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West Virginia Coon Hunters Association President Speaks out Against Obama
Those who are pointing to West Virginia as any kind of example as to why Obama is unelectable should take heart in reading the lovely sentiments of the West Virginia demographic Hillary is holding up as one of her last remaining cards. Sounds like Obama won't be getting the endorsement of the West Virginia Coon Hunters anytime soon:
Hand-lettered campaign signs promoting Democrats running for family-court judge and assessor cluster along Hardy County's winding roads. There are only a few signs for either Obama or Clinton, but in one yard, a placard with a red slash on it mocks, "Osama, Obama and Chelsea's Mama."Meanwhile, the bitter people don't agree that they are clinging to their guns, after all, they know what an American name sounds like:
The sign belongs to Eric Hardy, 38, a former Democrat who works at a woodworking plant. Now a die-hard Republican and president of the West Virginia Coon Hunters Assn., Hardy opposes any Democrat "who wants to go after my guns."
Obama "takes the cake," he said, "because of, you know, who he is." He suspects Obama for his "Muslim name," and comments by his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., rankle him. "He's just a mistake any way you look at him," Hardy said.
How could anyone possibly think that this is about racism or bigotry?
"I've got 50-some guns, and I wasn't crazy about Obama's talk about small towns," said Sam Vetter, 64, a farmer and lifelong Democrat who regrets voting for Bush in 2000. "Besides," he added, "Obama just doesn't sound right for an American president."
Fortunately, we can look with hope towards the children of West Virginia to help build a brighter future:
Neil Gillies, an Obama supporter who runs a local environmental nonprofit group, glumly recounted the gibes that his wife, a schoolteacher, hears regularly from her students. "They're convinced [Obama] is a Muslim, a terrorist, a guy who's coming to take away their guns," Gillies said. "It's just sad."
As goes West Virginia, so goes the nation:
"There's a lot of bigotry in the country, not just West Virginia," See said.
And this is Hillary's argument as to why she is more electable?
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Comments (78)
"How could anyone possibly think that this is about racism or bigotry?" is my comment, and it got swalloed by the blockquote.
Damn this no-edit TPM posting nonsense!
May 10, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe I should have given more prominence to the original article:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-race10-2008may10,0,4930097.story?page=1
I love how the author worked "dog" into the byline. Anyone need a primer on the use of the word "coon" in the Appalachians and South as an ethnic slur?
May 11, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"more prominence to the title of the original article"
May 11, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, you really look moronic writing an article then immediately posting multiple responses.
You just can't hear enough of yourself, can you?
This space is for reactions of the readers to your articles, not extended masturbation.
May 11, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Present dude, If you had a brain in your head, you would see that these are edits and corrections, since I can't go back and edit the original post because of the archaic code we have to deal with here. It to put it in terms you can understand - STFU!
May 11, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Bob Somerby notes:
I know certain people won't bother to read Somerby's piece, but here's the link anyway. It's an important piece. He is talking about the liberal pundits who view poor whites as racists.
I'll extend Somerby's thesis to astral66 and other Obama-supporting bloggers at TPM. You know who you are: You scour the Internet for MSM stories and op-eds about coon hunting.
I know you won't read the rest of my comment now. But I have more to say.
Non-pundit people who study numbers and elections for a living think Hillary could win these presumed-racist voters in a general election. These same presumed-racist voters used to be Democrats, after all, and they loyally supported the flagrantly racist administrations of FDR, Truman, JKF, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton. (In other words, history clearly shows that this bloc of presumed-racist voters voted for certain presidents because they were racist too! Sarcasm intended.)
Here's another article you won't read but should:
There's an amazing and telling map of Appalachia included with the article, which has been updated to include the primary results from Indiana and North Carolina.
As the electorate takes their state-by-state turn in these primaries, the liberal blogs smear the people who aren't like them. As Somerby notes:
In blunter language, shitting on poor white people is a longtime pseudo-liberal pastime, as honored by astral66.
May 11, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
rtbg,
Let me defend myself from your suspicion that I automatically consider all poor whites to be racist. I don't. (I can only speak for myself, not other pro-Obama folks at TPM.) I confess that I view Senator Clinton's campaign tactics with considerable cynicism; and I realize that since you're a Clinton supporter, you probably feel offended by some of the assumptions Obama supporters make when criticizing Clinton's campaign. Campaigning involves a lot of innuendo and insinuation, and it's natural that Obama supporters will be much less likely to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt when her statements strike a nerve.
My comments are critical of Senator Clinton (within the context of her campaign tactics), not of any particular group, or any individual voters.
It seems to me that by its nature, the study of voting trends is degrading to individuals, isn't it? By isolating out and labeling voter groups, then making predictions as to how they'll behave, we insult all those who do not fit the defined "profiles." And I've always felt like one of those outliers who never fits any of the defined profiles.
Also, using past information to predict future behavior doesn't adequately acknowledge changes in voters' attitudes. This problem in analyzing voting behavior can be insulting to people, too.
Some people make comments framed as analyses, and in the process, inadvertently offend individuals who don't fit the generalizing (and sometimes degrading) profiles. Then again, some people pretend to be analyzing voter behavior by making generalizing statements, but they are actually exploiting opportunities to express hostility--they seem to internalize the "us vs. them" dynamic of campaigns and act on a need to injure their momentary perceived enemies. I find this tactic to be particularly odious.
It's a shame to see this happening among left-leaning voters. I think all of us are vulnerable to having trouble discerning meaning and intent, especially since political campaigns rely on insinuation and innuendo, which are by nature tools that create confusion and "plausible deniability." And it gets impossible, during the heat of a campaign, to avoid running things through filters made of our own preferences and resentments.
May 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gasket, I come from a poor, white, rural, farming family in western PA. I know what I'm talking about becuase I am surrounded by it. As I said to "Present", if you don't know what you are talking about, or who you are talking about, STFU!
May 11, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Opus Hussein X:
I'll say whatever I want. This is a free country and a public blog.
Both of my parents came from dirt-poor farming families in rural Minnesota. My mother's home life was so bad (alcoholic parents) she left home at the age of 13 to live with her grandmother. She never finished high school. Got pregnant at 17, got married.
My dad started college but never finished. He got a decent job, I came along, we moved to Des Moines, my brother came along, we moved to Cleveland.
Before my parents divorced, my mom had to get her GED at the age of 40. Had to learn how to drive. Had to figure out how to survive on her own with a 75% loss of income. That was okay, since she never had anything in her life growing up. She worked two jobs. Had zero self-esteem.
In 2003, she died of a heart attack while shoveling her own driveway at the age of 64. She was still employed. Her last employer was Home Depot. I had to call her boss to let her know my mom wouldn't be coming back to work.
Happy Mother's Day.
Now STFU.
May 11, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope. These hard working, hard working white Americans aren't hearing that dog whistle Hillary keeps blowing...not at all.
Who in their right mind thinks these people actually will vote for a Democrat in the General?? I mean, really?
May 10, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the last thing she has to exploit. I understand that politicians are opportunists, but I can't help feeling a bit surprised at this last gambit. Even if she's not inclined to abandon it due to the sheer ugliness of it, I'm surprised she's not deterred by the extreme riskiness of it.
You know all those voters she got from the all-important big, blue states? Especially New York and California, where a large portion of her voters were undoubtedly the liberal "elites" her campaign has since maligned? I wonder how many of them are feeling some buyers remorse right about now.
May 10, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of the big states, I love that Hillary is now placing so much emphasis on two states and a territory that have so few pledged delegates. Oh cruel, cruel irony....
May 10, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, though. I wonder how many people in CA and NY wish they could take back their votes for Clinton?
May 10, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know about NY, but that question was recently poll tested in CA and to no one's surprise, yes, the people of California would like to take back their votes for Hillary.
http://cbs5.com/politics/poll.clinton.obama.2.720136.html
May 10, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Fascinating.
Thanks for the link, debrazza!
May 11, 2008 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama outpolls her in CA, and maybe NY (not sure about that, but I thought I read it somewhere) in head-to-head match-ups with McCain.
It does beg the question: while Hillary and McCain fight over the _________ vote (I don't know what to call it that won't turn my stomach for writing it), where are all the progressives supposed to go? All of those "elites" who supported the Clintons, while their blindness and recklessness turned the presidency over to George Bush and shattered our Democratic majority?
Where are we supposed to go? I'm 58 years old, a white female and a feminist -- I don't vote for a race-baiting candidate, or for obliterating Iran, or for breaking nomination rules. Where do I go?
Not Nader. For all my deep progressive leanings, a candidate who wants to "eliminate all corporations" is not exactly a sane choice.
Where do I go? I don't think of Hillary as a Democrat anymore, so what would I do if she gets FL and MI seated, runs with her "popular vote" meme that breaks all the rules -- where do I go?
Will HIllary spend the time to win back me and the entire AA community that she has demeaned?
The supers could effectively end this right now. By not coming out in sufficient enough numbers this week, they are giving tacit support to her and handing her talking points for Tuesday night when she wins big in WV. "The supers didn't flood to Obama. They have doubts, they know what's best for the party...." Mark my words. Talking points like this. Watch DailyKos and TPM explode with indignation.
Better to write and call as many supers as you can get through to. Because right now the future of the party is in their hands. Not Barack's. Not Hillary's. But their hands.
And they're being spineless as usual.
May 11, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, gosh. TPM and Kos will explode with anger? Their pinkie fingers will quiver? We better run and hide.
Look. The primary is over. Obama won. While the millions of voters left to vote are registering their opinion, why not spend the time thinking about a strategy that can beat McCain? That's what Obama is doing.
May 11, 2008 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/what-do-hezbollah-and-the-myan.php
Although I've posted on McCain and his many weaknesses, it appears that people are more interested in discussing coon hunting.
If you want to talk McCain, why don't you comment on that thread, instead of wasting your time here?
May 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I see just two threads up on John McCain, and one of them is mine. And I see no comments from Billy Glad there, but plenty here. Billy, Have you ever heard the saying "All hat and no horse"?
May 11, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/what-do-hezbollah-and-the-myan.php
Although I've posted on McCain and his many weaknesses, it appears that people are more interested in discussing coon hunting.
If you want to talk McCain, why don't you comment on that thread, instead of wasting your time here?
May 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am SO ready to take their guns.
May 10, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hear you have to pry them from their cold, dead hands.
May 10, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
COVERING NOW
May 11, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Praud to be a Merkin.
May 10, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am going to totally expose my ignorance/latte liberalism and ask what in the world coons are? Raccoons? Aren't they nocturnal? And why would you hunt them? I can't imagine the meat is any good. And if you see them during the day, don't they have rabies? And isn't "coon" supposed to be an offensive term? Can anyone help this curious city boy out?
May 10, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You send hounds after them at night. Eventually the hounds will tree one. Then you shoot it, it falls out of the tree, and the dogs go nuts. If that doesn't appeal to you, you just don't get it, and I feel sorry for you, and I pray that the Baby Lord Jesus forgives you.
May 10, 2008 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lol. Okay but there has to be some sort of purpose for killing them. Is it for population control? Food in the freezer?
May 10, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
What, are you from friggin France or something?
May 10, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too funny!
May 10, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
hey..don't diss the frogs dude
and "coon" is sadly another N word for rednecks
and the innocent diminutive of the nasty animal on Daniel Boone's coonskin hat.
speaking of kentucky
May 11, 2008 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
We're having some blood sport at the expense of Bambi's little friends and the blue guy snaps down the race card.
May 11, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
you white people are all the same
you'll never know what it feels like to be blue
i wish to shit i was a bigger demographic
May 11, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK backpack. That's the code thing. Like I told you back at ***DELETE*** remember who your operatives are. You know that the real leader is ***DELETE*** but it's time to make your own cell.
This way the more experienced agents like ***DELETE** and ***DELETE*** can see if they find you and your friends. And dude, how will you recruit friends out here in the open?
Remember backpack. No flashing colors. Related colors promote intimacy. Opposing colors create forward motion.
The goal is a drama, played for those who get it, and still, at its most base, works out questions of style and meaning for the masses.
It's the method, you know. Get right with "the method" and let me know that you have some chops.
Go forth and act. Check from ***DELETE*** at the drop box where I had to kill ***DELETE*** behind the ***grassy knoll***
DECLASSIFIED
May 11, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Varmint Hunting, dagnabit.
The ultimate goal of opposing crap-speak is clarity. Think of crap-speak as a kind of verbal varmint. You hunt it down and kill it. In that hunt, you release the incipient geniuses stuck in varmint crap. There are three or four on the cusp of escape, beyond the quip, beyond the whip, with crap-speak in the wake.
Once crap-speak has been marginalized, utterly to a lessor kind of communication, a low vernacular that one uses at risk, except as purposeful satire, the quality of the conversation will rise.
duh.....OMG ...I am SO into this idea. LOL
May 11, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK backpack. That's the code thing. Like I told you back at ***DELETE*** remember who your operatives are. You know that the real leader is ***DELETE*** but it's time to make your own cell.
This way the more experienced agents like ***DELETE** and ***DELETE*** can see if they find you and your friends. And dude, how will you recruit friends out here in the open?
Remember backpack. No flashing colors. Related colors promote intimacy. Opposing colors create forward motion.
The goal is a drama, played for those who get it, and still, at its most base, works out questions of style and meaning for the masses.
It's the method, you know. Get right with "the method" and let me know that you have some chops. Google METHOD and MOSCOW.
Go forth in disguise. The cash from ***DELETE*** is at the drop box where I had to kill ***DELETE*** behind the ***grassy knoll*** DECLASSIFIED.
May 11, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, You will need at least one living agent with you. I can't help you there. So recruitment out here in the open is your first test, after Moscow and the method.
May 11, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The first man carries the rifle, the second man carries the ammo. When the first man falls, the second man picks up the rifle..."
May 11, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you see that movie" Enemy at the Gates/ Tre cool
May 11, 2008 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Get out pipe man.
Too many deductions for hat. I've changed my mind.
Papapapapapapageno
May 11, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
C O V E R R I N G
Look look look to the rainbow
May 11, 2008 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spade, Thanks for pointing this out. Those of us from the rural regions of the Appalachians take a lot of things for granted, and sometimes forget to keep in mind that not everyone is up on hillbilly terminology. I hope you didn't take offense at our joking around.
May 10, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
opus
you are one hardworking country boy
did i say boy
and there's a guy named spade
irony of trying to get things right
May 11, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, this here penguin's an adult male. How you callin' boy?
May 11, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
you be the boy, country dude
May 11, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the "good ol' boy" crowd it's a "two-fer": one, killing small animals for fun is a hoot; two, killing an animal whose name in it's shortened form is also an ethnic slur for blacks makes it fun to an exponential degree.
May 10, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the winter, we trap 'quins. We call their fins "crunchies."
May 10, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The practice, of course, is creating subterfuge in the open. The goal, a multitude of miscues that really fit. The master, JLC.
Best actor, Alec Guiness
May 11, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Opus, Rootman for expanding my education on the habits of gun toters. I'm really not from France. Just city born and raised, which is just as bad, I'm sure.
May 10, 2008 11:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your exchange with Rootman is what makes me love this place. Classic!
May 10, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coon hunting is like varmint shooting. The thrill is the kill. That's it. Varmint shooters will set up on a hill or bluff and shoot small animals, prairie dogs, ground hogs and such, from hundreds of yards away as a test of skill. They crave seeing the red mist that follows a good kill. Nobody eats the meat. Killing is the whole point.
Fun, huh?
May 10, 2008 11:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Having had the opportunity to live on both the East and West coasts, plus some of the parts in between, I'm constantly reminded that everyone thinks that everyone else in other parts of the country think just like they do. But there's a big difference between the New York, Western PA, Colorado, and San Francisco mindsets.
May 11, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
The bread is good, I gotta say
May 11, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had a French import once. A Le Car.
May 11, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
keep insulting them and the seniors and the women and the hispanics as did Brazile - By the way,the democratic party loved west virginia until they switched to Bush in 2000 and 2004 - Jacqueline Kennedy loved the state so much that she would only use and buy glassware from west virginia in the White House for their receptions. Keep doing the good work for your candidate - I'm sure the super delegates would love to read your comments especially senator Byrd!
May 11, 2008 7:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've travelled in your state and think its people are wonderful.
May 11, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hold on a minute, I didn't write this article that cites the quotes and opinions of West Virginians, that would be Stephen Braun, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer. I just posted them here so we could discuss them.
May 11, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Way to placate your heavily armed readers.
May 11, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm an agitator, not an author!
May 11, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I'm trying to audition for Greg's job? Can I get an echo?
May 11, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? Are you auditioning for Greg's job?
May 11, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why, is there an opening?
May 11, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
(snare tap) ba dum dum!
May 11, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
suzieg,
Obviously I can't speak for everyone here, but my impression is that most of the criticism is aimed at the Clinton campaign, not West Virginians, or seniors, or women, or Hispanics. The concern is that the campaign is exploiting tensions between different groups of voters. I hope it stops soon. It's crazy and stupid. The Democratic Party needs everyone in the general election.
May 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very interesting thread. I guess racoon hunting has changed a lot since I was a boy. Back then, the idea was to listen to the hounds. Every hound has a distinctive voice. And you can follow the chase and tell which hound is out in front, just by the sound. Getting prized dogs mixed up with a racoon, especially in the water, was thought of as something to avoid. I never saw a racoon killed by dogs or anything else, but I guess local customs vary.
May 11, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you're saying the point of coon hunting is NOT to kill the raccoon?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L7bASuSYek
May 11, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yikes! An actual coon hunting video with dogs, trees, and accented hunters. The reader commentary below makes the argument better than anything.
May 11, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The racoons enjoy it as much as the hunters.
May 11, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, if God didn't want us to kill for fun, he wouldn't have put guns in our bitter, clinging hands.
May 11, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did. In Oxford, MS. But I'm pretty sure that it was a sick raccoon to begin with, because it was the middle of the day--not typical raccoon time.
My neighbors two dogs each had a mouthful, and were (it looked to me) trying to pull the raccoon apart. Not quite drawing and quartering, but close.
It was an interesting welcome to Oxford. I had just moved there from Boston.
May 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are the one who sounds bitter. Yet your candidate won. I can't imagine how you would be talking if you were behind by a few hundred delegates.
May 11, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's my answer to you, Otto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L7bASuSYek
May 11, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point astral66. That's a sad-assed group of whites to be claiming as her base.
May 11, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I read this sort of thing, I'm not struck by the politics, but by how ignorant huge pockets of our population still are. It's about poverty, it's about lack of economic opportunity, it's about really sucky educational systems, and this is why these people in isolated, rural areas so terribly uninformed and so easily manipulated. It pains me to hear it. Why do we, as a country, let this go unaddressed? Why do we let huge portions of our population languor in ignorance and economic deprivation? You want guns? Fine. But, for God's sake, make informed choices for yourself and your children.
May 11, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, we won't change anything if we let a guy with no judgement who is up to his neck in lobbyists keep campaigning without getting challenged on it.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/what-do-hezbollah-and-the-myan.php
May 11, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would much rather be talking about John McCain, but no one seems to be interested in that at all. As a social experiment, I posted about him last night, too, and have had very few comments. So if people want to keep debating last week's battle, well, let's keep talking about Hillary scraping the bottom of the barrel for votes that won't help her cause in the least.
May 11, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, the Hillary topic is spent.
Let's Move On! McCain it is.
May 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've got to head over to my folks' for Mother's Day dinner. Hope to see everyone on a McCai nthread later! If not the one I linked to above, then post the McCain thread of your choosing.
May 11, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know how to do block quotes, so forgive my efforts here. I'm reading a biography on Obama by David Mendell. In one chapter Dan Shomon, Obama's chief political advisor while he was in the Illinois legislature, tells a story about he and Obama driving around down-state Illinois to see how Obama would be received outside of the Chicago area. According to Shomon:
"We are driving through Perry Township and we pass the Pinckneyvill Coon Club. And, you know, this guy (Obama) has never really been in the south. So Barack looks at the sign, looks at me, and he says,'I don't think they're going to let me join the Pinckneyville Coon Club.' He then starts laughing and he is laughing so hard he almost fell off his chair."
I don't think he's too worried about the Coon Club demographic.
May 11, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
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