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The Magic of May 20
There's a curious pas de deux being danced this afternoon. Hillary Clinton is vowing to stay in the race "until there's a nominee." That's unsurprising; her determination hasn't wavered thus far, and her promise gives the appearance of steely resolve while retaining just enough ambiguity to allow her to exit whenever she pleases. Yet it's worth wondering what she thinks her continued candidacy can achieve.
The Obama campaign, meanwhile, is doing everything it can to persuade superdelegates to come down off the fence and endorse him. It's looking to its donors for a new wave of support. To these groups, the argument is unambiguous - the race is essentially over. And the campaign is shifting its focus to John McCain.
Others have reached the same conclusion. Countless pundits are declaring a nominee today. Former Clinton supporters like George McGovern are calling for Hillary to quit. But on that subject, there's an eerie silence from Chicago. And surrogates like Claire McCaskill are adamant on the point: "I think it would be inappropriate, awkward and wrong for any of us to tell Sen. Clinton when it is time for this race to be over."
Now that's more than a little strange. Why is the Obama camp prepared to tell everyone that the race is over - everyone, that is, except the one person who could actually end it?
And the mystery deepens. Because while the Obama campaign thinks it would be a travesty to force Hillary from the race today, it's devoting a huge amount of effort to convince the public and the media that she ought to quit on May 20th. That's the date, the campaign says, when it will have the majority of the pledged delegates. David Plouffe called that "an incredibly important moment in the campaign." And that, Obama's folks argue, is the moment when the race will be over.
Most pundits seem prepared to accept this. Obama, they believe, is being typically gracious and positive. He doesn't want to alienate Hillary's loyal supporters by pushing her out; and since he's already won, he doesn't have to. He'll wait until the party coalesces around him, and Hillary will then read the writing on the wall and withdraw. The problem with this narrative is that it's nonsensical - there is nothing that will happen on May 20th that will fundamentally alter the race.
There's something else that's driving both these candidates in their decisions, and that's the forthcoming primaries in West Virginia and Kentucky. Obama is going to lose those primaries. And it's going to be ugly - the current polling shows roughly 30-point leads in each state. That will narrow somewhat, but they'll still be tough losses for him to absorb. The fact that they're widely anticipated will help - as will Obama's presumptive victory on May 20th in the far larger state of Oregon.
But pause and consider, for a moment, what would happen if Hillary were to withdraw from the race this evening. Her name would still be on the ballot a week from now in West Virginia. And the odds are excellent that she'd still win - at the very least, she'd pull an impressive chunk of the vote. Obama can absorb the hit of losing rural, southern states to Hillary - but losing those states after she's withdrawn is another matter entirely. Once there's a presumptive nominee, he's supposed to win. And if he loses, that's troubling. At the very moment when the party is supposed to coalesce behind him, the media will be consumed with concern that Obama can't unify the party, can't reach out to white working class voters. It's a nightmare scenario that's almost certainly keeping Plouffe and Axelrod awake at night.
Hillary, on the other hand, looks forward to those two states for validation. She doesn't want to go out like this, after a pair of disappointing primaries. She wants the clout that victories will confer; she wants to be the tribune of the white working class. Whatever her plans for the future - whether she wishes to be the vice-presidential nominee, to run again in 2012, or to become a force in the senate - winning WV and KY can only help. And after all she's been through, there's remarkably little cost to soldiering on for another two weeks.
So it serves both candidates' interests to continue the battle a little while longer. The next few races are unlikely to be as divisive. Hillary will camp out in West Virginia; Obama is likely to contest it only perfunctorily - he'll train his sights on McCain, and work on pulling in the superdelegates, instead. He won't try to end the race until he reaches another highpoint - with KY and WV safely behind him, he can use his win in Oregon and the arbitrary milestone of a pledged delegate lead to declare victory, or at least to provide enough cover to the remaining superdelegates to achieve the same result.
So we'll go through the motions for another two weeks, because that way, everyone wins. Just don't believe that there's something magical about May 20th - all that date marks is the end of Obama's exposure to political embarrassment.
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Comments (63)
flyonthewall -
did you happen to read Markos post last night, where he said he wanted Hillary to stay in so Oregon would push him over the pledged delegate majority.
What do you think?
May 7, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I kind of butchered what Markos said:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/6/221033/3197/107/510437
Hillary, don't drop out! (yet)
by kos
Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:12:26 PM PDT
If Clinton were to drop out this week, we'd face an uncomfortable situation in West Virginia, with Clinton likely crushing Obama. That would look terrible for the presumptive nominee.
Better than that would be to garner enough superdelegate commitments this week, so that Oregon can push Obama past 2,024. That way, it isn't the supers who clinch it for Obama, but actual voters.
May 7, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Your candidate has won. Clinton will try to clear her campaign debt and play on through Kentucky and Oregon using a unity against McCain theme.
Over the next several months Clinton will do her part to unify the party. If she does so, the least the Obama supporters can do is not blame her when he loses somewhere between Dukasis and McGovern.
May 7, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
WHO'S PICKING UP THE DRYCLEANING BILL?
We got 123 pantsuits here and we don't take checks.
McCains Cleaners
Obama/iPod '08
May 8, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
What makes you so sure Limbaugh et al won't hand Clinton a marvellous result in Oregon? I feel sick thinking about what he's going to do with the remaining primaries to change the narrative
May 7, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rush already waffled himself into the toaster,\, he's spun himself so deep in his own ditto doodoo (doodooheads?) the rest of the wingers are running from him like they did with the Michael J. Fox phantasms. Rush is one of our greatest ass-ets, he brings the sneaks and cheaters out of the woodwork for the others to cringe at.
Rush almost singlehandedly won Missouri for us Dems in 2006, lets give him all the rope he needs to hang McCain for us this time around.
And lest we forget, Rush has enough stupid, backpedalling, contradictory and false statements out there that the only credibility he retains is in pill form.
May 8, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jaba the Rush
May 8, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
To be honest, I hadn't - but that post makes a succinct case for letting Clinton stay in another two weeks, and I think that today, we're watching the Obama campaign adopt precisely that strategy.
May 7, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
And, with the help of Google, I'm discovering that I'm far from the only one currently making this point. Marc Ambinder has 7 reasons why Clinton should stay in the race, including:
I find that denial unconvincing. What's the guy supposed to say - "Yes, we're terrified that he'll get crushed, and we'd like her to stick around"? But if the measure of a ripe idea is that it occurs to a whole bunch of people at once, then this a meme whose time has come.
May 7, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that plan is very important. Let a state push the nominee over the top. Having the superdelegates do that final act may appear unseemly. Avoid that whole scenario, everyone be patient, and pop open the bubbly on a late May 20 evening (on the east coast)!
Peace
May 7, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fly, as usual, a very logical and reasonable analysis. As a matter of fact, at this very minute I just heard A. B. Stoddard from The Hill on MSNBC saying exactly the same thing - that she will most like stay in through WV and Kentucky and bow out on a high note and at that point work to unite the party. She said that if Clinton decides to take it to Denver the superdelegates will, at that point, step in and end it. I sincerely hope that you and she are right.
May 7, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the real SD movement is the week after Oregon, because the pledged majority is a real milestone, and is Pelosi's and Carter's decision rule. Everything you said about WV & KY supports this. And I don't think the SDs feel the need to wait to see Barack win two more small western states, nor do they care about PR, nor should they.
The only thing cutting against your analysis is the Michigan/Florida May 31 foodfight being in HRC's talking points and interest, and she puts her interest above the party's and Obama's as a rule. However, Obama's folks seem to be offering her cover by offering a plan to seat them, and if the SD stream broadens after OR, allowing Obama to be magnanimous on FL and MI, that all comes together then just as you say.
May 7, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
articleman:
You'll have to explain that one to me. If you and I can sit here today and state with absolute certainty that Obama will have the majority of pledged delegates by the end of the race (and we can) then why wait until May 20 ratifies the inevitable? It's an arbitrary milestone - introduced just a couple weeks ago by the Obama campaign. No previous race has ever used it as a benchmark. I can, off the top of my head, think of three or four other markers that have equal validity (e.g., 2024 delegates, superdelegate lead). Its utility, I think, is that it's measurable, it sounds concrete, and it won't happen for another two weeks.
And yes, Hillary would like to seat Michigan and Florida. It's in her interest to do so. But it'd be pretty easy for her to broker a deal before withdrawing, over the next two weeks. Since there's no longer any doubt about the outcome, the Clinton campaign can afford to compromise - and still be seen by the grateful citizens of MI and FL as their rescuers. I expect to hear of a deal being struck right around May 20.
May 7, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The explanation is easy:
We've known since well before yesterday that Obama would hit the majority of the pledged, certainly after Pennsylvania. By the logic that knowing it should lead to a stampede, the stampede would already have happened. Not so. Stampedes don't follow losses.
And Nancy Pelosi has known for weeks, if not months, that Obama would win the majority of pledged. But she set that marker down (the pledged majority milestone) far in advance of the wave rolling over it, so that it would provide a rationale, and cover, for the SDs looking for a trigger. And it's a victory. SDs want to follow some sort of victory, though of course Oregon provides one, though a smaller one than NC.
Random thoughts: the Obama campaign put the pledged marker out soon after Super Tuesday.
It is artificial. It's kind of the refutation of what superdelegates are. But 2025 is the alpha and omega.
The psychology of the supers is so Clinton-psyche driven it's unreal. Any other candidate and they would have migrated two months ago and ended this, or so party insiders say privately.
Not trying to be argumentative, your UAD post was the best nuts and bolts political piece I've read this season, and I really appreciate how you engage at such a level of detail.
May 7, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thank you for your considered reply.
I'll grant that if the superdelegates are indeed hanging back, then it makes sense for the Obama campaign to peg the end of the race to their next victory, in two weeks time.
But I think there's good reason to believe that there has been a stampede, or at the very least a dramatic shift, and that the Obama campaign is deliberately slowing down its release of endorsements. That's how Stephanopolous was able to announce yesterday that the campaign would be rolling out supers in threes, fours, and fives - because it's got them lined up already. There's a piece out this morning that further bolsters this idea. It quotes campaign guru Tad Devine:
We've seen that throughout the race. And, given the vocal dissaffection of any number of prominent Clinton supporters over the past two days, it stands to reason that uncommitted supers can also read the writing on the wall. It's possible, as Devine speculates, that Obama doesn't want to be seen as pushing Clinton from the race. I'm sure there's something to that. But I suspect he really, really doesn't want to force her out before West Virginia goes to the polls.
May 8, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Camp Obama releases SDs the day after losses. It is clearly reserving some specifically for post WV.
We heard about the 50 after Texas who never materialized, and Zogby postulated 30 to come in 48 hours after NC, won't happen. Hope you're right, either way, they'll be with us soon.
May 8, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our primary (Oregon) is not this week, but concludes on the 20th, we have vote by mail and almost everyone has their ballots already (mine is already filled out and in the hands of my counties election office.
So the SDs this week are not after Oregon.
If you mean you hope the over-the-top tsunami of SDs should happen on May 21st, I agree, though a clear steady stream of a few a day between now and then will help.
Not enough to see it as the SDs throwing the race before WV and KY, but enough to signal to the Clinton campaign this really is over and that the only nuclear option for her poetical life will be to go medieval on McCain.
May 7, 2008 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
if Hillary truly cares about just the principle of seating the MI and FL delegations, if her insistence on this point is selfless and noble as she pretends --- then there is an easy way. she can just drop out now, then it won't be a problem. that will make it much easier to find a solution.
May 7, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good analysis. I had not read Kos' post on the subject.
Very good. I'd like to see him spend some time there, engage a little, and show his ground game. Tighten it up just a little.
But very astute.
The question is, however: how much damage can Hillary do in the meantime?
May 7, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fly,
Good post. But unless I'm mistaken, Kentucky is larger than Oregon.
May 7, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forgive the error. While Oregon awards 52 pledged delegates to Kentucky's 51, the difference is not as great as my post suggested. And yes, the latter state is more populous - but it edge of half a million residents is erased by the complicated delegate apportionment math which rewards states that vote blue.
May 7, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it would be best for Obama to avoid the damage of losing an uncontested race, but I'm not sure how lasting the damage would be. There would not be "election night" coverage on cable news for an uncontested primary, WV would be held no more than one or two days after Clinton drops out, and Kentucky would be off-set by a big win in Oregon. So while I think it would be best for Clinton to stick around through the 20th, I'm not sure how big a hit Obama would take for losses up to that point.
After all, McCain actually lost a couple primaries to zombie Huckabee and it didn't resonate that much. People are only just starting to kinda, sorta realize that 25-30 percent of Republicans are still choosing to vote against McCain.
May 7, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
And there's a reason for that. The evangelical rejection of McCain doesn't fit neatly into any media narrative, and it's not expected to presage difficulties for him in November. Rightly or wwrongly, no one expects large-scale defections of dissatisfied conservative and evangelical voters to Obama.
But the media has spent the past two months obsessing about Obama's supposed inability to win over white, working-class voters. They scrutinize exit polls for signs of this failing even when the evidence is incredibly weak. If he were to lose WV and KY to a former candidate, it wouldn't be a one-day story - it'd confirm a persistent narrative. The media has been suggesting for months that a black guy from Chicago can't win over the white working class, and that these voters may become McCain Democrats. And there's nothing the media likes more than a factual nugget that fits neatly into an established storyline.
May 7, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. McCain's problems with the evangelical and conservative base was a pretty consistent story-line, though I grant you it did not receive nearly the attention of Obama's "difficulties" with the Bubba vote.
In the end, I think it is a story that Obama would do best to avoid, but I don't think it will get a big boost if the KY and WV elections are uncontested rather than contested.
May 7, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
May 7, 2008 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded.
May 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree.
And just today Hillary was sayin the same shit - that women and blue collar workers are all voting for her (therefore by extension, they won't vote for him because he's Black which is the entire theme of her campaign.)
So it looks to me like it's going to be campaign as usual.
And I have no idea which is better - let her keep this up and wait til all the voting settles, like some are sayin - or just saying - enough.
and letting WV and KY vote for the noncandidate. I don't really think it hurts that much when he isn't expected to win.
But it's not my call.
May 7, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
But you also have to remember that a portion of Oregon's ballots were filled out and sent in before last night. We have vote-by-mail here. So our primary has already been going on, it simpy concludes on the 20th.
So even if Clinton dropped out as far and as hard as possible, a portion of her Oregon supporters already voted for her and there is zero way for her name to not appear in WV, KY and here in Oregon were we have already voting since last week.
May 7, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, nice avatar.
May 8, 2008 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your Walter is much brighter and clearer.
May 8, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's over the line.
May 8, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fly's right about it being in both candidates' interest that she stay on till May 20.
I'd suggest, however, that Obama may do better in W.Va. and Kentucky than he's been polling till now, because:
1) there's less incentive to vote for someone who's been declared DOA by all the media.
2) if she's any kind of realist, she must feel less incentive to run a bruising, last-ditch campaign.
3) she doesn't have the cash to do much anyway.
If I were Obama, I'd actually advertise and maybe even campaign in those states (on an anti-McCain platform, not anti-Hillary).
Test out a few general-election, Joe Lunchpail themes. See if he can beat the spread.
Nobody expects him to win there, so it's sort of a free throw, no?
Then top it off with a blowout in Oregon.
May 7, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone's May 20 goals can be accomplished without Clinton continuing to pound on Obama. If she continues with the "he listens to experts, I listen to you" stuff, and her surrogates continue with the "he has no balls" stuff, then the benefits of avoiding that embarrassment are outweighed. Not to mention that she's spending real money to do this.
One other quibble: if by some chance she isn't aiming at a May 20 departure date, we can expect to hear two solid weeks of arguments that Obama isn't getting the pledged delegate lead on the 20th because his majority doesn't count MI and FL. To the extent these arguments gain traction, the handy excuse that Oregon will provide for fence sitters to jump will be put in doubt. The next concrete milestone would be June 3, when the last of the votes is finished.
I hope you're right, Fly. But I fear this goes to June, just as her campaign has promised.
May 7, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point, Merle.
Recall how at the time of Huckabee's and Romney's concessions, there was plenty of talk from Republicans how McCain was not "conservative" enough for them, and they would never vote for him en masse. Notice how you don't hear that too much anymore?
I agree with part of the guesswork in this post - namely that Senator Clinton will not concede before WV and KY. However, I would be surprised if top-tier Obama campaign staff hold secret hope she does not concede, as part of some misguided notion that her campaign somehow helps Obama by blunting his losses in those states. The sooner she's out, the sooner Clinton supporters head back to the fold, the sooner Obama can square-off against McCain, and the sooner he can don the shining mantle of "nominee".
May 7, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pretty nifty thinking FOTW. One of the reasons I'd like to see it over sooner is here:
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=415
But your argument (if indeed this is what both camps are thinking) is pretty strong.
May 7, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you.
May 7, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary dropped out, why couldn't Obama concede KY and WV in advance "as an acknowledgment of the great work Senator Clinton did campaigning there" or some such platitude? It would be conciliatory and gracious to Clinton, save him the embarrassment of losing, and allow him to focus on uniting the party and going after McCain rather than devoting time and resources to elections he isn't going to win anyway.
He can frame WV and KY votes as "input from Democratic voters" that he will listen to in the months ahead. Sure this won't stop the media concern trolling about his demographics nontroversy, but taking control of the narrative is the sword with which the Obama campaign can cut this particular Gordian knot.
May 7, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I want to see Obama campaign there. I think it's important preliminary work for the General Election. He's got the cash, he needs to get on the ground there and work the local grassroots networks, meet people face-to-face, develop his message. Regardless of what Hillary decides to do, Obama needs to be out there in full campaign mode in both WV and KY.
May 7, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
This implies that she's given up. Could be, but I'm not sure that I believe that. If she's given up but is staying for the sake of validation, I expect that she'll let up on the negative attacks and offer more conciliatory messages in the next couple of weeks. Time will tell.
If she does ease off, I agree with you that it would be good for Obama and for the party for her to concede after May 20th, both for the reasons you offered and because I think that the pledged delegate count is a milestone of sorts, a statement that Obama is the chosen candidate of the voters, which may help to avoid the perception among Clinton supporters that she has been forced out before all the voters have spoken.
But whether by conceding or by changing her message, I think that it's really important that she back off from the race and economic polarizing strategy that she's been pursuing.
May 7, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm... Your spiffy lapels aside, you may have a point:
...albeit an incomplete one. Why would she do that?
Let's face it - everyone involved is a politician, so let's follow the money, shall we? Now the way I understand campaign financing rules, there are some candidate donations that are only allowed to be used for the primaries, and some which are reserved for the GE. My understanding is that Obama still has a ton of dough that can only be spent in the primaries.
I also understand that Clinton is pretty deeply in debt.
Soooo... if Clinton doesn't concede, she'll have the opportunity to get more donations to pay down her debt. And Obama, having already really won, can coast against Clinton (quite possibly with her complicity), and use the remaining primaries to launch his major assault against McCain - but without having to dip into his GE warchest.
It's win/win - ASSUMING that Clinton goes along. Why wouldn't she? I've always thought she was a decent Party player - just maybe not so much this time around.
We'll know it by the campaign rhetoric. And the ad buys...
May 7, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Assume that she wants Obama to extinguish her debt.
How would she be acting?
She's be turning up the heat and threatening to take down the whole house of cards unless he agrees to her terms.
And what is she doing?
Aha.
Extortion 101.
May 8, 2008 6:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the blogosphere and the Obama camp is really on to something with this May 20th idea. My further hope is that on the night of the 20th, Obama and Clinton appear on the same stage for their victory speeches, and Clinton gives her speech, thanking everyone for a truly historic run for the presidency, and announces her endorsement and introduction of the next president of the US, Barack Obama, to make his victory/acceptance speech.
Here's to wishful thinking... but I think this would have an enormous effect by making a huge jump in bridging the divide of this party. Not to mention the media would eat it up for breakfast.
May 7, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention that this also gives Obama a platform to have a 'confetti night.' His just winning a couple of superdelegates in early June that put him over the top is not what we need as a kickoff to the general election campaign.
May 7, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to add that there is a danger inherent in merely believing that KY and WV are going to be embarrassing. His own supporters are giving ammo to the press and GOP should Clinton withdraw suddenly, perhaps in an attempt to use those elections to try and force a VP offer.
She can stay in if she wants to- it's clear she has already conceded the nomination itself in spirit- but let's not allow the narrative of Clinton wins in KY and WV as being inherently ugly for Obama to gain traction. He should get a significant bump coming off of Tuesday, and lord knows he's got the funding to back a media blitz.
He should run the same way whether Hillary is in or out- attentive to demographics he is trying to make inroads with in the future, focussed on McCain, but with no illusions that he will have enough time to win them.
May 7, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only thing wrong with your post is that Obama has already alienated Hillary supporters. Those polls that say large percentages of her supporters won't vote for Obama should be taken seriously. My favorite moments of alienation were when he joined in the outcry about Hillary's LBJ remark. The other was when her called her Annie Oakley. On that one he couldn't even spin that he was responding to one of her attacks.
Don't worry. I'm voting for him. I can't stand him, but that's nothing compared to what I feel about Republicans. But do worry about a lot of Hillary supporters. And hint: you won't attract them with posts like this one. Too obvious.
May 7, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aw, c'mon now.....the Annie Oakley remark was totally deserved.
May 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
glad to learn that you will vote for BO. regarding other hillary supporters, i wonder whether one is a true Democrat if by spite, he/she will indeed vote Republican. It is a childish behavior, don't you think?
The two parties have completely different ideals/platforms. How could anyone be participating in Democratic primaries if they are okay with Republican value system. that does not make sense to me.
the greatness of democracy is that the will of the people carries the day, whether that will is popular by just one delegate (for this race) or by one vote. i believe that Hillary supporters will support Barack.
May 8, 2008 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's over zealous newbies have been rude, to say the least, but what were all of us like at that age, as new and enthusiastic activists?
When we went forth to vote for McGovern in 72, me and my fellow college Dems were raucus, rude and revelling in our certitude. We considered all adversaries, Republican or Democrat, to be "the enemy" and acted like it was a high-school football game. Heady times, and I regret much of it because of the division it fomented in our party. But I will never regret finally taking a stand for what I believed in, and that far outweighs the negatives.
I think Hillary's supporters are much more offended by those supporters than they are with Obama's very classy and carefully measured approach.
It is not fair, nor is it intelligent, to judge a candidate by their most loyal (rabid?) supporters. Anyone who thinks ANY campaign has a tight rein on that open-source, unpredictable buckin' bronco hasn't been involved in politics very long.
All of us need to embrace and enable that new force in American politics. It would be much wiser to tame that raging pony, than let it get away because we weren't ready to ride.
May 8, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I fear you mistake my purpose. I post at TPM to offer analysis, not advocacy - readers are welcome to draw their own conclusions.
May 8, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillay supporters come in two colors, feminists and blue-collar workers.
The feminists will not allow McCain the opportunity to overturn Roe/Wade with the next two Supreme Court vacancies. They will hold their nose and vote for a man.
The blue-collar workers vote Republican in Nov and have since Nixon. Obama's attracting enough upper scale Republicans and Independents to offset those quislings. We're looking at a re-alignment of Depression Era proportions for both parties this year.
May 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post. If Hillary has an altruistic bone in her body, this make the most sense.
May 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry if I implied that Hillary's motives are altruistic. They're not, at least in the narrow sense, although she's certainly driven by her conviction that only she can win office and achieve real change for the American people.
My point was simply that until May 20, both candidates' interests are served by an ongoing primary battle. After that date, as Politico notes this morning, Obama will push to end this race. Hillary, on the other hand, may well wish it to continue. What happens on May 20/21 will largely be determined by what superdelegates decide over the next two weeks.
May 8, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is no deep mystery here, I think everyone arrived at the same conclusion. It just makes the post a bit more entertaining.
May 8, 2008 5:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The problem with this narrative is that it's nonsensical - there is nothing that will happen on May 20th that will fundamentally alter the race."
Correct... that fundamental alteration happened on February 5th, and everything since then has been superfluous.
May 8, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
"there is nothing that will happen on May 20th that will fundamentally alter the race"
Wrong! With Florida and Michigan votes not being counted on the first ballot at convention the magic number is not 2025, it is 1867 (a simple majority of votes cast). If the votes in WV, Ky, and Or go by today's polls Obama will have 1873 on May 20. The Nomination process will end that night, without any intervening change in the super delegate alignment.
Obama is not concentrating on McCain because it is time to begin the GE campaign (McCain is perfectly capable of hanging himself with more rope and no help from Obama). The strategy is to allow Clinton to focus on McCain instead of Obama for the next two weeks. If she does, she can rebuild some of the bridges she's burned.
The smell of cannon fire has drifted from Penn, Ohio and Indiana into lower NY state. Recent polls indicate Hillary would have a hard time holding on to her Senate seat. The time for her to quit championing the Republican wing of the Democratic Party is now if she wants to avoid the ultimate humiliation of losing her Senate seat too.
She is also 22 million in debt. That debt can be picked up by Obama's 1.5 million donor base - but only if that base is convinced that Hillary's support for the nominee will be unconditional. Imagine launching a Hillary Clinton Retirement Fund on the Obama site and not getting donations.
THe common wisdom is that Hillary has nothing to gain by continuing the contest. More important, she has everything to lose if she continues her campaign the way she's been waging it.
May 8, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her most ardent supports will not allow John McCain to appoint the next two Supreme Court justices - period.
May 8, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just got off the phone with our state party chairman. He is officially uncommitted. He's waiting for Obama to pass the 1867 mark before committing. He says that will give him the cover to make the commitment without alienating the Hillary camp in the state party (the Teacher's union). End of the day, he's got a party to run.
May 8, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
NPR analyst stated that if the contest continues Rep. 527's would have less time to "swift boat" the Dem candidate, because they would not know which one to attack. While they probably have warehouse storage of attacks they develped on Clinton they may have less time to attack BO. With Fly's reasoning, while I am ready to move forward,I think these are good reasons to delay till end of May, June.
May 8, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone here think that voters that had been leaning Clinton in WV and KY will now recognize that she is a lame duck, dead duck, duck...and move to Obama?
You would think that at least some of the local and state pols would start moving and lead the way.
May 8, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter. Indiana and N Carolina have voted solidly Republican in Nov since 92. Neither Obama or Clinton were destined to change that.
May 8, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the insight...
I really was having a hard time understanding the logic until I read this piece. Now it makes sense. She still needs to cut the race baiting crap though.
May 8, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Fly,
Thanks for neatly explaining this huge mystery in only like 1500 words! There's no way any of us could have figured these dynamics out without your helpful piece.
You're amazing, you know, I think there must be a mainstream job out there somewhere for you!
May 8, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kache --
Where does the 1867 come from?
Here are the figures I've been working with
WITHOUT FL and MI
Pledged delegates: 3253 (1/2 = 1626.5)
Super delegates: 793
Total delegates: 4046
Needed to win: 2024
WITH FL and MI
Pledged delegates: 3566 (1/2 = 1783)
Super delegates: 848
Total delegates: 4414
Needed to win: 2208
Those figures may have become inaccurate over time with loss of one or two SDs (e.g., Spitzer) but are they more or less accurate?
Per MSNBC, Obama currently has 1588 pledged delegates. To get the majority of pledged delegates without FL and MI, he needs to get 39 more. To get the majority of pledged delegates including FL (188 delegates) and MI (128 delegates), he needs to get 195 more.
If he got ~ 1/3 of the WV's 28 delegates (10) and ~ 1/3 of the KY's 51 delegates (17), then he would need only 12 of OR's 52 delegates and he's certain to get more. So the needed 39 will easily be there by May 20 and he'll have a majority of the pledged delegates WITHOUT FL and MI.
Assuming 1/3 from WV (10) and 1/3 from KY (17)and 60% OR (35), that would be a total of 62, still 133 short of the majority of pledged delegates WITH FL and MI. Getting one-half of each delegation would be more than enough (158).
What is Clinton's proposal re: the FL and MI pledged delegates? How many does she think she's entitled to from each of those states? Is there some way to satisfy, or mostly satisfty, her "claims" and still get Obama a total of 195 delegates between WV, KY, OR, FL and MI? If so, he'd be able to claim a majority of the pledged delegates, even if you include FL and MI, and that .... surely ... would be an end to it!
May 8, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
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