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Going to the Unity Rally and Shredding the Negativity
Today, I was at the Unity Rally with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, in Unity, New Hampshire. It was quite an experience, I must say. I was originally going to write a long, boring, redundant post about how my day went and what exactly I did. Rather than bore you with that, I'm going to just write about my feelings now, in the aftermath. The aftermath of the rally, which ended in Claremont, NH in a total and complete downpour (ironic considering Obama and Clinton walked on stage to U2's 'Beautiful Day'. To be fair, it was hot, bright and sunny throughout the entire rally itself). In a way, though, it's also the aftermath of the many months past... And the aftermath of the most immediate past.
Being there, at the rally, among so many other enthusiastic people... listening, in person, in the midst of the moment, the energy, and the excitement, to Hillary and Barack speak... Speak about unity and coming together, beating John McCain... In person, in front of them, not more than maybe 20 feet from me...
I realized, there are so many freaking crucial things. So many freaking important issues. So much that really, truly is at stake. And because of that, I'm giving up on the negativity. I am absolutely tired of all the pointless, useless, spiteful, arrogant, irrational, idiotic, disgusting, trivial, derogatory, disparaging, petty and foolish fighting amongst ourselves.
After so much bitching, moaning, arguing, justisying, attacking, excusing, bashing, supporting, and explaining, I realize that I know pretty much every single view on the god foresaken FISA issue. After having spoken to some of my friends outside of TPM about it, I could anticipate every single point and argument they made, on every angle of the issue.
And after all that, after so much time, effort and energy spent on this one single fucking issue, the end point is still the same: John McCain cannot get elected.
People, do what you want. Attack each other, bash each other, insult each other, demoralize each other. Don't tell me it's just friendly debate, because it's not. Believe me, after the shit that I've seen thrown not only at myself, but at others, I can quite truthfully say it's not just friendly debate.
But go for it. Do it if you really want to. What will it accomplish, exactly? No clue. I doubt anything of importance except to make yourselves feel better for being able to whine over the internetz.
I'm done with it, though. I'm done with the negativity. As I have concluded numerous other times previous in my life, negativity solves nothing.
Being at that rally today and watching the crowds go wild... being a part of the enthusiasm and pure positive energy; being a part of that undiluted feeling of hope for the future, I realized that I can no longer take part in the negativity that has infested itself here. No, I'm not leaving TPM. Just the negative part of it. The one that feeds off of criticizing, bashing and attacking. I want no part of it.
I'm going to focus on the future, and abandon the pessimistic in exchange for the optimistic. There's no day like today, and I refuse to lose sight of that.
I'll leave you loyal few readers with a small, almost miniscule happening that took place. I had snuck onto the press bleachers, to get a better view of the Candidates when they arrived, and, of course, during their speeches. As Obama and Clinton stepped onto the stage, they waved and pointed at the crowd. As the waving died down, and Clinton took to the podium, I waved my arm high and strong at Obama. To my surprise, he smiled and waved back. Despite their speeches, which were good; despite the crowd, which was enthused; despite the energy, which was momentous... It was this tiny gesture that I remember the most. A simple friendly wave from Barack Obama.
Comments (60)
AMEN.I mean really, when the republicans start using the left's talking points on how obama has shifted on FISA (albeit, it is the same positon they hold)- things start getting clearer. I DON't GIVE A DAMN ABOUT FISA. When you compare it with the four dollars of gas I drive to school with, the school's budget which has had to cut back on my fellowships because of financial cuts, go to the grocery store to buy 3 dollar carton of milk and then walk in to turn on my fan because I don't have money to fix my A.C all the while picking which bills to forego for this month- things start getting clearer. SO go ahead please vote for McCain for FISA or any other reason, because I am really looking forward to 12 dollar gas.
June 27, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what you are a grad student in, but you clearly are more concerned about things that the government has little control over than what they do.
Thanks for proving my point I've made for a while here:
All the talk about climate change and environmentalism is bogus because as soon as people shiver in the winter, we will drill off shore and drill in ANWR -- and all people will demand it.
The hypocrisy of our "principles" is astounding.
FISA is something that is truly about the government, not the "gimmes" you want from it.
Hey, you may have inspired a blog for me, thanks!
June 28, 2008 2:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now I'll give a big AMEN to THIS. $3, nay $4 a gallon gas isn't going away and I don't really think it should. The only way we're going to get beyond foolish fossil fuel dependence is for prices to keep going up. Breaks should be provided to the low income so that the burden of conservation doesn't fall disproportionately on them. The public needs to be led away from the idea that further despoiliation of the environment is more than a very short term solution.
June 28, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know... You seem like a decent person, though I don't know you aside from this comment, but... You seem to have missed the point of my post entirely.
June 28, 2008 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think he was speaking more generally rather than of you specifically. The comment did start out with AMEN! Though ironic in that it was still a tad bit negative.
June 28, 2008 6:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh no, I get it. I mean, I appreciate the positive feedback. But I guess what I meant by "missing the point" was continuing this raging FISA debate, which I sorely did not want to turn this thread into. There's so many of them. Though, I partly anticipated such a happening. So far, I don't see much of it, and for that I'm glad.
June 28, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Nathan! I think we all need the reminder that politics can be about hope and enthusiasm--not just cynicism. Sometimes we're able to lead, sometimes we have to negotiate and compromise, and sometimes we just have to suck it up and endure. It's not just any one of those things--that's what makes it so difficult. If self-government were easy, it would have been the rule rather than the exception.
June 28, 2008 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Heh, thanks, Jess. I appreciate it. And thanks for getting it, too, if that makes sense.
June 28, 2008 12:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. What a wonderful thing for you to have been there. I'm really, truly jealous.
June 28, 2008 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can experience some of the magic, too. I took a lot of pictures. I have another post here on TPM. Or you could just go directly to my Photobucket album. But I warn you, there's 309 pictures. I haven't sorted them at all, really. But I guess that could be part of the magic. You get to see Obama and Clinton in their... non photo-op-type moments. =)
June 28, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for sharing this and the realism of what we're up against.
I was feeling emotionally nauseated having just read a post at Huffington about how McCain has been at a rally telling people how pleased he is at the GI bill's got through - but doesn't point out that he opposed it...
Reading this perked me.
Off to view your photos in the next thread...
:-)
June 28, 2008 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm very glad I could be of service, and I'm greatly appreciative that you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoy the pictures, too. =)
June 28, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Recommended and agree.
I still reserve the right to bash the shit out of trolls, but only because they've been paid to wreck our fun. I will try to do so in a manner that doesn't add to the more general malaise though.
I will pledge, however, to be more patient with our more naive brethren on the Raging Left when I figure out who they are (they sounds so much like trolls it is hard sometimes.) You are right in that calling them ignorant douche-bags with a very fragile grasp on American history or political context is probably not the best way to promote unity going into the general.
Any tips on how to call someone an ignorant asshole in a nice way?
June 28, 2008 6:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a sweetheart you are, Chrono. I'm glad you had a great experience there and always enjoy interacting with you here on the board.
June 28, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, Carol!
June 28, 2008 9:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Rip! Enjoying some leisure today? Working the home?
June 28, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hehe, you too, Carol. I love reading your comments. You're always a pleasure, and honestly, a constant voice of reason here. Thank you so much!
June 28, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Nathan. Nice work here. Nice work getting to and participating in a historic and moving rally. I, too, have been sick of the negativity around here, but my disgust with it produced a heck of an outpouring of more negativity. There seems to be no stopping it, but I'm happy that there are other souls who understand the larger issues at stake and can see a way forward.
June 28, 2008 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think many are sick of the negativity. But honestly, it's hard to avoid getting sucked into it. I have. I was. But then I just thought about, seriously, what progress is that going to ever get us? None. None whatsoever. Imagine if Hillary has decided to go to the Convention. I mean, honestly. It's that kind of mentality that destroys us. Even if we are just a few lowly bloggers, it has an impact. One tear in an ocean of water still creates a ripple.
June 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm looking forward to seeing Ripper and Chrono giving up the negativity! Yay!
June 28, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still waiting for you to do the same. =)
June 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heh. To quote you, ChronoSpark: Get the fuck over yourself. =)
June 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad you know the difference between past, present and future.
June 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
See? You can't give it up. I knew you couldn't.
June 28, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you believe that my comments are negative, then feel free to. I was under the assumption that we were simply having a delightful little exchange. I apologize if I came across as otherwise.
June 28, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Provocation = negativity, Sparky. Sometimes you're going to be provoked. Not by me, but by someone or something. By the Republicans. By bad news. By nerve-racking slumps in the polls. By life. Then what are you going to do? Push back like you did here with me?
My very first experience of you was extremely negative, Sparky. You were a rabid asshole for some reason. You were so obnoxious I had you pegged for an honest-to-goodness full-time Republican troll. Really. Thread after thread, for a while there.
I'm still reserving judgment about you until I see how you deal with the challenges going forward. How am I supposed to know for sure you're not a troll when you've behaved like a total jackass in the past? Just now you chose to link to comments I made to someone who provoked me. You did that instead of letting it pass. Do you know what the circumstances are surrounding my comments to Economides? Yet you linked to my comments anyway because you don't like them, or you don't like me, or whatever.
You may or may not remember this, but you harassed me for supporting and defending Senator Clinton. I won't ever forget that.
When you treat people like shit, Sparky, they tend not to have a very good opinion of you. Now in this post, you still don't take responsibility for how you've treated other people. That's why I linked to your rant.
It's going to be a long 5 months. I won't provoke you going forward, Sparky. But I am going to hold you to this post and engage you like an adult. If I have a serious question, I'll ask you seriously. If you want to have a serious exchange with me, that's perfectly fine. But I'd prefer you steer clear of situations that don't involve you. Some things are not for you to judge.
Thanks.
I looked at some of your photos, btw. It must have been pretty amazing to see Barack and Hillary together right before your eyes. I'm glad you went.
June 28, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
My very first experience of you was extremely negative, Sparky. You were a rabid asshole for some reason. You were so obnoxious I had you pegged for an honest-to-goodness full-time Republican troll. Really. Thread after thread, for a while there.
Yeah, I guess it's not surprising that that's exactly the same experience I've had with you. Go figure.
gasket, I found your comment incendiary about Ripper and I giving up our negativity. It seemed completely hypocritical given the fact that the perception I have of you is starting such fights and provoking others. I lurk a lot more than I comment. I posted those comments because I felt attacked.
Given our history, it's not surprising that I would feel that way based on your comment. Can you understand that, now?
I did not mean to be a dick, and in the spirit of this thread, I hope that we can put that shit behind us. I am not trying to start fights, and I admit that I came across quite badly there. I do apologize for that.
If you can see where I'm now coming from, perhaps you can do the same.
June 28, 2008 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't start fights. End. Of. Story.
June 28, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Glad you enjoyed the pictures.
June 28, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did.
I mean I didn't look at all 309, of course. ;-)
June 28, 2008 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lawlz. Of course not. I really should clean out the bad pics from the good ones... I'll get around to it one of these days. I'm too lazy at the moment.
June 28, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes you do.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/fisa-grumblers-get-the-hell-ov.php#comment-2932545
June 29, 2008 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. I can't believe you linked to your own vile comments, McCord. That was genius.
Hey, you know what, McCord? When you write a provocative post (which includes the words "Get over it"), that means you want to start a fight with people. It means Game On! Get it? I didn't start anything, you did. In fact, I was the civil one in the exchange you linked to, and I even answered your request for a genuine argument. Not that that mattered.
But what do I know. I'm sure you're an expert on interpersonal relationships.
June 29, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I rec'd this post because it is so wonderful to see positive energy being expressed, and you did it so well with your renewed awareness after attending the unity rally in person.
If folks who adopt negativity could only understand one dynamic, perhaps it would make some difference:
First, there is within everyone a place that will experience letdowns and disappointments and frustrated desires, c'est la vie.......i.e., human reality. That inner place will suffer real hurts, the energy of which can allow 1] first a tentative awareness of others' differences and 2] eventually transmute into a passion for being a more mature and engaged person within the whole scene.
It is the enwrapping layer usually developed outside that deeper one, though, which will bring on the hardness of unsolvable suffering for a person and lead from that to multiplying a continued interactive negativity. That outer layer is defensively ego-protective.....as in, 'if I yield at all, I and my values will disappear'.... or so goes the ego's reasoning. This outer layer is so wrapped up in 'defense', that it will perceive any disagreement as attack and go on to amass a stockpile of remembered but essentially interpreted 'attacks' as handy missiles to throw out in the future 'battles'.
The deeper layer is capable of growing up and expanding. The enwrapping layer ensures an ever tightening regression to school yard dynamics, which is where it probably began to develop in the first place.
Perceiving differences can lead to an opportunity to learn more about another, but, hey, it takes a resilient [rather than defensive] ego to even begin to be able to allow that. Trading barbs of negativity on these threads reinforces the protective layers of the flame throwers and dumbs us all down.
I have written before about the dynamics and limitations of the what I call the errors of duality thinking. And I have been attacked for 'psycho-babbling'. All I really ask is that a reader think about what I have written......I am not seeking nor needing to do anything other than share an insight that was hard won in my own life.
Now, I will indulge my love of positives and go view Nathan's pictures!
June 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you!!! Reading your post, I felt again some of the my-God-this-is-for-real 'different' kind of enthusiasm and determination that was in the air after Iowa, even NH, and SC. Something different afoot and something we ALL have an equal stake in.
And what a wonder it can survive the bruising and sometimes heart-rending primary season. It was very good to see both of them on the stage and (in my opinion) meaning the respect - and the unity of purpose. I feel so sad for those supporters of Hillary's who cannot stay with her in what, I believe, is her finest campaign - one for our country and for, I hope, her own uncharted but perhaps more meaningful achievement down the road.
In the spirit of optimism and unity, I made another small contribution to Obama ($35) ..... and my first one to Clinton ($25), adding a note that it was from an Obama supporter. Anyone want to match me?
June 28, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
First I am a graduate student in Biomedical Engineering, so maybe I may not be as policy oriented as you are, but I glad I think more in logistical terms. By the way, gas was roughly $35 before war and it is now $135- I think the government plays a role. By the way, state budgets being cut means department budgets being cut, so yes it affects education. My point is that you bitching about FISA or sticking it to Obama, will not matter when McCain is president.
June 28, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry graduate student but the price is now over a $140 a barrel. What a difference a day makes!
As far as the rally, I thought Hillary and Obama hit all the right notes.
June 28, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you want to sell out on FISA because Obama waved back at you?????!
Keep shoveling the Unity , there has to be a pony in there somewhere!
Obama thought he was being so cute recycling the old gag about heels. Anything to trivialize his complete failure to react to any of the sexism seen during the primary except to complain when it touched his wife.
On the current evidence, Obama is moving closer and closer to McCain's positions. Obama's opposition to the Iraq War is pretty much a fairy tale to being with -- his support of Joe Lieberman against the anti war candidate in the CT primary combined with his videotaped interview in Chicago saying we should finish the job in Iraq is telling. Since you can't believe a word that Obama says given the freedom with which he renounces his own positions -- whether the DC gun ban is constitutional is a prime example -- why should I trust him with the Oval Office?
When Obama dines alone there are about 10 opinions.
June 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, we should definitely vote for McCain because Obama supported Lieberman in the primary. As did everyone, including Barbara Boxer. But Obama, alone, deserves all the blame for Lamont winning, I guess.
Or something.
June 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama claimed to be anti-Iraq in a significant way -- it was a big reason that he gave why he was the better primary candidate: it was also false as shown by his support for Lieberman who was and is a prime Iraq War supporter and enabler -- so to me Obama's actions speak much louder than his words.
Obama has pulled enough clunkers in foreign policy where he could be expected to have some basic knowledge given his major at Columbia that I expect him to be a complete diaster as President in foreign policy. I expect a major war on his watch on the Afghan Pakistan border.
Mccain will talk tough but he will do all he can to prevent an actual war --- Obama will continue his patter of making irresponsible and inflammatory remarks and will make bad situations worse without a clue as to how to handle them once he is in them.
Do you have any rationale explanation of why Obama would call Jerusalem the undivided capitol of Israel in such an unclear fashion? Rosenberg walked back his remarks to a more sane assumption about Obama's policy but the uproar over his statement as made was entirely foreseeable to any one with a grain of foreign policy comment sense which Obama appears to lack utterly.
June 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate to respond to this, because it's so outside the point of this thread. But some of these statements can't go unchallenged.
Obama came out against the war in 2002, 2003 and 2004 - all while running a Senate campaign, during a time when Bush enjoyed high favorability ratings and the war still had strong public support. Obama has also said that, since we're now in the war, we have to get out carefully. Those things are NOT at odds with supporting Lieberman in 2005/2006 - primarily because no one knew just how much of a turncoat he would be.
"I expect a major war on McCain's watch on the Iranian/Iraqi border."
Interesting contention. And supported just as well as yours. Of course, the US can stop foreign wars - especially in the Middle East - whenever it wants.
Any candidate who supports a war that was started on faulty intelligence, has NO clear goal, and NO clear definition of what it will take to "win" is not a candidate who will "do all he can to prevent an actual war."
Of course, we could just sing "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and justify it with, "Hey, Mahmoud, just jokey-jokes! Chillax!" John McCain is 100x the warhawk George Bush was when he was campaigning in 2000. Bush actually intended a very "humble foreign policy". McCain intends nothing of the sort.
As for Obama, I don't expect him to go looking for fights. He'll be too busy actually trying to do things for the entire country - not just the military complex and its benefactors. But, it IS interesting that he got blasted for suggesting pre-emptive strikes on Pakistan - and three weeks later, what happened?
And tell me again how John McCain has the chutzpah to come out and say how glad he is that Webb's GI Bill got through - after vocally opposing it and wussing out of a vote on the matter? There's a leader we can believe in - just like POTUS 43. *snicker*
June 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow... I was weary to even respond to you. Did you honestly completely miss the point of my post? I mean, seriously? This was precisely what I expected, though til you I had high hopes that no one would make such a grave error (was I really so dense at the time?)
Interpreting this post as really anything to do with FISA, aside from the buckets of hatred and negativity its spewed, is absolutely, positively wrong.
I'll leave it at that. Continue to attack me if you really want to, but such attacks don't deserve my attention. =) Please take them where they're encouraged.
June 28, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
In my rush to respond to the same poster, I forgot to mention that I rec'd your post. Glad you got to go to the rally!
June 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. And I understand your hesitation to respond to his comments because, as you said, they're so outside the point of this thread. But sometimes there is a need to respond. The balance is finding out when and how to respond. How does one adequately respond to such negativity? I'm not sure there's a correct answer. Thank you, though, and thank you for recommending the post. =)
June 28, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama did not react to sexism? Which was the candidate that initiatd the sexism? Thank god the repulsive Hillary lost. She should dissappear and take her equally medacious followers with her.
June 28, 2008 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the post.
And moment of sanity.
June 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your post is a testament to Obama's charge to himself and his supporters to be positive. A call to change negative reaction into positive reaction.
You have captured and conveyed the true sense of 'Unity for Change'. Thanks.
June 28, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you so much.
June 28, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nathan, a very good post. A hard rain to wash away the months of bad feelings generated by hard campaigning. So apropos.
June 28, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for a great, positive post! You know, I think your story illustrates what the whole point of having and electing leaders is ideally all about. Leaders cannot and will not ever be able make everything right or satisfy all our needs and aspirations. But, a leaders who project positive energy and express aspirations that are generally in tune with our own provide a focus for people of good will to come together, recognize their common purpose, and find the power and enthusiasm within themselves to carry on and do what must be done. And when people are united in a common purpose with a positive and receptive leader, they (people and leader) can work together and inspire each other. It's a symbiotic relationship.
June 28, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right. I agree entirely. And you know, it's true: a leader cannot please everyone, or accomplish all the goals that we want him or her to accomplish. It's not going to happen. But really, even if my candidate is not 100% in tune with me (and I never expect them to be), a feeling of positive energy, a feeling of inspiration, and yes, a feeling that change for the better can actually take place... That can trump the misgivings can have.
June 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
...the misgivings one can have. Damn you, TPM, and your lack of an EDIT feature!
June 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Chrono, I was there yesterday myself! It was great to read your post! What an experience to be there. I too felt the desire to shed the anger and unite for change! I was stuck between a sobbing Hillary nut and a very pessimistic sarcastic anti hillary woman, both jabbering in my ears. I will definitely be looking through your pictures. Anyway, I am not very sharp with the blogging, but do enjoy the TPM. Thanks again.
June 28, 2008 5:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a small world after all! ...I had to. ;D
So you got the best of both worlds, it seems. Hah. I hope you had a good view, though, and that it was worth it nonetheless. It sounds like it was.
I hope you enjoy the pictures!
June 28, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMG, Chrono, I made a total ass of myself to grap barack's hand and shake it. Like a real idiot, all I could say was "I Love You!" . Guess I was caught up in the enthusiasm of the moment. Or I was saying what I felt in my heart. I found several bruises on my legs last night that I couldn't recall getting! Oh, yeah, I was sitting in the bleachers, where a got very bleached in the heat, behind the podium. I came from WRJ, Vermont, not too far from Unity. It was a once in a lifetime day for me.
June 29, 2008 6:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Chrono. You brought back some of the bloom on the rose that had started to fade for me.
June 28, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good to see some postive posts again. Helps us all keep our eye on the prize - thanks!
June 28, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Recommended!
June 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you to everyone for their positive feedback! It means so much, it really does. It's unfortunate that everyone is never going to be positive about things. Politics is full of negativity, pain, hurt, disappointment, anger, sadness, frustration, and a whole host of other negative emotions. But it can also be about hope and change, enthusiasm and excitement, and really, as hard as it is to imagine sometimes, happiness.
My hope is that the majority of us, not only here on TPM, but all across the country, can cling not to those negatives, but to these positives. I'm glad there are so many of you that have already embraced such an ideology. Let's not stop here.
June 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen
June 28, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
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