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"Sweetie" Happens To Men, Too

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So there I was, sitting in my car at the Burger King drive-thru this morning, just being my usual self - relaxing to Commodores tunes on the car stereo, and waiting to get my usual morning order of coffee and cheesy tots from the lady working the window register.  She was pleasant enough, and appeared to be in her mid-40s.

The lady handed me my coffee, and said, "OK, sweetie, if you could just pull up to the front and I'll get your tots right out to you, OK hon?"

As I am a political junkie, the word "sweetie" immediately induced a snap of the head.  I didn't give it much more thought than that, however.  I went to work, just like every weekday.

The night before, I couldn't make my usual chicken salad for lunch, as we had run out of baby spinach.  (I know, I'm such an elitist.)  So, a co-worker and I decided to drive to a Dairy Queen and get hamburgers. 

We went through the drive-thru, and placed our order.  The lady working the drive-through couldn't have been older than her late 20s.  As she handed me my order, she said, "Here you go, honey."

I pulled away and said to my friend, "That's the second time that's happened today."  Confused, he replied, "What happened?"  Then I explained the whole "sweetie"/"honey" thing.  

So, we were curious, and decided to test the theory.  We went to a grocery store, and I "accidentally" walked across the path of a lady walking her cart down the store's main aisle.  I apologized profusely as I passed her by.  She reached out, patted my cart, and said, "That's okay, dear."

Now I was really starting to wonder.  When we returned to work, I made a point of stopping to talk to two co-workers with whom I didn't usually speak.  These were both women in their 20s. 

I got big smiles from both of them, and a punch in the bicep from one, along with an admonition to "stop by and see me more often!"

This is probably a good time to mention that I'm in my mid-30s (wow, that feels weird to type), 5'11", and 300 pounds.  I wear a size 12 wedding band that's pretty prominent, and I have a face that is made for radio. 

Maybe I look like I have money, but my Movado was a wedding gift, and the Audi A6 I drive was only bought as a result of an older lady selling her amazingly well-kept car on the cheap.  (Come to think of it, she called me "honey", too.)

So, about the only thing I have in common with Denzel Washington is that we both checked the "African-American" box on our financial aid forms.

A few questions nagged at me all day.  After a long think, which helped me succeed mightily in my ultimate aim of procrastinating on writing my testing scripts, I settled on the following answers.

Do I do anything to make people approach me that way?  I don't think I do.  I try to be polite, and say "please", "thank you", etc.  I don't use "terms of endearment" myself, except with my wife. 

Am I offended?  The level of familiarity in those comments is a bit off-putting.  However, the fact that I didn't even pay attention to this until after the Obama flap makes me wonder how many times I've missed this.

Should I be offended?  This is a touchy question.  As a general rule, I try not to take offense to anything unless it's a direct personal insult.  I can understand why someone might be offended, but I decided I wasn't.  After all, those women could have called me a lot of other things.

What does this say about society in general, and the recent incident in Michigan where Barack Obama called a reporter "sweetie' in particular?  Honestly, I'm not sure.  Maybe there's no societal parallel at all.  Maybe they liked my Aqua Velva or Lagerfeld Photo.  Maybe they thought I was a nice guy.  Maybe I just ran across the only five women in the Pittsburgh area who address men that way.  I don't know.  What I am certain of, though, is that none of them meant to offend me. 

Now, I admit that I don't know how it feels to be addressed that way as a woman.  I can also understand why women may well take greater offense to being addressed (diminished?) in that way.  The false premise of male superiority is certainly something all women must deal with in some form, no matter what their aspirations.

However, surely at least one these women mentioned above (all of whom, by the way, were white; I'm stating it here only for the sake of full disclosure) might take offense to me using similar affectations with them.

So, is this considered acceptable when women do it, but sexist or degrading when men do it?  I don't know the answer to that question either.

The only thing I know for certain is that some women use overly familiar terms of address with men, just as some men do with women.  These women might not be up on the very latest in PC greetings, but I wouldn't brand them as being objectionable based on their outmoded - but hospitable - manner of greeting. 

All of which is to say that I think we can all be a bit hypersensitive.  Of course, one person's excessively high dudgeon is another person's offensive sense of humor, and in this election season, the two positions have crossed innumerable times.  

Thanks for reading, and you can call me whatever you want.  Well, except for "big guy".  


Comments (85)

I have similar experiences all the time and was going to write a post on this, but you beat me to it and did it well. Actually, I'm more offended when some loud, greasy-haired sales guy calls me "Buddy" or "Skip." But your point is dead-on.

I have a habit of calling a lot of my coworkers "Hon" (short for honey) and I think it's because I'm older than a lot of my coworkers.

I'm only 43 (well, 44 in less than six months) but a lot of my coworkers are in their 20's.

Sometimes I call people "sweetie" (if I'm in a good mood and I agree with what they have to say) and sometimes I call people "sunshine" (if I'm feeling snarky and I'm not sure I agree with what they have to say).

Sometimes I'm called "Ma'am", and I'm not really sure I like that, because I don't feel old enough (in my heart, if not my bones) to be called "Ma'am", yet.

But I will never, ever forget the time I had a shorter hairstyle and wore a jeans jacket to the local supermarket and the bag boy said, "Sir, do you want me to bag your cigarettes or do you want to carry them?"

Man, did that suck. I'd really rather he'd have called me "Sweetie".


I can't imagine you being mistaken for a "sir"!

In Texas, women often use terms of endearment in the workplace, but it's very rare to hear a man do it. I like saying "sweetie" and "darlin'" and I enjoy hearing it--from women, that is.

I think it's a gender thing in the South. I'm trying to think of a situation in which an unfamiliar male addresses me as "sweetie" or "honey" that wouldn't offend me or at least make me feel creepy. I can't think of any! Every example I imagine has the feel of condescension or creepy sexual connotation.

Gads. I'm sexist!

I would've agreed except for my boss.

My boss is like no other boss. I've had my share of bad ones, believe me. But my current boss is 18 years older than me and he has two daughters who are both in their 20's.

My boss calls me "Sweetie" when he's in a good mood, and I like it because that's what he calls his daughters.

My boss calls me his "erstwhile Secretary" when he's annoyed at me (and he has good reason, since I'm always reading political blogs at work when I should be doing other stuff), and I still like it, because he winks in a conspirational way when he says it.

My boss is a huge-hearted wonderful man with a sense of humor that rivals Mel Brooks'. My boss is the kindest and most understanding boss I've ever had.

Consider me lucky. Consider me blessed.

I do.

And I don't mind being called Sweetie in the least.

Well, maybe you guys really are sweet and dear.

This is a good post. Inflection for me is big. I've had guys toss off a 'sweetie' or 'dear' at me and ignored it...I have loads more other REAL stuff in my life that worth getting upset over than a word. But inflection...if it's said sneeringly, it's on. There's a slight race factor involved: I can not stand a white woman to say it to me, because it seems so plantation...but if they're obviously in their 50s (I'm 35) I'll ignore it. Young white women who aren't my best friend...don't go there. About 6 years ago, I worked with this 19 year old maniuplative asshat who called everyone 'sweetie' or 'hon'. She called her boss pumpkin. I told her straight up, "I have a name, I expect you to use it." If she was 30 years old, I'd have let her get away with it. Grudgingly.

My Arab/Middle Easter, Pakistani and Indian "aunties" can call me whatever they want. A black woman can call me whatever she wants--with black women, I actually defer to them, "Yes, ma'am", "No ma'am" and the like. I couldn't call any of these women by their first names. The older black women are known as Ms. whateverhernameis and the others are Auntie whateverhernameis.

Latina women...I'm 35 years old and I'm still being called mija. I roll with it, but this afternoon the lady at the store called me mija and she looked younger than me. I almost said something...man, at least call me ruca, usted oye?

This is to point out the extenuating circumstances: inflection, race, age, and location. I think there should be sense of professionalism. If it was up to me, these terms would be banned in a work environment and never with customers. But at a party, the mosque, informal settings...I'll let it slide and wait for the day I can be condescending and call everyone dandybottom or sweetcheeks and they can't say a thing because I'll be old, son!

you're funny. ;)

I like reading your posts.

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Let me guess, you voted for Obama because he's the "most qualified" candidate, right?

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I did. More legislative experience. Less mistakes in voting against ur best interests (see AUMF, Kyl-Lieberman). Qualified to make more independent judgments being more free of corporate donors, republican leaning lobbyists (see Hillary, Inc) and other paybacks owed. But if you want to continue to talk about qualified, we can bring in Biden, McCain and a host of others to complete the point that she doesnt have a corner on the "qualified" market.

Wow, I suggest you get a system. Or at least I hope (because you listed this one first) that you put inflection first.

I'm a 20 year old white woman, and I don't have a habit of calling people 'sweetie', but if I did, there wouldn't be anything 'plantation' about it.

But, I'm comfortable enough in knowing I'm not a racist to tell you this straight up: broadly speaking, white people fear the identity politics you're talking about more than anything else. Now, I can't speak for white people you've encountered, or the vast majority of white people for that matter, but many of those I've been with suffer from severe 'liberal white guilt' and step into pretty much any situation with someone outside their race (and because of the terrible history, this goes super double for black people) praying they'll get out waving a 'NOT RACIST' card and jumping for joy. It's part of the reason these talks are rare and there is such a lack of talk that Obama addressed in his speech, and it's part of the reason I'm so dedicated to breaking down this idea that 'because your skin color is this, it means this'.

If I was with a person with this labeled color of skin and they were this age I'd do this, If it was someone with this labeled color of skin and age I'd do this...you'd have to carry an organizer to keep all that straight. This kind of thinking is out of date and doesn't counter for all the progress people have tried to make in these areas nor does it account for people who have come from other countries. What would you say to a young white woman who called you sweetie, was white, and came here when they were in 11th grade for instance, but you didn't know this? Would you jump down her throat for her plantation style rhetoric?

My method: Give the benefit of the doubt of no ill intention even if it is offensive, but then correct. Don't be a jerk unless it persists, but always investigate.

*get a new system*

And also, I do call one person 'sweetie' and that's my boyfriend. He calls me 'honey', and got into the habit of calling me 'baby' but hated himself for it because he couldn't justify the terrible connotations that come with it. So we talked it out and went on to fight bigger battles on the political front. =-D

So apparently, you didn't read my post. The entire point of it was that there were considerations to be made. Duh.

Your post: "This is to point out the extenuating circumstances: inflection, race, age, and location."

My post: "Wow, I suggest you get a *new* system. Or at least I hope (because you listed this one first) that you put inflection first."

These were the considerations you mentioned that I supposedly didn't mention in my post.

Except that I did. Right there.

*clears throat*

"DUH".

Now please, go on.

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Obama use of the term sweetie to a female reporter showed that he was thinking of her as female rather than as a reporter. There is no chance that he would have used such language to a male reporter or, indeed, to any man he respected.

It is not the over-familiarity that is at issue, it is the lack of respect. And the fact, that Obama did not get it that this was the issue: treating a female reporter as though she were a child.

Double standard.

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Plus, the reporter was being petulant. I, personally, would have called her "sirrah."

Yes, I'm that condescending to the people I'm sarcastic to.

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How was the reporter being petulant? By asking questions which is her job?

If you watch the video you'll see what Scalfin means. I would say it was petulant.

Another question: What if it was a male reporter and Obama said 'buddy' instead of 'sweetie.' Is that offensive?

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Actually, I think BevD is right on the money here. It was condescending and dismissive - there's no doubt about that - and it wouldn't have happened to a male reporter. And yes, had Obama said "buddy," I imagine the reporter would've taken afront. But there's a world of difference between the connotations of "sweetie," in a sexist world, and "buddy" - let's not equate the two. It's akin to "petulant" - would you really have used that word to describe a male reporter filing a similar story?

That said, let me pose a question I haven't seen asked. The reporter, Peggy Agar, was covering an event at a factory. There was a bank of cameras following Obama around the plant, shooting B-roll. In other words, the press was allowed in to film his interaction with the workers - they were supposed to be recording the story, not inserting themselves into it. But Peggy Agar wanted a little glory. So she pushed her way to the front, and shouted out a classic TV question: "Senator, what are you going to do to help American autoworkers?"

That's not how this game is played. If any reporter could get a question answered by shouting it out in front of a dozen cameras during an event, there would be total chaos - candidates would never be able to talk to actual voters over the cacophony from the assembled press. There's a protocol, an etiquette to this -media organizations shoot B-Roll during events, and in return, the candidate agrees to answer their questions later on. In fact, WZYX, Agar's employer, had such an interview already arranged. But Agar, who ranks fairly low on the totem pole at the station, wasn't given the prestigious assignment of conducting the interview. Instead, she was told to follow the candidate around the factory, in case he did or said anything newsworthy, so that she could contribute to the report that would be assembled from the footage.

Obama's a pro. He could tell he was dealing with a local reporter, who was either in over her head, or deliberately breaking the rules to sieze her fifteen minutes of fame. So quite reasonably, he brushed off her question, and very politely told her that they'd be doing an availability later on. But for that one word - "sweetie" - Agar would come off as the villain in this affair, and probably would have gotten a little lecture from her supervisors for breaking the rules and thereby jeopardizing the station's access. But Obama said it. He was wrong to say it. And suddenly, Agar had her very own news story, and her fifteen minutes of fame. Her gamble paid off.

So I think people are right to excoriate Obama for using a sexist term. But frankly, this reporter deserved to be condescended to as a reporter, though not as a woman. Her actions were either stupid or self-aggrandizing; I don't know which. And I wish at least a little of the attention here had focused on the fact that the entire incident was sparked by a reporter who was trying her damnedest to provoke Obama into saying something newsworthy, and got her wish. Not exactly a victim.

As usual, it pays to be a "Flyonthewall" in these situations. Thanks for the definitive take on this.

Why do I bother posting, I should just permalink to you, and be done with it!

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I took my use of the word "petulant" from the term "petulant child," as Obama has noted that he calls children (his, to be specific) "sweetie."

Bingo!!! ..as usual.

Wait. It's a good question, BevD; however, her being "petulant" or not isn't even relevant, is it? It's like asking a victim what s/he did to invite assault.

It doesn't matter what a woman's tone is, especially in a professional situation like the one here. The appropriate response shouldn't be anything that can be construed as an assertion of superiority over a "lesser."

I agree.

I like Obama and I'm usually inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not going to try to excuse his mistake here.

There are times when use of these terms of endearment are pleasant and not at all disrespectful. I actually enjoy being called sweetie and hon (chere in Louisiana) by friends, familiar co-workers, and even by strangers (usually female) in a retail or customer service type of situation.

But this particular incident was inappropriate because Obama is a powerful man who was addressing a woman who was not familiar with him, during the course of performing their respective jobs. This was a professional context, and the situation called for mutual respect in communication.

I don't know what truly motivated Obama in that instant--I certainly hope he simply made a mistake out of fatigue or innocent carelessness. Regardless of his motivation, the exchange could easily be construed as demeaning.

He did the right thing--he apologized.

When I talk to other guys I tend to use the words "dude" or "man." As in, "hold on dude" or "wait a second man." If I said, "hold on woman" to a female I'd get busted. But women don't seem to mind when I say, "hold on hon." We get used to talking a certain way and Obama was caught being too casual but when you think about what he would have said if that was a man, it would probably be "hold on man." So, now he knows not to be too casual but not too aloof or he'd be called an elitist. God, I'm so glad I'm not walking the same tightrope this man is.

Another non issue.

Here in Baltimore, "Hon" is so institutionalized it is even on the bumper stickers.

I read somewhere that waitresses were supposed to do certain things to glean a larger tip. Using pleasantries like "sweetie" was one of them. Touching the patron on the shoulder, and putting hearts on the bill-of-fare were others.

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Two points about the sweetie thing:

(1) I think there's a difference between being called sweetie when you're in the midst of doing your job and other times. For example, if you were preparing to give a presentation to management and your boss said, "Let's get started, sweetie," that'd be pretty inappropriate and probably undermining. Kinda depends on the people, of course, but generally speaking...

(2) Another thing the reporter complained about was that Obama didn't answer her question. Well, too bad, so sad! Politicians (and others) don't answer questions all the time. Sometimes they ignore a question, sometimes they answer only part of it, sometimes they answer a different question, sometimes they say straight out they're not going to answer it, etc. If you really want your question answered and think it should be, you try a different tack.

Anyway, I think Obama shouldn't call reporters sweetie -- male or female, and I think he recognizes that. He certainly gave a gracious apology.

The reason it is acceptable for women to do but not for men is because men are not threatened by women but women are by men. If women thought they were mens equals then they wound not be offended by trivia like this. It is just like blacks being offended by racial slurs and other ethnic groups not being sensitive to them. If you are confident of your status you are not woried about foolish name calling or language that is overly familiar.

Totally disagree with this. At least for me...I think and rather know that I'm better than any one. Or rather, let's just say, I don't think much of you unless you dazzle me and it takes a lot to impress me. So when people do these condescending things, it's not an inferiority complex (at least for me), it's a superiority complex...I mean, how dare these people think they're equal to me? On par...with me?

;P

I did not mention feelings of superiorority or inferiority. I mentioned feeling threatened. I am an atheist. I am sensitive to Christianist slights because Cristianists are a threat to me. I certainly believe that my belief system is superior to theirs and that I am as well. But they are over 80% of the population and we are some where between 8 and 15%. Their belief system says we are evil. They have historicaly had laws on the books that prevent us from giving testimony or serving on juries. Earlier their were laws that made us subject to criminal sanction. These are laws that their extreemist would clearly like to bring back.

Being called 'hon' or 'sweetie' bothers me not in the least because it is not a threat. Being wished a 'blesed' day by some Christianist who is geting in my face with the religion that calls for me to be stoned to death, that is offensive.

Wow...ya'll are taking this silly shit seriously. Re-read my post.

I thought you were refering to an inferiority/superiority argument that I did not make. I was just trying to clarify my post to indicate that I was making a threatened/secure argument. If that was a misunderstanding of your post on my part you have my appologies.

As a man, in a professional setting, you shouldn't be calling a woman "sweetie, hon, etc."

He obviously meant no disrespect, and made a sincere apology.

And this has little to do with being "confident of your status" or not. And the basic fact remains that Women are NOT yet equal to men, in pay or in status. Women only received the right to vote 90 years ago, for goodness sakes. Your attitude seems a little paternalistic and dismissive, even for a white guy (I'm one too, by the way).

I do not call women by pet names. It would be inapropriate because as you point out, and my original point was Men and women are not yet equal. It is also inapropriate for people in a position of power to be overly familiar with their subodinates regardles of gender. They do it as part of inapropriate power politics. Sh*thead midle-managers and President Bush are fond of this low class tactic.

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Ya know? B.O has two young children. Bet he calls them 'Sweetie' all of the time.
I have 2 young children myself. I have (on occasion) called friends, family and co-workers 'Sweetpea', 'Sweetie', and 'Kiddo'. I've also told a co-worker 'love you' at the end of a phone conversation. No, I wasn't in love with the co-worker, I just end most conversations with my wife that way and...I was on automatic.

Sometimes when you're tired and distracted, these things just slip out. We're human; it happens...
I'm sure no harm was intended. B.O. was probably thinking about (and missing) his kids.

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This is just irrelevant. You might as well say that because you scream "f**k me, you stud!" in the midst of sex, it would be fine to solicit a status report from a co-worker at a status meeting by saying, "How are things in procurement, you stud?"

Use your head.

Hello Larry,
Out of one side of your face you say that people shouldn't be offended by comments because you don't think they are a threat. And then you say you're threatened by Christians because they are 80% of the population and called for you to be stoned. Have you thought that maybe some groups may feel threatened or may be "sensitive" to any type of insinuating put down coming from another group of people that comprise of a majority of the population (regarding gender in the business world that would mean men and regarding race that would mean whites) and had/have laws on the books discriminating against them or unwritten rules and stigmas preventing advancement?
As a woman, I'll tell you right now that I don't like men calling me honey or sweetie especially in the workplace. I take it as a put down. If Barack intended it to be a put down because she was pressing him to answer the question then shame on him. But on the other hand, I also have a habit of calling people (men, women, older people, kids) "hon" or "sweetie" and I've attended probably ten diversity classes and understand it's not accepted. He's apologized as well he should have. That's enough for me. Peace.

Out of one side of your face you say that people shouldn't be offended by comments because you don't think they are a threat.

I did not say any such thing. I said that they are offended because they feel threatened and that if they felt secure they would not be offended. This says not one thing about whether they are justified in their fears. I said exactly what I meant. You just read whatever you wanted to into it. How hard is it to give a statement a literal reading?

I agree that Obama has appologized for a comment that he should not have made for exactly the reasons I stated.

You said:

"The reason it is acceptable for women to do but not for men is because men are not threatened by women but women are by men. If women thought they were mens equals then they wound not be offended by trivia like this. It is just like blacks being offended by racial slurs and other ethnic groups not being sensitive to them. If you are confident of your status you are not woried about foolish name calling or language that is overly familiar."

"men are not threatened by women but women are by men"...I think you're wrong, dead wrong. You are not the speaker of all men or all women. Neither am I, that's why I spoke for myself and not all women.

If you don't think people are bothered by other's calling them "sweetie"---why not call try it out for size. Call the next female you meet on the street "sweetie"...now the next male...

You keep insisting that I said things that I did not. I will try to make myself clearer. I do not think that people are not, or that they should not be offended by being called Sweetie or Hon.

The post that this thread is a response to asked why women are more offended by men saying these things that men are by women. I gave my answer to that question. I believe women are offended because they perceive that men are stronger both physicaly and economicly. Wheter this is true or not is irrelevent to the discussion, but I beleive that it is.

I have come to this opinion about the relative fears of men and women based on a survey referenced in the Gavin DeBecker book "The Gift of Fear" and the discussions I have had with women since reading about it. In response to a question about their greatest fear from the oposite gender women indicated that they fear they will be killed. In the same survey men indicated that they feared that they would be laughed at. If that does not reflect a difference in percieved threat I do not know what could.

As for me, a man, aproaching other men and calling them sweetie or hon, that would bring ideas about sexual preference into the discussion that would make it even more inapropriate than calling a woman the same thing. I would never do either. I do not even call my daughter sweetie. My pet name for her is Ma'am.

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mememe, same with me. I call my kids Sweetheart, so just about everyone I know gets called Sweetheart once in awhile by accident. Kind of like my parents used to go through all of their children's names until they hit the right one - Sweetheart is much easier, but then gets dangerous.

Yes, that's definitely a parent thing. Hell, in my family, it wasn't unusual for the dog's name to get thrown into the mix before finally getting to the right kid's name.

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I just came back from lunch where the waitress poured me a little more coffee and before totaling my check asked, "Do you want anything else sweetie?"

Happens all the time. It's good for tips.

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In deference to FlyOnTheWall's take on this kerfluffle (and this is a textbook version) I think all candidates ought to refer to all reporters as "dude" regardless of sex or prestige. Either that or
come up with a gendlerless slang term to address them.

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John McCain uses "friend," particularly with those he dislikes.

John McCain uses "friend," particularly with those he dislikes.

What does that signify about what he thinks of the voters, considering that when he's addressing a group of people, he usually calls them "my friends"?

You're headed in the right direction, markg8, but it needs to be something that's not gender specific.

How about "slick"? Or "ace"? Or "scoop" (to acknowledge the career)?

A friendly androgenous term of address in the South and Appalacia: "skeeter"

A friendly term in the North or anywhere else: just plain ol' "pal"

One d*ck head president giving people nicknames per century is the limit.

Yeah, you're right.

When Gee Dub uses a nickname, it always sounds like an insult, doesn't it?

He's such an embarrassment.

But I'd love to have an excuse to hear someone use the nickname "skeeter" in public more often!

Alright - and how 'bout Skeets?!?

I dig it and my TX & LA fam does too.

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I always use "sir" or "ma'am", at work and elsewhere.

The worst blowback I've ever gotten from that is something like, "I'm a 'Miss'."

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"there's a world of difference between the connotations of "sweetie," in a sexist world, and "buddy" - let's not equate the two."

There's one thing not different in a sexist world: sexism is, as it always has been, a TWO-way street.

All my life, and I ain't even an Autumn chicken, from earliest memories, women have been talking about what "men" are -- not in the sense of what they actually are, mind you, but in the sense that they actually know what men are from actually having been men.

Never, however, have I ever heard any male, regardless age, sit around determining what women are.

One of the most offensve of female sexisms, especially currently, is the knee-jerk pointing away from themselves and proper self-scrutiny, followed by accusations of sexist "insenitivity" and the like.

So how about getting off your petulant, arrogant high horse, FlyOntheWall, and getting honest -- beginning with yourself, and the offensiveness of your conduct?

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Yep, I get the "sweetie" too, and "baby" sometimes as well, it is a term of endearment, not of subjugation. The Hillary crew is working overtime to try to paint Obama as a sexist so they can divide the Party:

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/05/hillarys-gender-baiting-campaign-is-in.html

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"The reason it is acceptable for women to do but not for men is because men are not threatened by women but women are by men."

According to whom? SOME women?

Every hear of lying for leverage?

Ever notice that some are about pursuit of truth, but others about pursuit of power -- and in the latter instance will say and do anything to get it? Including falsely claim to be offended in order to intimidate and at least imply threat?

Here's an example:

I have a friend who moved out of the house, then filed for divorce against his wife. Both actions obviously communicated, "I don't want to be near her."

The next day, the wife applied for a restraining order. On what grounds? That she wanted him to stay away from her. Despite the obvious, she got the restraining order.

She was a "victim," ya see, of . . . what exactly? Failing to be in line ahead of him at the courthouse?

"If women thought they were mens equals then they wound not be offended by trivia like this."

If women who think they are superior to men -- and there are many -- want to get their way, they will say anything and play any game to do so.

It is clearly sexist for a man to say, "Men are more intelligent than women." But no one seems to object when a woman says, "Women are more intelligent than men." It's "okay" for her to say that, of course, because she "actually" "thinks" she is inferior.

"It is just like blacks being offended by racial slurs and other ethnic groups not being sensitive to them. If you are confident of your status you are not woried about foolish name calling or language that is overly familiar."

And if the person using such "affectionate" "intimate" language has an undisclosed agenda, your "status" means diddley if she intends to get an equivalent response so she can then make an issue of it.

Note that FlyOntheWall points out how the reporter acted like an ass, and yet she makes an issue of and criticizes Obama for having used a term which in context is simply warm and friendly, and not at all out of line. (And who gets to define "out of line"? The experts on sexism and impropriety: women.)

Though most women won't admit it -- they may want to use the same gambits some day -- some will: they know at least as well as aware men that women can be at least as underhanded as men. Read up on the use of "indirect aggression" -- which in real terms usually means: manipulating others to do the dirty work for her while she stands by looking innocent, and all of it based upon the "victim model" -- i.e., all violence is committed by males/women are only ever victims.

Women know exactly what I mean.

FlyOntheWall is one who knows exactly what I mean, and is also one who won't admit it.

Thank you for disagreeing with me using this sexist rant. I apreciate the distancing of my statements from your kind of vitriolic misunderstanding.

Please take your pathetic, whiny, men-are-the-victims here attitude and piss off. Yes, I know you're still full of rage because of all those bitches who didn't understand that you were entitled to date them, but I don't care. Retreat to your basement and your computer full of porn.

Excelent response!

ah, {giggle giggle giggle}


I'm so used to being called "hon" by men and everything else, from "sweetheart," to "dear," to "darlin" to "prettylady" to you name it, from women, that I don't hear it any more. Furthermore, I do it all the time myself and don't hear myself do it.

But that's because it's a way of life down here. Along with good manners and smiling a lot. Another 3 reasons I like the south.

You go to some parts of the country and you get funny looks and funny treatment if you have good manners and smile a lot and talk nicely to people. Or at least, that's what I've found. You are immediately suspect simply because you are pleasant rather than otherwise.

People just don't get this - we're not frontin down here - we actually feel that friendly toward people.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with Obama, except this: I can't get excited about it in any way, shape or form.

LOL

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I grew up in the south and have lived all over, and have never found that the south has a monopoly on friendliness or manners. The friendliest place I ever lived was Oregon--but maybe I just felt that way because I liked it there.

As for sweetie...there's a big difference between a waitress calling a patron sweetie and a politician calling a reporter sweetie. It was flippant and unprofessional, and Obama knew it and apologized. I can't imagine why anyone would try to rationalize a stupid gaffe like this or try to do some kind of reverse discrimination jujitsu. Better to let the whole matter die.

I don't think there is any big difference between calling one woman "sweetie" and another "sweetie. " And I haven't been to Oregon.

I have been to Washington and if you can't tell the difference between say, a flight out of DFW to Seattle and one from Seattle back to Dallas- (hint: on the way back you get staff from Dallas) then I'm sorry. My family moved to Texas from California. I spent as much time there as in Texas and there is a huge difference. Huge. I went to public school in both Texas and California and I can tell you that the difference in manners back then was enormous - enormous.

I think people are egregiously rude in some other parts of the country.

And I do not think it is a big ass deal to slip up and call a woman "sweetie." I think this a such a tempest in a teapot it's damn funny.

Having lived all over, from Fairbanks to Miami, I do not think that any area is more well manered than any other. It is just that manners differ from on place to another.

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I've found that southerners are more beholden to archaic customs to other parts of the country. In hat way, capital hill fits in with its region, as it is the only place where they call you honorable when slandering you. On the other hands, no self respecting New Englander will follow any custom without having at least a theory on why it should exist, including, in the case of Boston, most traffic laws.
It is for those reasons that most northerners will see southern "politeness" as condescending and dishonest.

You know, I guess I'm sexist. Hunh!

You see, I almost never mind familiar terms of endearment when they come from women (unless they're saying it to be snotty), but it kind of bothers me coming from a man--unless it's a man who is much older and there's no condescension or sexual undertone to it.

Wow. I gotta think about this for awhile.

I think it has as much to do with thepower dynamics of the situation as it does with gender. An overbearing boss who is being overly familiar is much different from a servant doing the same regardless of gender. A similar offense is Bush's habit of giving nicknames to people. It is a good thing that Obama appologized. Bush has had people point out his rudness to his face and he pretends to be oblivious.

Bush isn't oblivious. That's just his chickensh*t way of insulting people.

You know, I don't see Bush as the affable, jocular, "regular guy" other people see. I think he's hostile and cowardly. So he gets his jabs in at people by demeaning them in public.

You are right on. He is just pretending to be oblivious. It is a cover for being intensionaly dickish.

You're right, of course, fly. But it was fun to revel in the lighthearted banter that Boyd wrote.


Leading the Sweetie vote!
Leading the Honey vote!
Leading you all!

Much Love,
Hillary - candidate of all things yummy 08!

Use your head.
Posted by Lynn Dee
May 20, 2008 12:51 PM

Funny...that's what she said last night...but seriously, folks...(try the veal)...

sure it was a gaffe. at BEST, it was pretty patronizing. at worst, it was diminishing and dismissive.

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So being called "sweetie" gives you a complete understanding of the female experience. Good for you! Now spend less time at Burger King.

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So being called "sweetie" gives you a complete understanding of the female experience. Good for you! Now spend less time at Burger King.

I really don't know what to make of this. Either you're trolling or posting while off your meds. But, just in case you're actually serious...

I never said I understood ANY of the "female experience". In fact, I explicitly said the exact opposite:

Now, I admit that I don't know how it feels to be addressed that way as a woman.

Are you always this intellectually dishonest, or are you always this stupid, and I'm giving you credit for being able to intentionally lie?

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I think a big piece of this story is missing from most of the comments, and I'd suggest that it changes the analysis a bit. Obama called this reporter personally to apologize. He said it's a bad habit and he acknowledged that it's wrong. Now, an unrepentent "sweetie-ist" is different from one who sees the problem and apologizes, right? It's fair to complain that this is even a habit, or that he can't seem to control it. But many of the complainants in this forum make their arguments as though Obama doesn't "get it" and didn't attempt to make amends. He obviously does and he did.

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You know what's funny? I wasn't really writing about Obama. I was just noting that this seems to happen a lot in casual conversation, and I was wondering what people thought about whether there's a double standard on what gender does it, or if there's times when it's appropriate and inappropriate.

I think sweetie,...is a term of affection in regard to how nice a person is. In America, ,...it is often used with familiarity, although I have encountered it almost everytime I walk into a diner and an middle aged woman takes my order. So it is often used in customer relations as Mr. Reed pointed out. It's pretty standard, "being nice",..in that regard and I've never taken offense but often wondered if they were just doing that just to get a bigger tip. In Obama's case, it would seem that he would would more likely use "sweetie" with his daughters or maybe his wife,....so it is indeed a little odd that he would say that to a reporter. Maybe, it was simply a slip of the tongue because his daughters were around or whatever and he therefore regretted it and apologized afterwards. I would say its a term often said between generations such as "Parents or Grandchildren to their children or grandchildren". Unless Obama has a reoccurring habit of calling young beautiful reporters sweetie,...it's probably best to drop this ridiculousness. Definitely not news worthy but it again points out how desperate news station are sometimes to get a controversy. If they want a controversy,...Here's one,....George Bush just possibly called the majority of Americans appeasers. Sounds like another war cry by a man who's own family were finiacial appeasers in WW2!

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Dismissive comment yes, perhaps for being an inexperienced reporter, perhaps a girl. I still gotta believe Hillary, in 35 years of expeiencs, has called a man a term of endearment and escaped criticism. McCains probably gotten a few passes too, though I see him using the word "dear" more than sweetie.

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It's all about context. The most important part of the context, imho, is power. When a person with more objectively judged power refers to another person, another adult, as "sweetie", "hon", "girlie", "boy" or "kid", it's about asserting power over the other person.

I saw and heard the video of Obama and cringed, particularly when you hear the deep male chuckles that followed his remark to the female reporter. Obama should know better. (And no, it's not about his kids. Listen to the way he talks to the reporter and it's clearly not affectionate or parental. Patronizing, yes.) At least he apologized, seemingly sincerely.

Yep. You're right imo. It was just wrong. I'm glad he apologized and didn't try to make some lame excuse for himself.

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Sweetie is a term I use as an endearment. A personal term for those I care about.

Others such as fast-food workers use it as a way to address a stranger in a more personal manner.

Sexists use it when they cannot remember someone's name or when they see the other person as an object of sexual interest.

If it is used from one worker to another worker it is certainly inappropiate as it is unprofessional. But sometimes is not intended to offend as it may come out without thinking.

I don't think I want to live in a society that is so up tight that someone cannot use an endearment without it being deemed derogatory.

Yes, it is derogatory in some instances, when it is used in that way then go ahead and call the person out on their inappropiate use otherwise one can just smile at the endearing term.

As soon as I saw Obama call someone "Sweetie", I knew it was going to get blown way out of proportion. These terms were common place in yesteryears and were and still are used not only between opposite sexes but also between same sex individuals.

In my early years there was a bartender who always addressed men by their name but addressed all women as "doll". Now as a true sexist he could never think of any woman of value enough to learn their name. But his way of dealing with it was he thought by making them feel good by calling them by an endearment. I called him out on it and insisted that he call me by my name.

We have to remember the key to almost anything is intent. I don't want to have to stop calling my sister "Sweetie" because it's meaning has been warped out of all recognition of the actual endearment it means to me.