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Facilitating the Facile

Facilitrix still has no earthly idea what she is talking about. The Episcopal Bishop of California plainly stated that he wished his priests not marry any couples until the Church itself granted full marriage equality.  Until then, the Bishop urged all couples to marry in civil ceremonies and have their unions blessed in their parishes.

Facile seems to have a problem understanding the unambiguous meaning of Bishop Andrus's words. Today's SF Chronicle had no such problem and neither do I:

Creating equality for all

Bishop Marc Andrus, who leads a six-county Bay Area diocese based in San Francisco, is recommending a split between civil and church weddings to create equality for all.

Andrus is suggesting that all couples go to county clerks' offices or have a purely civil ceremony elsewhere. As a second step, Andrus is advising that they return to the church for a blessing. Andrus is recommending that all couples - regardless of sexual orientation - use one of the three rites approved for same-sex blessings.

"This allows the church to focus on what is genuinely spiritual about marriage and leaves the legal parts that have to do with registering and legal rights - which are tremendously important, and why we're supporting this ruling - in the hands of the state," he said.

Andrus said it is part of a natural order that churches might lead the state, and that the state might lead the church.

"We seek to intently follow Christ, but we don't contain Christ," Andrus said. "Christ transcends the boundaries of the church. ... It's not a surprise to me that the culture is going to manifest Christ in a way that summons the church to new realities. I really welcome that. I think that's the way it's meant to be."





Ref:http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/facileitatrix-facilitate-this.php#comment-2905527

Comments (15)

Quote from


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/15/MNJH1180B8.DTL

Facilitatrix might try knowing what she's are talking about before she speaks again

Works for me

The Episcopal Bishop of California (Bay Area parishes) just released the following Pastoral Letter on Gay Marriage

Translation:
Since the Church has no rite for marrying Adam and Steve, it will no longer marry Adam and Eve in the Diocese of California

xoxoxo

The Bishop of California

"... These are interim measures as the Diocese of California and The Episcopal Church continue our journey in the context of this prophetic opportunity provided by the California Supreme Court’s ruling. I have already initiated a process to arrive at a more studied, permanent answer for Episcopal clergy presiding at same-sex marriages in this diocese. That process includes the formation of a panel of diocesan clergy to make recommendations about how to move toward equality of marriage rites for all people. These recommendations will be discussed across the diocese resulting in an official diocesan policy."

"Interim measures" are not the same as "no longer." In English, they mean different things.

Bishop Marc Andrus, who leads a six-county Bay Area diocese based in San Francisco, is recommending a split between civil and church weddings to create equality for all.

Andrus is suggesting that all couples go to county clerks' offices or have a purely civil ceremony elsewhere. As a second step, Andrus is advising that they return to the church for a blessing. Andrus is recommending that all couples - regardless of sexual orientation - use one of the three rites approved for same-sex blessings.

If the reporter is accurate in characterizing the Bishop's decision as permanent, this recommendation is a change from the Bishop's letter. He must have seen your post in TPM Cafe, thought about your interpretation "no longer," and changed his initial intention for an "interim measure" and opted for your interpretation as his "permanent answer."

Wow. You win. Good work!

Wow. You win. Good work!

Oh it was nothing. I pretty much always do. But as I said, it's easy provided you know what you are talking about before you talk

Corollary: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging

Wow. You won. Good work.

Wow, not the brightest of bulbs there, eh?

FWIW, Fac, I am with you.

(Maybe he likes you. Seems a tad personal, no?)

I just hope he doesn't put a worm down my back in Geography class.

The Bishop's Letter in Full:
Next time you come to a battle of wits

Come armed

Pastoral Letter from our Bishop Regarding Same-sex Marriage June 9, 2008 Dear Sisters and Brothers in Christ, I welcome the ruling of the California Supreme Court affirming the fundamental right of all people to marry. I am writing to you now to recommend a path to use this decision to strengthen our support of our lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered sisters and brothers, and our continued witness to God’s inclusive love. Clergy and lay leaders in the diocese have been working for the rights of LGBT people and for their full inclusion in our Church for more than forty years. Today, we continue to walk a journey that includes: • Bringing the witness of our LGBT sisters and brothers to this summer’s Lambeth Conference, • Combating a ballot initiative this November that will attempt to take away the rights recently recognized by the California Supreme Court, • Providing leadership at next summer's General Convention to bring our marriage practices and theology in line with our fundamental baptismal theology. For far too long the onus has fallen on marginalized people to bear the burden of inequalities that exist within the Church, and the decision by our state’s Supreme Court has given us the opportunity to level the playing field. To that end, the Diocese of California seeks to provide, by advocacy and example, a way forward for The Episcopal Church so that the marriage of same-sex couples will be a part of our official marriage rites, without distinction. Although The Episcopal Church does not have canonical rites for same-sex marriage, it is our goal that all couples be treated equally by the Church, as they are equally loved by God. I therefore provide you with the following pastoral guidelines: • I urge you to encourage all couples, regardless of orientation, to follow the pattern of first being married in a secular service and then being blessed in the Episcopal Church. I will publicly urge all couples to follow this pattern.

• For now, the three rites approved for trial use under the pastoral direction of the bishop, adopted by resolution at the 2007 Diocesan Convention (see appendix), should be commended to all couples (again, regardless of orientation) to bless secular marriages.
• All marriages should be performed by someone in one of the secular categories set forth in California Family Code, section 400 (see appendix), noting that any person in the state of California can be deputized to perform civil marriages. The proper sphere for Episcopal clergy is the blessing portion of the marriage.
• The understanding of The Episcopal Church currently is that blessings are an extension of the pastoral office of the bishop. I ask that you continue to inform me of all same-sex blessings.
• Couples who have been married under the auspices of the California Supreme Court ruling must have the same pre-marriage counseling as that required of any couple seeking marriage or blessing of marriage in The Episcopal Church. This should be understood as an offering of the Church’s support for marriage.
• I urge Episcopalians, clergy and lay, to volunteer as Deputy Marriage Commissioners. There are over 4,000 civil same-sex marriages planned in a short period of time in the city of San Francisco alone and the city is asking for help in meeting demand. I intend to volunteer for this at my earliest opportunity. This would be one sign of affirmation for the Supreme Court ruling from our diocese. By city requirement, clergy will not be allowed to wear collars when presiding at secular marriages. (For more information about how to be deputized, see the attached appendix.)
• All people receiving blessings of civil marriages in the Diocese of California are free to use the same degree of publicity (e.g., newspaper notices).
These are interim measures as the Diocese of California and The Episcopal Church continue our journey in the context of this prophetic opportunity provided by the California Supreme Court’s ruling. I have already initiated a process to arrive at a more studied, permanent answer for Episcopal clergy presiding at same-sex marriages in this diocese. That process includes the formation of a panel of diocesan clergy to make recommendations about how to move toward equality of marriage rites for all people. These recommendations will be discussed across the diocese resulting in an official diocesan policy.
In the coming days, I will publicly state my opposition to the initiative to overturn the Supreme Court ruling. The Diocese of California will publish advertising around June 17 celebrating the Supreme Court ruling and inviting same-sex couples to our churches for pre-marital counseling and nourishment in communities of faith.
As always, I welcome your wisdom, your insights and your input on these matters, and I continue in my commitment to work for a Church that sees all of God’s children through the same eyes that God does.
Peace,
The Rt. Rev. Marc Handley Andrus
Bishop


"Interim measures" ...until the Episcopal Church recognizes the Sacarment of Marriage of same sex couples as valid


You are dumber than a stump

Isn't he a doll?
http://episcopalbayarea.org/joomla/images/stories/Institution/bishop_andrus.jpg
I'd marry Bp Andrus if he wasn't already ..and wasn't hetero

avatar

Please excuse my inability to ascertain: Are you protesting or supporting this action?

Aunt Sam,

I've given too much of my time to Mr. McCutchen, hoping that he could see that my point about his initial post was linguistic understanding. I didn't express any opinion about the Bishop's letter and subsequent statement to the press.

I am bothered by the purposeful misinterpretation and perversion of what people say through cherry-picking and ignoring obvious linguistic meaning in order to make it into something that fits an agenda. When I see this occurring, I don't let it lie.

It may be that I am misinterpreting Mr. McCutchen, because often satire and irony are difficult to recognize, especially when they are done ham-fistedly. That said, I believe that Mr. McCutchen is unhappy with the Bishop's proposal. Perhaps same-sex marriage offends his sensibilities. Perhaps he wishes that the Episcopal Church still used the 1928 version of The Book of Common Prayer, or maybe even the 1662 version. Whatever the reason, he's angry enough about it to mock the Bishop of California, call me names, and threaten you.

I'm finished with him. But watch your back, Aunt Sam. If you feel harassed by him, use the SEND COMMENTS AND NEWS TIPS button at the top of the page and direct the email to Andrew Golis. He's the one who monitors trolls and harassment. Let him know what's happened, and he may well take some action.

Oh, by the way. I think the Bishop's decision is a good one. He seems to be following a "what would Jesus do?" way of making decisions.

avatar

Thanks. I was pretty sure he wasn't PRO this action.
I was raised Episcopalian and support this action.
That said, I will say a prayer for Mr. McCSF.
(I must have missed his threat directed towards me. Ho Hum.)

Civil marriage rites rather than religious marriage rites were once the norm in America. The colonist @ Plymouth opted for civil ceremonies and the other New England colonies followed suit. I have no idea when this changed, but it was a change for the worse.

avatar

Agreed. In my opinion, the government should not be decreeing who should and shouldn't be able to be 'married' (age exception noted). Religious communities/religions can have their own guidelines for conducting wedding ceremonies, but 'the state' should recognize civil unions (i.e. marriage) equally. 'Equal rights for all'....I believe in the separation of church and state when it comes to the 'rights' of equal benefits, status, etc.

This is just a test to see if it posts. I'm finding it possible to respond to another "below the fold" post and other problems with the site. so please excuse.

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