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A Genuine Question for Honest Clinton Supporters
As someone who has always fully supported Obama, it is very difficult for me to understand exactly where Hillary Clinton's supporters have come from (though I do understand... admittedly, only to a certain extent). Hillary Clinton just conceded the nomination to Senator Obama in a speech I can only describe as heartfelt, inspiring, and genuinely honest. It was a side of Hillary that I had never really seen. But this post is not about me. It's about you, the loyal Clinton supporters who, against all the odds, supported her throughout the primary. I know there are probably few of you here on TPM. But even so, I would like to hear from you.
My question to you is, how has her speech, and her strong, unequivocal endorsement of Senator Obama, impacted you? Has it changed your perceptions of Obama? Has it inspired you to support him? If so, do you think other Clinton supporters will follow suit? Do you think it was the right thing for her to do? And, I guess, most importantly, do you think her speech and endorsement will help to unite the party?
I'm sure there are myriad other similar questions. It's up to you. But I'm curious. I would like to know how Clinton supporters are now feeling.
"When you hear people saying or think to yourself, “If only, or, “What if,” I say, please, don’t go there. Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward.
Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high
to dwell on what might have been. We have to work together for what
still can be." -Hillary Rodham Clinton
Comments (27)
My own thoughts regarding Hillary Clinton (re-posted from another blog... I thought they were good enough to warrant a re-posting):
I do admire Hillary. For all the nastiness of the primary campaign, who couldn't? Not only did she give us one of the most entertaining and interesting elections ever, but she broke barriers and boundaries that only a few years prior I would have said would not have been possible.
I admire Hillary because she is a timeless figure of the Democratic Party, and because, despite what her opponents (myself included) may say sometimes, she's doing what she truly believes is best.
She has fought and will continue to fight for the rights of all Americans, black, white, red, brown, yellow and all the shades in between.
I know that despite her loss she will do whatever is required to see that Obama wins and there is a Democrat in the White House. I know that despite her loss she will continue to work towards Universal Healthcare, low-cost education, higher quality of life in all areas.
I admire Hillary because, as frustrating as it is sometimes, she is a fighter. I believe perhaps her Rocky analogy was not incorrect. Perhaps she didn't win the battle, but she went the distance. Thank you Hillary, not only for all you've done for the Democratic party, but for all of America. Thank you!
June 7, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
My first question is if you wanted what we thought why did you post what you thought?
June 7, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Basically as a gesture of, "it's time for healing". I was one of the most outspoken critics of Senator Clinton, but my feelings, too, have changed as a result of her concession speech.
June 7, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You changed feelings on a speech? Now that, I truely don't get.....could you explain it? Do you let the style you see out of a Candidate to sway you more than the Party Plastform and the Candidates own ideas?
June 7, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the issue is that I always supported most of Senator Clinton's platforms. Let's be honest: Senator Obama and Senator Clinton do not differ greatly in their policies. After only a few debates, it was tiring to hear the same talking points. As we saw with the ABC debate, the majority of questions had to do with, really, non-issues.
So if I feel strongly in favor of more than one candidate's policies, to where to I turn? The candidate him(or her)self. Obama inspired me. Clinton did not. Obama spoke to me. Clinton did not. Obama was able to bring to tears with his speeches. Clinton was not. Obama could bring me to truly believe him, and to truly believe in his message of hope and change. Clinton could not.
But in her concession speech, I was able to see a side of her that I had never seen before. I was able to see, perhaps, what many of her supporters had seen. And so, though it may not be one speech, it is the feelings it invoked in me. I truly believed her message and her words, for the first time since she had announced her campaign. I found her to be genuine and honest.
In response to someone's statement concerning the "eye of the beholder" principle, I wrote the following:
Sure, the "eye of the beholder" argument can be made. But I supported Senator Clinton at the beginning of her candidacy. And I watched speeches and campaign events of hers throughout 2007. I was not completely opposed to her campaign. But even then, I never felt I was getting the true Hillary Clinton. Not the one from when she was first lady.
Upon reflection, I find it no different than the difference in Al Gore from the 2000 Election to now. He does not seem like the same person. His entire way of speaking, acting, moving, and being, has changed.
My only guess is that Hillary was playing the politician before, and in this speech, she was simply playing herself.
It is not a criticism so much as it is an observation, and a genuine sadness that this side of her was not there throughout the primary season. Perhaps I would not have been so against her if that had been the case. I don't know.
But I cannot dwell on the past. In Senator Clinton's own words:
"When you hear people saying or think to yourself, “If only, or, “What if,” I say, please, don’t go there. Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward.
Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been. We have to work together for what still can be."
...
I hope that helps you understand.
June 7, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, sure it helps. Thanks for that. I can see where your coming from.
June 7, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary gave an amazing speech. While she will continue to campaign for Obama in this one moment she has done all she really can do. She let go of the nomination, made an unequivocal plea for party unity, released her supporters and pointed them in the direction she would like them to go, and gave us her reasons that we should go that way. I knew she would endorse Obama but I never expected it to be this inspiring. Yet as much as she can endorse, inspire, and point her supporters in a direction people still think and decide for themselves.
Hillary has more then done her part to unify the party. Now it is up to Obama. Like any candidate his job during an election is to convince people to vote for him. I know you don't agree, but there are some who feel Obama is a very flawed candidate. He has 5 months to convince as many as he can that we are wrong.
June 7, 2008 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for your candor in honesty. And though you're right, disagree that Obama is a very flawed candidate (though he has his flaws, as every human does), I do believe it is his job to convince voters to vote for him.
I will say that Hillary should campaign for Obama, especially in the states that he lost in the Primary. A single speech can only do so much, as inspiring as it is.
June 7, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really good post.
The Great and Growing Divide
Many of us watched today as Hillary Clinton said something that physically hurt to hear. She asked us to support Barack Obama. Loyal Democrat that she is, and true to her word, Hillary did the unimaginable. She asked the rest of us to support someone that many of us actually loathe. And that is putting it mildly.
But Hillary did something else today that is already having ramifications throughout the country. Hillary supporters are taking sides. And there are basically two camps. One camp that is sticking with the party and one camp that isn’t
Reforming the party from within is wishful thinking. The only way a party reforms is by humiliating defeat, running off the rails, or egregious abuse in the opposition party.
If BO is elected, they will be in charge of the party…in fact are in charge of the party as we speak. Try to go talk to them about reform. Go talk to them about counting every vote…about changing the caucus system to transparent primaries. Tell them how you feel about it. I think we all know what the attitude will be.
For me…my only recourse is to withhold my support from the current party leadership and the BO party leadership. It’s a drop in the bucket but I don’t feel like I will be complicit in Republican style tactics…even if they worked.
Ronmaven echoed the sentiment and clarified it:
The defeat of Obama would be the best kick in the pants for the DNC we could possibly deliver. You want to CHANGE the party? Vote for McCain. You want the party to only get worse? Vote for O.
To some, NOT supporting Obama is the moral thing to do.
Ccwarrior perhaps says it best:
easy decision for me I will sellout the party that SOLD me out. and I can live with that. I would never dis-respect my daughters, and vote for Obama after the treatment they witnessed from him doing this election …NEVER
But I have saved the best for last. Before I put it out there I want to make one thing very clear. I have nothing but the deepest respect for linfar. She has been a staunch Hillary supporter and she is such an excellent writer. I just happen to totally disagree with her about Obama and unfortunately may have to write things in the future that criticize her positions. It isn’t something I look forward to.
But having said that I think that unfortunately linfar grabbed a mug full of the Cult-Aide today because low and behold, she quotes from none other than the Prince of Darkness himself (Jonathan Singer) to make her point.
from mydd
Singer: Can you speak to the online supporters, the people online who are so strong for Hillary, who don’t want to see her leave, as a strong
Hillary supporter yourself?
Sen. Chuck Schumer: As a strong Hillary support I say, look, I was for Hillary all the way. I was sort of the first Senator to endorse her and I guess I’ll be the last off the bandwagon, which I guess will be tomorrow. But, having said that, I would say to all of the people online, there’s too much at stake to sit this out, to be angry, to be bitter. There is too much at stake. A Supreme Court with more Alitos and Roberts. A continuation of the war in Iraq.
A failure to have a healthcare policy that helps people. A failure to have an energy policy that frees us from foreign oil. All these are such huge things that we have to do what Hillary said there, which is overcome, not look back, even though there are lot’s of disappointments, but look forward.
I expected these bugaboos coming from Schumer. But a little reality never hurt anyone. Except Cultists I’m told. We hear the same nonsense you would expect from otherwise seemingly reasonable people. The trouble is that they think they will be able to bamboozle and scare us with their line of bullshit.
Everything Schumer mentions is something that the Congress controls, not the President. Supreme Court… confirmed by the Senate. Iraq War funding…. controlled by Congress. Health Care policy…. written by Congress. Energy policy… written by Congress.
SO WAKE UP! And stop letting these people get away with lying to you.
The reason Bush has got away with so much and has done as much damage as he has these past 7 years is because of a weak, feckless and complicit Congress. A Congress that has allowed him to do everything he has done. Because a strong Congress acting in the best interests of the American people would never have allowed Bush to do many of the things they are so fond of complaining about.
Where were the Articles of Impeachment? The Speaker of the House said that they would never be introduced.
Why has the Congress continued to fund the war? The Senate Majority leader doesn’t know how to throw a knock out punch.
Why are Americans still being spied upon? WHY?!?
In fact, the Supreme Court that Schumer and others are warning us about has done more to stop Bush than all of the Democrats in Congress combined. So enough of these silly myths. I half expect Obama to come out next and state: “You are either for us or against us.” Wanna guess what my answer will be?
These spats. This falling apart is expected. And it will likely become more vicious and personal as the days wear on. I fully understand those that are toeing the party line. I used to be one of them. Until this year. Until the Democratic party proved to me that it didn’t really stand for anything any more.
June 7, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Might I add, you raise many many MANY excellent questions.
June 7, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bullshit. She's a troll, as I'm beginning to think you are.
June 7, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, she's made this post in many other topics around the site. Hah.
June 7, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would you freaking people stop calling people with ideas that don't fit exactly into your Obamaista bible trolls. For gods sakes can't people openly speak their minds without you people calling us names?
June 7, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
About michelle, I think he has some real validation.
June 7, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
copy paste
June 7, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
But my question to you is, how exactly did the party "sell you out"? This is something that I don't think I will ever quite understand. Obama received the needed number of delegates fair and square, did he not? Hillary did not. Whether you disagree with the system currently in place, is not a politician's job to play to the system, as Obama did with the caucus system, in order to rack up delegates?
And even if you believe that the party sold you out, don't you believe that there are some things more important than simply the party? Aren't there issues that transcend party lines? I find myself unable to vote for Republicans because of their staunch anti-gay and anti-choice views, for example. I could never bring myself to support such hatred. How could anyone give their vote to John McCain, who also professes such things?
Even if Obama had lost, I probably would have voted for Clinton, because, in the end, it's truly the issues that matter, and John McCain does not support the issues that Clinton herself supports. So why abandon all your beliefs to give a simple "fuck you" to the party? After all and in the end, Clinton belongs to the party.
June 7, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am an independent and was on the fence.
I did not like HRC's tactics and waffled on supporting her if she won the nomination
The more I learned about McCain, the more I realized I could only vote Democrat this go-round.
McCain is a boring, crude old man with no foresight and no vision. Those who would vote for him do it begrudgingly or because they could never vote Dem or have other personal issues.
June 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a Democrat and vote Democratic. He is the Nominee and he will get my support and Vote. Am I pleased that he is? Not really. I think we bought ourselves another John Kerry/Mike Dukakis. I was very impressed by David Axelrod so maybe he can keep the magic working.
As I have posted elsewhere her speech brought tears to my eyes. She is a very inspiring person and has throughout her career put the idea of helping others ahead of her own ambition. I just felt it was rather sad that others in the Party bought into the MSM fantasy about who Hillary Clinton is.
Lastly, there are deep deep fissures within the party. Obama is going to have to do a good job of uniting this party first before he does anything else. As Ocean has said Hillary did her part. She isn't going to be part of this Administration. Its his to win now.
June 7, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
"As Ocean has said Hillary did her part."
No, but she has made a start. Are you just going to be bitter your whole life? Because you continually puncture any attempt at goodwill. Stop your whining.
Yes, this has been a hard-fought campaign, but I've lived through a dozen other hard-fought presidential primary campaigns and didn't always get the satisfaction of seeing my candidate nominated. That fact never soured me on the nominee like you're soured on Obama.
Take a cue from the Serenity Prayer, because you're addicted to a person, not the fight for a better country. Grow up.
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."
June 7, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again with the name calling. What exactly do you want? Did I not say I was voting for him? Did I not say I would be working in the campaign in Ohio? Did you expect that Hillary supporters would all the sudden be jumping up and down at the prospect of an Obama Presidency? If that is what your thought is...your mistaken. I am not bitter. I'v fought hard for a Candidate and lost before. I hold no grudges. I am just here to remind you that there are big questions that Barack needs to answer. He better get at it.
June 7, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Today just confirmed what I have known all along. That I voted, donated, and supported a person who is a true leader. I see no point now in trying to explain why, it is irrelevant now. It did not change my perception of Obama, sorry but it only reinforced my belief in her. Of course, it was the right thing for her to do. She is, after all a democrat. A democrat that shares my values much more than Obama. As for my vote, I am a union man for almost 20 years. I have never voted for a republican before and don't plan to this time. I will not enjoy pulling the lever for Obama.
June 7, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am curious as to which values that Obama has that you do not share?
June 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good question.
June 8, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
For me, it's this one.
June 8, 2008 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Something Someone told me once when reading articles is to consider the source. The writer of the article Sean Wilentz isn't the most non-biased observer. He's been a Clinton Company person as far back as the Clinton impeachment trials.
"Wilentz appeared before the House Judiciary Committee on December 8, 1998 to argue against the Clinton impeachment. His testimony — he told the House members that, if they voted for impeachment but were not convinced Clinton's offenses were impeachable, "history will track you down and condemn you for your cravenness" — cheered Democratic partisans but was criticized by the New York Times, which lamented his "gratuitously patronizing presentation" in an editorial."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Wilentz
Race Man Article.
Now let's go to the actual text of the article. First Wilentz claims that Obama circulated flyers and ran an ad claiming that there are fines for not having health insurance. Well, under Sen. Clinton's plan, Health care IS mandatory. The only way that states with mandatory Universal health care (i.e. Massachusetts) have enforced this is with fines.
The Next thing he sites is Obama reference to Sen. Clinton's backing of NAFTA. Which has been shown time and time again, publicly she supported it in her time as a first lady. What she did behind close doors is but anyone else's guess. And it's very easy for someone years after the ramifications of an agreement to say, "Yeah, it doesn't work so well now."
Next he talks about the Somali photos which were spread by clinton campaign workers (who were fired) Did we hear Obama blame Sen. Clinton for this. No. Did some of his surrogates, yeah, but that's the job of the surrogates.
The Article goes on to site an interview where Mark Penn mentions cocaine after 10 minutes of questioning. Well look at the tape (not the short clip he shows, but the one that shows the entire segment so you'll see it's a 3 way interview with the strategists of all three major campaigns) It was infact Joe Trippi of Edwards campaign that jumped down Mark Penn's throat. David Axelrod merely accepted that it didn't come from Hillary but her condoning of negative campaigning as "the fun part" led to it.
The Next portion of the column is dedicated to "The Bradley Effect" to account for why Obama didn't win New Hampshire. Many of the Polling and Data people were scratching their heads trying to figure out why Obama who had been Polling so well in New Hampshire lost. Well Yes, one of the things to look at is the Bradley Effect. That doesn't mean that's the reason why but do we leave it out of the discussion, no. The second thing to look at is the effect of Clinton's tears on the electorate. The writer failed to mention that those were getting about equal play as a reason why the voters broke for her.
I'll concede that Jesse Jackson Jr did a Racially tinged hatchet job on Sen. Clinton. It was out right nasty. I watched it live and cringed a little.
Going through this, Yes, there was race played on both sides of the isle. Just like the Clinton's later played the sex card. But this article is pretty one sided in it's point of view and clearly the writer is a fierce clinton supporter.
June 8, 2008 4:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton and Obama's policy positions are nearly identical. Clinton supporters who don't vote for Obama are doing it because they don't like the guy much as a person. That means this is personal. Good luck convincing those people on the issues to Support BHO because their dislike for Obama doesn't have much of anything to do with the issues. In there minds it's a fact that he's an inadequate, inexperienced, black sexist/man who's not good enough to lick Hillary's boots much less be endorsed by her. They repudiate the endorsement like they repudiate the man. Policy Positions, party loyalty, advancing progressive causes-those all fall under the catagory of business- cold, logical unmoving, it is what is. Clinton Fans reasons for not supporting BHO are mostly passionate but illogical- never business, all personal. Good luck with that one guys.
June 8, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a Democrat. Of course, democrats want democrats in the White House. Although, I am having a terrible time with this. I'm a 50 year old woman who is well educated. In my mind, Hillary is the only candidate for President. It’s not about winning or losing…it’s bigger than that. Thinking I could just "switch over", I went on the Obama website today and read some of the blogs listed under “Thank you Hillary” and I got sick to my stomach. They are welcoming Hillary supporters and tearing her down at the same time. I realized Hillary and her campaign spoiled us. We received emails on a everyday basis. Uplifting, considerate, and keeping us in the know. At my age I realized today there is no way I can become a part of the Obama team. It’s impossible. It’s like moving into someone elses home that you don’t know. Only a Hillary fan will understand this. Since my vote counted for 1/2 in the primary, I’m afraid it will count for zero in the election.
June 8, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
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