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Following the Rules
I came across a picture today at a blog few of you would like. Rosa Parks, not following the rules. Being disobedient. I was going to chuckle and keep going - too partisan. But then the metaphor and irony stuck with me a bit more, expanded in my head.
There's Butch Cassidy saying, "First thing's, we gotta discuss the rules." "But Butch, there's never been no rules before!" Kick. Scream. Drop. "Right. There are no rules". This is classic America. We may have rules, but our history is based on bending rules, getting the most out of them you might say. "Think Different". I've worked around the world under a lot of rules. And the Americans were out front in being willing to break the rules to get things done - written rules or informed rules in our heads. And also out in front in helping complete strangers.
Some of us know about the horrors of World War I, where bright generals sent wave after wave of tender soldiers across the lines to be cut up like so much dog meat. Following the accepted rules of warfare, not questioning authority or the new conditions in the field. Americans invented modern warfare in the Civil War, and with our quick response in the field, our tying in new management techniques in with improved logistics, we're easily the best in the world. If people play be the rules. But if the rules are pushed a bit, homemade bombs in the road, suicide bombers, war carried out through public opinion and the media, hijacked planes flown into buildings, we quickly come to the limit of rules, replaced by the marketplace of ideas.
How much of the malfeasance of the last 8 years was abetted by people following the rules, while the other guys weren't? Take it back farther - the entire history of Whitewater, Florida 2000 and in California putting Schwarzenegger in office was formed around taking the rules and pushing them until they sagged. Obama got into office the first time by challenging the signatures of his 3 opponents - he ended up running unopposed. Just following the rules.
This is the way America works. Read "Blood Meridian" to get a more accurate feel of the Mexican Wars. Read a high school text to have it smoothed over for general consumption.
I saw an interesting analysis of America's passive-aggressive nature as viewed through Tom and Jerry - the image of being ultimately restrained until finally provoked into using overwhelming force. Only the framework draws the opponent in, is set up in advance to give us the moral excuse - "we were just defending ourselves". Nowhere is that self-serving dishonest narrative more obvious than in our history in Latin America. But I digress.
America breaks the world's rules. While the rest of the world seeks job security, we go for job churn. We're more successful so we take less vacation. Other countries try to grow jobs - we send them elsewhere and then make more. We take predictions of food shortages and shatter them (here's an article from 1914 shattering similar food myths to those we contend with today). We take management principles and turn them on their head. We have people's revolution enshrined as one of the founding principles of the country. And of course in terms of politics, rights, changes to the law, the to-and-fro between people power and corporations, much of it lies in changing and breaking the rules, not just blindly following them. If someone's going to represent America, he/she has to understand the many sides - the fairness, the pushiness, the self-excusing, the openness, the fighting, the clever, the entitled, the myth building.
Gandhi won by appealing to the Raj and the army in the field, but with the wives in their sewing circles back in London. He refused to fight while fighting. He broke all the rules.
Rosa Parks got on that bus knowing she would be arrested. She was chosen because she had a clean impeccable background - keep the message simple and uncluttered. She and the NAACP could have waited and fought to change the bus laws in the legislature instead. But sometimes justice delayed is justice denied. Sometimes following the rules is futile. They took the direct route. They followed what is right and let the rules catch up to them. That took cleverness and courage.





Comments (206)
Then why are so many of them in jail?
June 4, 2008 3:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa, dude - so many of *who*?
June 4, 2008 3:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your friend--not ours. You deal with him.
June 4, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Otto is just here to be a contrarian, as this post clearly shows.
But Desidero, I think that in no case of, shall I say, benign rule breaking, that you brought up, was there at first an agreement by the rule breaker to follow the rules. Hillary, like it or not, is breaking her own commitments. That is very different from the Rosa Parks and Gandhi imagery that you are invoking. Those people stood up for their commitments in the face of opposition, rather than change their commitments to create opposition.
June 4, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero doesn't seem to get the difference between breaking rules for a good cause and cheating for personal advantage.
June 4, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wasn't it Rosa Parks who said: The only thing I was tired of was giving in?
I interviewed Tom Clark for a series on school desegration and he revealed this about Brown v Board of Education. The Court was looking for a school desegregation case to strike down separate but equal, but they felt they couldn't move until they could deliver a unanimous decision. As soon as all of the justices were on board, they grabbed Brown from a lower court and delivered and overturned Plessy. How's that for an activist court?
June 4, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Obama could work that into a speech. Like, if that court had followed the rules in 1954, who knows where I would be today?
June 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think his speech writers know about it, let alone care about it.
June 4, 2008 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put this note up on another thread. McCain rules may not work out the way Obama expects.
You know, Des, I watched McCain and Obama last night. McCain looks so old. I remember when George HW Bush endorsed him, these two old men, tottering across the tarmac in Houston together.
I think the question is whether or not America will see McCain as a caretaker for one term who will get us out of Iraq successfully, continue to project US power in the ME, while keeping the US on the Reagan conservative course. The electorate may decide to give the old patriot his shot at running this country for four years. His VP choice will be critical.
June 4, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
whether or not America will see McCain as a caretaker for one term who will get us out of Iraq successfully,
America is going to see John "100 years would be fine with me" McCain as the one who will get us out of Iraq? McCain, who seems intent on starting a war with Iran ASAP, a war that would give him even more reasons to keep our forces in Iraq? You've got to be joking.
June 4, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't look now, tin man, but your candidate just flipped on Kyle-Lieberman big time in front of AIPAC. Now that he has the nomination, Obama can do the right thing. He's not going to be sucking up to the fruit cakes in the echo chamber in the general election.
June 4, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
To everyone's surprise, you didn't actually address the question of why you think America will embrace John "100 years, 1000 years, I don't really care" McCain as the one to get us out of Iraq.
June 4, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't say what I thought. I said what might happen. Are you unaware of the fact that national polls say people want out of Iraq and trust McCain more than Obama to handle the problem?
June 4, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
At what point did he agree with labeling the Iranian military unit a terrorist organization. Did he say that today. If not then are you unawre that preventing Iran from getting nuclear weapons has always beenpart of public spiel.
Obama has always been hawkish on Iran, but not in the conventional brain-dead neocon way that Lieberman/McCain describes it. Attacking Iraq was both a huge impetus to Iran to threaten to develop nukes and has made them a much bigger threat in the region.
June 4, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
At what point did he agree with labeling the Iranian military unit a terrorist organization. Did he say that today.
From text of Obama's speech to AIPAC, June 4:
Time's The Page:
The Campaign Spot, National Revue Online:
BARACK OBAMA, JOHN MCCAIN
RNC, Lieberman, Cantor React to Obama's Pledge on Iran
Expect the big story coming out of AIPAC to be Obama's declaration that he thinks the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps ought to be designated a a terrorist organization... and how this balances with his vote against that exact designation less than a year ago....
June 4, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Color me not surprised.
June 4, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. The tin man guy should have dressed as the scarecrow. He actually commented without reading what Obama said. So many people here do that now. It has become almost impossible to keep track of the instances of contradictions and sloppy thinking around here.
June 4, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heh. I did read it, not that reading it was necessary to see that you were attempting to change the subject.
You expressed concern (concerns, concerns, so many concerns) that Americans would perceive McCain as the candidate who would get us out of Iraq. McCain, the one who is just fine with us being there a hundred years or a thousand.
June 4, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
One more time, scarecrow disguised as a tin man. McCain has told America he will bring the troops home victorious by the end of his term. My thought is they might believe him. Polls show they trust him more on Iraq than they trust Obama. But maybe they don't know Obama yet. Once he spends that money on ads, maybe they'll change their minds. Why so threatened by a possibility?
June 4, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why so threatened by a possibility?
When you come up with a plausible "concern" (and you have so many "concerns" it's bound to happen eventually that you stumble onto a plausible one, so please do keep trying them out), then I'll consider the possibility of feeling threatened by a possibility.
June 4, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Want to show me the word or sentence that expresses "concern?" I'm not concerned about the outcome of the election. Are you?
June 4, 2008 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah dickweed, that's why I *asked* the question of whether he said that. I hadn't heard it before. I guess I assumed that was part of his objection, but having read his response it seems it was not.
Who cares. Like I said, I have always interpreted Obama as a hawk on Iran, and I could care less who is or isn't not labeled a terrorist (although some people on the left take that as a talisman of something evil). Our problem in dealing with Iran, as I understand it, and as I interpret Obama, is not that we have the wrong objective, but that we have been incredibly stupid and counterproductive getting there.
June 4, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
It has become almost impossible to keep track of the instances of contradictions and sloppy thinking around here.
Actually, this can be handled very simply with a minor technical trick. Simply use Ctrl-F (or it's Mac equivalent) and search for "Posted by Billy Glad."
June 4, 2008 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, I think you can just post the link next time.
June 4, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but it's much more humiliating to scroll down page after page. People do enjoy gloating, don't you think?
June 4, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Especially when you get to rub a lofty Greek nose in the doo doo. You ever notice the more shallow the ideas the more pretentious the nickname?
June 4, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but it's much more humiliating to scroll down page after page.
You have much too low a threshold of humiliation if just having to hit the space bar a few times could possibly ever under any circumstances imaginable make you feel humiliated.
June 4, 2008 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except that this fact check doesn't include the part of his speech today where Obama said he would do anything within his power to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.
I guess it's not a dumb war if Obama starts it.
June 4, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another high five.
June 4, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess it's not a dumb war if Obama starts it.
Consty, you disappoint me. He's not talking about starting a war. Keeping Iran from getting a nuclear weapon at this point can be accomplished by doing nothing. They don't have a credible program to build a nuke at the moment.
So I think the better snark would be to say that Obama is trying to appease the warmongers by taking advantage of the gullibility of those who like neo-connish hawkery. He has no intention of starting a war, but the neo-connish hawks think Iran is close to getting nukes (because Bush/Cheney/Condi/McCain/etc. all talk as if they are), so they assume he's saying that he is ready to start a war over it. And anyone who is actually paying attention understands that he's really saying just the opposite.
It's not a dumb war if you don't start it.
June 4, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting and thoughtful. So you don't feel "at war" with Iran? To follow that point a little. Were we "at war" with Russia when we were furnishing arms and training to the Afghan resistance so they could shoot down Russian helicopters? Was Israel "at war" with Iraq and Syria when Israel attacked those countries' nuclear facilities? Were we at war with Iraq when we bombed them to force the inspectors back in. With Somalia when we bombed them? Libya when we bombed them. Panama. Grenada.
June 4, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I think the better snark would be to say that Obama is trying to appease the warmongers by taking advantage of the gullibility of those who like neo-connish hawkery. He has no intention of starting a war, but the neo-connish hawks think Iran is close to getting nukes (because Bush/Cheney/Condi/McCain/etc. all talk as if they are), so they assume he's saying that he is ready to start a war over it. And anyone who is actually paying attention understands that he's really saying just the opposite.
This is what KILLS me about Obama supporters. You have NO IDEA what Obama thinks about Iran getting nuclear weapons or what his actions would be to prevent it. All we have to judge him on are his words, and he just said that he will do "everything in his power" to prevent it.
I really hope that Obama is everything that you guys think he is. I voted for Hillary but was never thrilled about her, but for various reasons thought she was better than Obama and Edwards.
But I do think it is funny how many Obama supporters (and I don't mean to include you, b/c I have no idea what you think or have said), do everything they can to contort every statement of Hillary's to show that she doesn't say what she means, but bend over backwards to tell me what Obama really doesn't really mean what he says.
June 5, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
My response on the other was that a VP who Republicans could live with could also give the Republicans the White House for 12 years - a more dangerous situation than people think.
June 4, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, Desidero. That's exactly why the Republicans put McCain forward as their candidate: He's old and feeble, he's likable enough, and most important, he's malleable.
Cheney set the precedent for ruling from the passenger seat. So the Republicans will pick a VP who will run the show for 12 years.
Now all they have to do is win. They're very good at that.
June 4, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm hoping for Condi Rice, just to make things really interesting.
June 4, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can agree with you on that one. By picking Condi, McCain establishes himself even more clearly as "Bush III" and at the same time manages to largely nullify any advantage from racist voters and at the same time divides his wingnut support along yet another axis. We can only hope he's that stupid.
June 4, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell me something, my friend. How does a woman get a super tanker named after her?
June 4, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell me something, my friend. How does a woman get a super tanker named after her?
Hmm, let's see. Wikipedia says that Chevron named the supertanker after her "in honor of her work" representing Chevron in Kazakhstan.
Like that has anything to do with how she'd do as McCain's running mate. She's got the oil executive demographic locked up solid!
June 4, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that how you get a super tanker named after you? You are so wet.
June 4, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's so cute when you make up shit and hope nobody calls you on it.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21192
Bumiller notes that in the spring of 2001 the company "quietly renamed the tanker" the Altair Voyager "in the face of criticism" of Bush family ties to the oil industry and charges against Chevron of human rights abuses in Nigeria. Rice resigned from the board six days before becoming national security adviser.
Heh. So she got a supertanker named after her because of her close ties to the president of Chevron and work she did for Chevron in Kazakhstan. And it was un-named later when it got to be just a bit too embarrassing a symbol of Bush's ties to the oil industry and associated human rights violations. And in Billy's world this is all somehow supposed to indicate how Rice wouldn't be a completely stupid choice of running mate for McCain.
Too funny.
June 5, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
You still miss the point, bucket head. Try it this way. How do you get on the board of an international corp like Chevron? (So they quietly renamed the super tanker to protect her reputation. How do you get the protection of Chevron?) Do you really know who this woman is? How did she get to be Provost at Stanford? How did she get on all those boards?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html
And that's just the public version.
My guess is you didn't notice her during the George H.W. Bush administration.
Let me explain something to you about those "racist" voters you think are rejecting Obama because he's a black man. It's not about skin, it's about culture. It's the Obama culture they're rejecting. They're not going to have a problem with someone like Rice, any more than they would have a problem with someone like Powell.
June 5, 2008 8:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think they're going to pick Condi. Yes, she's one of their only rock stars, but she's no Cheney.
June 4, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
The big problem is she's a lesbian. Actually, she has a ton of baggage. The big problem for Republicans is that Lindsay Graham is gay. Otherwise that ticket would kick our ass.
June 4, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you imagine the first black lesbian Republican Vice President? Hahaha! That just tickles my funny bone.
I tend to forget about how many closeted gay Republicans there are in high places. Mitch McConnell too.
June 4, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Otherness is such a pervasive concept in American culture.
June 5, 2008 8:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not a chance. McCain's big problem is with the conservative side of his party. There is no way he is going to pick a woman or a person of color. He'll pick an uptight white guy like Mitt Romney.
June 5, 2008 2:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent point.
June 5, 2008 2:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa, dude - so many of *who*?
Otto never replies as far as I can remember (perhaps he just does drive-by postings and never looks back to see the responses) but as bad as that sounded he might have only meant "why are so many [rule breakers] in jail". Giving him the benefit of the doubt here, he might just be saying that rule-breaking sometimes works, and sometimes backfires. Maybe.
Interesting post, Des.
June 4, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton apparently broke the rules with her non-concession speech. Her speech left the talking heads speechless for about 3 whole minutes. Of course they then spent the next 3 hours discussing it.
June 4, 2008 3:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
YES! readytoblowagasket, did someone make note of time discussing her instead of Obama on one of the most wonderful, exciting times in the history of this country, & indeed the world? An awful lot of people would like to know.
June 4, 2008 5:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I couldn't believe that the entire CNN staff of overpaid magpies chattered endlessly about Hillary, effectively burying Barack's victory in shit. For example, in a fit of deranged narcissism, Jeffrey Toobin called Hillary a "deranged narcissist." If you want to pay tribute to a momentous historic event in American politics, that's not the way to do it. I'd turned to CNN because the MSNBC boys were having orgasms over Brian Williams's monotonous description of the Gallatin Speedway! What the fuck is wrong with these people?
June 4, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
be thankful they were shredding Hillary or they would have been shredding Obama. They make their living by posing a those who define what is and is not cool. Coolness is acquired in direct measure to the level of contempt in which they hold people in public service because they believe in service and the obsequies regard they hold for those in public service to rob the cookie jar. In other words, the more sincere and devoted to service you are, the more they will flay you with contempt and derision.
So, if they don't talk about Obama, he is well-served. They have nothing worthwhile to say about anyone or anything.
June 4, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
As usual, I agree with your assessments, Oregon Activist. However, my additional point is that in shredding Hillary they managed to crap on Barack. They didn't just diminish his accomplishment, they negated and soiled it.
If they had directly shredded Barack instead, they might have inadvertently unified the party.
June 4, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Des,
Please forgive me for perhaps being a bit dense - I just need to clarify: Do you imply Senator Clinton should break the rules?
If so, I must strongly disagree with that viewpoint.
The examples you have provided (Ghandi, Parks, etc.) typically capture people or organizations breaking rules that were imposed upon them; conceptually quite different from those who have agreed to use or live by a given rule set.
Rule-breaking is, most definitely, a great American pastime, but quickly devolves into cheating when done after acceptance. It would jeopardize Senator Clinton's legacy to break the nomination's rules after having agreed to them at the outset.
June 4, 2008 5:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rosa Parks agreed to get to the back of the bus before she got on it. It wasn't just a good idea - it was the law.
June 4, 2008 6:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
With regard to the case of Parks, it was specifically the rule of the law that she did not agree to, but rather had imposed upon her. Obviously, she took umbrage to that rule and challenged it by refusing to obey.
The vastly more important issue to consider in the here-and-now is Senator Clinton - are you suggesting she should consider breaking the rules after having agreed to them?
Once again, I personally think doing so could be a grave mistake on her part, and I would strongly advise her against it. Do you disagree, or do I simply misunderstand the implication of your blog?
Thanks for your insights!
June 4, 2008 6:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nope, by getting on that bus she agreed to the rules of the public transportation system, whether a copy was available on the bus or through the local office of the county transportation system (please provide stamped self-addressed envelope). Don't try to change the rules in mid-commute.
June 4, 2008 6:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I must beg to differ with your stance on Parks' protest. Perhaps I'm missing something here?
It seems to me that Parks specifically did not agree with the rules at all. As you indicated, surely she MUST have known the rules ahead of time. But knowing and agreeing are conceptually quite different. She disagreed with the rules, and consciously challenged the law (to which she had never agreed) by sitting in the front. In what way could she have more provocatively done so without actually boarding the bus?
Again, though, please do clarify because I am afraid I may be misunderstanding what you wrote: Do you believe Senator Clinton should, at this point in the nomination, renege on the rules?
June 4, 2008 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
So if the bus company made her sign a form agreeing before she got on the bus, that would change everything?
June 4, 2008 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
... and she then proceeded to break the rules? Then, yes, that would change everything. She should never have signed the form. Does such a form with "Rosa Parks" affixed exist?
June 4, 2008 8:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only my hypothetical and your supposition exist. Hardly firm ground to build an edifice on, much less a moat.
June 4, 2008 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're an idiot, and this post and this discussion is a complete waste of time.
Comparing Hillary Clinton to Rosa Parks displays a complete ignorance of history, and is insulting to the civil rights ovement, and to opporessed people everywhere.
This is Hillary's entire argument:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvYICKJ3TI
June 4, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you are confusing "obeyed the rules" and "agreed to" the rules.
Lacking a moral framework makes this discussion rather difficult. Ghandi/King/Parks were operating from a morality that unjust rules need not be obeyed, in fact must be resisted. She obeyed the rules until she resisted them.
You are also confusing in your initial post rules and norms. Americans break the law the make, they change the underpinnings of laws over time, they often operate successful in situation where there really are no laws, and we are a nation that at times reveres law and lets principle dominate practicality.
But then were are also great innovators, which is a way of breaking norms, and convention, but hardly amounts to cheating, or breaking the rules. Innovaztion, imagination, shifting the paradigm, whatever.
I have no idea what you are trying to say in your post. The question was asked repeatedly if you are suggesting Clinton break some rules that either she agreed to or that is just something that is expected of her.
It is interesting that your discussion of innovation as being a great part of our nation's character is an apt description of what helped Obama succeed. He ran an innovative campaign. One could say he had both a much better understanding of the rules and how to use them to his advantage and a much less limited view of what the normal way of doing things is.
June 4, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understand you're trying to make a point about the nature of rules and subjective morality and authority. Fine. But going from WWI to terrorism to Rosa Parks to Gandhi? A bit sophomoric, no?
June 4, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did I leave something out?
June 4, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Evolutionary psychology and beer nuts perhaps.
June 4, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Damn! I'll be more careful next time.
June 4, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Condescending blue-collar beer nuts, actually.
June 4, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do not put blue and nuts in the same phrase, please!
June 4, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are times to break the rules and times to follow the rules.
Rose Parks lived under Jim Crow. She did not make the rules. She was systematically denied a voice in making the rules through voter suppression and intimidation. Segregation was a rule imposed by the state, a state which had the power to deny its citizens life and liberty. Given the realities of Jim Crow, there was no legislative path to changing these rules. In those circumstances, civil disobedience is not only a good idea, it's almost a moral imperative.
There are other rules we follow that come from our voluntary associations, like say, just hypothetically, a political party. Within all these organizations, there are some people more powerful than others, but everybody is there by choice. The most powerful people in these organization make the rules.
When these powerful people cough*HaroldIckes*cough make the rules and then argue to change them when they become personally inconvenient, well, that's just not in the same class as civil disobedience. That's in the class of self-serving manipulation.
Of course, no one would respect such a hypothetical organization if they allowed that to happen, so thank heavens we don't have that situation.
And of course, no one would respect any kind of equivalency between a crusader for civil rights and a self-serving politician, so thank heavens no one is trying to argue that.
June 4, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Was Rosa Parks permitted to vote for candidates for State Representative, State Senator or Governor, the people who wrote, or could have repealed, that law?
June 4, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and rule-breaking was a great idea when the U.S. decided to break the rules and attack Iraq.
June 4, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think I've just seen the first example of self-obfuscation. You would benefit from proofreading, then making sure that each item in your rather voluminous posts actually supports your position, whatever that is.
June 4, 2008 6:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you don't know what it is, how can you say the items don't support it?
June 4, 2008 6:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
MassDem,
I typically find Desidero's writing to be quite compelling and good. Which is why I too am not sure I fully understand his/her blog in this case. Hopefully Des will explain?
Thanks!
June 4, 2008 6:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Today I am a Zen Koan, a Rorschach Test, an exercise in self-study, a Moebius strip. Or else I forgot to include the conclusion paragraph. Never mind. I am invincible. Recommend and move on. I have spoken. Now where are my smokes?
June 4, 2008 6:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I did choose to recommend, because I thought the post was interesting.
I suppose it is seeming like you want to deftly avoid answering my questions for some reason, so I will have to acquiesce, and take solace from knowing that somethings shall remain forever unknowable!
Thanks anyway, Des.
And yet again, for the record - I am thinking it might be politically dangerous and possibly a huge mistake for Senator Clinton to attempt to break the rules after having agreed to them. Over and out.
June 4, 2008 7:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
As Dylan said, "To live outside the law you must be honest".
June 4, 2008 7:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, thanks.
I take this to mean that you do recommend Senator Clinton should also break rules to which she had previously agreed.
I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Were she to do so now, she would be tantamount to nothing other than a cheater.
June 4, 2008 8:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. As is a consistent foolishness. Let us be magnanimous and look at this closer under a magnifying glass. And there the nit we pick becomes a mole. A few more degrees of freedom and we'll have a mountain yet. Whether it's rock hard or rock candy bears examining. How shall we test? I know, we'll shave a bit for later and hew the rest in two. That way our task lays bare in front of us with little left to do. And then when it is broke apart, I firmly make a pledge - that never will I leave as solved the bet I meant to hedge.
June 4, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
You must be maddening in person - you are like the shuffled pages of Bartlett's Quotations.
June 4, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not that bad, 26-card pickup, working with half a deck.
June 4, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Desi is the TPM Sphinx. Of course you find that maddening since you can't answer the riddle.
June 4, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Think of him as a fortune cookie. I got a fortune once that said you're surrounded by enemies, but I sent it back and asked for another cookie. Cynical fortune cookies are too far over the top, even for me.
June 4, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I got a fortune cookie once that said "You like Chinese food."
June 4, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
That may be the funniest thing I've heard all day - I'm totally going to repeat that.
June 4, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thankfully Dylan expresses more insight in a single sentence than all of your self-indulgent bs does in a week.
June 4, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's something happening here, but you don't know what it is. Do you, Mr. Jones. If you had a less pretentious avatar and nickname, you could get by. Did you find the place where your candidate flipped yet?
June 4, 2008 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
You angel you, I've got you under my skin...
So I post using my real name. How about you big boy? If you have a problem with that I'll meet you and your Danny DeVito looking mug at recess behind the monkey bars and we can settle it like 4th graders. That or I'll tell my mommy.
June 4, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Des, you get a recommend from me more often than you might think.
June 4, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I figured that's where the soggy ones come from - pretty tactile for a little tyke.
June 4, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Des and George W. Bush would get along quite well. He's another powerful person who has at least as much opportunity to influence the law as anyone else in the country, but doesn't think the law should apply to him. George W. Bush, the new Rosa Parks! (Some of us see a difference between the position of a dictator, who rejects the idea of the rule of law and a constitutional process, and the position of a powerless citizen who is the target of unconstitutional, discriminatory laws which she had no opportunity to participate in fashioning - even by voting. I find it rather offensive to equate the civil disobedience of the heroic Rosa Parks with a the behavior of powerful public figure who helped make rules that s/he then doesn't think should apply to her/him, but then I remember that this post is Desidero's, who believes that African-Americans should basically "get over it" since other peoples (usually he cites Ukrainians) have also had struggles.
June 4, 2008 7:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Normally drawing absurd conclusions on the wall just gets you spanked, but for your analogy extended in absurdum will get you sent to your room.
June 4, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Or 15 minutes outside the echo chamber.
June 4, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rosa Parks? You're in all seriousness comparing Hillary Clinton to Rosa Parks?
I would have chosen a different anology.
Like when my 5 year old niece throws a tantrum when she's almost reached the end of Chutes and Ladders but draws a card and has to slide down a ladder, thereby losing the game.
June 4, 2008 7:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who suggested I was all seriousness?
Rosa Parks was certainly black and Hillary is not.
Amongst other dissimilarities, time, location, mood, tense, hat size.
I suppose if you would end the game before the ladder, your niece would be spared some discomfort if you ended the game before she reaches the ladder.
June 4, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
(I) Hillary Clinton, your future president, may not myself be black, but I also may, but I have definitely been fucked by a black man - in fact, the first black president of the United States.
Leading the racist vote!
Leading the fucked vote!
Leading you all!
Much Love,
Hillary - The only President to be fucked by another President.
June 4, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, with all that mano-a-mano shit, we simply don't know. We simply don't know.
June 4, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
(I) Hillary Clinton, your future president, simply don't know. Quite and thoroughly simply, do not know what hand-to-hand has to do with getting fucked by a black man.
Much Love,
Hillary - the Black Candidate 08!
P.S. Congress is being run like a plantation, and you know what I'm talking about.
June 4, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you went to Australia you'd understand what happens when you get a man and a dingo together. Then again, it's better that you don't. Some problems we keep to ourselves.
June 4, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, yes. But we finish the game so she can learn an important lesson about how to be a good loser.
What lessons did Hillary Clinton learn by getting to finish the game?
June 4, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's lucky to have an aunt like you. Some aunts would be talking about how they teach their nieces to be good winners. Maybe it's the way you jump up and down and celebrate and ridicule her when you win that sets off the tantrum?
June 4, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes with kids I find that when they act up that they didn't agree with the rules they're breaking to begin with. They have different expectations than the adults around them, and the adults just assume the unstated rules.
June 5, 2008 1:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Take that up with Phoebe.
June 4, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Des, don't hold your breath waiting to win the Nobel Prize for Logic.
June 4, 2008 8:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I'm holding it for the Nobel Prize in Perserverance, a horse of a different color.
For the one in Logic I'll simply lodge a complaint and see what comes up.
June 4, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you're saying that breaking the rules is sometimes cool, and that's totally cool with you? Revelatory. Carry on...
June 4, 2008 8:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, I said breaking the rules is totally cool and that's sometimes cool with me.
Back in your hat.
June 4, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think I'd call it a koan, but a Rorschach test isn't inaccurate.
I think Des is just exploring what it means to break the rules. That he started with Rosa Parks made many assume that Des is advocating for breaking the rules. However, that Des also includes BushCo clearly suggests that he recognizes that not all good things come from breaking the rules, or more specifically, from a lopsided willingness to break the rules. Perhaps one might think here Des is suggesting that Obama might need to break a few rules, but I don't know that Des has any simple motive at all here other than to explore variations on a theme: breaking the rules.
June 4, 2008 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good insights, thanks Ben.
I have decided to give up, though.
Asked virtually the same question several times, but to no avail. :( Definitely good to think about things, but not so much about this one thing: namely, trying to divine purpose from a political blog. I can read poetry for that.
June 4, 2008 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Even poetry doesn't have to deal with the divine.
I see a line
You see a curve
I'm right behind
Before you swerve
I see a cliff
You see a fall
I try to stop
You try to call
June 4, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gödel, Escher, Bach?
Eternal Golden Braid?
B.E.G. for your supper.
June 4, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I never really got Escher -it's the same over and over, finally I said, "why don't you try a little colour once in awhile, break up the monotony"...
June 4, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
My guess is the color gives spatial information, destroying the optics. Either that or he was color blind.
June 4, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was a knucklehead like Scheile, you couldn't tell him a goddamned thing either. I don't know how many times I'd say,"lighten up, people want to look at happy shit, Egon, breasts and shit like that." I'd say look at Pablo, "a breast in this corner, one in the middle, maybe one on the side and his shit is flying off the walls, forget all the drawing and crap, people like colourful tits." He wouldn't listen though...
June 4, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Them artists think they know everything.
June 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can't tell'em shit.
June 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Des, have you ever lived in another contry? Do not fool yourself - America is the most lowfull and loworiented country I know, and that is why democracy is possible here, and not in afganistan or russia, with their crime and corruption.
June 4, 2008 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
We're pretty creative with crime and corruption too - don't sell us short. Or else.
June 4, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's explore why Des has so much time on his/her hands that readers are subjected, on a regular basis, to these rambling rants. Another composition that substitutes long, convoluted free-association for analytical analysis, critical thinking, and epiphany moments. Not everyone's free-association is worth considering--you're not Van Morrison. Buy a journal, for God's sake!
June 4, 2008 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
You pays your nickels, you takes your chances.
What brings you here?
June 4, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Haven't you figured out this is her performance art.
She and Billy are artists, you see.
Artists.
June 4, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another one that mistakes Des for a woman. And what a bitter comment. You never fail me, pretentious greek thingie.
June 4, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
So now you are following me around.
I don't know if Des is a he or she or it, it's just easier to jack off to the posts if I assume she a woman.
Not as good as screwing the madonna, though. that was hot.
June 4, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It will get better, too. The Sixties were like that.
June 5, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought it was the chimp that got you hot, but now it's female chimp or nothing. What's that dripping on my avatar? Hey buddy, this is a family blog...
June 5, 2008 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Des,
Hillary not clever enough. Too inflexible. Too dishonest. Meets too few of your criteria. From Goldwater through Alinsky to Billcie, not enough principles to make apt comparison to your ideal rule-breaker. Rosa was a dream. Hillary Shillary Bill is a nightmare.
Now, about this reconciliation season. Obama just has to contest the false pictures of him. He must call together a group of fair witnesses and let them grill him to the nth degree.
June 4, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
He already has a law degree, so n-2 to go? I'd say grilling in front of an unfair panel would make him cook faster, but you have to turn him quicker as well. But what kind of seasoning were you suggesting? A special sauce?
June 4, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Because living under Jim Crow as a black person and getting on a bus to go to work to clean someone's house was 'subscribing' to rules. Rules that Rosa actually had a 'choice' in obeying if she wanted to survive. Further diminishing the day she decided not to get up.
Jeez - I better get my grandmother out of her grave and tell her she had the same 'choices' as Hillary.
Desi - really?
June 4, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's a fine line between your wish
And my command.
The freedom to agree comes much easier
Than the freedom to refuse.
June 4, 2008 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
First Mr. Sartre, you'd have to share whatever drugs you're off - on.
June 5, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
She who married the bus driver, and has been given a free ride in the front seat, should lead an uprising against such an affront.
Who will lead such a rebellion; will it be Hillary Clinton or Paris Hilton?
June 4, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clifton Parisian. Yves St. Laurent is dead. Don't disturb me now, I'm in mourning.
June 4, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Des, are you conducting a psych experiment or something? This is your second post in as many days that explicitly doesn't mention anything about the election but could be easily interpreted as election-related.
June 4, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, it revolves around the old quandary of leading a horticulture.
June 4, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Ms. Parker.
June 4, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wit without wisdom is Desi. Knowledge without judgment won't enable this hor to think along your lines. Parker had the same problem but with much less arrogance. She had too many steros stolen from her to believe that she was wise. She was soulful, however, and that redeemed her beyond all expectation of sageless wit.
June 4, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Your wits and my tits, we could go places"?
June 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
If she only knew it was Benchley stealing her car stereos...maybe things would have turned out differently, maybe we wouldn't have gone to war, who knows?
June 4, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cider House Rules - the rules that are published and the rules that the guy with the knife says the rules are.
June 4, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cutting insight. Who are you, oh masked one?
June 4, 2008 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm an American, I have no land, no home, but where I lay my head at night and say this is mine for now."
June 4, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
"In this world but not of it". I try, but God knows I'm weak.
June 4, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
"America breaks the world's rules. While the rest of the world seeks job security, we go for job churn. We're more successful so we take less vacation. Other countries try to grow jobs - we send them elsewhere and then make more."
Who is this we you refer to?
I'm as much a fan of the koan as anyone, but many koans can be refuted/rationalized by recognizing that the subject changes in mid-stream.
June 4, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
We is America.
June 4, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't change subjects or horses in mid-stream. We like consistency with our coffee, and it is a time of war and all.
June 4, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Many of us see this differently.
Many of us think it's Obama who ultimately "breaks the mold," not because he is bi-racial, but because he wants to put the status quo rules of politics behind us.
June 4, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is "breaking the mold" the same as "breaking the rules", and how does that fit in with the Pottery Barn rule? Is "putting rules behind" different than breaking them? Can we change the status quo into a moving one so we don't have to keep fixing it?
June 4, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone know how to get back on the highway? The roadisgns are all messed up around here.
June 4, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure, but don't leave your stereo in your car - there've been a lot of break-ins.
June 4, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who can claim that this isn't a bit of fun?
Here they are! The duo of the wicked wit. Trading barbs with the masses. Playing hide and seek. Seeing how many chumps fall for the chimp's pretending.
And Billy, refreshed and returned from the agony of defeat!
Bouncing beams at echo chamber walls. Listening for the familiar plink. Could the walls be now deeper? Has the cave opened to yet another chamber- the final crypt for the pure of heart?
Plink, plink, the radar signal returns. Having measured the vastness of the space, its echo now a wondrous symphony of a single note, Billy turns the radar to find the leaky boat.
Sad fate, the boat has somehow beached. Arrived on the soft and sandy shore. What now Billy? What now Desidero? Nothing left to fight for boychiks.
It's all style and fun now. Waiting for the 'nauts to push that leaky boat back into the sea.
June 4, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's all good fun till someone puts an eye out. For now we're eyeless in Gaza, but we'll see if the glazzies were really necessary after all.
June 5, 2008 1:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
The author of this post knows better, but, for the purposes of entertainment, indulges in blatant misuse of historical analogy.
As Ron Paul might say, "make fun, buddy" ...
By which I mean to suggest, I hold this post in about as much esteem as RP and the rest of us once held the Romney candidacy ...
Kudos.
Rosa Parks never wrote no rules. Get over yourself.
June 4, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
As for the American "superiority" you seem to grasp at here let me remind you the British tried to give Americans the benefit of the hard won bitter experience they'd learned in 3 years before we got to France in 1917. Don't churn up No Man's land and the front line of German trenches with too much artillery before an attack. The Germans just hide in their bunkers until your shelling lifts and then slaughter your soldiers as they try and slog through the muck you've just created. We took ghastly casualties just like everybody else did earlier in the war before we started listening.
Any super delegate that declares for Clinton from this day forward in not only a fool but doing the Republican party's work for them. We have a nominee. Either support him or leave the party.
June 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You are truly, truly deranged. Hillary is Rosa Parks! Hillary is Ghandi! And Obama supporters are accused of being in a cult?
Rules? Clinton wants to disenfranchise all caucus voters by using the so-called "popular vote" as a metric. Hillary wants every vote to be counted before the superdelegates overturn the decision of the voters. Hillary thinks that the results of an election she had agreed wouldn't count should count. And Hillary thinks that an election in which her opponent was not on the ballot is a fair representation of voter preferences.
Lunatics and racists: Hillary's base.
June 4, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desi, even when I vehemently disagree with Hillary Clinton's strategies, you always show me the other perspective. I see the divide between my heart and my head.
Perhaps you should have called it "The Riddle of Hillary Clinton."
As for Gandhi - had to study him closely once. He was no fighter. He was a warrior. Two years after my bout with Gandhi, I read a few things about King. Really surprised me how well he was able to appropriate, assimilate and expand Gandhi despite the huge cultural differences.
Clicked often. ;)
Back to work now.
June 4, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amazing. It's rare I come across anyone who understands the difference. Hillary's a fighter.
June 4, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
a VP who Republicans could live with could also give the Republicans the White House for 12 years
Just as true if Hillary had won the nomination. Perhaps even more true, because McCain would have less worry about shoring up the wingnut vote, and could pick Veep who would help with him with weaknesses in other areas.
But look at the names that have been floated. Is your concern purely theoretical, or are there names being floated that make the concern more tangible?
Romney? Not a bad choice in some ways, but he's such an obvious phony that it doesn't strike me as a very strong ticket. Huckabee? Maybe if he needs to shore up the wingnut vote, but again, not a terribly frightening ticket. Billy likes Condi for McCain's veep (if he's serious about that), but the last thing he needs is someone who ties him even more closely to Bush and at the same time alienates the racist/sexist demographic within the GOP.
June 4, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Republicans will choose someone who flies under the radar, not a rock star. Someone you haven't even thought of yet.
Then all they have to do is win the election. They already know how to do that.
June 4, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nuanced, thoughtful points, Desi. Thanks.
(I haven't had time to read all of the comments, so I hope I'm not repeating something that's already been said. If so, I apologize.)
Rules--as a function of structure--can provide order, or oppression. Fortunately, when the rules are unjust, we have people who are willing to challenge them, calling attention to the errors of thought or morality that underlie those rules. Then again, as you point out with some of your examples, distorted application or interpretation of rules can produce unjust results.
So the value of rules can't be evaluated without keeping in mind (and reminding ourselves constantly) the intended purpose (and whether it's just) and the effectiveness of the results (how well the rules serve the intended purpose).
June 4, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero, a good tangent on the issue. It suffers from a fatal flaw, however: Parks fought against rules that had been dictated to her, imposed upon her without representation.
My philosophy is, broadly, that any just or unjust rule may be broken if one was not allowed to participate in crafting the rule. Strife against tyranny is justifiable. Conversely, any rule that one wittingly agreed to without coercion may only be contested by "peaceful" means.
Social theory and morality in societies are very interesting topics, though.
June 4, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suggest everyone note this paragraph and see how clever it looks in 5 years. America is at the end of coasting on it's post WWII prosperity coupled with being the world-dominant player of cheap energy. Some of these 'breaking the rules' will come back to bite us.
The manufacturing jobs we have shipped overseas will prevent the nation from rising again... just for starters. Most countries don't copy our management style -- for a reason. We are already seeing food shortages in rice and cooking oil.
The jingoistic nation of this paragraph is surprising on TPM -- and even more surprising is the fact that people didn't see it for what it is.
June 4, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, but I've heard this line of argument for just about my entire life, about the U.S. being in decline, and it has not come to pass. Everybody has been benefiting from cheap energy, and non-cheap energy will hurt everyone. The shortages you mention are hardly confined to the U.S.
And by the way, most companies overseas do copy the U.S. management style. MBA schools are full of foreign students, with the trip and tuition paid for by their overseas employers.
There's nothing wrong with a little jingoism--as long as it's responsible jingoism (as opposed to that of the last several years).
June 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never said the US was in decline -- I said we were about to hit the wall from many of our foolish policies. There is a difference.
While everyone will be hurt by expensive energy, the US is more dependent on the cheap energy than nearly any other country in the world. This is primarily a result of all our infrastructure being developed in a time of cheap energy.
As a very simple example, you may want to compare how you will get distances of, say, 200 miles in the future without airlines. The US has no rail system compared to nearly every other modern society. Gas for cars and oil for asphalt will be quite expensive.
Studying them is not the same as employing them. The Japanese, for example, send students to the US for years -- and have their own culture and management structure intact.
June 4, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but all countries depend implicitly on how the U.S. moves. If it costs more to drive around, that means fewer dolls made in China for little Debby. It means a shrinking market for everything else across the globe.
Sure, there is an adjustment for style Other than quality control, which many companies in Japan have a special knack for, U.S. management techniques are exported across the world. The only other difference is that India, China, etc. have a multitude of cheap labor, which gives a huge competitive advantage, but not in terms of being a management style. Any other difference in management in China, for example, is exemplified by a more rigid, hierarchical structure, which has in fact helped stem the tide of our jobs going overseas.June 4, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, my reply to you is below:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/following-the-rules.php#comment-2880865
June 4, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jingoistic Nation. Sounds like a band or a blog.
Anyway. I think you missed Desidero's intention, clearthinker.
June 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero, I agree with almost everything you have said here. It's interesting that I see the post as an argument for Obama.
Obama may not have broken the written rules, but he broke every unwritten rule in the book. (can an unwritten rule be "in the book?" Where can I get a copy of this book?) He leapt to the front of the line, not waiting his turn, despite the fact that he is a freshman senator. He took the standard rules of a political campaign and turned them on their head. He competed in places that Democrats had not previously. He eschewed the Rovian rhetoric of division which had defined politics for the last decade.
And Clinton? She played by the rules. She waited her turn. She played politics according to the standard rules. It was only at the end, when it was apparent that by living by the rules she would die by the rules, that she was interesting in breaking the rules.
June 4, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary was reviled for presuming to run for president out of turn. She was reviled for not stepping aside when she lost the lead. She was reviled for competing like a man would: basically, for "fighting" and for speaking her mind. She was reviled when she beat Barack in debates. She was thoroughly reviled for challenging the DNC rules. She was repeatedly accused of "moving the goal posts." She has been compared to other women and found lacking. Every aspect of her behavior has been criticized in the public square, so I think that means she didn't play by "the" rules.
Barack played by Chicago politics rules. There are plenty of articles about those rules if you do a little research.
I don't know what planet you've been living on.
June 4, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Playing by Chicago rules" is a nice slogan which substitutes for real analysis. What exactly does this even mean, and how does it apply to Obama?
If Clinton "pushed her way to the front" what do you think Obama did? Obama was behind Clinton in line.
Fortunately, the presidency does not have a seniority requirement.
June 4, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't intend it to be a slogan. It applies to Obama through his campaign strategist, David Axelrod. His Karl Rove. To understand the campaign, you need to understand the players.
I don't see where you provided any "analysis" yourself beyond making statements derived from Obama's campaign rhetoric, Frog Leg. In particular:
I'm sorry to have to say this, but that's Kool-Aid talking. I can't provide analysis to Kool-Aid drinkers. I've tried. It doesn't work. If you're willing to be open-minded, I can make accommodations. Otherwise, forget it.
June 4, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't think of a more divisive campaign than the one Axelrod just ran. And this one was just for openers. Wait until the general if you want to see a country divided.
June 4, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Penn is a saint now?
June 4, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
An idiot.
June 4, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
A beached whale.
June 4, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still waiting for a better prognosis on what happened. While I'm sure there's enough blame to go around, my feeling is whoever was supposed to organize the ground game (Solis-Doyle?) was the most damaging gap in her campaign. But then they held their own in California and Massachusetts.
June 5, 2008 2:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think there's more to the story too, particularly Solis Doyle.
In general, I find it interesting the genie never quite escaped from the bottle. Just lots of conclusions drawn on very little data.
June 5, 2008 2:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the second link, the NYT Magazine piece, as I missed it when it first came out. That story at the end, p. 4-5, about how Hillary helped Susan Axelrod's Epilepsy Foundation at the height of the impeachment stress, seems to have even more cruel irony now. Sigh, it's all such a silly game, and to see so many in the blogosphere falling for manipulated emotions over much-ado-about-nothing has been a real bummer. The principle characters will all remain friends or friendly acquaintances, it really is Juvenal's "bread and circuses" writ large.
June 4, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with everything you say, artappraiser. And I just want to mention that your consistently thoughtful comments have made this hullabaloo a little less of a bummer. :-)
Also, I never got a chance to thank you for posting this article. So thanks!
June 5, 2008 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy, that's a way nicer way to remember Brown v Board than what really happened. It took time even with the case on the SCOTUS docket to get that majority. Reread your history books.
June 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry. Are you saying Brown wasn't unanimous? If that's the case, I apologize and stand corrected.
June 4, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fact that it took a Supreme Court decision, and not a Revolution, begin to address segregation to me is a pretty goods sign that Rosa Parks and other Civil Rights advocates were recognizing a higher (i.e. constitutional) rule, and they realized that their best recourse was to point out the conflict in those rules. She didn't win desegregation is bus transport by simply repeatedly sitting in the front of the bus until the bus company gave up; she sat in front of the bus so she could get arrested, then argue her position in court.
Parks, Ghandi and others broke rules strategically not for their own selfish gain but to change the system and make it more equitable for everyone. Just how does Hillary Clinton holding on to a failed candidacy compare to that? Just what is that Grand Principle that she's fighting for?
June 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting, Desidero. This should indeed be called "Riddle of Hillary Clinton." It's a nice book end to Billy Glad's "Myth of Barack Obama."
June 4, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rosa Parks did not make the bus seating rules.
I'll just remind the poster that Clinton's allies, i.e. Harold Ickes et al, voted to disenfranchise the offending states. She was trying to change her own rules.
June 4, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aum
June 4, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aum
June 4, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/brown-v-board/
Would seem to indicate that there is truth to Clark's version of the events. If your point is that unanimity was achieved after the desegregation cases were before the Court and not before the Court heard Brown, I don't think that changes Clark's point that the Court decided they needed a unanimous opinion. If your point is that the Court didn't go after Brown in order to overturn Plessy, I think I'm going to stick with Clark on that, since he was closer to those events than you or I.
June 4, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy,
Brown was on the SCOTUS docket twice. It was before the Court first when Vinson was Chief Justice. After Vinson died and Warren was made Chief Justice, a decision was deferred so that a full Supreme Court could reconsider it. It is well known from the historical record that Vinson almost certainly would have dissented, and Jackson likely would have as well. It took all of Warren's political skills to get Jackson on board once the case came up again.
June 4, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. I think that's what my original comment said. I also think it may be true that the Court reached down and took Brown away from a lesser court, but I may be remembering that wrong. I don't have access to the original video anymore.
The point to the whole comment is that the Court doesn't always follow the rules and has been "activist" for a long time. I would guess that if McCain gets elected, it won't take the new Court that follows long to find the right case to overturn Roe.
June 4, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
ARGH!
WENCH HILLARY IS NO FOOL!
SHE DOESN'T NEED NO RULES!
CAMPAIGNS REAL HARD
LIKE JEAN LUC PICARD
SHE KNOWS HOW TO WORK HER TOOLS!
SHE KNOWS CORPORATE RAIDING!
AND CLEVER DELEGATE TRADING!
SHE DOES HER THRUST
IN HER ME TRUST!
SHE'S NOT DONE WITH THIS CAMPAIGNING!
ACQUIRE! MERGE! MARAUD! DILUTE! DILUTE!
ARGH!
June 4, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I spent a few years on my local city council. That's an elected position, so I suppose it made me a politician. But I learned something useful from the city manager, who had been there for something like 30 years. He and I were politically quite different from each other, but we got along great. And he told me, "Your job is to uphold the laws and ordinances of the city, state and federal governments. If you don't like the law, you are free to change it. In fact, I encourage you to do everything you can to change those laws you find unjust or inappropriate." Breaking the rules would have gotten me impeached. Working to change them got me a lot of fans and hopefully did some good for my city.
There are times to break the rules. There are times to protest injustice. At no point does this blog make a direct reference to Hillary Clinton, but if that is the inference we're meant to accept, then I would reject it out of hand. However, playing devil's advocate, suppose that Clinton truly believes that she, like Rosa Parks and Gandhi, represents opposition to something bigger than her own personal ambitions. Being generous, she might think that her obtaining the nomination is the best thing for the party. Having said that, I also think she is being myopic if that is her true belief, because breaking the rules to garner the nomination will be so alienating to African Americans and a lot of other people invested in Obama's candidacy, not to mention the world that is watching us and is currently amazed and delighted that we have raised an African American who resembles so many of the world's people of color for the first time in our history.
So, no. Clinton is not Gandhi. She's not Rosa Parks. She's Hillary Clinton.
June 4, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Got a phone call while writing the above and didn't finish the last sentence of the second-to-last paragraph. But hopefully you get the point.
June 4, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice comment! You can tell you have actually been involved in politics. And I mean that in a good way.
June 4, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, hitting a wall is different than a decline. Expect to see the beginnings of a radical change in lifestyles in the US in the next 6-12 months as gas goes to $5 gal or more.
That would imply a change in a mere 12-18 months of cheap energy, compared to a slow decade-long scale.
You are pretty dismissive of all of this -- and the evidence today (end of manufacturing of SUVs, airlines going out of business, jumps in the price of wheat, etc.) is huge. Ignore the warning signs at your own risk.
Very jingoistic. Here's a bigger picture: China doesn't need our markets as soon as they elevate their general lifestyle to absorb themselves the products they make. The Chinese has been buying up the US debt -- yet hoarding their own currency. They are getting closer and closer to holding our economy hostage, while at the same time increasing the value of their own.
The US has provided a nice market place for the Chinese to use to build up their manufacturing capacity... but they are about to be a bigger consumer nation than ourselves. Not on a per capita basis (which itself can grow) but in sheer raw numbers.
Hubris will kill the US.
I suggest you look at BAD MONEY by Kevin Phillips.
June 4, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
When that happens, there is no more surplus of cheap labor. The price of Chinese products goes up, and the competitive advantage is then gone.
June 4, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Competitive advantage?
Are you aware that the financial sector is now the largest in the US Economy? It overtook manufacturing in the 1990s.
The Pentagon is already concerned about our ability to manufacture elements of war domestically -- including electronic chips.
The world will not be flat in a few years with the end of cheap energy. At that point, you will be paying for transportation.
Competitive advantage? You think we can make cars that can compete with the mpg of the Chinese?
The Chinese are developing a self-sufficient society. It may not have as great a lifestyle as the present US because of the lack of cheap energy, but it will go on.
In the US, we have a "service economy", an incredible load of debt, a dollar that is close to not being pegged to oil, an infrastructure based on $3/gal gas and most of our products are imported.
We can't compete...and we are running out of time to reinvent ourselves (which, itself, takes energy).
June 4, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is no such thing anymore as a self-sufficient society. Every country has to concentrate on their strengths. For China, that means exploiting cheap labor. But that well is drying fast.
June 4, 2008 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Frog leg China has 1.3 billion people. About 300 million of them now have cars, tvs, pcs etc. i.e. a first world lifestyle. They are trying to lift another third to that level and once they do they'll
be able to disregard our market. They'll still have over 300 million more poor laborers. That well isn't drying fast.
June 4, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, my friends Des and gasket, looks like Saturday is the day. Have to get back to the future if I can. Hate to get stuck here like a man who fell to earth. Maybe I can find a chrono-synclastic infundibulum. Drop in periodically when the planets are aligned. See you then.
June 5, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I need a walkabout myself. I once met a whacked out guy in a fast food place drinking coffee. He had the wildest book I've ever seen, runes, equations, all kinds of scribbling he'd done, must have been 500 pages. He explained a bit of it to me, rather sensibly, but there wasn't much time. I asked him where he was going. He said he was walking to Mars, that he'd left his rock there. Said the trip would take him a thousand years. I'd go too, but first I have to write my book. Space travel without the equations is dangerous.
June 5, 2008 2:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy, you and Des have been a godsend. You have no idea how much you have made me laugh. Of course I'll be dropping in.
Maybe you should start your own political blog, completely separate from a creative-diaristic one. I know blogs can be a lot of work, but you have so much more knowledge, writing talent, and ability to synthesize than so many other bloggers out there. I meant it when I said once that you are the Socrates of TPM, but the audience here is wrong for you.
In the meantime, maybe the three of us can get together for bagels on Saturday. ;-)
June 5, 2008 2:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, maybe on Saturday. As Billy keeps noting, I'm screwing my employer, and as soon as I get up the gumption I'm going to fire myself for doing a shitty job. Plus I'm not sure I have enough multiple personality disorder and the background eruditeness to sustain this full time - sooner or later the cracks will show, and people will start saying, "Oh God, not another Merovingian post - Des has gotten so stale."
June 5, 2008 2:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Des, you're brilliant, cracks or no cracks. Like Billy, you deserve a better audience. You've managed to cultivate one here out of a barren soil, but you need more room to grow if you want to use this as your medium. You'll never be stale; it's not possible.
For myself, if I've succeeded in making two friends in you and Billy, I'll consider my time here well spent. Sleep deprivation notwithstanding.
g'night.
June 5, 2008 3:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
:(
I'll miss you guys. Take care.
June 5, 2008 7:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Make that three friends. ;-)
June 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I forgot the (hugs)
:)
June 5, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
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