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So how does Obama graciously NOT name HRC VP?

I'm with those who dislike the idea of an Obama/Clinton ticket. But let's face it: She does have an important base. She's run a very close second. The pressure on Obama is going to be very intense to pick her as VP, it seems to me. I don't think he should, but he needs to not pick her in a way that saves face for her. (Forget about whether she's deserving--this is about scoring votes in the fall, not grudge-match points now.)

One solution might be to see that she gets publicly teed up to be the next majority leader before Obama announces a VP pick, so that she's out of the running otherwise. DairyStateMom suspects that Axelrod and Plouffe and Obama have already been chatting with Harry Reid to pave the way.

So what other scenarios for this are there?

(PS: And fugeddaboud SCOTUS. She's not cut out for that at all.)


Comments (229)

I think the main thing is to put some distance between the VP decision and the end of the primaries. Don't rush it. Let people calm down, reassess the landscape. See how Clinton responds.

Obama is holding the winning cards, he doesn't need to compromise. After some time has passed if there is still a huge rift in the party and Clinton is not doing much to heal it, then Obama may have to put her on the ticket.

But that decision doesn't need to be made now.

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I agree. Obama should take his time and make a good decision. Kerry would be in the White House now if he'd hadn't picked Edwards.

He can name John Edwards, and when he refuses, he can name Jim Webb.

After his performance in '04, Edwards would be one heck of a gamble.

And Webb sucks, glad people are so perceptive.

why does Webb suck?

Here's one post. Digby or Bowers or some fairly important blogger skewered him the other day with his not-too-helpful full-of-respect embrace of McCain on that key bill. Anyway, Webb's been a disappointment, but people think "Dem? Pro-military? Great!"

I dunno. I'm lukewarm to Obama/Webb for purely tactical reasons cited elsewhere. But I read something in a right-wing paper last week or the week before about how conservatives had hoped Webb would be a mole for their policies in the Democratic party but instead he votes "like any other liberal Democrat"--as if that were a bad thing.

I agree that Webb is a terrible choice, for the reasons mentioned above as well as the fact that he's not personable and somewhat confrontational. I think it goes against the whole bringing the country together schtick.

Plus, if the idea is to bring VA into play, his approval ratings there are not good. And, he's even more disliked by Independents, who I think will be the most crucial voting bloc in the general.

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He's as hot-tempered as McCain

And we need Webb's Senate seat. Who'd replace him? Remember his victory was a surprise and only came about b/c of Allen's "macacca" implosion.

Kathleen Sebilius or Wes Clark -now that he's out of the fold.

Oh, and create a new cabinet post for Hillary: Secretary of Healthcare.

I assume Democratic governor Kaine would be able to appoint Webb's replacement.

Well I didn't mean "how would he be replaced" I meant literally who would it be? I think Webb's more valuable where he is.

Wes Clark would the same qualities to the table as veep and wouldn't vacate a sitting congressional or senate seat. And now that he's out of the HIllary camp why not?

I'm a total NO on Wesley Clark. A few months ago, I had a strange encounter with him and his wife at LAX. They were in line in front of me going through security. They were running late and his wife would not stop bitching - at Wesley, at the security guards, at anyone who would listen. And this was all at about 5a.m. I cannot imagine what misery it would be to be married to her. She had to go through the metal detector 4 times because she refused to accept that her ganky oversized gold bracelet was setting the machine off. Finally, the security guard, who didn't appear to know who they were, told her that he simply was not going to argue with her, that she had to take the bracelet off. She huffed and puffed about how it didn't set any metal detectors off before.

For Wesley's part, he seemed oblivious to the level of bitch that was taking place around him. His carry-on luggage had about 100 of those stretchy rubber-band things that airlines have on the bag tags, he just never took them off, just the ripped the name tag part. I was surprised considering his military background, but he appeared quite messy. Really bad dresser too. He wore black pants with a blue jacket with gold buttons. Hideous. He kept talking on his Blackberry through an ear piece with a wire that he had a horrible time managing. And, he was on a business call, using beltway-speak and repeated over again that some person would be very good for some position because "he is very smart. Very bright." It was as if he actually could not describe the person in any specified way.

And, then they missed their flight. I giggled for days. He would be like Barny Fife running for Vice President.

I think that's how he came across running for President.

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Didn't she know that bitching to TSA can cause more problems? They aren't very tolerant of anything unusual, especially agitated travelers.

I don't know enough about VA politics to know who would be a good replacement, but there are 4 years left on Webb's term so whoever was nominated wouldn't be forced to deal with re-election right away.

Democrats have done well in VA lately. Mark Warner is likely to cruise to victory to fill John Warner's seat. Kaine seems to be doing well. Tom Davis is on his way out.

I don't know enough about VA politics to know who would be a good replacement, but there are 4 years left on Webb's term so whoever was nominated wouldn't be forced to deal with re-election right away.

I'm pretty sure that there would be an election for the remaining two years of Webb's term in 2010. The appointments to the Senate are only good until the next regular election.

Two years might be enough to give a good appointee time enough to be favored in the election. But why risk it? Adding another first-term senator to the ticket is not a great idea anyway.

Two senators is a bad Idea anyway. I agree about Sebelus. Kill two birds with one stone.

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Oh God! John Edwards? What does he bring to the ticket? The reason he didn't endorse in NC is because he knew his endorsement carries no weight. He will not make NC blue anymore than Obama can do it all by himself. And four months hearing about $4 hair cuts and bashing the easiest target in the world, i.e. trial lawyers? No thanks.

Webb or Richardson.

Did I mention Webb sucks? Oh, Richardson - perhaps we should run a toaster instead. Wes Clark? Oh, he was a dynamite ball of energy on the campaign trail. You know, instead of all these drain balls you can simply slap the table on the side and it'll tilt by itself.

Yes you did mention Webb sucks, but you really didn't say why. I personally don't think he's the right guy, I'm just interested in hearing why he sucks.

Similarly, your toaster > Richardson comment could use some detail.

I've also noticed an absence of suggestions from your end. Got a winner?

I've made my selection obvious. Currently you have her roasting on a skewer over on sandpit #4.

I figured Richardson wanted Secretary of State. He has an advantage for that post over Joe Biden in political capital w/Obama. He'd be a great VP, but can you imagine how that ticket would scare the heck out of those racists that would never vote for a black man.

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"I figured Richardson wanted Secretary of State."
That right there is the main reason I oppose him being the VP: it would mean that we'd have to get Powell to get a SoS nearly as good as Richardson would be.

It does however have the added benefit of being directly out of a Dave Chappel skit.

I don't buy that he picks Webb. The novels he wrote with fictional rape scenes and other sexual scenes were panned for being misogynistic. Talk about turning off women voters in a race where a woman was denied the 'inevitable' nomination. But, I believe that Webb's fellow Virginian, Gov. Tim Kaine, would make a great VP. Very religious background (former missionary:Community organizing) and bona fide progressive fiscal policies. He would carry VA for certain and maybe puts the blue wave within reach of NC/TX in the general election. That's to say nothing of MO/CO/IA/WI/OH/FL. To me, a Virginian (living now in NY), Kaine is a no brainer.

I happen to suspect that Obama is looking for a running mate that shares his frame of mind: pragmatic, progressive, and a record of working for consensus on progressive policies, which fits in Obama's message of unification and a common national purpose. He's not looking for branding types: hawkish, religious, fiscal conservative, religion or race. That would undermine the very premise of his candidacy, which is that a unified national purpose is not acheived by the same approach to politics. Of course, this is itself political, the new kind.

I also recall that prior to the VA primary, there were numerous articles on the observation that the two of them had never met prior, but soon connected strongly, sharing 'war stories' about their shared politics. I think their two backgrounds- Kaine doing missionary work and Obama doing community organizing- indicates they share a common outlook on creating consensus around progressive policies. I'm just connecting dots because there are dots to connect, but it won't be for loss of logic.

Or Warner. Janet Napolitano. Richardson. Brian Schweitzer. There are a lot of good Democratic Governors out there. My guess, if he doesn't pick Clinton. It'll be one of the governors.

Excellent, let's pick a VP candidate whose experience makes Obama's look deep.

Was that John Warner, or who?

Who would you like, and why?

Hillary - you don't have to start from scratch, she actually understands foreign policy, and Obama needs a bulldog because he's not up to it.

I mulled this over overnight and I've come to the conclusion that it's a completely awesome idea. The role of the VP during the candidate is usually attack dog, and between the two of them they'd slaughter McCain on the issues. And because there's such a huge divide between them on issues, if that's what they're consistently attacking on, it doesn't stray from the "new politics" message.

I think the excitement over this ticket would just be insane. A few caveats: I was unsure how Clinton supporters would feel about this, but Des seems to think it's a good idea...other Clinton supporters? The other thing I honestly don't know the answer to is whether she'd accept or not. But if she does...

It could be great.

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Clinton does not deserve to be on the ticket. After her destructive, self-centered campaign, she has forfeited this honor.

Quick, someone name Clinton's signature issue that animates her run for President. (Besides her own ambition, I mean).

And, now her camp is openly attacking liberals and other Democrats, in the mold of Ronald Reagan.

This behavior should NOT be rewarded!

AlphaLiberal: "Clinton does not deserve to be on the ticket. After her destructive, self-centered campaign, she has forfeited this honor."

Look, I basically agree with you, but the nearly half of Democrats in the primary who voted her won't see it that way. Most of them will ultimately accept him as being at the top of the ticket (I'm an optimist) but I think a lot of them will see him as needlessly dissing her by passing her over for No. 2.

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Her supporters will have to realize:

1. She brings NOTHING to the ticket. NY is blue no matter what, and her support there is slim anyway now.

2. She will galvanize the Right to a degree that is unacceptable.

3. She prevented herself from being VP by her own actions. We will see endless loops of her endorsing McCain over Obama. As I tell my 5 year old, we can't always get what we want. Hillary cannot be on this ticket because her behavior precludes it.

I agree. The anallogy with JFK's naming LBJ is sometimes mentioned as precedent for Obama's naming Hillary, but I don't think the analogy holds. LBJ brought Texas; Hillary doesn't even bring Arkansas, according to the most recent polls. Both Obama and Hillary would carry New York handily against McCain.

Clinton brings a lot of her supporters who say they won't vote for Obama. We can take some bleeding, but it remains to be seen how much.

And why do we need to bleed? The "Hillary was self-centered" argument is bogus - every candidate running for President is self-centered. Do we like people who don't really want the job they're running for?

Maybe she could help you carry Indiana? Pennsylvania? New Mexico? Massachusetts? Ohio? Florida? Michigan? Texas?

A little secret - the general elections work on who wins the most votes in a state, not obscure caucus rules.

Maybe she could help you carry Indiana?

Can we stuff this Majority Leader talk. It makes no fucking sense. There are easily 8 other Democrats with more seniority than she has (keep in mind she is the Junior Senator from NY, just like Lieberman is the Junior Senator from CT) and definitely more brains, backbone and willingness to actually get stuff done for Democrats.

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Amen.

Thank you. I have read about a thousand folks suggest the majority leader idea as if it's somehow a new idea. The idea was long ago rendered to cliche status.

Again I ask, why would any presidential candidate choose to run with someone of whom more than half the voters consider negatively?

Also again, I think all this talk of the need for a VP candidate who will attract the votes of the "Joe Six Pack" "Reagan democrats" is rubbish. It a mid-1980s DLC concept, which many of the media talking hairdos seem to love to dwell upon.

First, how are these folks democrats, when they have voted for Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II twice?

Secondly, Obama is realigning the democratic coalition. And, this year Hispanics are moving substantially toward the democratic party, thanks to republicans demagoguing the immigration issue.

Consequently, I think Obama should select Richardson as his running mate. The guy has unparalleled foreign affairs credentials, he would bolster the Hispanic vote, and his selection would not mean removing a democratic senator from office. A democratic president is going to need all of the democratic congresspersons she/he can have.

I was thinking about Richardson, but I expect they'll be picking a very white person to try to reassure those on the fence about voting for a non-white man. Probably a very white man, actually, despite calls for a woman.

Excellent, you can lose the Hispanic vote at the same time as the middle-to-elderly female vote. Glad someone has their thinking cap on.

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And your suggestions are...? Or do you never have something constructive to contribute?

Yeah, why even bother with the white vote ... aren't many white people in the US.


What is a VERY white man? Like w whiter shade of pale??

Oh, Larry Bird, Phil Simms, etc.

Exactly: How "rewarded" are her Senate supporters going to feel(some of them having been in the senate since before Bill Clinton was President) if the results of their efforts are that Clinton leap-frogs them in the Senate pecking-order?

Think of the service Harry Reid has done. How could we deny that? Diane Feinstein - what a stalwart ally she's been. Teddy Kennedy, come on down, big hand of applause. John Kerry - put down your macchiato and get on over here.

I'll bet people run the other way when you show up for social occasions -- you are like a fingernail screeching down a blackboard! You haven't said one constructive thing, and sarcastically put everyone else's comments down.

Any actual ideas you'd like to share?

Yes, I recommend you all stop being bitter and recognize that the woman who's been kicking your ass, just not quite enough, is the best ally you could have going up against the Republicans. Presuming she doesn't still manage to win the nomination herself.

Obama did little to make further inroads into the white vote - he basically just got more and more blacks to vote for him, now averaging over 90%. That demographic's not going to carry him through the generals. Go look at MyDD if you don't believe me.

Right Fabooj....exactly right, get more done for the Dems. Especially given that she has insinuated that the Democrats are being run by the Far left, while she hangs with Scaife and them.

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If you get Hillary, then you get Bill "helping" with the campaign

And as a co-vice-president. Try keeping them off the stage.

Like he did so well with Hillary.

I've said all along that I really don't think Obama has any choice. There's no reason for him not to ask Hillary, except maybe a handful of people online might cry, but where are they going to go?

The rank and file of the Democratic Party are going to want him to at least ask Hillary. In my mind, I'd say that Jim Webb could be the only one who might trump her as a choice and of course, if he doesn't ask her, he'll still have a significant base, but the Democrats are going to want him to at least ask Hillary and it's the only way to mend a lot of the fences.

I agree, they will want him to ask her, but then the risk is she'll say yes. And I don't think that would really be good for the ticket.

I'm going to support the nominee, no matter who it might be, but I don't think the fall is going to be easy enough that anybody should risk alienating any segment of the party.

I agree, but that's the Hobson's choice here:

Pick her to avoid alienating an important part of the Democratic base, but then tarnish his own brand and turn off independents and moderate Republican voters to whom he has been appealing.

Don't pick her, keep those independents and moderate Republicans, but alienate an important part of the Democratic base.

Oh, and to A Missouri voter below: I'd like to think you're right, but I'm not so sure that hardcore HRC loyalty will easily translate to someone else.

Personally, I think that if we ever get around to talking about actual issues, there's going to be some significant peeling away of Independent and Republican support. I'm sure there will probably still be some in November for a variety of reasons, but I also think that any who'd be affected by putting Hillary in the #2 spot are probably going to be lost by the time we get to the election, anyway.

The reasons are that Clinton is considered negatively by over half the voters. Besides who needs Bill Clinton hanging around?

Those may be accurate reasons. They won't help rally her supporters to the eventual ticket.

No, I'm not saying they'll all stay home or vote for McCain in November. But it will be important to get them emotionally on board.

Imagine that Republican ad with footage of runningmate Hillary disparaging candidate Obama.
'nuff said.

I don't think there's a lot of footage of Hillary saying anything really negative about Obama and back in '80, when we ran ads of George H.W, calling Reagan's economic proposals "voo-doo", it didn't seem to have a big effect.

We must not have watched the same debates.

Wow. Were you just on a long international vacation?

I listed just some of the most obvious negative video clips that could be used in Republican ads and elsewhere in this post:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/a-sincere-questioning-of-the-p.php

While it's not as "gotcha" as some of the others, I honestly think the "sky will open up" speech from Clinton would be the most damaging one. Video of your running mate mocking your campaign's central theme and message?

I discussed this point with several people now and still don't see how this doesn't rule out an Obama/Clinton ticket.

The Republicans won't be running any videos of Hillary unless it's her looking like a chicken or having her eyes bulging out. Guaranteed. They'll show Rev. Wright humping the podium long before they bring up Hillary's image.

I think the main reason she should not be asked is that she will activate the Republican base against the Democrats like grease does fire.

I am not one for saying "The Republicans will do ____" but this issue is serious enough to consider.

**You must be a hilbot. You don't understand Obama's message. It's about CHANGE!!!!!!! Clinton is the opposite. She can go back to her bar-hopping, ball-growing pastimes now..

He has been campaigning on Change, Change from the way Washington works now. A better question imo would be how can he possibly invite Hillary to be on the ticket when she has a long history in Washington?

I believe he will show respect toward her. I have every confidence that he can praise her and read the last rites very tactfully. RIP

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He says publicly he and the country need her in the Senate playing a key leadership role on health care among many other issues, after telling her privately the same thing and giving her an opportunity to respond in whatever fashion she sees fit. This has the advantage of being both true and, I surmise, honest.

In the private meeting he should ask her for her suggestions on who she would recommend that he talk to about the vice presidential nomination to maximize the party's chances in the fall and ensure the country would be in good hands if.

And then he should do her the courtesy, and ensure himself the benefit, of making sure he both meets with personally, and takes seriously, as many of these folks as he feels he can.

**Well, then, I think Obama should announce that he's going to name a "Health Care Czar."

God forbid it would be Hillary! Despite what she said about learning from the last time, I don't see any evidence of her approach being more acceptable than it was with her first try.

I DO think she would make a great Attorney General, however. Or how about Ambassador to Iran? JK

Well, if your concern is that she has a loyal following among certain segments of the base, then it seems to me that the way around offering her the job is simply to offer it to someone else with just as much loyalty among those segments of the base. Gov Strickland of OH, for instance, or (if he can be coaxed out of retirement) Dick Gephardt. I expect, however, that this problem will solve itself because she will not want the VP's job and will make as much quite clear.

**Doesn't WANT IT? Are you kidding me? She's had a whole troop of surrogates out there "suggesting" it.

I can't imagine why she would want it. She's already done the Veep job, in effect, and she's too old for it to become a useful springboard for her.

Also, she has not been campaigning as though she wanted it. The "kitchen sink" strategy was not something you would do if you had VP at the back of your mind as a viable option.

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Exactly. After all this talk about Obama not being ready to be commander in chief, she'd look silly being his VP. Plus Hillary Rodham Clinton has got too much pride.

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Imagine having to spin that Obama has now passed the Commander in Chief threshold, when Hillary already said McCain was better for the job.

Is America ready for a black president?
Is America ready for a woman president?
How about the combination?

2 words: Short List. Put her on it, and don't announce until the convention. Let the MSM beat the "Race to VP" horse to death and then it won't seem like such a big deal.

I don't think Senate Majority Leader will actually work (too many reasons to go into). IMO, Hillary is going to have to swallow this loss with grace and return to fight another day.

Can we stuff this Majority Leader talk.

Agreed and thank you. Not only are their seniority issues, but nothing in her personality suggests she is persuasive -- and that is the key characteristic required of a Majority Leader.

I've said all along, she should be the Senate Dem Whip. Now that suits her personality and temperament.

I feel the same way about the Supreme Court talk. Ugh.

Not persuasive? Arrogant, are we? Held onto a win in Indiana, blew him out in Pennsylvania & Ohio, California, etc. Isn't that persuasive enough?

Dudes, close only counts in horeshoes and hand grenades. Perhaps atom bombs and obliteration. Not in elections, or Al Gore would be President. Show us what you can do.

Isn't that persuasive enough?

No, Desi, it's not. Persuading Senators is very different than persuading the electorate with education-based, or race-based epithets.

Hillary has an exceeding poor record of persuading her peers... both as first lady in her healthcare debacle and in her Senate voting record (where she has passed little substantive legislation in 8 years).

And just to be clear: by her Senate record, I meant legislation that *she* wrote.

Like was discussed a lot on MSNBC last night, Obama should agree to seat MI and FL and pay her campaign debts if Hillary drops out. Based on her rhetoric all campaign, she should not be on the ticket. She will undermine the ticket. Personally, I would fear her organizing some sort of coup against him because she's so power hungry.

So would that be sufficient solace to her most loyal base--"I'll pay her debts, but not offer her the VP slot"? Not a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely curious here.

And what is the legal ability of a candidate to pay off another candidate's campaign like that, anyway? (Ooops, that's probably another thread.)

Assuming it's even legal to pay off her debt, the correct ploy is two fold:

a) Tell her it will only happen if she drops out immediately

b) Tell your campaign donors -- who now would be pissed they donated to Hillary -- that it was more efficient to spend $10.4M to knock out Hillary this way (and get her intense support), than continue to spend it on primary materials and advertising.

However, this doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell: running out of money is exactly the reason to squeeze your opponent out. It would make him look like less of a leader.

In fact, all he has to do is be gracious and smile.

What can the rest of us do? How about playing this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cywyKHqvZxo

Maybe he could offer a rebate of $.18 a gallon for everyone's gas bill (for those earning under, say, $100K --> with her plan even billionaires would get a break) over the summer. That way, the money would still be there for the road work, the gas companies couldn't justify raising the price at the pump, and Hillary's lofty goal of helping out hard-working families with a subsidy of a whopping $70 over three months would be met.

How could she turn it down? It's what she said she wanted, right?

Why should Obama's supporters pay the bills for Clinton's horribly mismanaged campaign? My money should pay Mark Penn's salary? Hell, no.

(Not to mention, the Clinton's have made about $119,700,000 more than I have over the last seven years...)

About Clinton as a running mate - absolutely not. Put Kathleen Sebelius on the ticket and focus hard on women's issues. The Clinton supporters who don't come back will never return no matter what Obama does. This is his race, not hers.

You would think Obama won Indiana or something. Wasn't he supposed to come back in Ohio? Wasn't New Hampshire his for the taking? Let's hear the story again about how the fish got away.

Got a new story for you. It's about a candidate who just had her last chance for a claim on the nomination ripped away because she could only win Indiana with the help of 100,000 Dittoheads.