Unfortunately, there is a suspicion that the Clintons are not entirely convinced that it wouldn't be in their best interest to undermine Obama. Her demonstrably false remarks about her having the only viable winning voting coalition fro the general is the latest example.

Maybe that just a a gambit in a tough negotiation...to get what I am not sure.

But, ask yourself this, if they had to which would they choose: (1) stopping the campaign, throwing their support to Obama who then goes on to win and serve two terms, ending forever, their Hillary's chance to be president, or (2)weakening Obama so he loses against McCain and then preparing for a Hillary in 2012 "I told you so" campaign.
I am not saying I know the answer, but the fact that it is not 100% clear that they are going with (1) is very very troubling.

Everyone wants to move on. She just keep sucking us back in.

I recommend for the title alone.

Give 'em some time. They'll mellow.

I agree. I've been referring people to this piece from the Onion, circa December, 2004:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/swift_boat_veterans_still_hounding

We can stop the attack now, and work on rebuilding the unity. It's over, despite what happens int he death throes.

Excellent thoughts & advise. I think what we're witnessing is Terminator syndrome. People (especially after her "nuke" talk) are really leary of getting emotionally attached to the inevitable outcome until she either concedes or he clinches. I am stoked but I'll feel way more comfortable & ready to pop the cork when it comes from the horses mouth.

As long as supporters on both side understand that it would be perplexing to many of us if either were not to support whomever the nominee happens to be! I understand the polls are the polls and that emotions are running high, but serioulsy whether you are an Obama supporter or a Clinton supporter to think that you would abandon the party if your choice is not the people's coice makes no sense to me whatsoever. Just look at the policies, forget about the candidates, when you do that it is hard to understand how you could vote for either Clinton or Barack and then look at John McCain's record and say, Yeah that suites me much better. It's fricken crazy and by any strecth of the imaginiation both Dem candidates records are far more in sync than McCain's record. Add his record with the fact that he has been running the George Bush campaign by pandering to the religious and neo-conservative right and his record would seem to be getting further and further away from either of the Dem's position. So I take the results with a grain of salt and chalk it up to emotion but if the case happens to be true than the country which happens to be my native one is as screwed up as all the lambasting I have railed against for the last 20 years. I believe this is the most important election in my life and perhaps the ost important since the 60's.

well said. This isn't "Clinton talking points memo". The Clinton's thrive on media attention. On creating division.

We're not obliged to cooperate.

The other part of this "retire Hillary's debt" thing would only matter if she dropped out. If she is running to the end of primary season then there is no quid pro quo and therefore Obama could not redirect his spending toward retiring her debt. She would have to drop out for this debt-retirement plan to become effective. And if she keeps running through end of May then the efficacy of doing so is null. I frankly doubt she will drop out till after June 3 so - no incentive.

When puppies have behavioral issues with biting, the best way to correct it is by gently but firmly redirecting their bites to an appropriate target.

Go gettim!

Good dog, good dog!

Amen.

Have you learned nothing from Jason, Freddy Krueger and Christopher Lee's Dracula flicks?

Seriously, her chances of winning are exhausted. Her opportunites for bringing the party, and the presumptive nominees chances in the general, are not. I'd just as soon not declare "Mission Accomplished" until the mission is actually accomplished.

Have you learned nothing from Jason, Freddy Krueger and Christopher Lee's Dracula flicks?

Seriously, her chances of winning are exhausted. Her opportunites for bringing the party, and the presumptive nominees chances in the general, are not. I'd just as soon not declare "Mission Accomplished" until the mission is actually accomplished.

Wait, why is anyone recommending this post? What did you learn here? You heard someone list a complaint with no alternative solution. Just because you agree with the complaint DOESN'T make this a good post. If you agree with the complaint, go make a better post, fill up the Cafe with intelligent posts on the topic, don't bitch because other people aren't saying things you want to hear or taking things the way you want them to take it.

The best that Hillary could hope for is a Cheney-style Vice Presidency.

Actually, she'll begin to realize that she'll be better off in the Senate, where she can stay and become even more powerful.

I dont agree with the title or the post.

I dont know, my feelings arent hurt from reading TPM today, or yesterday. I think their is still a good reason to keep eyes on Hillary, we just dont know what she is going to do. And while she is still in it, the Primary has not ended.

Its just a fact. It may be over in your mind, and yes, I think I'd agree with you, but again, thats in your mind, its not a fact.

So I'll keep paying attention, and hopefully nothing crazy happens, but if it does, I wont be caught with my pants down.

They still have to figure out MI and FLA and we still have to see if Hillary was successful in telling everyone it was Obama's fault instead of blaming the appropriate parties within FLA and MI local government.

Should read: It agitated me!

What the hell is wrong with you people?

It has always struck me that what is wrong with the people you are referring to, i.e., some especially loud and strident Obama "fans" on this site, is that they support an Obama that is a figment of their imagination. They don't listen to everything he says and haven't studied what he does, when he says or does things they wouldn't like, they block those things out and continue believing Obama is a mirror of their dreams.

Like this, Barack Obama, Jan. 31, 2008:

"I was friends with Hillary Clinton before we started this campaign, I will be friends with Hillary Clinton after this campaign is over."

I think he's basically into honesty and he meant that and it's still going to happen. Heck, he's friends with Joe Lieberman, too, can work with the guy. In the past, he done things like telling DKossacks to stop dissing his GOP friends in the Senate:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/30/102745/165

He says it over and over and over, that he's into working with people that others define as "enemies." More amd more I see evidence that as he proceeds into a general campaign, and, if he's lucky, becomes president, one of his most troublesome problems will be avid "supporters" who want him to treat certain people like clear enemies. They are bound to become disappointed eventually when he refuses to do the "payback" thing on one thing or another. I think those who "denounce and reject" Hillary Clinton as a "triangulator" are especially in for a rude surprise from Obama eventually, triangles seem to be one of his favorite things..

"It's not over until Clinton concedes, is drawn and quartered, gets a house dropped on her and is run over by a bus, and then I still want to poke her with a stick for a few more days."

HRC = Hillary Rasputin Clinton

Exactly. Not only don't we want to appear to be gloating, but we know full well that it ISN'T OVER. Not until Hillary Clinton congratulates Barack Obama on becoming the Democratic nominee and steps down.

Until then, she seems to be hoping for an October Surprise, and we're keeping out eyes peeled to make sure she doesn't invent one.

Call me cautiously optimistic. But no celebrating yet.

I've said for months that the vocal Obama supporters could cost us the November election. There's all their crowing about realigning the Party, hits on the Democratic establishment, unfounded accusations of racism, slams against formerly reliable voting blocs like feminists and the elderly, tearing down Democratic icons because they endorsed someone else, the list just goes on and on and for some reason, the vocal Obama supporters won't follow the lead of their candidate.

Yes, as I noted in a long-ago post, only a relatively few read political blogs, but some members of the media and punditry are in our ranks and each of us talk to at least ten people, who in turn talk to ten others and what may have started as simple post to a blogsite can often grow into conventional wisdom.

Why can't we all just get along?

You know what? When someone makes the kind of statements that Hillary has just made, which in essence relegate any Black candidate to second-class "we can't afford to nominate you" status no matter how much skill he or she has shown and how much popular support is evident, is am going to speak out about it. It's not because she is campaigning or not campaigning or never campaigning again. It's because what she said is that fundamentally wrong.

One of the biggest problems I have with the Obama supporters is how many have tried to ruin the legacy of President Clinton. Most were probably playing t-ball during the 8 years of peace and prosperity that marked the Clinton years.

Another problem I have is that mentioning Senator Obama's name with any other prominent black American in the same sentence is playing the race card.

Somehow in this election mentioning the demographics of the vote is somehow playing that card but that has been a topic for decades in the Democratic and Republican party. For example, anyone older than 24 knows that African-Americans typically vote Democratic. Anyone over 25 probably knows that Republicans can usually count on white males in the South. Thats not playing the race card, that is a fact. Mentioning that is not some heinous act of racial intolerance. It is called demographics. And to insinuate somehow that the Clintons are trying to divide this country on race is just disgusting. Anyone who has been involved in politics for more than 3 months knows better.

Now that this post has cooked a while I've gone back over the comments and I appreciate all the thoughtful criticism, both for and agin' what I said.

However, just to be clear, I was hoping to stress one point in my post - that it really would benefit Democrats now to get behind Obama and move forward with the campaign against McCain, and let the Clinton campaign sputter out on its own. I was disappointed to see TPM (the whole site, not just we loyal commenters) continuing to - in my estimation - flog a dead horse.

I stand by that - case in point, since my posting yesterday, there have been five new posts on the main TPM page. Three of them are directly related to Sen. Clinton. All of them are negative, and one recommends reading PEGGY NOONAN's critique of Clinton. Now, think about that. When one's desire to take down a political opponent leads to recommending Peggy Noonan columns, you are obsessed.

As some posters suggested - and rightly so, I will end not solely with critique but a suggestion - how about the good folks at TPM highlight something like this instead?

"McCain Pushed Land Swap That Benefits Backer"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/08/AR2008050803494.html?hpid=topnews

Thanks for the advice on using IE... I am pretty sure when I tried firefox it was small enough and still didn't work.

I think the shirt was orange. It may have been red. It definitely was not changing color.

Except . . . she's still there. Talk to me when she goes away.

Whoa, easy on the misdirected hostility, there. Obama supporters are ready to move on, but it's not easy when you have these Hillary-supporting backbiters all over your ankles. If she just let up on the race-baiting, you'd be amazed at how much more gracious and welcoming Obama-supporters would be.

well, a few more well considered thoughts on affirmative action. Certainly, I would not compare African-Americans to monkeys. Let's take for example the bar exam. THERE IS NO WAY A MONKEY COULD PASS THE BAR EXAM. End of discussion. Now let's look at the bar passage rate for Howard University's law school. It has averaged around 50% for years, some years dipping below 50%. Compare that to a third-tier state school like U of Idaho, where the bar passage rate is about 85%. Clearly, there is a pattern here. Let's examine the numbers:

Monkeys: 0%
AA elite: 50%
Potato farmers: 85%

Now there is no way for monkeys to improve their bar passage rate. However, for AAs, it's not genetis, IT'S INCENTIVES. Affirmative action and its accompaniaments are a system of perverse incentives actually. There is no incentive to excel or to perform well on tests that test problem-solving ability. There is every incentive to wear a FUBU sweatshirt and say dumb ignorant shit, pretending that it's cutting edge cultural theory, and to engage in empty pathetic exercises like exchanging Kwanza cards.

Solution: easy, just let AAs compete on an open playing field, like everyone else. I'm betting they could handle it.

Oh, for eff's sake. "I'm not going to let go until you do." "No, you first!" "No, you!" "You!" "No, you!!"

That's how it works in the playground. It's not how it works in the grown-up world. We should at least pretend that we're grown-ups.