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Why the Florida Democratic Primary Votes Should Count: An Analysis by an Obama Supporter
While reading Hillary Clinton's increasingly outrageous arguments that the Florida and Michigan primary votes should count (e.g., the Zimbabwe analogy), I decided that rather than just getting angry it might be useful to try to take an objective look that isn't simply based on candidate preference or Democratic Party rules. Did the Democratic voters in these two states make their preferences known in the primaries? Of course, for Michigan the question sounds completely ridiculous because Clinton was the only major candidate on the ballot (Kucinich, Dodd, and Gavel were also listed). However, voters were also able to choose "uncommitted", which 40% of them did, and there was an exit poll that showed 46% for Clinton, 35% for Obama, and 12% for Edwards.
So, I thought that the best starting point for assessing the primaries was to look at the turnouts. What I was expecting to find was that the turnouts for both primaries were extremely low, well below those for the other primaries. In that case, Clinton's argument -- that the voters in some sense would be disenfranchised by not counting the results -- would clearly have no basis.
This is exactly what I found for Michigan. Only 594 thousand voters participated, compared to the 2.5 million who voted for Kerry in the 2004 presidential election, i.e. a turnout rate of 24% (I recognize this isn't the usual way to calculate a turnout, but for the question at hand it doesn't matter). This was well below the average of 61% (through Feb. 19th; the turnout rates actually became even higher after that date) and was by far the lowest in any state (the next lowest was 40% in NM). The NH primary a week earlier had a turnout that was 84% of the 2004 Kerry vote, and the SC primary immediately following Michigan had a turnout rate that was 80%. In conclusion, there is no reasonable basis for counting the Michigan primary votes, even if one were to somehow use the exit poll results. The Democratic voters of Michigan were indeed disenfranchised, but this was due to the decisions of their state party and the DNC on the primary date, and cannot be remedied by validating the primary votes.
The story for Florida is quite different. Here all of the candidates were on the ballot, but (for the most part) didn't campaign within the state. The voters actually turned out in fairly high numbers in this case: 1.75 million, compared to 3.6 million who voted for Kerry in the 2004 presidential election (49%). This is lower than the average of 61%, but within a standard deviation (16%), and higher than the turnout rates in NM, CT, NY, LA, and DE (40%, 41%, 43%, 47%, and 48%. respectively). It is also much higher than the turnout in the 2004 Florida primary (752 thousand), although that primary was fairly late (March 9th, just at the time that Kerry accumulated the necessary number of delegates).
One could argue that the Florida turnout would have been much higher if the DNC hadn't announced that they wouldn't seat the FL delegates at the convention. In favor of this argument is the observation that the 49% Democratic turnout rate was matched almost exactly by the Republican turnout (1.95 million, or 49% of the vote for Bush in the 2004 presidential election), whereas the Democratic turnout overall was much higher than that of the Republicans. However, the party differences were fairly small in a couple of cases (NH and AZ), and there is no way to really know how the DNC decision affected turnout, nor is there any reliable way to determine whether a larger turnout would have significantly affected the outcome (or, for that matter, what was the effect of the absence of in-state campaigning).
In light of these considerations, it is fair and reasonable to count the Florida primary votes. It is also politically wise, in terms of promoting a Democratic (presumably Obama) victory in November. After watching "Recount" on HBO last Saturday and seeing in graphic detail how the Democratic voters in FL were disenfranchised in 2000, largely due to missteps of the Dems on the national level, I think it is especially important to make sure that the votes of the Florida Democrats count now. How many times can we expect them to get excited and go out to vote when their votes don't count?
Inclusion of the Florida votes would have no appreciable effect on the outcome, as Clinton would gain only 38 delegates more than Obama, much less than the present difference of ~158 in pledged delegates (further enhanced by ~32 in superdelegates). If the Edwards delegates go to Obama (as might be expected since Edwards now supports Obama), then Clinton gains only 25 delegates. Even if one chooses to emphasize the popular vote, as Clinton now disingenuously does, it doesn't close the gap -- Obama would still lead by ~274 thousand (vs. ~569 thousand without FL).
As stated at the outset, the preceding analysis did not take Democratic Party rules into account. Is the violation of these rules by the Florida Democratic Party sufficient cause to discount the primary vote in that state? Some may feel that the DNC must hold the line on this -- if Florida is allowed to break the rules and move up their primary date, then this might encourage other states to do so. Many would argue that it is already a problem that the campaign starts so early, and that the problem would be intensified if the primary season shifted even earlier. It could also be argued that future candidates would feel that they had to campaign in rule-breaking states if the votes might ultimately be counted, and that this would add further problems to the process.
These arguments may have merit, but should be left for another day. A relatively easy compromise solution for the case at hand, Florida, is for the DNC to agree to count the primary votes if the Florida Democratic Party agrees to push back its future primaries to super-Tuesday (or later). After this election, serious thought should be given to revamping the entire system, which gives Iowa and New Hampshire an unfairly prominent role and, in most primary seasons, leaves Democrats in later-voting states no real voice.
For now, the overriding consideration should be the November election. If the Florida Democratic primary votes are discounted, it seems likely that Democratic voter turnout will not be high enough to avert a McCain victory there. Gaining this state might be sufficient for McCain to win the national election, which would be disastrous. This is a much more important issue than reining in the states that try to move up their primary dates.









Comments (12)
Small question, what about the voters who stayed away in fl. because they were told it wouldn't count?
May 27, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Second question: if there is amnesty for FL and/or MI, how can the Democratic party hope to control the primary calendar in 2012? What threat will the party be able to use to keep states in line?
States will start leapfrogging to earlier and earlier dates to be among the first to vote. We may end up with primaries next year for the 2012 election!
May 27, 2008 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once again, disenfranchising Mi and Fl will not solve the problem of the DNC losing control of the primary calendar. This is not a new problem this year. It has been a problem for years that the DNC has been unwilling to deal with. Sooner or later it was bound to explode in their faces as long as they kept ignoring it.
There were not 2 states the broke the rules this year. There were 5. The problem has always been NH and Iowa and the DNC being unwilling to deal with them. The rules call for all 5 states to lose all their super delegates and have their pledged delegate total cut in half. Instead the DNC gave NH, Iowa and SC no punishment and removed all of the delegates of FL and MI.
Whether FL and MI are seated or not will not change the basic dynamics of this issue. NH and Iowa's insistence in being first every year and the anger that engenders among the other states, especially MI. In my opinion by not enforcing the rules evenly and fairly against all the states that violated the rules the DNC has made this problem worse. And that will not change whether Fl and MI is seated or not.
May 27, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you are mixing up three different issues? Correct me if I am wrong.
1) Many (including me) agree that it is wrong for the same two states to lead off every primary season. But if the DNC cannot enforce a primary schedule, it will be impossible to rectify the situation - every primary season will be a free-for-all.
2) I am almost (almost) certain that FL and MI violated the rules in a way that set them apart from NH, Iowa and SC, so that sanctioning only FL and MI is defensible. I need a fact check on this.
3) A sanction of 1/2 vote per delegate is not a complete disenfranchisement, but partial, yes. Unclear how much this will hurt the party in November, but again, it is IMHO the right thing to do unless we want total uncontrollable chaos in the primary calendar in 2012.
May 27, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm willing to accept your defining the issue this way.
1. I agree, the DNC must enforce a primary schedule. My point is that the DNC did not enforce a primary schedule this year. They enabled NH and Iowa as they have so often in the past allowing them to break the rules and giving them the preferential status that has been the root of the problem all these years.
2. Yes they were different. NH and Iowa moved the date of their primary in blatant disregard of the rules. While in FL a fairly convincing case can be made that the republican dominated legislature forced the move on the democrats. While there were a few Fl democrats that facilitated the date change most of the democrats worked hard to stop the republicans from changing the date. The rules say that if the democrats make a good faith effort to stop a date change there would be no punishment.
I'm less clear about the detail of the process that went on in MI and SC when they changed the date so I can't really address that. But I do know that Mi was involved in extensive discussions with the DNC and reluctantly accepted the calendar as it was originally set, with Nevada going second. It was felt that NH and Iowa were finally getting a message from the DNC that it would no longer tolerate them always going first. MI was promised that they would eventually have their turn as first in the nation. Mi only moved their date after NH and Iowa moved up their's
3. What to do now is really a separate issue. The DNC has again effed things up so badly that there is no good solution to the problem they created. If the DNC had immediately sanctioned NH the other 4 states might not have changed their dates. But how to solve it now is an extremely charged partisan issue and I'm happy to discuss it without that partisanship so I'd rather not offer what I believe would be the best solution.
May 27, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lovely analysis, right on, and thanks for a thoughtful (as opposed to ranting emotional) post! Too unusual around here anymore...
May 28, 2008 7:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm... am tempted to say that Michigan and Florida shouldn't count because, as jsfox points out, some people certainly stayed home because they were told the primaries there were beauty contests that didn't count.
But, one big problem: huge turnout in both states. Seems like the voters in both assumed that the party would ultimately respect their wishes.
That Obama's name is off Michigan isn't a good argument for disqualifying the state. No way Michigan's voters were so misinformed as to not know about Obama's candidacy. Indeed, if Obama got all the uncommitted votes and delegates (which seems fair in my opinion) he gets an advantage as he surely would have split some of those votes with Edwards under any other circumstances.
So, give Obama the uncommitted vote in Michigan. Hillary gets the win but Obama gets an advantage.
As for control over the primaru calender... well... the party's done a terrible job of that. Somebody had to challenge the New Hamphire/Idaho lock sooner or later.
May 27, 2008 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whoops. Idaho/Iowa... same flyover states.
Kidding.
May 27, 2008 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
About florida.
I live there and did vote in the primary, the wife and I went back and forth over if we should bother because we both knew that our votes did not count. In florida that day there was also a ballot issue that would cut property tax rates a large amount, that should be considered when factoring in the turnout.
Bottom line is most informed people knoew this vote for the primary did not count, many people I know to be politically active stayed home because it was accepted fact this primary would not count, the results are not to be relied upon. There was not motivation to vote unless you owned a home, and even then, the ballot initiative was a lock.
May 28, 2008 2:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Damn, it's nice to hear from folks who actually live in-state.
Maybe I've just missed it, not paid close enough attention, but until now, I don't think I've seen much in the way of actual voters from MI or FL raising their voices in protest. If there really was some kind of awful travesty in the works, I'm thinking we'd be hearing more from MI and FL voters themselves. But all I've heard, until this comment, is crickets.
May 28, 2008 5:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't replied to the first 10 comments because they all addressed a defective version of my post that only contained the first paragraph out of the ten that I wrote. This problem has now kindly been remedied by TPM. I think that the missing parts of my post answered many of the points raised in the comments. Please read the full post.
May 28, 2008 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
NewsFlash...
Michigan tried to pull the same thing in 2004. Terry McCauliffe, Clinton's top adviser, who was DNC Chair at the time, threatened to strip them if they tried it again. NOW he is arguing for a conflicting position. How typical of the Clinton campaign and supporters who speak out of both sides of their mouths. Therefore, I believe that MI should not be seated at all.
As far as FL, the OP makes a good argument for seating them (albeit at 50% per the DNC rules). However, it will end up being a wash in the delegate count because Clinton received just under 50% of the vote; Edwards and Obama received the other 50%. Since the overwhelming majority of Edwards' delegates have pledged to Obama, the two candidates will essentially end up with a 50/50 delegate split.
However, in principle, I am against seating the delegations at all unless there is a statement made that the popular votes don't count. Even though it will not help her in the delegate count, Clinton is claiming the lead in the popular vote that excludes primary states and gives ZERO votes to Obama in Michigan. This is sssoooo illegitimate that when she or her surrogatees try this talk, they should be laughed off the stage. I cannot believe that folks believe that enfranchising voters in 2 rogue states and disenfranchising voters in 4 (caucus) states and all the other primary states who complied with the rules is fair or right or legitimate.
May 28, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
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