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If FISA Pissed You Off..Just Wait
The "netroots" have been throwing mass hissy fits over FISA for a couple of weeks. Well, whatever, if the "FISA cave" twisted your undergarments, just wait a couple of weeks.
Bush appears for all the world to be setting the Demo Leadership up, preparing the battle space for his hit on Iran - the Grand Finale
Evidence? Lots of Sunday reading. We've seen this movie before. Covert ops now going on under classified Presidential budget cover and a very public effort to lay the groundwork for draconian sanctions of the kind imposed on Iraq.
Cole:
Sunday afternoon viewing:
Ron Paul on Iran and the energy crisis. He argues that speculation about a US or Israeli strike on Iran is driving some of the increase in oil prices.
The OPEC president should know a thing or two about what drives oil prices and he agrees.
Just because Ron Paul's from Texas don't mean he's a total idiot Bush, DeLay, Gramm, Perry, Cornyn et al to the contrary notwithstanding
As Seymour Hersh points out in his latest Preparing the Battle Field, Bush has been conducting covert operations for some time
Paul is talking about HCON Res 362, the "Iran War Resolution" which is coming to a vote on July 8
Comments (31)
Are you expecting Senator Obama to support Senate Res. 580?
June 29, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sounds of silence.
June 29, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course. It's Sunday night, at what time? What, exactly, do you expect?
Maybe instead of offering some instant "take" to placate gotcha guys like Billy Glad, I and many others will investigate that particular resolution and have an informed opinion on it later on.
June 29, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Harsh.
June 30, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since BG has not seen fit to elucidate, perhaps because he considers it to be esoteric knowledge* or perhaps because he knows nothing more about the subject than what he read in McCutchen's link, 580 is the Senate version, sponsored by Evan Bayh, of the House resolution 362. They're very similar.
Both bills have been sponsored by Dems. These bills are all about political gamesmanship, attempts by Dems to express toughness on Iran without endorsing the use of military force. Needless to say, they're non-binding.
362: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hc110-362
580: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=sr110-580
My take: it doesn't matter whether these bills pass or what Obama says about them. They're meaningless explosions of compressed political air.
* Esoteric knowledge: Insinuations of knowledge unattainable by masses, the chief value of which is to make yourself seem smart and others stupid. I like the footnote by Lux (another Glad avatar?) implying that no one has responded because of ignorance, as if replying to a pointless and content-free Glad comment were a measure of intelligence.
June 30, 2008 1:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Reconsidering my comment, which was unnecessarily caustic towards BG and probably wrong about Lux. I retract the causticity. Not to mention the wrongness.
June 30, 2008 1:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since you're not anonymous, I'm happy to respond. My question wasn't what 580 was, it was whether or not the point to the post was that Obama was supposed to be supporting it the way he supported the FISA compromise. If that's the point, it might be worth considering the apparent success the Bush admin has had negotiating with North Korea and the impact that success might have on decisions about 580.
I wonder if you've considered how people feel when they're reduced to Billy Glad sock puppets? Just for the record, I don't have one. I only post under Billy Glad.
June 30, 2008 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought about that afterward, especially since I was just burned by such an accusation, hence my retraction. I also realized that your point may not have been a knowledge challenge--it seemed that way when coupled with Lux's criticism.
Care to answer your own question? As I've said, I think that these resolutions constitute posturing. Bush doesn't need them to take the actions they urge him to take, and since they're non-binding, they can't force him to take any actions either. It's a way for Dems to appear tough on Iran. Obama will take a position that maximizes political expedience because these resolutions don't matter
June 30, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure. I answered it downthread. I think Bayh tried to craft something Obama could vote for.
June 30, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just a quick appeal to authority here -- MJ Rosenberg seems to think that these bills do, indeed matter. He's not one to get worked up over nothing.
June 30, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Destor. For others, here's the link to Rosenberg post: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/21/169_house_77_dems_and_26_senat_1/
His concern is that the resolution would provide Bush cover to implement steep sanctions and a naval blockade which would force Iran to respond militarily.
I still insist that the resolution has no impact. Bush has the power to impose a blockade, and I don't think that he regards the legislature to be an impediment. That said, I am persuaded that this is bad bill. Even if there is no impact, Bush doesn't need any encouragement from Dems.
June 30, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just in case you need to prove you're not me, use this. I thought Destor was being snarky about Rosenberg.
June 30, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shit. Now my snarkdar is off too.
June 30, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too late, Genghis - you can't deny it any longer. We all know that you are just Billy Glad with a flashy collar.
June 30, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
I confess. I am Billy Glad. I'm also gotalife, goatlife, gotawife, and Eric Kleefeld / Greg Sargent. Sometimes I spoof Josh Marshall.
And yes, I'm the baby too. To whomever is reading this comment, you may be the only member of the cafe who is not me.
June 30, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although, I don't know who else you may be, I KNOW I'm not you. ;)
June 30, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's what you think
June 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate it when you're Bee
June 30, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
My own man.
No relation to BG.
No implication intended
Just a fishing line.
Bites, but no hooks.
The big one got away
June 30, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am Malcolm X.
Sorry, Spike Lee made me do that.
June 30, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
This could be a big problem in many ways, none of them good If you don't have time to read Hersh's article, you can listen to him at:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/2008/07/07/080707on_audio_hersh
I'm not going to speculate on how this might play out but I would suggest letting your representative know how you feel about the resolution. It is going to be much easier for Obama to handle it if the bulk of the Democratic party says, "No way." Pelosi is not a co-sponsor of HR 320 yet. Even Republicans and those who support McCain should be concerned about this. If the citizens don't object, what are the representative supposed to think? Which side of this do you really think the voting public is on?
June 29, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
My bad. It is H.CON.RES.362 (not 320). Regrets.
Here's the link.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.CON.RES.362:
June 30, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the link to the Senate Resolution 580.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=sr110-580
Insiders are worried about this enough to talk to Hersh. Given the administration's attitude about those who do not agree, how worried do you think those who are talking are?
June 30, 2008 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Scientific and Ghengis,
Gee whiz, cut Billy Glad some slack. Even people who don't read the Federal Register or Roll Call everyday ought to be capable of looking up a Senate resolution on their own.
June 30, 2008 8:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Compared to the House version, the Senate version appears to be a hastily thrown together resolution almost anyone could vote for, since it explicitly rejects the use of force. Interesting switch from banning exports of refined petroleum to Iran (House version) to banning "imports" of refined petroleum to Iran in the Senate version. Probably a slip of the hasty pen? I agree the Senate version is an attempt to provide cover of Senate dems, including Obama.
June 30, 2008 8:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bush appears for all the world to be setting the Demo Leadership up, preparing the battle space for his hit on Iran - the Grand Finale
I don't think so John McCutchen.
And here is why, because Bush and Cheney really, really want these "no-bid" contracts between Iraq and Western oil companies to be signed TODAY, so Hersh was peddleing the usually threats to Iran to STAY OUT of these contracts or else.
I mean really, how is bombing Iran going to stablize any business deals with Western oil contracts in Iraq. It would not, it most certainly would not.
June 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like Big Oil is now going to get their old oil fields in Iraq back on their balance sheets. They must want the ones they lost in Iranian Revolution back just as much.
What the fuck is going on, phase III of Mission Accomplished? Was taking oil fields back behind the plans of this administration from the bigining? It seems to me that the security of an oil companies assets takes a VERY broad interpretation of what is and isn't National Security to commit our countries Army to large scale fighting and dying.
June 30, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Follow the money.
June 30, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, yeah... securing the oil for the oil companies of the west was the entire reason for the illegal/immoral invasion of Iraq and is the motivation for the attack on Iran they want so badly.
June 30, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
oleeb...not sure if you are mocking me, or agreeing with me?
Well....the oil companies did lose their oil fields (investments) in 1972 when Saddam Hussein natinalized them and, the oil companies again lost their investments in Iran during the revolution.
I'm wondering if George and Dick getting them back is what our entire Middle East policy over the last seven years is all about?
June 30, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't recovered from my anger over the USA PATRIOT Act. It is little better than Hitler's enabling act. Yes, I'm going to mention him because the acts bear comparison. Without the PATRIOT Act none of the others would have been possible. Congress didn't even have the text of it before it was passed. It was a laundry list of what intelligence and law enforcement officials had been chomping at the bit for for decades. And they got their wish all rolled into one little package. No they weren't responsible for 9/11 but they sure took advantage of it.
America is a hybrid police state. We still have a lot of freedoms, but we have had a lot of restrictions placed upon us. I know the next time I fly overseas I will not be taking a laptop.
June 30, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
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