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So much for change I can believe in (FISA)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/201032.php
Oh well. Telecom immunity is about more than just telecom immunity: it's about how Congress oversees presidential powers. It's about what happens when the president breaks the law. Apparently, the Democratic majority in both houses have decided that when the president breaks their laws, they forgive him. While I had been hoping that, as the leader of the Democratic party, Barack Obama would help to kill this bill, it turns out he's decided to capitulate to the law-breaking of the past eight years. Not only that, but he does so late on a Friday afternoon. It turns out Obama's just as much of a coward as the rest of the Democrats in Congress. As of today, I'll be saving any money I donate to candidates (Tom Udall, for example) who actually believe in our constitution. Sorry, Barack, I can't vote for you any more, either. It's hard to put into words how disappointed I am.
Comments (16)
Haven't decided what this means for my vote but for anyone who wants to jump on Tim Bean or anyone else as being a "single issue voter" realize that this is a 4th Ammendment issue. If your single issue is ethanol subsidies, you're a bad single issue voter. If it's in the bill of rights, it's not a single issue, it's a principle.
June 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
And as destor23 reports below, Hillary Clinton opposes the legislation. That hurts. If this particular policy difference could've been highlighted during the primary, I would have voted for her.
June 20, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Obama and Hillary had identical stances on telecom immunity during the primary so there's nothing that would have changed your vote then. There was no way to tell that Obama would cave in.
June 20, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary announced today she supports it. Stop making her out to be better than Obama. She's not.
June 20, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm disappointed as well, but still will vote for Obama. The alternatives are simply too ugly and he has committed to working to remove immunity for telcoms. Furthermore, it is my sincere belief that, post-election, if Dems increase their majorities and with a strong party leader, as Obama has demonstrated that he is, we will see this entire issue revisited.
June 20, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
It will be too late. Once the law takes effect, the judges will dismiss the lawsuits. Once the lawsuits are dismissed they'll never be brought again. Doesn't matter if the law changes later. The courts are not going to let the plaintiffs have two bites at the apple. Once immunity is granted it can't be taken away.
June 20, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Point taken. Then let's see how committed he is now to the removal of the immunity clause.
June 20, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uhm, wrong. First, civil immunity and criminal immunity are different. Second, this isn't like double jeopardy or speedy trial. There is no rule that immunity that is temporarily conferred for past acts cannot be taken away again (however, any confessions given in reliance upon immunity would be inadmissible. Do you expect Telecom execs and politicians to start confessing? I don't). If you have a cite to the USC or to an article of the Constitution that says otherwise, I would love to see it. Immunity conferred right now will certainly protect any actions taken from now on, but the past acts were criminal. And the telecoms were not relying on a promise of immunity when the acts were committed. There is no implied promise here, or an contract argument that would prevent the removal of immunity.
June 20, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly, I just don't get it. Did anyone expect ANY sort of outcry if he'd come out against FISA? It is just such a weirdly uncharacteristic, timid position. Very deflating. It has weird echoes of HRC's 'I'm voting for the War because I'm against the War' sophistry.
I'm with destor23. This is about the Bill of Rights and making it utterly clear to corporate America that transgressing those rights will, and should, cost them dearly.
I hope the netroots reaction inspires a real stand on No Retroactive Immunity and this abomination dies in the Senate. Of course, with Doormat Reid on the case, I'm more than a little worried.
June 20, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Outcry from whom? I expected no outcry from the likes of us. However, I expected him to be savaged by the corporate media and right wing talk radio if he came out against it. And I expect that the uber-stupid terror moms would make him pay the price on election day, the same way they shit their little pants over threat level orange and pulled the lever for Bush in 2004.
And as for saying you can't vote for Obama? Give me a fucking break. Make no mistake: Fighting violations of the Fourth Amendment is my profession. I take it very seriously. But to say I wouldn't vote for Obama over it? Ridiculous. I am also a mom who hates NCLB and wants the war to end. I am also an environmentalist who opposes off-shore drilling and drilling in ANWR. I am also a former prosecutor who wants Bush and his cronies investigated for war crimes and Obama is the only one on record to even consider it. I am also the CEO of my household who can no longer afford to buy a fucking bag of grapes without applying for a second mortgage. I am also a homeowner who has lost a massive amount of equity in her house because the Republicans fought against states who tried to regulate the mortgage industry and I am surrounded by a community of foreclosures. Last, I am a lawyer who thinks torture and war crimes are very, very bad.
Not voting for Obama is a vote for McCain, whether you actually pull the lever or just stay home. Give me a fucking break!
June 20, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
What makes you think that if Obama sells out on this very important issue that he will not sell out on all the others just like the entire crowd of cowardly DC Democrats has done for years? I think you faith is badly misplaced. This issue is a harbinger of things to come from Obama and it isn't a good harbinger at all.
June 20, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is totally deflating. I have lost all enthusiasm for Obama, and any realistic hope that we'll see anything except cosmetic change if he gets elected. Sure, he's a better gut for the job than McCain, but again the corporate centrists are consolidating their chokehold on our nation.
June 20, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Republican troll.
June 21, 2008 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are the change you've been waiting for.
~Hopi proverb
Contact your senators please.
June 20, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary will still say anything to get elected. Ask yourself why she doesn't support the FISA Telecom immunity bill.
The problem is that since Obama supports the immunity bill, it's clear that Obama will say anything to get elected as well.
June 20, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reposted from other blog:
Has anyone else contacted Obama's office via fax, e-mail, snail mail or carrier pigeon? He tells us to demand full disclosure from our elected representatives about their votes and to communicate with them (in a positive manner) about actions we're concerned about whether it be votes or anything relating to their elected office.
So, I'm faxing his office and hope you all communicate positively with both Obama and your state's US Senators. (Both of my states Senators are Republicans - and I do contact them, but usually they just send back a form letter basically saying, 'We're Republicans and don't care about you or what you think!')
If We, The People, do want to change (in this case the FISA travesty) our government's business as usual mode - then we have to take responsibility to do our part.
Simply put - Stand up, Speak out - or SHUT UP! Quit blogging and fax, e-mail, etc NOW!
June 20, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
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