Reader Posts
« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »
Why Hillary Should Be Vice President
This is not a popular opinion with Obama supporters, but I would like to throw my hat in the ring anyhow. I believe Hillary Clinton would make an excellent Vice President. She has run a campaign that has finished in a close second place. She has delegate clout, a dedicated voter base, and her legislative skills and mindset would make her an ideal Senate kingpin. I compare her potential as Vice President to Lyndon Johnson serving under the youth and idealism of John F. Kennedy. Johnson proved to be an able legislator and negotiator and could be counted on to push through bills and craft shrewd compromises within the Democratic Party and across the aisle. I believe Hillary would be just as able a leader.







Comments (23)
The formatting option for TPM redacted my blog again. Here it is, in its entirety:
This is not a popular opinion with Obama supporters, but I would like to throw my hat in the ring anyhow. I believe Hillary Clinton would make an excellent Vice President. She has run a campaign that has finished in a close second place. She has delegate clout, a dedicated voter base, and her legislative skills and mindset would make her an ideal Senate kingpin. I compare her potential as Vice President to Lyndon Johnson serving under the youth and idealism of John F. Kennedy. Johnson proved to be an able legislator and negotiator and could be counted on to push through bills and craft shrewd compromises within the Democratic Party and across the aisle. I believe Hillary would be just as able a leader.
I can understand the hard feelings engendered by this campaign. I have been on the sensitive and defensive side. I was especially outraged when Hillary Clinton made the claim that it was LBJ who ultimately deserved the credit for signing civil rights legislation because of his leadership. I believe strongly that many men and women sacrificed their time and in many cases their freedom and lives to send LBJ the message that his pen was vital to heal the torn fabric of our moral heritage. Martin Luther King went to jail, suffered beatings and endured a decade of FBI counterintelligence operations and still went on to galvanize the civil rights movement. Yes, LBJ ultimately signed the legislation and pushed it home, but this never could have taken place without the sacrifice and fortitude of the grassroots movement for equality. Hillary may not have intended to minimize this sacrifice, and did her best to clarify her position in the future, but that one statement did more to alienate the youth and black vote than every other statement and act combined. She appeared to minimize the legacy of not only Dr. King, but W.E.B. Dubois, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks, and the legions that stood behind them to finally make a government built on inalienable rights to recognize minorities once and for all.
Hillary has also gone on to craft a divisive campaign of liberal elites versus small town values that stinks of Reagan and Nixon. While she does have a point that this divide exists within the greater Democratic Party, she did no service to this country by driving a prejudicial wedge between blocs of voters who will ultimately be served by anyone but McCain in 2008. However, she has driven this wedge, and has tied herself to it for better or worse. That is why, ultimately, the best and most pragmatic option for this election and the future of the progressive movement is for Obama to select Hillary Clinton as the Vice President.
Hillary and Obama have a similar platform that is ultimately reflective of the Democratic party. Obama has presumptively won the nomination, but not without permanent symbolic problems that the McCain campaign can exploit to their advantage. The unseated Florida and Michigan delegates, for example. Also, McCain can exploit the “hardworking white American” voter divide and pull more than his fair share from Obama by simply painting himself (at media expense) as the straight talking maverick.
History is full of pragmatism and compromise. I for one can not abide Hillary Clinton’s hawkish foreign policy, but she has stood up for ending the Iraq occupation, and as Vice President I expect her to engage that solution. That leaves one major problem: Bill Clinton. I would recommend that a position be found for Bill Clinton that suits his current loose canon elder statesman persona: Secretary General of the United Nations, or ambassador to the United Nations. That puts him in the ideal busy role on the world stage that would keep him from becoming the bull in the china shop.
I am not entirely pleased with my argument. I want a clean break from the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton wheel of fortune… but I don’t think it is going to be as simple as cutting the cord. Obama’s candidacy and Presidency is going to be built on unity and compromise. He cannot simply put up a firewall between his campaign and his second place rival. Nor can Hillary continue to slash and burn every demographic until she is left with the Reagan Democrats that will defect to McCain. Further, Hillary does have a credible argument, based on image, of having the necessary experience and judgment necessary for the number two slot. Yes, she has disparaged Obama, but if she is truly behind party unification, several heartfelt apologies and stirring defenses of not just Obama but the entire Democratic Party will go a long way to heal the bitter divisions and unite us against the GOP-media complex.
I want to hear counter arguments, because I am still not easy with this choice. I fear Bill Clinton’s alpha male syndrome and I further fear the nasty War Room apostles such as James Carville who will not simply fade away. However, I see the immediate goal of pragmatic unity, this uneasy partnership, as ideal for all of us to come together and defeat the greater evil of the neoconservative ideology.
May 12, 2008 5:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually Bill Clinton wasn't such a public persona until this campaign kicked into gear - I don't know why people are so worried about him. He mostly likes going off and giving speeches and making a few tens of millions of dollars giving advice and clout, tied in with playing golf of course.
You folks worry too much.
And no, he wouldn't be good at the UN - kind of odd perhaps for a Hillary supporter to say, but I don't think Bill has the deft touch of old. Just let him go back to his consulting business and stop getting wound up.
May 12, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can email tpm at: help @ talkingpointsmemo.com and they should be able to correct your post.
May 12, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why put someone so many, justifiably, hate on the ticket.
May 12, 2008 8:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can she swallow her pride enough to say, "I'm not going to get the top spot, but I'd be happy to accept the vice presidential nomination if it was offered"? I doubt it, and that's the big hurdle. If she takes the fight more than a couple days past the last primaries, she's slamming the door on that option. No way she would be tapped if she can't show a trace of humility and bow out gracefully while she has a chance.
On the other hand, she'd be an excellent deterrent to assassination...
May 12, 2008 9:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have a few of counter points that I think you should consider.
1. Shouldn't VP selection be about the future? Shouldn't the Dems be looking for the 2016 candidate in selecting the next VP? HRC will turn 69 in 2016.
2. No matter what Rush says, the repugs still salivate at the thought of having HRC on the ballot to really motivate the conservative base. They would love to turn out to vote against letting Bill Clinton back into the White House in any capacity.
3. Does Obama really want a VP (and her husband) who casts such a large shadow? It will be hard enough for him to "find his voice" as President without having to shout down Hillary AND Bill.
You may be right about a "dream ticket" unifying the party, but there are other ways to bring the dems together that don't have nearly as much baggage.
May 12, 2008 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're absolutely right, and to that I would add:
4. She has worked too hard to damage him so badly that she'd either look like a raging hypocrite or he'd look weak if she were on a ticket with him. Could you imagine her trying to speak in defense of his policies when there is hours of video (from last week alone) saying the opposite?
It simply wouldn't work. If she had been a good Democrat, and had saved the "kitchen sink" for the general, then maybe VP would be an option. But, it just isn't possible now, and it's her own fault.
One more thing to consider - I think it's clear that she's already thinking ahead to 2012. Is it easier to start over as a nomination candidate after a failed nomination bid or failed VP bid? (And I say this assuming Obama will win in November, but I'm thinking she doesn't believe it's possible, just like she didn't think the nomination race would go past Super Tuesday).
Honestly, I don't think she *really* wants VP, she just wants to make him offer it to her so she can refuse and damage him further going into the general.
May 12, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
So many conspiracies, so little time.
May 12, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you ever contribute anything of value?
May 12, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do trolls ever?
May 12, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
1. Often, the VP choice is about the future. But many times, a VP slot is designed to heal a schism. Think Lincoln/Johnson... or other times to augment a weakness or exploit a weakness in the opposition... think Dukakis/Bentsen.
2. The GOP can motivate some of their base at the thought of Clinton being a heartbeat from the Presidency, but the base is much more motivated by RED MEAT. That means wedge issues, good and evil, and bombs. We have more to worry about from Lameduck Bush's last few months to play Napoleon Jr. than Clinton on the ticket.
3. I don't have an answer for. Really.
I don't have that much emotionally invested in this argument. I put it out there more or less to hear some satisfying counters. Food for thought in these troubled times.
I do believe on a pragmatic level, getting Hillary to agree to the VP slot and eating a helping of crow would mollify the dissenting voices. If Obama can find a VP that can bring more to the table and make Hillary irrelevant, then I will celebrate. I honestly don't want Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton and then 20 years from now have George P. Bush versus Chelsea Clinton. I would rather my children and my middle-aged sanity be spared the spectacle of warring royal families. So perhaps you are right and I am being too much of a concern troll for my own good.
May 12, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understand the concern and have concerns of my own when it comes to the election this November.
I just think that the whole concept of an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket was created by the democratic establishment to allow the
6o-something pundits that are in control of the party now to try to keep their seat at the table.
The party chairs and consultants certainly don't want to see their positions turned over to the new crop of pundits that Obama's crew would bring to power.
Nobody's ever heard of half the people he's got working on his campaign, but part of working on a successful campaign is the party positions that get filled after the candidate wins.
May 12, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
"She has delegate clout, a dedicated voter base, and her legislative skills and mindset would make her an ideal Senate kingpin. I compare her potential as Vice President to Lyndon Johnson serving under the youth and idealism of John F. Kennedy. Johnson proved to be an able legislator and negotiator and could be counted on to push through bills and craft shrewd compromises within the Democratic Party and across the aisle. I believe Hillary would be just as able a leader."
Here's a problem I've had with Hillary's campaign (and a number of her supporters) all along: If Hillary is such an incredibly skillful actor in the Senate, don't we NEED her in the Senate? I won't even make the argument that we should've seen a great deal more work accomplished on all of her many wonderful initiatives. And I've read the puff pieces about her coming in and shocking everyone by being humble and low-key and going to prayer breakfasts and holding hands with the Republicans. That's great and all, but I don't understand why we should take someone for whom Republicans are suddenly so fond, and put them in the OEOB where they'll have the same skills but no vote and no legislative role. I don't see anything stopping her from being able to "push through bills and craft shrewd compromises within the Democratic Party and across the aisle" while continuing to serve in the Senate. Contrary to the false-feminist assertion, being a sitting U.S. Senator is not something that Hillary should be ashamed of simply because she isn't being nominated by her party...
May 12, 2008 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is no Clinton in Change. Having Hillary on the bill would be betraying everything that Senator Obama has been campaigning on.
If LBJ had taken a Hagee-like strategy against JFK and Ladybird was a megalomaniac ex-president anxious to steal the steering wheel, he would never have been VP. Bill and Hillary Clinton in the VP's office would try to take over where Dick Cheney left off and try to be puppet masters. It ain't gonna happen and Obama will still win.
She's still attacking, so those reports that she really doesn't want the job must be true.
For fun, I encourage everybody to take a look at the most recent Hillary Deathwatch on Slate.com today. It's outstanding graphics make it worth a visit. I love the sinking Hillary and especially enjoy the new shark.
http://www.slate.com/id/2190987/
Do you think Hillary will be invoking SNL anymore in her campaign:
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=250052
May 12, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
As others pointed out on this topic yesterday, LBJ brought Texas to the ticket - Clinton brings no such advantage. Her pluses can be gained from other VP candidates without her negatives. I agree that she would be disastrous for the ticket. Her campaign tactics have now added many Democrats to the many Republicans and Independents who detest and mistrust her.
Not only do Democrats want to see Clinton out of the race, they want badly to see the last of Penn/Wolfson/McAulliffe. Obama will not burden his campaign with the worst of the past.
Enough of her insiders have floated the idea, it's clear that Clinton does want to be VP. WHY does she want the VP slot so badly, when she could be more effective in the Senate?
May 12, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's his choice. Im sure he will take the pulse of his supporters. This supporter says HELL NO. That being said, I trust his judgement and no will probably disagree in the future.
May 12, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Know!
May 12, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it was just Hillary, I'd agree that she might be good. But it wouldn't be. It would be Hillary and Bill and Madeleine Albright and Terry McAuliffe and the rest of that filthy crew. And they would bring with them sabotage and division and rancor and it just wouldn't work. We need a clean break. No more dynastic rule. If Hillary divorced Bill, I'd agree. As long as Bill is part of the mix, I say no way.
May 12, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think your point about Bill is somewhat valid considering all those players....but I just think that Hillary is not far from Bill and them, so dont truly see the distinction....How may we have a clean break if she divorced or not? The spin that she uses makes it so difficult that when she talks I can't even listen to her anymore for fear she will exploit something that will upset me. Im serious! I turn the t.v. down. Im tired of letting her upset me, but the wounds just haven't healed yet. I normaly can put people on ignore when they talk, I just cant with her right now. So guess that's true resentment. Thats a huge bridge to repair for her. I know Im not alone in those feelings.
May 12, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not a popular opinion with independents or Republicans, more to the point.
May 12, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I recommended this post because I think it's a good one for discussion and because Zipper actually took time to lay out some opinions and thinking behind his post instead of just linking to another article without any meaningful insight.
That said, I would disagree. I think that there are a couple of reasons that Hillary shouldn't be on the ticket:
- she starts with over 40% disapproval ratings.
- she'd mobilize the right wingers to vote
- she'll be on every right wing fundraising appeal
- she hit Obama below the belt too many times, namely the 3Am ad was totally over the top.
The best case scenario might be if it were "leaked" that Hillary was offered the VP slot but declined - and all parties had no comment on the leak.
May 12, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like that leak, but just think that before she walks away, she will get one more dig at Obama, so dont think she would ever allow her ego to take something so rational. I hope Im wrong about that, God please prove me wrong!
May 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Zip, how's it hangin'? You know I love you but the election must be getting to you. You asked for an argument so....where do I start? I totally agree with you from the perspective of your historical references (especially Johnson), but times - they are a changin'.
O.K.
#1) Obama will need a food taster.
#2) There are so many Obama supporters who will never forgive him that the gain in demographics may actually be close to a wash.
#3) It is possible to pick a suitable Clinton surrogate who will actually deliver one of the states that are deemed neccessary. After all, she has some really impressive Democratic strongarms covering her back. (Strickland, Rendell, and the like).
#4) It is possible to find a female candidate who can deliver a state and be completely popular with the electorate (Sebelius, Napolitano).
#5) It is entirely possible that the Republicans really did have a dirtier campaign lined up for Hillary, since they were so anxious to run against her in the first place (we all know the arguments). Do we really want to open Obama up to all of the criticism they have for her as well as him?
#6) This combination might actually result in a Republican feeding frenzy.
If you really want to suggest someone who would shut up every middle-American, John McCain, and the entire Republican party, try Chuck Hagel. You might have a hard time getting him past the left-wing of the Democratic party. But every argument against Obama would be gone in one Veep.
Hope I gave you something else to think about.
May 13, 2008 5:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Post a Comment