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We're Screwed - The Coalition is Shattered.
Just kidding. But seriously, if you haven't already seen this, it's really worth a look. I'm not usually one to write a blog only for the purpose of linking to another blog, but this needs to echo across the blogosphere. (Can we please come up with a better word than that?)
I found it via Sullivan, and it's over on Al Giordano's The Field. He wrote it up after reading Charles Blow's op-ed in the Times today.
Blow wrote:
The question is this: Have white Democrats soured on Obama? Apparently not. Although his unfavorable rating from the group is up five percentage points since last summer in polls conducted by The New York Times and CBS News, his favorable rating is up just as much.
On the other hand, black Democrats’ opinion of Hillary Clinton has deteriorated substantially (her favorable rating among them is down 36 percentage points over the same period).
While a favorable opinion doesn’t necessarily translate into a vote, this should still give the Clintons (and the superdelegates) pause. Electability cuts both ways.
And from Giordano:
So, to sum up: Look at the damn graphs. You can see that Clinton is in a staggering free-fall among African-American voters, her favorability is down 36 points while 17 percent view her more negatively than before, while Obama’s favorable and negative ratings among whites have paired at five point increases. You can even see the small dip - about two percentage points - in his popularity among whites that can be attributed to the news cycles about his ex-pastor, and see that it has leveled out and is now on a straight horizontal line (meanwhile, Clinton’s numbers among blacks continue on an extreme downward precipice). The greater context is that even including Obama’s slight dip, he’s more popular today among white voters than he ever was prior to February.
Not since Ronald Reagan has an American presidential candidate withstood such an assault in the media and seen his popularity not hurt by it, but, rather, galvanized by it. That’s what is meant, in politics, by the term “Teflon.”
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Comments (89)
Hilary, you beat me to it! I was just reading Blow's column in the New York Times today. It's a great article, and he points out very clearly all of the fallacies that the Clintons and their surrogates have been pushing. But the chart itself says it all. Obama isn't losing white voters, it's just another Clinton race-baiting smear that they're pushing to all of their sympathizers in the MSM.
Registered black Democrats opinion of Hillary Clinton: favorable sees a 36% decline, unfavorable sees a 17% increase.
Registered white Democrats opinion of Obama in the same period: favorable sees a 5% INCREASE along with an accompanying 5% decrease in unfavorable.
Obama's support among registered white Democratic voters is NOT DECREASING AT ALL. It's just ANOTHER CLINTON LIE that is being parroted by the MSM.
May 3, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, so what if Clinton's support among African-Americans is plummeting. It's not like their votes count for as much.
(A black vote is only worth 2/3rds of a white vote, right?)
May 3, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um if we are strict constitutionalists, it's 5/8, right? Though I bet Hillary has a different number in mind...like maybe zero...
May 3, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take a memo!
3/5th's is the number you're looking for!
May 3, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about pointing them to the Constitution so they can learn the other stuff as well. 1 click away.
May 3, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Hillary's points among African Americans will rise as soon as the Obama crowd stops demonizing her across America for every trivial perceived slight. You would think Bill saying the name "Jesse" was the same as Mel Gibson spouting off after a night of tequila. The year of Trivial Pursuits.
May 3, 2008 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone her doubt that Bill has lost his "first black predsident" title in the eyes of the Americanpeople, especially black America.
It is so sad, the legacy the Clintons built that bridged so many cultural divisions has been sacrificed to keep a futile campaign rolling?
If they had not so willfully defied the populist uprising that Obama represents, they would still have the undying love and respect of the black community and those of us who empathize.
But it will be hard to retrieve that honor for the future, probably impossible, after the desperation tactics, which they so callously acknowledged with their "kitchen sink" strategy.in or lose, the Clintons have tossed some of the best parts of their own legacy to perpetuate what has clearly become the campaign to nowhere.
And don't give me all the long odds about how she's still got a chance, I went through that already as an Edwards supporter.
I know very well what it is like to argue for a candidate who, for right or wrong, I know is not going to win, and it hurts.
I won't do it again. Especially if it hurts our chances of taking back the White House.
May 4, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Readers, make sure you check out the chart and article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/opinion/03blow.html
May 3, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The chart." Lies, damned lies and statistics...
Really, I haven’t seen too many reporters talking about Obama’s loss of “white voters” as a group (i.e. white people just won't vote for him whereas black people overwhelmingly will). I have seen reports of white working class voters in PA and OH along with, say, Hispanics in TX and CA and older women voting for Clinton. Do you think that they are strictly voting race? People will vote for any and all sorts of crazy reasons and that is their right. But it is their duty to vote civically, in the interest of all (all-for-one and one-for-all), rich-poor, black-white, uneducated-ignorant, as a nation and as human beings.
Identity politics, in this sense limited to voting only because black or female, is a problem morally because it is, by definition, biased and practically because it takes broad coalitions to get a majority to win office. It isn’t single issue voting so much as every issue being filtered through that identity. And it is wrong to effectively demonize one candidate to bolster another because you identify with race or gender regardless of their qualifications, policies, character, etc. (I know, I know, everyone’s candidate is the best in every aspect aside from the fact that they identify tribally with them).
Yes, it is true that voting for someone who will better understand and pursue the interests of one’s identity group is less “narrow-minded” than voting only because of race or gender, but only by degree and only if there are overwhelmingly substantial differences between the candidates on that issue. Obama has campaigned on a post-racial transcending-the-divisions strategy of unity. The fact is, he has not been a leading light on specific AA issues anymore than Clinton has been a promoter of feminist special interests as opposed to, say, family issues. So, his support is not mainly about his understanding and policy prescriptions for minorities as much as it is about his being a minority for those identity voters.
To be sure, he has not campaigned as a “black candidate” except in the black community, and even there, he has been kept a distance. But there was a campaign of pure identity politics early on with barber-beautyshop-black church-Oprah “we are the ones/he is the one,” and later, the Speech, appeals. I keep repeating this refrain only because it is responsible for the precipitous drop off in AA support for Clinton. It was a strategy and it worked. And while Clinton has broadly appealed to women in general, also as a “first,” she has only occasionally appealed to the feminist identity (Steinhem and Ferraro, maybe).
Truth is, African Americans, in general, and liberal “post-racial” whites gravitated to Obama in direct proportion to the identification of the Clinton campaign as race-baiting liars and good-for-nothings. It was not so much a new identification with a black politician as a rupture with an old ally who was demonized, and it worked.
The fact that 90% of the black vote has swung to the black candidate speaks for itself. Whites support Obama and whites have supported mayors, senators, representatives, school board members, you name it; there is not a clear racial divide, except in this race.
May 4, 2008 2:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
As someone who used to like her, I can say that at least in my case, Hillary demonized herself, with a lot of help from Bill, (and Penn, Wolfson, Lanny Davis, Ickes).
May 4, 2008 8:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Howard Wolfson started this issue from selected exit polls and fed it to the MSM and the MSM has blown this narrative way out of proportion. The danger is that it then takes on a life of its own.
The Clinton surrogates flood the MSM with their talking points and they essentially go uncontested.
And to the small extent that it does get challenged, I don't hear the Obama case being made at anywhere near the decibel level of the Clinton case.
May 3, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the great divide here, Clinton and surrogates screaming bloody murder everyday, Obama and his campaign attempting to stick to the high road and to not be dragged down into Hillary's streetfight.
May 3, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep - perception becomes reality.
May 3, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
The MSM have been swallowing the Clinton feed like ducks in a foie gras farm. They could at least occasional show signs of a gag reflex.
May 3, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
occasionally
May 3, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
mmmmmm...foie gras...
May 3, 2008 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have been reading Al's blog The Field since I found it a couple of weeks before the Iowas Caucus. He is, in my opinion, one of the finest independent political reporters in the blogosphere. He's been in the political game for many years and has a pretty good feel for whats happening, and provides much needed analysis based on real data.
Thanks for posting this!
May 3, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah he's great. I stumbled across it accidentally a few weeks back, but I wasn't sure how many others read it regularly. This one seemed like a can't miss.
May 3, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Recommended. I am soooo sick of hearing about white voters and their racial anxieties.
Apparently the anxieties loom a lot larger for pundits than for the rest of us.
May 3, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Truth is generally the best vindication against slander.
Abraham Lincoln
May 3, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Not since Ronald Reagan has an American presidential candidate withstood such an assault in the media and seen his popularity not hurt by it, but, rather, galvanized by it. That’s what is meant, in politics, by the term “Teflon.”"
Will the MSM ever get around to giving Obama his due for withstanding their assaults and smears against him? Bittergate, Wright x2, plagiarism, on and on and on and each time they breathlessly warn that he's gonna be in trouble. When it doesn't materialize, they move to the next scurillous attack. His numbers have held for months now, with minor fluctuations. At some point, they have to start crediting him for being tough, unflappable, and telfon.
May 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
All self inflicted moves by a rookie politician who is an empty suit and not ready for prime t
time. Stop your whining.
May 3, 2008 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Terre Haute, IN, the seat of Vigo County, where the demographics are said to favor Clinton (a number of less-educated, working-class whites). But when Obama visited a few weeks ago 2700 people came to hear him, while Hillary only managed 1500 last Thursday. The venues were essentially the same: two different, but equally-sized high school gyms. I attended the Obama rally, and saw plenty of white, working-class Hoosiers (who applauded his explanation of the "bitter" comments).
May 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many rock concert tickets did Obama give those 2700 as a bribe to attend the rally?
May 3, 2008 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Down, Hillary! Down! Bad Dog!
May 3, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
HA! Tickets were gone in MINUTES. We would really have liked to go, but hoped that someone like you with an open mind, was there in our stead.
May 3, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kingsnake! I'll be knocking on doors at Greenwood Manor Tuesday. If you are not already committed, see if the campaign needs some help in the projects.
That voter ID law is going to be a killer. A birth certificate is necessary to get a picture ID. Oddly, or not, it is NOT required for a driver's license. The numbers who won't vote or are turned away could go six figures in the state, by my guess.
May 3, 2008 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you think I am kidding about this voter ID issue, ck out this State of Indiana brochure:
http://www.state.in.us/bmv/files/simpleidreq.pdf
May 3, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
The North Carolina campaign will show an improvement in Clinton's support among Afro-americans. It's the wommen who will make the difference.
The "just words" is something African American women know well. They'll reach past Obama's silken speeches to Hillary hardcore platform.
Enough BS already.
May 3, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
We shall see.
We agree on one thing though - enough BS already. Enough indeed.
May 3, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
**I'm happy to see that the NAACP is filing a complaint against the "women's group" who have been attempting to mess with the black vote in many states. Hmmmm. Action. Not words.
May 3, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Just words?" What, have you been out of the country for a couple of months and are still working through the old newspapers?
If you want to talk "just words," how about you start with Hillary's "You're either with us or with the oil companies" bluster to her fellows in Congress. I bet that's going over big with the superdelegates.
Oh yeah, and you should listen to Barack's words in Indianapolis today:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gGCSXV
Then we can talk about "just words."
May 3, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is such a fabulous story - I'd like to recommend it back onto the top of the list.
I love this. I am sick about the people wanting to analyze this as racial from our side - and Josh bought it.
I hate it - it's such a false picture and this is so very real!!!!!!
May 3, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
ARGH!
WENCH HILLARY'S PUSS IS SOUR!
ME EARS BLEED WHEN THE WENCH CACKLES!
NEVER TRUST CHARLES COKE!
ACQUIRE! MERGE! MARAUD! DILUTE! DILUTE!
ARGH!
May 3, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have one pirate friend - I wonder?...
May 3, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
With all this talk about low income white voters, you'd think some people in the media would ask questions about why in the 21st- century, the uneducated are still hanging onto racism. I am not saying that Hillary's supporters are all racist, not in the least. And I don't think Hillary and Bill are racist either.
But with all this air time to fill and with all the faux analyses of Race in America, you'd think someone would actually examine the question of why race means so much to lower income voters. To my mind, that has been one of the most disturbing things about this primary season. "Race" is black. "Race" is Jeremiah Wright whose conspiracy theories are divisive and racist.
But whiteness is a race as well, and no one seems inclined to examine the assumptions upon which the "white" voter (strangely distinguished from the "affluent, educated voter") makes his or her political decisions. What central concept of racial identity are such voters "clinging to" in this primary season, and why won't the likes of Wolf Blitzer and Adam Nagourney examine it?
May 3, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"the uneducated are still hanging onto racism."
your question contains your answer...
May 3, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right, but why isn't the media asking that question and why aren't they pointing out the obvious answer?
I fall into the educated, affluent, latte group (though I don't drink coffee) and am well aware of the limitations of that perspective. And of course, that demographic is everyone's favorite target as if being liberal and educated were worthy of suspicion and terribly unAmerican. This is an old conservative ploy used by the likes of David Brooks and William Kristol as if anyone who is educated and *not* conservative is a traitor to their class.
But let me rephrase my original questions: When will the media begin to examine some of the assumptions its made about race during this election? Who will issue the country a scorecard on how it has responded to this historic candidacy? Maybe we won't be able to have that perspective until after we've gone through this process.
May 3, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
"uneducated are still hanging onto racism."
First, I have to say that racism is not bound by class, or education. It exists in every demographic. I know very wealthy people who still struggle with racism. Some of them will not vote for Obama because he's black, sadly. Others are ardent supporters - and acknowledge that they struggle with remnants of a childhood with racist parents, or the leftovers of an era in which racial strife was tantamount. They know in their head it is wrong, that every one is equal, but still find themselves reacting to certain things in a way that reflects old racial paradigms.
Secondly, in all this talk of how Obama can't win over non-college graduates or the "working class," we fail to remember that Clinton is a formidable opponent who came to this contest with a plethora of advantages. Not the least of which are fond memories of the 90s. Assuming that they're are voting for Clinton in larger numbers than Obama because they don't like him does neither candidate justice. I assumed I would be voting for Clinton until I started to get to know Obama. (what seems like many, many months ago now.)
Finally, bizarre as this may seem to those of us existing in the echo chamber, not everyone realizes the mathematical improbability she faces. I spoke with a friend who lives outside Philly the night after the primary in PA, to see who she had decided to vote for and get a feel for turnout. She told me Clinton, which of course got her some good natured ribbing from me. I told her she was only prolonging my agony! And she was surprised, and said, "But she's only behind 100 or so." I explained to her about proportional representation and the unlikelihood that should would be able to catch up as a result, and she was honestly surprised. She is not anywhere close to being a political junkie, but her boyfriend is, and she's usually at least mostly up on things. How she missed the endless delegate discussions on the news, I don't know, but she did. So I only wonder how many other people don't know that. I don't know how much it would matter, obviously ardent supporters on both sides are going to continue to support their candidates, but I suspect some on-the-fencers might be persuaded by that.
May 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree completely Hilary. We all struggle with racism to varying degrees. And most people select candidates for a complicated network of political and emotional reasons. As I've said previously, in no way am I saying that people support Clinton because of their racism. There are lots of good reasons to support Clinton. I don't begrudge anyone who supports her (well, maybe a little.)
My questions are about why "race" has been coded in this election to mean "black" as if "white" were not a race. "Playing the race card" has come to mean underscoring blackness, but it could just as easily mean whiteness. Most Americans do not see it that way because "white" has always been the default.
Here's where I think the media could do a better job in asking us to think about these assumptions. America is changing so rapidly and this presidential primary is changing us faster than our commentators can keep up. Before we know it, we'll have candidates of all hues and sexes, and we'll have to develop a more sophisticated terminology to describe those future candidates -- and not use "race" simply to mean "different from white."
May 3, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a really intriguing point, and one I've been guilty of myself.
I won't be expecting the media to encourage us to question our own assumptions any time soon, but it sure would be nice in an ideal world. I'd even go so far as to say all they really do is enforce old assumptions that maybe need some rethinking. That's honestly why I just jump on here anymore. We all do a better job of challenging each other than all the Wolf Blitzers of the world.
May 3, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely. Thanks for initiating this discussion. I've been overseeing a slumber party this Saturday night, and this conversation has been a wonderful -- and instructive -- break from the Hannah Montana marathon in my house!
May 3, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uneducated White people? Jeez...say it ain't true.
I'm lucky I'm blue.
May 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillarym99, first of all, I loved reading this comment. It almost seems like something that ought to be made into its own post, since it's tangential to the original topic of this post, and would have been easy to miss.
To throw another demographic data point into the mix -- my white, highly educated grandmother from Illinois favors Obama strongly. But when she talks about him she throws out phrases like, "he's smarter than most blacks." Which, I suppose, is technically true, since I'm convinced he's smarter than most *people* of any ethnicity -- but that's not her sentiment. So I wonder how many people are like my grandmother and experience racism in an unapologetic but more "open-minded" way? My grandmother's attitude is a tricky one to read into polling and primary results.
May 4, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
“With all this talk about low income white voters, you'd think some people in the media would ask questions about why in the 21st- century, the uneducated are still hanging onto racism.”
In the first place, racism is largely perpetuated through class oppression, but what about black voters who won’t vote for HRC just because she is white? Is that just the “uneducated”?
May 4, 2008 2:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Won't support her just because she's white? What a ridiculous statement. Blacks overwhelmingly supported Bill Clinton as President, and thousands of other white Democrats, including Hillary in New York. They supported Hillary 2-1 early in the campaign. The reason they're not supporting her now is because of her campaign's disgusting tactics.
May 4, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I phrased that poorly. Mercerreader was talking about low-income voters supporting Clinton because she's white (and because they're "uneducated"). It is a very small percentage of that group voting on race; a much smaller percentage, I imagine, than AA voters voting on race. It is the same as those women that support Hillary because she is a woman. They are not voting for Obama because he is a man, just as some bigoted voters will never vote for him because he's black. There are different reasons behind those choices but they have the same result.
A lot of black voters moved to Obama as all of the rumors and stories of race-baiting by the Clinton camp were spread. I think it was a big smear, but regardless, HRC was seen as racist or not above dirty race politics anyway. Those outraged voters didn't jump to Edwards before he bowed out. They jumped to the black candidate.
I understand the difference between positive and negative choices. Voting for someone isn't necessarily voting against someone else but it often is. Identity politics is an exclusionary strategy even if you're only voting because that person would represent the interests of the group identified with. Blacks voting for Obama because he would represent the interests of African-Americans provides a rationale for some whites and Hispanics voting Clinton because she's white and would represent their interests better.
May 4, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
A rise in negatives for either over time belies a lot of the charges about voters being racist. If some whites started out with a favorable view of Obama but changed their mind over time and some blacks started out with a favorable view of Hillary and changed their mind over time, well, I am pretty sure most of those people already knew the color of Obama's skin and Hillary's skin back then when they liked them more. Pretty much leaves you with the idea that such folks changed their mind because of something each candidate is doing or not doing or saying or isn't saying. It's actually a sad counter-productive situation for race card players, because such people will naturally react even further in the same direction by being labeled racists, heh.
May 3, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, sir.
May 4, 2008 2:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not to take us off on a tangent, but can you explain to me why Jeremiah Wrights "conspiracy theories are divisive and racist"?
Just so you know up front, I'm kinda interest in the "racist" element, you know, as in hateful and/or marginalizing white people, or another race.
(Sarcasm Alert!)
Thanks for your thoughtful analysis in advance!
May 3, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mis-typing on my part. I should have put quotes around "divisive" and "racist." My point is that Wright is presented as being "racist," while Obama is faulted for not connecting with "white" voters whose sense of race is not examined, not explored. "White" is always presumed to be the default, as if it were not a racial construction itself. I'm not sure how to read the sarcasm. Though perhaps clumsy, I'm sincere in trying to sift through these concerns.
May 3, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah it's late in the day for this since no one is around, but
I do know the answer. I do.
It's not racism - that's impossible in the society that was built by white folks, where all the laws were written by white folks for white folks and we are still in numbers the majority and we are in charge and have been for over 200 years.
So discrimination on the basis of race - which is what racism is - against white folks looks pretty silly in that context.
But the problem is a deeply rooted one and it's not pretty, but it will have to be contended with:
Rev Wright isn't grateful enough. There is an spoken agreement among some older white folks, especially, that African Americans are fine as long as they act "civilized" which translates to "know their place." And one way they show that they know they place is by being grateful to us for some unknown goddamn reason only those people can fathom.
That's how I see it - that's because I've heard it my whole life. I grew up in Texas which has a multiple personality disorder -it's kinda Louisiana, it's kinda New Mexico, it's kinda Oklahoma - it's way too big. ;) But the south was and still is a big part of it here and I remember segregation.
May 3, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aaaaaargh - now I fooked up my italics tags!
May 3, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
and it should have been unspoken agreement.
May 3, 2008 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the gratitude issue goes a long way in explaining a lot of what happens in the US -- both why people like Wright are so self-righteously shunned and why (as has been mentioned elsewhere) "liberal elites" are treated as anathema. As in, "What the fuck is wrong with you? If you're elite, god damn it, you better be a fucking Republican."
May 3, 2008 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
And of course the problem as many see it is that Obama is uppity. I wrote Eugene Robinson once and challenged him to write about this, but alas he never took me up on it.
You know, however, I think there is another factor at play. A very influencial and successful woman once told me something, and it keeps creeping into my consciousness whenever this mess gets out of control. She said "There is very little room in the middle, there is much less room at the bottom, there is all kinds of room at the top."
Been stickin' with me. No room for anyone, now that everyone is headed down.
May 3, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
“Rev Wright isn't grateful enough. There is an spoken agreement among some older white folks, especially, that African Americans are fine as long as they act "civilized" which translates to "know their place." And one way they show that they know they place is by being grateful to us for some unknown goddamn only those people can reason fathom.”
I'm white and Texan, too. But you're an idiot.
May 4, 2008 2:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please excuse that remark as I don't want to attack anyone personally.
May 4, 2008 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah sure you don't.
And no reason for why I'm an idiot - no explanation. Just I'm an idiot.
Ok - I do get dumber every year I'm alive. I realize that.
Tell me where I went wrong here, please - I'd like to know.
May 4, 2008 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Again, I apologize Tena. I was pissed at once again reading the implication that most whites down here (on another site, it was all white southerners) are racist. I realize that there are some racists of varying degrees and there are some people just like you describe. But I know no one like that. They're more rare than common. I know some whites who don't like the influx of Hispanics and feel their jobs are threatened by illegals. I know some whites, blacks and Hispanics who occasionally speak derogatorily of one of the others about some specific thing. But I haven't met anyone that really believes and demands that blacks "know their place."
May 4, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: Regarding the general reaction to Rev Wright’s various comments, Obama denounced his statements in no uncertain terms as patently offensive. I know you’re not implying that Obama was just playing politics when he said that, right? :)
May 4, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are describing Pat Buchanan to a "T."
May 4, 2008 3:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
libgirl, a truer word was never spoken...
May 4, 2008 4:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
So is race the easy label that is applied to a shifting of perspectives? Or is it an easy way for the media to offer a general theme when nuanced analyses is too tough for them?
I wonder, too, if what people really mean by "race" is "culture." That is, the practices and rituals of a South Side church are presented as racial differences when, in fact, they are cultural differences. The same might be said of Pennsylvania hunters whose community is bound by certain traditions. But "race" is obviously a more explosive (and divisive) way of presenting these differences than "culture."
May 3, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate when they try to lump white people together too. Just going on generalizations for a moment, Jewish voters trend very differently from Irish-Catholic voters. There's more differences between the different groups of "white" Americans than there are similarities through which one might form a voting bloc.
May 3, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gosh, I'm a white 62 year old middle income Irish-Catholic voter for Obama. I must really confused the analysts. Just to further complicate it, I like white wine but can't stand Brie.
May 3, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I honestly agree. When I am talking about Wright and his impact, what I've said is really the reason I don't think this issue has had that deep an influence on most voters' thinking.
I do not think that racism is going to cause Obama to lose. I could tell y'all 100 reasons why I think that is so - look at our very lowest common deminator - Television.
I knew straight Americans' view of homosexuality was changing and was going to keep changing because there was a long-running prime time sit-com that was based on homosexuality as the show's whole shtick.
The other evening I was watching TV and an ad came on and in it an African American guy and a white girl are sitting on a step eating burgers and another white guy comes alone and the two on the steps tell him about the burgers and mock him.
Think about that for a minute. O snap! Would you have seen that ad 20 years ago? I don't think so. The culture is changing in very profound ways. It shows up in strange places, but if you pay attention to little clues like TV ads- you can see it. It's a profound change.
I think Bush was the last gasp of the old way. Clinton is trying to drag us back there - it's too late.
The culture has moved on.
May 4, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right, as is the case with African Americans, Asian Americans, etc. But I think the media is more guilty of attaching the concept of "race" to African Americans (thus creating a false totality) than it is for "whites." Hence, Obama has to answer for what other black people say, while white politicians do not.
May 3, 2008 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
White people are not as Racist as black people. We look at a candidates qualifications. Clearly black people are voting for Oilbama simply because he is black. It is incredibly racist and I am happy to point it out. Yes, Oilbama supporters have clearly run the most low class
sexist and racist campaign in history. Hillary has had death threats and been called a F*cking Wh*re while Oilbama supporters cheered. That must be the change Oilbama keeps talking about. Maybe one of you clueless Oilbama trolls can tell me why you supported his vote for Dick Cheney's Big Oil Energy bill? It should give you something to do for a little while besides threatening women and calling them F*cking Wh*res.
May 3, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
SHAME ON YOU, HILLARY CLINTON! SHAME ON YOU!
May 3, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
dumbilical, I bet you haven't watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvnMK1d9xE0
May 3, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks very much for that. At least there is a voice of reason out there somewhere. The double standard is astounding and so disheartening. I thought we were bigger than that.
May 3, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ban this clown.
May 4, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
If all you ever read was TPM, you wouldn't even know blacks are allowed to vote in America.
May 3, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think black voters supporting black candidates because they are black is categorically different from white voters supporting white candidates simply because they are white. Black voters have a long history of supporting white candidates, while for many white voters, that is not the case. As a group, black voters have repeatedly shown their ability to look beyond race when voting for the presidency. White voters are being challenged to do the same in 2008, and it has not been easy.
More importantly, the sense of triumph and accomplishment that many black voters must feel towards Obama (and some women feel towards Clinton) should not be underestimated nor scorned. Obama's not simply a politician; he's a cultural hero, a symbol of progress, a living manifestation of the triumph of MLK and Malcolm X.
I regret the way both Clinton and Obama have been the recipient of death threats and ugly slurs. It is truly awful how the two have been demonized by segments of the opposing camp.
I wonder if Clinton is perceived as a cultural hero in the way that Obama has become. You read the op-eds written by various feminists, and there's a deep divide around the meaning of her candidacy.
May 3, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely. A vote to maintain the status quo is different than one to break it. Same goes for women who are voting for Clinton.
You simply cannot made the assumption that women are voting for Clinton because they think men are inferior, or that blacks are voting for Obama because they think other races are inferior - you have no possible way of knowing the intent of each and every one of the voters.
May 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
White people are not as Racist as black people. We look at a candidates qualifications. Clearly black people are voting for Oilbama simply because he is black.
I am so racist that I stood up for Bill Clinton when he was under attack from the vast right-wing conspiracy. According to the New York Times, his [Clinton's] unfavorable rating among whites climbed to 52 percent; among blacks it was only 10 percent. How racist of black people!
May 3, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should have used "his [Clinton's] unfavorable rating among whites climbed to 52 percent; among blacks it was only 10 percent."
May 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
In poll in November of last year of African Americans Hillary's approval ratings exceeded those of Obama. Neither racism nor sexism is apparent there but perhaps familiarity played a role. Hillary also did well among African Americans up until SC when Bill made the comment that attempted to marginalize Obama's candidacy based on race. That was the difference and is amplified the subsequent offensive comments. The Clintons lost their vote. It isn't because of race.
May 3, 2008 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even less if they vote in a caucus. Or live in a red state, or a small state, or a state whose name begins with a vowel...
May 3, 2008 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
or one that you fly over
May 3, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think the election is really going to be as much about race in the voting booth as the Clintons and the Republicans have pinned their hopes on it being.
The whole Wright thing really was racial, but I don't think that it's going to hurt him in the long run. I think it turned some more African American voters toward Obama.
And the kind of unspoken racism the whole nonoutrage was designed to exploit isn't really as widespread as it once was.
It's mostly older white folks who still have this idea that African Americans should "know their place." I see that as what was that about - that Wright refuses to be grateful to white folks - and some older ones seem to have the totally irrational idea that African Americans are supposed to be grateful to us for some goddamn reason - I don't get it, but it's not something that will live beyond that generation except in isolated instances, IMO. So I am glad it got out there and then over with before November.
May 3, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heartened by the article (I'm a huge Obama supporter, though I will still vote for HRC if she becomes the nominee), but I'm actually more concerned about how white independents now view Obama. Any graphs on that? That's where I fear Wright fallout (the most ridiculous "issue," as Bob Herbert so wisely pointed out today in the NY Times). Question will be if Obama (who I still believe will be the nominee) can regain lost ground over the summer and autumn. I think he can.
May 3, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what you're saying is that no matter how badly Obama screws up, it doesn't stick. We'll see about that.
May 4, 2008 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
obama is surrounded by parties frantically slinging everything they have at him in the hopes that something will stick. nothing is; hence teflon.
as for Obama screwing up, well i think the proof is in the pudding isn't it? his voice and his message appear to resonate deeply with a nation clearly nonplussed with the status quo. in the face of his maintenance of solid figures in terms of delegates and polling, despite all the muck slinging directed towards him, how can you say he has screwed up his campaign?
May 4, 2008 3:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, Obama screwed up. He has black skin in America and wants to be president.
On your profile, you call yourself liberal. It's amazing that you are therefore a supporter of Hillary Clinton. Of all the candidates, she is the tightest with Wall Street.
Now, if you are a millionaire, she's your girl. But if you are a regular Democrat, do not expect much in the way from her until after she takes care of all of the pinstripes.
May 4, 2008 3:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, this reply was to Otto F, the post just above this one.
May 4, 2008 4:06 AM | Reply | Permalink