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Camille Paglia on HRC for Veep

From today's Salon:


 


Hillary for veep? Are you mad? What party nominee worth his salt would chain himself to a traveling circus like the Bill and Hillary Show? If the sulky bearded lady wasn't biting the new president’s leg, the oafish carnival barker would be sending in the clowns to lure all the young ladies into back-of-the-tent sword-swallowing. It would be a seamy orgy of scheming and screwing. Hillary could never be content with second place. But neither could an alpha male like Obama. The vice-president should be an accomplished but subordinate personality. An Obama-Hillary ticket might tickle party regulars, but it would be a big fat minus in the general election. Republicans have shrewdly stockpiled a mammoth arsenal of past scandals to strafe Hillary with. Only a sentimental masochist would want to relive the tawdry 1990s.


It gets better:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/06/11/hillary/print.html


Comments (125)

When did Paglia become an astute political commentator? When she started going after Hillary Clinton?

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Camille has an unrequited crush on Hillary. She acts like a little boy who likes a little girl and displays it by tormenting her in school.

Hi, Billy.

Well, if you check out her Salon columns, it seems to go back to before Hillary wore pants suits.

God. I read Sexual Persona or whatever it was years ago. She's never met a man who could live up to her father. And now she's a politico? Where did she get the cred?

If you're not a Hillary fan, her nearly pathological Hillary rants can be kind of entertaining, but even I find myself doing the *cough*issues*cough* when I read her.

I thought it was pretty lame. I was fascinated by the info on the make-up though -- I wondered how they got that look she had for the debates! Her skin was gorgeous!

I hope those skin geniuses won't defect to McCain!

Anh. You might be amused by her right now, and maybe it's because you're still mad at Clinton...so this might seem fun for now. But I think Obama supporters should reject Camille Paglia--unless she improves her writing style. She reminds me of Maureen Dowd. Catty and mean.

Feh.

You're right. And I wholeheartedly support Barak Obama and never supported Clinton. But in this case, you are absolutely right.

Yeah, second-rate Dowd. And even Dowd's always mocking cynicism is old.

Not even. I couldn't make it past the second paragraph of this article the writing is so bad. A feeble attempt at being Dowd. Failed miserably.

Don't you mean "full-throatedly"?

You're a gracious lady.

Yeah, but who would you rather mud wrestle with?

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Her absurd prose, in and of itself, is seizure inducing. However, Camille Paglia is truly awful and the criticism of her should go far beyond her terrible prose. In the context of public intellectuals, obviously a loose category, she might be the least thoughtful, least insightful human being I have ever had the displeasure to read. The article cited above, like everything she writes, is a complete mess of unsupported assertions and dimwitted attacks dressed up with what she clearly believes are clever rhetorical flourishes. She is, as always, entirely too pleased with herself and her vicious and poorly focused meanderings.

I am an Obama supporter. If I thought for a second that this meant that I would have to align myself with the ridiculous rantings of someone like Paglia, I would have to seriously reconsider my position. Thankfully, it won't come to that. She remains as irrelevant as she ever was.

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Yes Hillary should be the VP.......McCains VP.

Its the only chance he has.

While for the most part I agree with the above posts, this caught my eye:
'It wasn't sexism that cost Hillary the nomination: It was her own misjudgments and mismanagement of a campaign that had the massive support of the nationwide party establishment, constructed by her husband -- to whom she owes her entire career..... What kind of feminism is this -- .. Hillary's latest pose as tribune of the people is contradicted by ... her indifference to the legions of small vendors whom her extravagant campaign has stiffed. And no true feminist would tolerate or enable that decades-long pattern of brazen philandering and crude sexual harassment that will forever brand the Clinton chronicles. When will our paleo-feminist dead-enders wake up to the psychological reality that compulsive seducers are misogynists?'
While I do take issue with her owing Bill for her career when I believe it's vice-versa, the majority of issues in at least this paragraph is (in my opinion) valid (minus the snark).
Her campaign was mismanaged - her non-payment of debt to small vendors is fact (and before the well ran dry, there was great extravagance-as noted on FEC and other documented sources) - And well about Bill, anyone wanna argue with that one?
However, with Camille it's always over the top - too much, too long, too I'm so smart, you're not! But, amidst the drivel, there is sometimes a bit of 'spot on'. A wee bit.

Yes, I fucking want to argue with that one.

Bill got 10 blow jobs off Monica over 5 months. He had a one-night stand with Gennifer Flowers a decade earlier. What else do you have? Empty hands. So hop on over to NRO online and hang out with your jism loving buddies. They love to speculate and expectorate on anything that might have happened in their alternate universe.

You pass this shit and dare to use the word "feminism" in the same paragraph? Be gone.

Yeah, according to the rules, you need to get at least eleven blowjobs before you can truly be called a misogynistic fucking slimy pig who cheated on his wife. At least the rule book I read...

Mind your own business before I have you spade and declawed, puss. Women control their own bodies and make their own decisions. It's 2008, even though you're one medieval sounding feline. Took a catnap for 500 years? Rip van Pussle?

"Spayed", though using a spade brings some nice connotations.

Ah, just a little consensual sex between a married man and his White House concubine. Seems weird that a modern young woman like Chelsea won't talk about it. Do you think he was banging Monica because Hillary wouldn't suck him off, or do you think he was just going for a little variety?

One of the most disappointing things about some Progressives is their uptight sexuality.

I'm sure Hillary would totally agree. I mean, what's ten harmless blowjobs over a five month period? It's not like it was a three month period or anything. It's like, practically nothing. If you can't stick a cigar in a pudgy little intern every once in awhile, what the fuck good is being president?

You know what Mick said, don't you? When in doubt, go for the blow job. M. Jagger, 1966, Frankfurt, Germany. Who do you play for? Lawrence Welk?

Who do you play for? Lawrence Welk?

If I did, you'd be the last to know. You know what Joe Strummer said about rock stars dealing death as a lifestyle? Don't believe the stories, hot dog. Mick Jagger's life is Mick Jagger's life.

"My minute equals your year." - Lou Reed

Play nice or I'll take that kitty rabbit avatar away like I took your weenie. You just seem so square. Definitely too square to know Lou or much about him even.

You quote Mick Jagger from 1966 and you call me square, Grandpa? You got any heroes that were born after 1980?

I not only quote him from 1966, I quote him from an interview I did with him in 1966. I'm an old man. You're supposed to be young and hip, but you're so square. You should be out getting or giving blow jobs, not fretting about Bill Clinton's.

Seriously. I don't know what goes on these days, but even in the 80s we didn't think of BJs as real sex. They just didn't count. I was always struck by how frustrated Bill must have been that he couldn't just explain that to people. When he tried to say I didn't have sex with that woman, he just dug a deeper hole. Laughable.

Leave Junior alone, Gramps - he only knows what he got from American Pie I & II. Hard not to be scared of that thing down there when you've only seen it on a web cam.

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rofl!

I'll bet I'm older than you, geezer. Physically anyway. I was playing Danceteria and CB's when you were in kneepants.

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Were you desperately seeking Susan?

Hey Billy, here's a fun game. I'm not going to tell you who I am, but I'll give you a few hints:

There's currently a popular death-core band that just released a cover version of a single my band released over ten years ago. Not only that, but said death-core band stole the three-letter name of my former band, thinking they'd never get famous so we'd never find out.

The same song was also covered and released as an indie single by a Boston band a few years ago.

A band from New York that includes former members of two bands that were at least partially named after drugs released a cover version of another of my songs about two years ago.

There's a new movie out featuring live footage of my band performing both songs. If you guess it right, I'll send you a shiny new dime.

I need some more hints, man.

Being in MN, are you friends with Greg Norton? From the sound of it, you may have crossed musical paths at some point.

OK, I'm gonna give it all up here. The thread's old, so Billy G. probably won't read it so no problem (probably nobody will read it--fine with me). I just looked Greg Norton up. Husker Du? That sounds sorta familiar, but I don't know him and I don't know if we would have crossed paths. I wasn't living in the country at that time and I was more in the jazz scene anyway (doing stuff that would make most rock musicians sick). This won't help you at all, but most of the MN musicians I know and have played with are jazz and blues guys: Tony Cox, Milo Fine, Charlie Bingham, Gordy Knudtson, Tony Glover (the guy who taught Billy Glad's buddy Mick how to play the harp), Billy Peterson--guys like that. Ring any bells?

Back then I was doing some pretty outside stuff. Think Albert Ayler/Sunny Murray meets Iannis Xenakis--free jazz with a touch of musique concrete thrown in. Really hard, in-your-face shit--the kind of thing you hear at art openings and in my basement. One of my all-time heroes is Anthony Braxton, and we were playing around with some of his compositional ideas at the time. The guy's a freakin' genius, and completely under-appreciated. I quit gigging for a few years and did a short stint doing installations for Max Neuhaus in New York, worked as a roadie for Jan Garbarek on his first U.S. tour, worked as a guitar tech for Peter Blegvad for a few months, and did sound for Oliver Lake and Jump Up for a summer. I didn't get into rock/pop until years later. I was living in Chicago at the time, and I started doing Banghra remixes for some crazy-cool Punjabi bands (Donald, where's your troosers?), and I just totally lost my shit over it and decided to start exploring it. And now I'm doing stuff that people tell me sounds like a cross between Achanak and Soft Machine/Matching Mole. And none of this will help anyone figure out who I am. So no dime for you, and no dime for Billy Glad either.

Cheers. It was a fucking gas dredging up all these memories. Sometimes I forget all the weird shit I've done.

Wasn't really lookin' for a dime anyhow.

Most of those names don't ring a bell, but I'm gonna have a ball learning about them. Thanks.

Since we're slinging musical war stories, I got to hang out in Doc Watson's tent this past weekend, though I mostly just shut up and listened to Doc answer a lot of questions and warm up. We played a festival that he headlined.

At 85 he's still one of the greatest musicians I'm ever likely to see.

Doc's amazing. I won't ask you who you play with, but it sounds like you're into some great stuff. Anyone who knows and loves the Louvin Brothers is cool with me. :)

By the way, if you live in Minneapolis and you ever get a chance to hear Charlie Bingham, go for it. One of the sweetest blues guitarists alive today. Right up there with Roy Alstead in the pantheon of Minneapolis guitar greats.

Monica wasn't an intern then, you moron. NRO is calling, you can hang out with your intellectual equivalents, Jonah Goldberg and K-Lo, while playing ring toss and snorting catnip.

You seem to be awfully upset about a little marital infidelity.

I'm upset about ignorant pets spreading lies and recycled Republican smears that only serve to destroy any type of agreement. No telling what your interests are.

What "lie", precisely, am I spreading? Did Bill not stick his presidential willy into Monica's mouth on several well-documented occasions? Are you delusional? The guy admitted it. What the hell is wrong with you?

For me, there's one big problem with Hillary's complaint which I think Paglia and others have accurately pointed out: politics ain't beanbag, and Hillary damn well knew that when she decided to run. So why whine about it later when it turns out to be true? In politics, to play the sexism card is just a desperate strategy. No one who knows anything about the game takes the charge seriously, and no one should. Because everyone--everyone--goes into it knowing that the rules are that the winner wins and the loser loses and all's fair in between. And Hillary, of all people, understood that. She's the one who declared that getting down in the dirt was "the fun part". Well, she had her "fun," and it turned out it wasn't nearly as much fun as she thought it would be. Tough shit for her, huh? Yeah. Tough shit for her.

This from someone who has never even run for dog catcher. Pontificate on, my man, pontificate on.

Ooh, ouch Billy. Always ready with a biting put-down. Touche'.

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Aunt Sam you are dead on....hit the nail on the head, etc. etc....

She should have left him years ago and maybe then she could have won this primary but now I think her best chance is to finally dump Bill, revisit her Goldwater Girl days and offer her services as John McCains VP..........god I love this 2008 election year.

What Digby said:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/cobwebs-by-digby-from-kathy-g-i-see.html

I honestly don't know how I feel about having this ludicrous sideshow act [Paglia] on my side. I guess it's a good thing --- the more votes the better, right? But I can't help feeling that something very bad will happen.

What I'd say is that Paglia's schtick relies on a very boring kind of pop cultural triangulation.

What I'd say is that Paglia's schtick relies on the knowledge that no one hands out power. If you want it, you take it. And if you don't have what it takes to grab what you want and hang onto it, then whining about racism or sexism or whateverism when you lose will only get you kicked back down to the basement. Where you belong.

One thing about sore losers is that they always seem to be able to come up with some reason for why they lost. A good sport just shakes your hand, congratulates you on a game well played and comes back to kick your ass another day.

Hillary knows the game. No one in this race was more gleeful about announcing that all's fair in politics. As far as I'm concerned, once you've made that proclamation, you've forfeited the right to make excuses for yourself. But not Hillary. She gets special rules. Because she's a woman.

I'll take Camille over Katie Couric any day of the week.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/katie-couric-sexist-media_n_106595.html

If this was really about sexism and not just about Hillary, I might buy it.

Are you riffing on the Paglia quote up top, or the Paglia quote on display at the link I provided?

It's gotten to the point that I can hardly listen to my favorite [conservative talk radio] shows, which were once both informative and entertaining. The hackneyed repetition is numbing and tedious, and the overt character assassination is ethically indefensible.

Paglia's new read on conservative talk radio strikes me as a kind of indefensible cheekily-covert triumphalism. What special rule makes that OK for Camille? Perhaps it's the rule that states that triangulation for a purveyor of the American scene never carries the same penalty as the one that awaits a failed practitioner of triangulated politics? What I've obviously failed to grasp is that Paglia understands power, whereas Hillary merely wields it, or loses it, but in either case, never quite understands it. Touché, Camille. Although, if I might add, the day you're tasked with delivering a concession speech is the day I begin to take you seriously.

Hillary's never had it. And as long as her main claim to it is her status as the wife of a former president, she never will. But I'll agree with you on one thing: Hillary's concession speech may well have been her personal declaration of independence. If, one day, she finally comes to terms with the fact that this was her loss and no one else's, she'll be in a much better position to claim what she now wrongly believes was rightfully hers.

Camille Paglia is probably 99% full of shit. But she gets the feminist thing. It's not about women's rights. It's just about living your life and taking responsibility for your gender-irrelevant self. As a guy who loves to go camping without the benefit of gear, I have a tendency to judge people by who I'd want to be lost in the woods with--in the rain with no matches and no map and no food. Over the years I've had to ditch more than one whiner and leave them to find their own limousine home. Camille gets my vote. Hillary? Not so much.

I'm going to treasure this one for a long, long time.

Thing is, I think a lot of us were beginning to clue into the whole identity-irrelevance thing well before Paglia came onto the scene. She's an academic-cum-writer-cum-self-promoter whose job is to sniff out the existence of folks like you and me and make a buck off singing our praises and/or otherwise convincing us of our own perspicacity.

We got lost in the woods somewhere around 2000/2001, and now here comes along this guy Barack, who's talking to us like maybe he knows that we know that we're more-than-ready to get over the whining and finally get down to mapping out how to get from lost to where we oughta be ...

... but at the same time I'm trying to listen to what he's saying, I've got Camille jumping up and down next to me saying, he's right, he's right, but we need to offer up some kinda burnt offering in the form of Hillary's BBQ'd carcass before we can get on with it.

Whatever, Camille. I think the comparison with Dowd is correct:

You're.Not.Helping.

Especially when what I've got roasting on my campfire is nearly cooked to perfection and you wanna come along and throw gasoline on the fire.

Sorry, hrebendorf, please don't blame me for my unwieldy metonymy, or metaphor, or whatever it is that your ungodly rabbicat chimera thing has provoked ... it was you who brought up the whole camping thang. Deal.

... but at the same time I'm trying to listen to what he's saying, I've got Camille jumping up and down next to me saying, he's right, he's right, but we need to offer up some kinda burnt offering in the form of Hillary's BBQ'd carcass before we can get on with it.

An excellent point. But let's not forget that it was Hillary (and her supporters) who brought up the sexism thing. And you can hardly expect people like Paglia NOT to jump into the fray once that endlessly fascinating subject has been gagged up once again. I'm just saying that if I have to pick a side, I'll always go with the one who spikes the Kool Aid.

PS: What I'm saying is that Hillary and her supporters have charged Tucker Carlson and Chris Matthews and the rest of those idiots with bringing sexism into the race. But she can't have it both ways. If she's gonna tell Barack Obama that he should get out of the kitchen if he can't stand the heat, then Hillary should have got the hell out of the kitchen. Because NOBODY should have had to listen to her whine about the heat. To torture the metaphor further, Hillary said she wanted a bonfire. Then, when Matthews, Carlson, and the rest threw on a little kindling, she said, "Not that kind of bonfire." Whatever. Women are like that. It's no wonder we never let them run for president.

Look puss, there's no way making Nurse Ratched jokes, analyzing Hillary's cleavage or calling her a "vaginal American" is called for in any professional environment or was in anyway justified by anything Hillary said or did. Give it up. You're just bringing new twists to the word "ridiculous".

Oh, I hadn't realized that we were talking about a professional environment. I thought we were talking about the media. My bad.

Women are like that. It's no wonder we never let them run for president.

HRB, I love you. I love your sass, I love your snark, I love when you take just about anyone on. But, that last line was bullshit, yeah? You threw that one out there just for a reaction? 'Cuz if you meant it, I'm gonna have to cut you off...I mean it!

Not the first time you've heard that, is it?

I've never been good at good-byes, but I'm never at a loss for a parting non sequitur.

It's been fun. I need to lighten up, so I'm gonna go relax to the soothing sounds of the latest release from Geraldine F. and Larry Johnson (aka "Ricky") ...

http://www.houseplantpicturestudio.com/HPS/gernricky/gerrickfrontcover.html


HOLY SHIT. Here's what I'm spinnin' these days:

http://lpcoverlover.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/img_3539.JPG

LOUVINS!

We sing a few Louvin tunes. Incomparable shit.

Oh, crap. Rabbicat wants to play. Whatever. I've run into your type before. All high and mighty and self-righteous, some kinda newfangled hybrid. Not enough to let a sleeping dog lie, is it? So now I gotta go and do my best bojangles for you, is that it? Watch the white chinaman dance, is it?

Racist.

I seen you comin' with your high-falutin' ways. Letting a sleeping dog lie is one thing, but letting a lying dog sleep is something else altogether, for Mr. Hrebendorf. And so you bring it. Carry on.

This dog's done for today.

Not quite yet, as it turns out.

I'm just goofin' around here callin' you a racist. And you were just goofin' when you wrote this, right?

Women are like that. It's no wonder we never let them run for president.

As I've commented elsewhere today, who you callin' "we" kemosabe?

I think he's hanging around you because he thinks you might have some dry matches.

I do, but I've been waiting for you to bring the kindling.

Sorry, that went up before I'd completed my thoughts on the subject. If you don't know what's for dinner, it's you.

Roasted varmint stew? Thanks but no thanks. Picking burnt kitty hair out of my teeth is no way to spend an evening at home.

No. I wasn't kidding. I was trying to piss you off. I'm cool like that.

And it keeps the natives entertained. All good.

Wow. Apparently Olbermann's not buying the sexism charge either.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/keith-olbermann-names-kat_n_106689.html

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Keith Olbermann: The Oracle.

They make a perfect pair of uptight squares. Olbermann and the kitty. Olbermann should do his ERM imitation holding the kitty in his lap.

You give away your own squarity when you start calling people "uptight", gramps. You aren't one of those people who thinks Queen was the best. band. ever. are you?

Really, kitty litter, you must leave it to us. Everybody can see you for the uptight square you are. You need to stay off the sexual persona threads. How are you going to live this down? A "musician" putting people down for BJs? I couldn't even have made that up.

I could give a rat's ass about the blowjobs. In fact, I'd like it just fine if Bill or Hillary gave ME a blowjob. Or you, for that matter.

I'm just grooving on the image of a feline into rat's ass and rodent head - who would have guessed? "Where fleas the size of rats sucked on cats the size of rats, this ain't rock 'n roll, this is genocide".

You're dating yourself, pard.

Don't worry, it's still at the holding hands and petting stage, but I am a good listener.

I had Diamond dogs on 8-track

:(

By the way, do suppose Hillary considers a blowjob sex? How about Chelsea? How about Bill? I suppose Hillary would have to be awfully "uptight" and "square" to get upset about something so minor, right? "What's going on, Bill?" "Just getting a blowjob from the pudgy intern, Hill." "Ah, carry on, Bill. Oh, by the way, when you're done, I'd like you to take out the garbage." "No problem, Hill. Unh. Unh. Suck it you little slut."

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You obviously have blowjob issues.

As does half the Democratic Party it seems.

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Totally bizarre. Must be gender-role issues. Still battling over taking out the garbage.

Actually no. I have perjury issues. No problem with blow jobs, though. In fact, you can blow me too, if you like.

Thanks, but I'd rather blow chunks, and that ain't the name of a dog.

I wasn't offering to let you blow me. That was directed to readytoblowhrebendorf. Blow chunks? What, am I being too un-square for you?

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My house or the white house? I think uptight guys are hot.

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heh. Like I said, he has blowjob issues.

A cat with bunny ears is going to play "your favorite band sucks" and "you're so square"? You probably record episodes of "stupid pet tricks" so you can rewatch them in your spare time. Hint: if you think the dogs-playing-poker poster is one of the most hilarious things you've ever seen, perhaps life isn't worth living.

Funny you should mention that. Some friends gave me a "your favorite band sucks" t-shirt for Christmas this year. Not because I hate music. Only because I hate everything they listen to.

Let me guess... they're into Queen?

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Could be anything. His references only go back to Queen.

Freddy Mercury is God. So is Joe Satriani. They once forced me to sit through an entire Emerson fucking Lake and Palmer video. I had to puke down my shirt so as to avoid offending them.

Thus the new t-shirt. It's all becoming clearer. Perhaps a career as pet psychologist is in my lucky stars...

The guy is so obviously a loser. Can you imagine what his music is like?

The guy is so obviously a loser.

You'd know, doorknob.

Can you imagine what his music is like?

Imagining is as close as you'll ever get, Billy Gasbag.

Probably dead on arrival anyway.