consider the available (or best) tactics for achieving conservative reform.

It'd be great to see more serious conservative user posts like this one here at TPMCafé.

If McCain believes his brand of conservatism will unite the country behind him, I wish him the best of luck; I don't. The values we conservatives hold dear are not negotiable. They are not catchy campaign ads. If the country has been duped into believing in John McCain's neo-conservatism, it is even more important for us to set the record straight. As a suitable analogy: it is the same thing an honorable political appointee must do when he or she objects to the policy of the appointer...resign. We, as conservatives must resign from voting for McCain.

Conservatives who support John McCain are either doing so because their meal ticket is connected to his victory or are buying into the false premise that four or eight years of a liberal presidency will somehow irretrievably doom this country. Nothing could be further from the truth. Conservatives should see the two years as quality party-building time.

ex animo

Thanks for the intro.

By reform, I assume you mean "political" reform. I have blogged often about the need to reform the Republican Party.

The general electorate, if left to their own devises would settle to the right of center. Fair enough. Let's empower the People through the use of the Internet and watch true conservatism blossom spontaneously from the ground. Because of the Internet, we, the People, have a unique opportunity to change the present political power matrix for only a brief moment in our nation's political history. We have the tool to empower the people in our democracy, all we have to do is use it.

ex animo
davidfarrar

This post is another in the current faddy trend of complaining that conservatism never fails, but is only failed by imperfect people.

Bush was the conservative icon. Embraced by all conservativves as the uber-conservative who would save the world for conservatives. But he failed.

He did not fail because he was insufficiently conservative, he failed because "conservative" policies are inadequate to run a country. The conservative policy ouvre itself failed.

And no amount of complaining about imperfect conservative standard-bearers (like McCain) will change that fact. IOnce again, full throated conservatives have led this country into a ditch from which it will be hard to get out.

Of course, I could be wrong about the poster and others -- maybe you were purists who have been complaining about the conservative inadequacy of Bush's policies since 2001. But I would like to see your serious critiques of Bush and his administration's policies that date before his public popularity tanked. Because, as I read the record, the only people who were right from 2001 to 2006 were those who critiqued his policies from the beginning. And that chorus includes progressives and almost no self-proclaimed conservatives.

Yes, I fully understand your cynicism. You have every right to have that opinion. In fact, I dare say, the opinion you have expressed is shared by most of the general public, including most of John McCain's constituency. How can others understand how fiscal conservatism can save this Republic, this country and its peoples if we, ourselves, as conservatives, aren't willing to stand by them?

I keep telling my fellow conservatives friends, who are appalled at my suggestion not to support John McCain, "Winning the next election is important, but it isn't as important as winning the next six elections."

The conservatism to which I speak is fiscal conservatism. Fiscal conservative values really haven't been followed by any president since Reagan, and I am being nice here simply to provide a frame of reference...we could go back even further.

I would also suggest that many conservatives are beginning to realize that something is fundamentally wrong with our political system. We did all of the right things. We voted for the Republican candidates the RNC told us to vote for over the last several successful presidential elections, only to end up with McCain as our standard bearer -- and now we are being told to support him even though he has consistently betrayed conservative values as a matter of record.

Many now think like me, enough is enough. I now realize who my real enemy is, as Pogo said,"...it is us." We have brought the party to this stage because we have thus far filed to take a stand and say: "I will not vote for the candidate with an "R" in front of his name simply because the Republican Party says this is who I should vote for.

The moment the political elite see conservatives actually standing up for our core values, the right political path will be lit for the people to follow. Once the people see their mistakes, they will follow that path. But unless we, conservatives keep the path open and lit, the people will follow other paths in the political matrix only to find more failure.

ex animo
davidfarrar

In case this got past you, then let me make it clear:

I'm a progressive and I've waited a long damn time for y'all to finally reveal the depth of the perfidy and anti-Americanism of the conservative movement. Well you finally did and conservatives come back into power over my dead body.

And I mean that.

This is a good discussion. I am a flat-out progressive liberal. I never completely understood the conservative position. It seemed unrealistic, simplistic and, to be honest, old fashioned. It also seemed callous to the needs of people, far too reliant on free markets and insensitive toward those with fewer options or who had bad breaks.

However, over the years, conservative operatives have become increasingly manipulative and dishonest. There has been a lot of activity to grab power at the expense of whole constituencies, to further racist and misogynistic agendas, bring religion into politics and create the unitary executive that began as Nixon's dream and has just about fulfilled itself under Bush/Cheney.

"What we need is an American Renaissance that includes dispensing with the labels and brings all of our best minds to the table to craft solutions."

This is the best quote of this thread, so far - at least as I see it. I'm tired of labels. I see what people have done and I think there has to be something better than standing on either side of an imaginary line, hating and vilifying each other, and ultimately trading-off between having power and trying to sabotage the "other side."

As a progressive thinker/feeler, I want to see all of us grow up. It's not the world of the 19th century any more. It's not even the world of the mid-20th century when enemies like Hitler were so clearly defined. It's all different now.

- We have the very real prospect of running out of oil while we still depend on it for just about everything.

- We have the very real prospect of our ecosystem going into some massive freefall and taking millions - even billions of us with it.

- We have the very real fact that, with global communications networks, there are very few places on Earth where human atrocities go completely unnoticed.

- And we have a growing divide among people of strong ideologies that leads us to war and terrorism and all the terrible suffering that come along with them.

This isn't our forefather's world anymore. It's time we, as a people - a species on the planet - begin to think bigger, more inclusively and toward real solutions. And we need to get rid of people like Bush who have stood in the way of everything that really needs to be done, such as diplomacy, science and responsibility for ourselves. His answer to 9/11 is to go shopping. My answer is to begin to understand the world around us.

Too many Americans think everything begins and ends right here, but it doesn't. It's time that liberals and conservatives give up old paradigms and begin to recognize that we're all on this spaceship earth together - and it's mighty cold and empty past the little band of gases that allow us to breath and protect us from that emptiness. And if we don't cooperate, we could be heading into the greatest period of human suffering in our (relatively short) history.

Is it worth it? I love this discussion because I don't understand "conservatives." But I also think it's becoming quickly irrelevant what we call ourselves, other than "human".

True fiscal conservatism has not been practiced in this country since at least the early 19th century. What passes for conservatism is more aptly described as "them that has, gets". Even the most fiscally conservative businessman knows that you have to continually invest in your business and change with the times or you die.

Investing in education for all Americans is a conservative principle.

Investing in job training is a conservative principle.

Investing in infrastructure is a conservative principle.

Investing in health care to keep people healthy and productive is a conservative principle.

And even that noted Bolshevik Henry Ford understood that his business would do better if he paid his workers enough to be able to afford the products he produced.

"Conservatives who support John McCain are either doing so because their meal ticket is connected to his victory..."

My meal ticket resides in the oil & construction industries. Both of which McCain demonstrates a deep disdain for - and utter lack of understanding of.

As a conservative I would rather spend public money on infrastructure (that create jobs and a 'trickle up' effect in our economy) than continue to give more and more tax breaks to the people that haven't demonstrated competent stewardship of our economy as a whole, (i.e. the supposed richer, smarter upper class that knows better than most how to handle money - a belief to which I do not subscribe).

MSM keeps referring to the 'dog whistle' of racial politics, Obama has been 'dog whistling' to many of us who believe we may have to spend our way out of this economic ditch. I'd rather create a union construction job than subsidize the purchase of some executive's vacation home.

McCain has been using Alaska as the whipping post for the bad behavior of Republicans for the past 7+ years. He has consistently voted against and spoke out against the development of ANWR - an issue near and dear to Alaskans of EVERY political stripe. McCain is also one of the Senate's biggest union busters. Alaska is a fiercely pro-union state.

I find it really interesting that the MSM continues to declare Alaska 'in the bag' for McCain, but with his rhetorical war against everything Alaskans are looking for - I just don't see it happening that way.

Mark my words, we may surprise you.

What do YOU mean by "conservatism?" Are you talking about spending money carefully, and keeping out-go in check with income?

Do you mean that there should be no such thing as "public health?" Do you believe that public transportation should not be helped by government if it makes our collective life-style better? Do you think that Social Security is a bad thing? What do you think our government should have done vis a vis Katrina? What do you think our government SHOULD do regarding keeping our country safe?

If your answers to those are all essentially that we have to fend for ourselves and government has no place in our lives, do you not see that living in a healthy, well-educated society makes life better for even those who are rich and don't need any help?

I guess I just want to get an idea of what you mean by (and what limits you have for) conservatism. Because I have to say that from my understanding of things conservatives are just selfish, and have no concept of the common good.

Do you believe that there are any aspects of life that SHOULD be provided by the government? Education? Routine health care?

While I agree, Reagan wasn't the best example of a fiscal conservative, by today's terms, he helps to embody the ideology in a word.

Is it only me or does anybody else feel themselves growing smaller and weaker while the government and big business grow stronger and more powerful?

As a Republican, the maintenance of the Republic is my primary political concern. I see the growth of government, especially the growth of the "taxing class", those who have a financial interest in the growth of government for their own sake as the key threat to our sovereignty as a people, which is the key to the health of the Republic and the country.

I am deeply concerned we have allowed our government to print money without limit or effective control. This too is an example of the taxing class out of control.

Secondly, I no longer have faith in our electoral process. Until I can walk out of a voting booth with a numbered receipt in my vote in my hands, go on the Internet the following day and find my number and follow its numerical impact, I don't trust the results. It would seem to me, in a democracy, this would be the most important form of public service we can engage in and no expense should be spared in doing it correctly and the results unquestioned. I don't think it is an accident, our voting system is so antiquated and unreliable.

I will try over the course of a few weeks to develop why I think we have a rare historical opportunity to use the Internet to empower the people within our democracy and try to answer some of your excellent responses.

ex animo
davidfarrar

"government and big business grow stronger and more powerful"

Absolutely. The title of Thom Hartmann's excellent book summarizes it; Unequal Protection: The rise of corporate dominance and the theft of human rights. (it's meticulously referenced)

It's fascinating and chilling to track the history of how big business is taking over of our Republic. The added dimension of corporate control of the media makes it especially easy. I share your optimism that the internet change the equation.

Systemic solutions are difficult, and as you say, it could be too late. Hartmann argues that the legal fiction of "corporate personhood" is the single greatest instrument whereby companies acquire human rights. It's intriguing to think how eliminating that single factor could change things.

The only chance I see of taking back Washington is to get the influence of money out of politics and the news. Clearly, with politicians always having their hand out to finance campaigns, big spenders get heard, and big business has too big a voice. And an informed electorate is essential to democracy, which is thwarted by a propaganda driven press and dumbed down sensationalistic news.