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Why On Earth Would You Trust An Economist?

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Let's be honest and say out loud what we've all known for years. Economists are worthless know nothing shitheads. Whew. That felt good.

What makes someone who studied a particular subject in higher education and made a career of it think they have anything valid to contribute to a national debate on the subject? Where do they get the nerve?

I mean it's not like when I'm sick I automatically turn to someone that studied medicine and passed some tests to prove how much they know. That would be too obvious.

If I were in some sort of legal jam, would I turn to some dipshit who was so stupid he was stuck in school for three years after he should have finished college? Fuck no. 

What's an archetect? Some loser with a bunch of pencils and T-square. Draw your fruity pictures for someone else, nerd. Want a building? Stack some rocks, and make each level smaller than the one below it. Job done. Six thousand years from now, people will be talking about how awesome you were and you'll appear as a CGI character in summer blockbusters.

The point is, whenever someone tries to confront you with facts or so called "expert" opinion, stop and examine the situation. Is this person sipping a latte? Do their arguments make you feel uncomfortable? (Note, they may use words like "logical") Do they use correct grammar? (Talking faggy) If they answer to any of the above is "Yes" you are probably faced with an elitist. Back away slowly. Don't make eye contact. Run to the nearest bar and consume boilermakers until you feel normal again. If the boilermakers alone don't work, strike up a chat with someone about how the dynosaurs didn't make it onto Noah's ark and the devil put their bones in the rocks to confuse us. You should feel that warm cloudy fuzz return to your brain soon enough.


Comments (37)

Hey, it's spelled architect, bucko. And we use CAD these days. Or napkins. Other than that, great post. :-)

bucko doesn't get by word speller, bucko !


geez....who can spell these days?


i just type till the red goes away..

Compared to the increase in gasoline prices in the United States, the price of gasoline has not been going up at the same rate in several other places in the world. Why? Because the value of the U.S. dollar has been dropping like a rock. In Europe, with the value of the euro rising rapidly against the dollar, gasoline prices at the pump have not increased at the sort of dramatic rate seen in the U.S. And in Brazil, to cite another example, where the value of the dollar has dropped to just over 40% of its value 5 or 5 years ago, the price of gasoline has increased only at the rate of ordinary inflation. A three month hiatus on the 18 cents a gallon tax will make no dent in the effects of these facts. When the dollar is in the tank, the price of oil at the pump jumps way way way up. Why aren't the candidates suggesting something to do about this?

Are you replying to me, or just cutting to the front of the line?

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I think you forgot to mention that economists are really the 'beautiful people' who ride their attractiveness to success instead of studying and working hard. Other than that omission - great post.

I thought that description was for Marketing Specialists. You know, if you can't make it, sell it. If you can sell it, sell yourself!

You don't even need to be an economist to understand why this won't lower gas taxes. I took, literally, econ 101 and we went over this supply/demand stuff.

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This will lower gas taxes - it will lower gas taxes by .184 cents per gallon.

wow--it'll lower gas prices by almost a fifth of a cent per gallon. Count me on board! I mean, .184 cents a gallon is like 20 cents per fill up on my 12 gallon tank. If I do that once a week through the summer, I'll have saved almost three dollars at least.

I think you mean .184 dollars per gallon.

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Listen, all it takes is one foolish "expert" PDB "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the US" to know these pencil pushing geeks don't know their heads from their, er, toes. Jezz, W knew the real test of leadership is knowing when to ignore the experts, and make a testicular decision based on what your gut tells ya'll. That, my friends, is the American way.

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Of course, economists are only human. And Hillary did go to Wellesley and then Yale Law. And she does seem to know quite a lot.

Oh, and Obama backed similar legislation in Illinois some time ago and it turned out quite well. Maybe we should ask historians instead of economists.

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Actually, Brand. It did not turn out so well. The oil companies just raised their prices. Obama spoke on the matter on Meet The Press and called it a mistake.

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Several Comments:

Economists are not universally opposed to the gas tax hike. I hang out with them and talked to two of them yesterday. As a stimulus plan, putting $5-$10 back in everyone's pocket when they buy gas would be much more effective than the tax rebate [because the marginal propensity to consume (save) is higher (lower) for the gas relief].

However, the overwhelming majority of economists are against the idea.

However, that same overwhelming majority are against raising the minimum wage. And the 2G Keynesian economists (pre-Volcker or 3G) were wrong, not just wrong, but backwards wrong on how to run the economy for 50 years.

The great worldwide depression of the 30s was caused by 1G classical economists exactly reverse-what-was-needed response to tariff increases and going off the gold standard.

Interesting point about stimulus, but it's worth pointing out that stimulus is not how Clinton's selling the gas tax. She's proposing it as a short-term relief measure for individual families. So the challenge is to find an economist who thinks a given family is going to be better off spending five bucks or saving a few hundred. Possibly a taller order.

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To put $10 "back in someone's pocket" when they buy gas, at a tax savings of 18 cents per gallon, they'd have to buy 55 gallons at a time. About $200 dollars per fill-up.

Most people can fill their tanks with 10 or 15 gallons. So maybe they'd save $2 when they fill up. Big whoop.

And then oil companies jack the price to match. Bigger whoop.

And then the tax is reinstated in three months. Biggest whoop.

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Why would the oil companies raise their prices by two dollars? That doesn't make any sense.

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Um, profit incentive for one (gas is a classic example inelastic demand, increasing price doesnt decrease demand enough to achieve incremental revenues with no incremental cost, that whole thing). Your drive by posting calls out people for not being "smart," yet this post, like others you post here, indicates incredible ignorance of the subject and fails to appreciate the modestness required of those with a loose grasp of the facts should have in making claims of idiocy. Sources would help your legitimacy. Would you provide sources for this being patently nonsense? Would you consider sitting down with Krugman and smartening him up about this whole thing, please? Save us alot of time...

Thank you. Price inelasticity of demand. Prices will be increased to whatever the market will yield. That's why. If you'll pay $3.89/gallon this week, you will pay it next week.

And then the tax is reinstated in three months. Biggest whoop.

...which would then be ADDED on to the raised price tacked on by the oil companies...that would be in September...two months before the election.

BRILLIANT!

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One way to save americans money at the pump would be to pressure George Bush to open up the strategic reserve, increasing supply. The tax will not decrease demand. If anything, incentives to use less gas are what we need. I have a disgusting commute and the price at the pump is killing me, but I also know that I shouldn't be driving this much period. It's against my economic interests, but it's also bad for the environment which goes against many other interests but also economic.

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I read this over at Driftglass yesterday, and I'm gonna blatantly teal it:

"It's the economy, stupid!"- Bill Clinton 1992

" The economists are stupid!"- HRC and campaign surrogates 2008.

And I'll add:

"First let's kill all the economists, stupid!"

Technically, I believe that "It's the economy, stupid." is from Skeletor, aka James Carville.

Economist = Elitist Bastards !

The reason why the founders wanted a Republic and not a Democracy (the US isn't a Democracy) is that they knew full well that 1/2 the population had below average intelligence.

Which certainly explains some of the posting on TPM.

Yes, indeedy; but with respect to the intelligence of the members of the set founders half of that set had, as well, "below average intelligence."

Which may explain why we wound up with a republic leading straight to our Civil War.

Really? Which 1/2? The fact is that the sample size was too small to be compared to the general populace. But I daresay that all of them were above average compared to the general populace.

ARGH!

NEVER TRUST AN ELITE!

TRUST THE POOFY SHEET!

A PIRATE'S GARB, A SAILOR BE...

IT'S TIME TO RIDE THE CHELLY SEA!

TAKE A WENCH, TAKE A WANKER,

HAND OVER YER OIL, THE WHOLE DARNED TANKER!

ACQUIRE! MERGE! MARAUD! DILTUTE! DILUTE!

ARGH!

It's not complicated. People are paying $3.75 per gallon for gas now. If the govt relieves gas companies of having to pay $0.18 per gallon, the Clinton-McCain story goes, they'll lower the price by down to $3.57. But the gas companies own most of the gas stations. Since they know that people will pay $3.75 for gas -- we need it -- there's no reason to expect that the companies would do anything other than keep the price at $3.75, and pocket the 18 cents. Then, we the tax is reinstated in September, they'll raise the price by at least $0.18. This is what happened in Illinois, and in other places that tried it.

Voters -- including non-economist non-elitists -- can see that this is what's going to happen. Obama has also helped explain the folly of this gimmick. The gas-tax flimflam obviously didn't help Clinton in NC. And who knows -- it may not have pulled out a victory for her in Indiana, either ...

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First of all, the oil companies do not own most of the gas stations, 95% of gas stations in this country are independently owned and operated. Secondly, the .184 cents is a consumer tax, YOU pay the tax, not the gasoline station, not the oil companies and not the distributors. Gas station owners cannot "just pocket the 18 cents" because it is a tax on the gallon of gasoline. The price of that gallon of gas will still be market driven. The .184 cents per gallon relief is just that - relief for the consumer of one tax burden. The consumer is being relieved of the .184 cents, not the oil companies. The .184 cents is separate from the price per gallon. The oil companies are not getting 3.75 per gallon of gas and the retailer is not getting 3.75 per gallon of gas. If in the state of Ohio the retailer is selling the gas at 3.75 per gallon the taxes both federal and state are .40.8 cents per gallon, that makes a gallon of gas in Ohio 334.60, not 3.75. If the profit margin is around .6 cents for the retailer which is what they claim, he's probably paying around 3.00 to 3.25 (and the 3.25 is for a low end retailer with low volume sales) for that gallon of gas to the distributor or perhaps less depending on his volume/contract sale price from the distributor.

Will the price of gas per gallon go up? Yes, probably, although in my area the price went from 3.54 per gallon to 3.48 in a week, but the .184 cents sales tax will remain the same because it is a fixed tax collected by the retailer. If congress relieves the consumer of that particular tax burden, the retailer canno continue to collect .184 cents per gallon, the tax per gallon must be reduced by the .184 cents no matter how high or low the price per gallon is.

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While you may be factually correct, you really don't have a firm grasp on reality - do you?
Anyone who believes that the price of gas won't rise by the amount of the tax (at least) obviously hasn't been paying attention for the last 35 years or so!

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This is like drilling through concrete with a butter knife - even if the price of gas goes up .184 cents per gallon, the pumps will reflect a drop of .184 cents per gallon because the tax will no longer be paid by the consumer. If the price per gallon goes up to 10.00 per gallon, the price at the pump will reflect a drop of .184 cents per gallon. The price per gallon will remain market driven, the tax relief is not a "price control" on a gallon of gasoline, it is not meant to be a price control on a gallon of gasoline, companies cannot continue to charge consumers a tax that has been rescinded and keep that money for themselves. Just as the social security tax for many people stops at a certain income level, the employer cannot continue to charge the employee the social security tax and keep it for himself. Gasoline stocks are up 18.0 from this time last year, there is no shortage of gasoline. Supply is at the highest of the five year range, Americans are driving less, they're replacing gasoline usage with ethanol and there has been an increase in gasoline imports. This surplus has lowered the wholesale price of gasoline.

So supply/demand isn't an issue in this sudden rise in gasoline retail prices for this cycle, something else is, and my guess is the wild speculation on the price of crude oil per barrel and while I realize there are many other factors involved, supply/demand is a facile explanation for what is going on at this time.

Now I have been called a liar and a few other names and told I don't have a grasp on reality, but it seems to me that some of you are the people without a grasp on reality. There is no shortage of gasoline supplies despite what you accept as common wisdom - retail gasoline prices are up .63 cents from last year, and the supply of gasoline is higher than it was last year. So while you may be willing to accept any kind of bullshit propaganda you're being fed by the oil companies and the press who don't bother to actually do any research and whistle the happy tune of supply/demand accounting for these artificially high prices, I prefer to look at the real numbers to find out what's going on. People bitch and gripe about the predatory oil companies and they don't even bother to call them on the bullshit they feed you in the press - supply is low and demand is high, when the numbers tell us that is completely opposite to what you've been told.

The tax holiday isn't going to lower the price of gasoline because it isn't intended to lower the price of gasoline, it is intended to give the consumer immediate relief at the pumps for now. Whether you think that is a good idea or not is another story.

Why do you assume that the per gallon cost paid by consumers will drop by 18.4 cents? Do you not believe in the principles of supply and demand?

Awesome. Also, points for the Idiocracy allusion.

very hillarious.

"Brawndo's got what plants crave."

"Yeah, but why?"

"Because Brawndo's got electrolytes."

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You don't have to be an economist to know that Hillary's Tax Holiday will not lower prices because she will now drop it like a hot potato. It was never intended to lower gas price' it was intended to raise her vote count in Indiana and North Carolina. Since it did not, she will pay it very little lip service from today forward.

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