Thanks for the summary, Tom. I'm spent after all the related discussion (at http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/better-reader-posts.php), but it's nice to see everything summarized cleanly. And don't forget the "my discussions" and "my favorite posters" features that Josh mentioned in the above thread.

Recommended.

Firmly.

For this election year, perhaps separate sections with their own pages for Polls, Endorsements, Controversies (Pastorgate, Moneygate, etc.), so those who want to keep track or update can do so without clogging up the opinion/news blogs. I find Polls to be particularly interesting as they do show a trend over time and the Endorsement/Delegate Math is crucial at this point, and a cliff hanger for us.

I'm still very mixed about downratings. The increasingly volume of schlock on the recommend list makes me more open to it, but I think that it would completely stifle dissent. It's hard enough for a Clinton supporter to get a post on the list as it is. Imagine how hard it would be with legions of Obama supporters pounding on the "you suck" button.

Obviously, the primary issue will go away soon, but there will always be dissenting voices and gadflies that should be heard.

I suspect that you're picturing an enlightened readership that doesn't downrate lightly, and maybe the old cafe was like that, but the new cafe doesn't seem to be.

More generally, we have an inherent problem here that goes beyond technical features and which I alluded to in the previous thread. Run the site democratically, and you've got mob rule. Run the site elitistly (e.g. with a Discussion Table) and you can easily get an "oligarchy" where insiders recommend one another and suppress everyone else.

Maybe we need an electoral college.

Tom:

Excellent and well-thought out post Tom. I like a ratings system in the abstract but I think it is only as good as the level of maturity and good faith in the audience. Otherwise it becomes the same kind of tool that the recommended button at the new Cafe has become. Could you imagine a ratings system during this campaign?

Bruce

Here's my request to old-timers. While I agree that the old cafe had some good features that should be incorporated into the new one, I think that some of what drives you is an understandable nostalgia for what was. But I suspect that what you miss about the old cafe was determined as much by the members as by the features, and that can't be reclaimed without drastically reducing the current membership.

It's also important to acknowledge that though many of us may be new to the cafe (or at least newly active in the cafe), TPM has had a parallel membership running around in the threads ever since election central and muckraker were launched, and in many ways, it was the merger of the cafe and the threads that created such massive changes in the cafe content and membership. (Also, the bitterly contested primaries.)

So in adding features to the new cafe, I think it's important to pay attention to the fact the membership is different now and some of the features that were helpful in the old cafe (such as downrating) may not work as well in the new environment, and that our goal not should be to return to the old cafe but to bring what was best about it, the intelligence and integrity (imo), to the new one.

Here's my main gripe: when I post a blog entry, I should use editing buttons for html tags, like em or links, but when I post a comment, I can enter raw html. The frustrating thing is that I sometimes type raw html into a blog, and then my blog post looks silly. The edit box for comments should have the same functionality as the edit box for blog posts, so I eventually learn one system and that's it. It's too confusing to have to enter links in comments one way, and links in blog posts another.

Personally, I'd like it if I could enter raw html and the site would accept it, for both blogs and comments. But I could see where you might not want to expose that to all posters. So perhaps you could have a setting on the profile page to choose between the little buttons or raw html.

Support of the table tag would be nice, too.

But even if there's more limited html than the comments currently allow, so long as the comments and blog posting boxes had the same functionality, that would be a distinct improvement.

I just posted this comment on Cypher's new blog on the workings of TPM:

...Why doesn't TPM have a technical issues page?

I know, I know, TPM's concept is supposed to be free of the normal guidelines for the confused and inexperienced, but come on, you elitists! If we're at the point where there's always one or two blogs about TPM's innards, I think ya'll should consider adding such a thing to your "about" page or something.

There have been technical-issues blogs lately on the recommended and recent lists. Wouldn't it be nice to use those spots for political blogs instead of the (very valuable) exchange of ideas on website mechanics? We have the technology...we can make it better! Including making it better outside the political debates!

Your number 1

Full access to all posts and comments of any member

is truly number 1 to me.

Having that is a key way for people with different tastes to seek out what they want in a forum.

Many often note how much of a problem anonymous posting is on the internet. Well, without a user having posting history lasting more than a day, everyone is a lot more anonymous, and newbies just see chaos. (As to the latter point, it would be good to get rid of the ability for people to constantly change their screen name, that adds to chaos, allowing only insiders to "get" any joke going on.)