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Hillary's Asking Her Working Class Voters to Pay her Debt?
I realize Senator Obama has asked his supporters (I'm one of them) to help retire Senator Hillary Clinton's campaign debts, but I'm not so sure I understand why it's our duty to help her do that.
Most candidates when they run out of money, stop campaigning; Hillary on the other hand insisted on digging herself more into a hole by continuing to campaign. Why is this bad judgement Obama supporter's responsibility? Why must we reimburse her for doing something some would say was 'stupid'.
Most people when their income is less than their liabilities, stop spending money, they don't continue going in to debt hoping their neighbors will pay the bills for them later.
Hillary's insistance on campaigning was bad judgement. Plain and simple.
Unless of course, the DNC asked her to stay in the race, to cover all 50 States to build up campaign bases in each; then of course, it would be the DNC's responsibility to pay her back.
If that was the case however, voters should be told the truth. Otherwise, it's extremely rude to ask a person barely surviving on their monthly income (Hillary's working class man/woman) to donate money to an ex-candidate that is already a multi-millionare and will only get richer as time goes on with more book deals.
One might get the idea that Senator Hillary Clinton is bribing Senator Obama; Pay my bills or I won't help you win in November (I'm not so sure he 'needs' the Clintons; but why should he (we) be forced to pay her bills either way?).
I haven't heard Mitt Romney ask to be reimbursed for his millions he spent campaigning against John McCain, have you?
No Senator Obama, I'm sorry, but I disagree with you on this one. Give me more of what I need to hear, and maybe I'll change my mind.
Comments (55)
Asking supporters to help retire an opponents campaign debt is not all that unusual. What is unusual is the amount and the person, thus making this one a tad more high profile :)
June 25, 2008 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just, can't let that Clinton phobia of yours go can you connie
June 25, 2008 9:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have to agree that it seems strange for a millionaire like Clinton, whose campaign was at least partially run to gratify her ego (especially toward the end), to ask others to reimburse her debt. If those who bail her out are also rich, I guess I don't care, but I'd hate to see median-income supporters having to make sacrifices to help protect the assets of a millionaire.
One thing you said made me laugh: "Most people when their income is less than their liabilities, stop spending money . . ." Oh if only that were true in America!
June 25, 2008 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Have to admit, that comment is RARE...LOL
I don't care if ANYBODY donates to Hillary, but it should be THEIR decision. I was under the impression (I've been told I am wrong) that Obama would be donating money to her campaign from the donates he got from people like me.
That would be wrong in my view....for ANY candidate. As you note, I mention Romney - he's also a millionaire but didn't ask ANYBODY to help pay for HIS campaign debt.
June 25, 2008 9:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
not only would that be wrong, but i'm also pretty sure its illegal.
June 25, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama can give her $2300 like anyone else. That's it. I would hold on to the cash, if I were him!
June 25, 2008 11:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Connie,
This is not at all unusual. I think you need to get over it Connie. You dont have Hillary to bash anymore. Just let go.
Personally, his offer to help retire HRC's campaign debt just inspired me to make my first BHO contribution this morning.
June 25, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
No one has a responsibility to donate. You don't have to if you so choose. Others can. Pretty standard.
It's kind of like a good faith gesture.
June 25, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not so sure he 'needs' the Clintons;
It's difficult to stop laughing when I read that. Your boy won almost half of the votes in his own nomination process and you say you're 'not sure if you need the other half' to win in November?
Stupidity on stilts...
June 25, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the situation were as you describe it in the 2nd clause, then you have used the wrong wording in the first.
Clinton would be the one demanding a bribe, and Obama the briber. The one who delivers money or a gift is the briber; the one who delivers a favor or a service in return is the bribed.
And, as you say in the first sentence of the OP, the fact of the matter is that Obama has capitulated, and is asking his supporters to help pay her debt.
Senator Obama is doing the bribing by proxy through his supporters. Senator Clinton may very well have elicited this action through a threat, as you speculate.
So interpret it like this, if you must: "Senator Clinton demanded a bribe from Senator Obama, and now he says that we (his supporters) have to bribe Senator Clinton by retiring her debt, or she'll scuttle our chances in the GE."
But don't construct a clause that is patently incorrect, simply to make it seem like Senator Clinton is the primary agent of wrong:
June 25, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
None of the 18 million who voted for her give a shit about your opinion. You weren't going to give anyway. And all you do is make her supporters who hear you less likely to support your candidate. But you're dense, you just keep repeating the same drivel over and over again and simply can't stop yourself. And I'm sure you concern about "working class voters" is quite sincere.
June 25, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
about as sincere as hillary's concern for them.
June 25, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah. its BS that Obama has to help $100 Mill Hill pay her bills. I have considerably less than 100 million dollars and yet, i'm somehow able to pay my own bills.
but thats the price hillary is extracting. whatever. as long as it shuts her up. it's not like i'm going to be giving her any of my hard earned money, so what do i care if someone else chooses to foolishly do so?
June 25, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a couple of pennies - how about you go and shut up now too?
June 25, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
pennies are practically worthless. you wanna shut me up, slip me a c-note.
June 25, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the key question: What should Senator Obama's priority be; should he put raising money to pay off the debt that Senator Clinton amassed, long after it was clear that she could not win the nomination, and was only using the borrowed money to hurt his image, ahead of making sure that he raises enough money to make sure that he does not run short of funds during the main event?
First things first: Should Senator Obama put paying his own ongoing campaign bills ahead of Hillary Clinton's past bills which were accumulated after she could no longer win the nomination.
There is an old story about a woman who had two pet chickens that she loved with all her heart. One of the chickens took very ill, so the woman made chicken soup out of the healthy pet, in an effort to restore the sick bird.
Is that what you want to do with the Obama campaign? Do you really want him to starve his own funding efforts in order to try and nourish the sick one.
Priorities folks, priorities. Winning back the White House comes first. Hillary is not going to become homeless.
June 25, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do not understand why those 18
million 'supporters' of HRC haven't chipped in to assist clearing her debts instead of many demanding Obama take responsibility.
This is not snark - sincere musing. Anyone have answer?
(Wonder how much the PUMA brigade has contributed?) (Okay, that's snark.)
June 25, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
We have. We just wonder if you all are going to keep insulting her or thank her a little bit for pitching in and being post-partisan. Which is it?
June 25, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
"....just wonder if you all are going to keep insulting her"
Have to be careful with generalities - not all Obama supporters have insulted her. It's not prudent or factual to use this type of statement in your pro-Hillary posts.
I, for one, think she would do a great job in cabinet position to oversee creation, implementation of positive healthcare program which would benefit all.
Note: All of us need to be respectful and not denigrate either Obama or HRC. It serves no useful purpose except to create more chaos and negativity. Obama's message has been for himself and to also ask of his supporters to be positive and respectful. HRC has also asked her supporters to do the same and to now support the DNC nominee. And these are two good people who are setting examples for the rest of us to follow.
June 25, 2008 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some points of merit:
Despite some people's insistence that anyone who voted for Hillary is a "Hillary Supporter" (e.g. one of the die-hards), the touted 18M figure is a bit inflated.
While it's not unusual for a candidate to go back to their supporters, it is unusual for those supporters not to have been very wealthy. In other words, you go back to the wealthy donors in private dinners, etc. So what Hillary is doing *is* unusual.
With her campaign run, Hillary showed how she failed to key aspects of presidential leadership:
a) being careful to stay within budgets (this is the 2nd time it's happened, her 2006 Senate run spent way too much money even if it didn't put her in the red)
b) not leading by example. Hillary should retire her own debt, or at least 50% of it.
I firmly believe that one of Hillary's supporters examples here said it best: she was donating to help people with a chance to win an election now, not Hillary's debt. So, I recommend donating to Obama, or your local Senate/House races with that money.
I'm so very tired of Hillary's issues taking center stage on the national agenda. Do you hear about other campaign's debts to this degree?
Put the damned Clintons on a reality show: they get the exposure they crave and we can purify our national dialog by focusing on more relevant issues.
June 25, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do care about the small vendors who have been shafted. Penn and his comrades can take the hit. HRC's loan is not something I believe should be in the mix either.
I'd like to see HRC's website post exactly where the donations to date have been applied. And hope the MSM reports the data. I would be likely to contribute it I was assured I could target where my $$$$ would end up.
June 25, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aunt Sam:
I've been on TPM multiple times with the same thought:
a) I have no sympathy for any vendor that worked with her after it came out her campaign was stiffing people. It's the same as taking any credit risk.
b) It's unfortunate others got stiffed before that story came out. However, there should continue to be pressure on Hillary to pay this off.
Maybe then we won't hear the disingenuous comments about she cares about the "working people;" right up until she doesn't need their vote.
June 25, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many vendors got stiffed?
How much money?
How many have been paid in full now?
How much is still within terms of the service?
(30 days, 60 days, 90 days)
Amazing number of concern trolls.
Think of it this way - she raised $240 million and loaned her campaign perhaps $10 million and spent maybe $260 million. So she created a quarter of a billion dollars of business for these workers and still needs to pay off 5%. Did you ever have such a great effect on the economy? How much did workers make off of John Edwards? Bill Richardson? Chris Dodd? A couple mill?
So why don't you all just go f off? You've invested so much time and energy into hating one person and obsessing on ever crack in the sidewalk she might have stepped on and keep managing to insult her supporters every step of the way.
June 26, 2008 3:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's big donors had donated the legal limit. I'm sure Obama was encouraging his big donors to contribute to Hillary, since they can still contribute the legal limit to her.
June 25, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can donate a bit more to Hillary - I'm not maxed out yet - and I can still donate to Obama - if I feel like it.
Any Obama supporters care to persuade me why I might want to do that?
June 25, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cause I'll send $10 to Hillary.
And I'll send you $10, Des, so you can go to a movie the next time she posts. I know that's where I'll be. Makes me look forward to Smokey & The Bandit IV.
Gaaaaaaaaah. I used to have a dog that ate its own shit. Sometimes, when I read stuff like this, I see him all over again.
June 25, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have a light touch with a metaphor, sir - there used to be a great theatre where they showed all the old Bergman, Truffaut, Fellini films, but I think they knocked it down. Anyway, popcorn's on me.
June 26, 2008 4:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
because if you don't practice what you preach you're a hypocrite.
telling others to donate to hillary, but you're not willing to donate to barack (who's the freaking nominee, btw which is more than you can say about hillary) is the height of hypocrisy.
June 25, 2008 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
But I like Hillary and I don't much like Obama - I'd be a hypocrite if I gave him money. So why don't you convince me why I should like him instead of calling me names? Aside from "McCain's going to get you if you don't", I already read that bedtime story.
June 26, 2008 4:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't see any problem with what she's doing, and overall, I've been impressed with how she's handled herself since dropping out.
For her own sake though, I think she would make it easier for herself if she just came out and said that the "loan" she gave her campaign wouldn't be a loan anymore and that she was taking the hit for it. She has alluded to it, but there is still enough ambiguity in what she says that might lead people to believe that they could be donating to the Clintons' bank account. It's a big hit to take, but it would make raising money to help pay off the rest much easier.
June 25, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't that exactly what she did?
June 25, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
A Modest Proposal:
Senator Obama should wait until after the election to hold fundraising events to pay off Senator Clinton's campaign debts. He will have a a couple of months time between the election and inauguration to help her. That would be the appropriate time to do so, since he should not dilute his own fund raising efforts in order to win the election. Keep your eyes on the prize. It is the White House, not Senator Clinton's debt relief. First things first.
June 25, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's illegal to donate to a candidate for their primary AFTER the primary has ended (the party's convention ends the primary)
June 25, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reply to liam.
Senator Clinton needs to start getting her money back now. The primary race ends in August with the convention. After the race ends, any personal loans by the candidate to their own race can only be paid back up to 250,000$(a very tiny drop in her big bucket). The rest of the debt can be resolved later. (This infromation was on Slate explainer a while back.)
I have tried to find out other primaries like this one where the winner helps the loser retire thier debt. I am very curious if this is a normal practice or something that is just one of those things that gets repeated over and over until we all believe it is normal but in reality it has never happened before. I am going to have to do some serious digging - nothing googled up so far. If any one has ideas I'd love to hear them.
June 25, 2008 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Connie, you nailed exactly what toot many have ignored about the Hillary campaign debt:
Most candidates when they run out of money, stop campaigning; Hillary on the other hand insisted on digging herself more into a hole by continuing to campaign. Why is this bad judgement Obama supporter's responsibility?
What Hillary SHOULD do, given that her indebtedness is a consequence of her incomptence and neurotic lust for power, is pay it herself, from what she and Bill have boodled since leaving the White House. Being Clintons, such an honorable act is unthinkable; far better to nourish their inexhaustible sense of entitlement by politely blackmailing Obama and the Democratic party.
June 25, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually most candidates end primary season with debt. It's extremely rare not to ... and this is going back decades.
But of course, why let the facts get in the way of your Saint Obama meme that only stupid bitches run up debts and can't be trusted around money.
June 25, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish you would read a little more before you post.
Obama has asked donors to repay the vendors debts and not Hillary's.
Clinton said the same thing in asking for help for her vendors.
No one mentioned her personal debt.
June 25, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary did - she said it was off the table.
But Obama supporters want to be bitter. Funny, that.
June 25, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary has 18 million supporters, as has been so tiresomely
proclaimed, why does she need any help at all? A dollar apiece would do it, with change to spare.
June 25, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because a lot of those donors have given the maximum $2300 already.
June 25, 2008 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
All 18 million of them? How did Hillary run out of money? Must have been some shopping spree!
June 25, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that must be it because you know you can't trust bitches with the money. They just can't do math can they?
June 25, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll probably send her another $100, and if there's another 199,999 like me, it's paid off. And then we can sit home in November and watch as the not-quite-unity crowd breaks up on the rocks. Think of it as pay-per-view and it's not a bad deal.
June 26, 2008 3:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another Modest Proposal.
Since Senator Clinton is asking for donations to pay off her vendors, then it should be transparent, and the donors should be able to look up the vendors and the amounts they are owed, and a detailed accounting of what goods and services were provided. I imagine a lot of people would not want to have their donations going to reward Mark Penn, but would be willing to help pay some other vendors etc.
Senator Clinton needs to set up an online site that shows all the details, and allows donors to contribute to paying the vendors of their choice. Their should be a running tally showing how much has been donated toward paying off each vendor, and the Clintons should have no discretion in actually how the donations are disbursed. They should only go in direct payments to the vendors that the donors have selected their contributions to go to. That way we could make sure that the little guys, who need help the most, get paid first.
What do you folks think about this suggestion?
June 25, 2008 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
So her campaign should go further in debt setting up a database and web site so idiots like you, who would never donate a dollar anyway, can pore over her financials?
Yeah, that's about as good an idea as voting for a guy who when he wasn't a Senator swears he would have voted agains the use of force resolution but once he actually is a Senator decides that his promise to vote against telcomm immunity is trumped by "national security"
June 25, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well aren't you a real charmer. Apparently you are too stupid to understand that her campaign bills are going to become public knowledge any way, and they sure will get a lot of terrible publicity when the small guys start to file suits.
You clearly have no idea of how little an effort it would take to set up the online site in the manner I suggested, and yes I would be willing to donate to pay off some vendors such as little restaurants etc, that can not afford to carry such a big loss.
How about you big mouth. What is your solution?
June 25, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually I develop web sites for my job and it's not a trivial thing to create a secure, non-hackable, site that has access to the financials in a queryable manner. But of course you're so stupid everything to you must be simple.
"I took an HTML class in junior high school and I set up my own facebook page so I know this is easy to set up."
Go back to trailer and keep praying to Saint Obama, loser
June 25, 2008 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good idea. All those willing to give something to pay off small vendors could just PayPal the vendors directly.
June 25, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those vendor debts wouldn't have happened if Hillary hadn't insisted on staying in, even tho her FUNDING had STOPPED for the most part. Most candidates get OUT, when that happens.
Some how I doubt that there were 6 million donors that maxed out. She wants 12.
I repeat, this isn't about HILLARY - it's about ANY candidate that gets theirself in debt, insisting on running even tho the money has stopped. No different then if I kept adding to my credit card, even tho I would never have the income to pay it off.
I do NOT hate Hillary. I donated to her campaign in the beginning - it was only after I saw the way she ran her campaign that I backed away from her.
We keep hearing how we should allow Hillary and Bill time to HEAL and FORGIVE what was said or done toward them -- when does Obama get that chance?
I love hearing the pundits CLAIM that Obama is JUST NOW talking to the working class and women while campaigning. He's ALWAYS been talking to them (I'm one of them) -- Hillary's supporters just ignored him because they wanted either another Clinton in the White House or they wanted the first Woman there. Check out his OLD speeches - the content is there, the offerings are there.
June 25, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a stupid and ridiculous and backwards looking post. Nobody has to contribute if they choose not to. I love the poster's suggestion that candidates who run out of money have some kind of ethical obligation to cease campaigning. How eminently Darwinian and anti-democratic and anti-Democratic. Dumb, divisive, and, well just plain dumb.
By the way, the poster should also be called on her failure to do basic research; this is not about Hillary Clinton's personal debt, and the poster would have us believe otherwise.
June 25, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one is twisting their arms. Pay or not. What's the big deal.
June 25, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
You and I are in agreement. HRC won't get a penny from me. Her arrogance got her into this situation. Let her and Bill fork over the funds.
June 25, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus.
June 25, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Glad to see you're more focused on talking about Obama rather than criticizing Clinton.
June 25, 2008 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
One might get the idea that Senator Hillary Clinton is bribing Senator Obama; Pay my bills or I won't help you win in November
That is blackmail, not bribe.
June 25, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
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