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SHOULDN'T OVER TURN THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE......
Hillary Clinton's 249,000-popular-vote plurality in Kentucky, offset only partially by Barack Obama's 108,000-vote plurality in Oregon, gives her a popular-vote lead in two of realclearpolitics.com's six metrics, i.e., counting Florida and Michigan, and including those two states and the imputed popular-vote margin in the Iowa, Nevada, Washington, and Maine caucuses. And it puts her within reach, depending on the result in unpredictable Puerto Rico, of a popular-vote lead in the other four metrics—All of which seems to me to make a solid case that Clinton is the choice of the people...... She will say that you can't over turn the will of the people.
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Comments (38)
She will be wrong. You can't change the rules in the middle or at the end of the game. It remains to be seen if Hillary can win the popular vote using even the tortured logic of RealClearRedStatePolitics but regardless delegate math is what the Democratic party uses to choose it's nominee as laid out and agreed to by all parties before the contests began.
May 30, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Serious question: what have you got against RealClearPolitics?
It's being misused here, but I don't see any fault of theirs…
May 30, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah in each of the "two of realclearpolitics.com's six metrics" in which Clinton leads is with no Michigan votes awarded to Obama, whose name did not appear on the ballot, and all of Clinton's Michigan votes included. If only 25% of the Michigan uncommitted vote was awarded to Obama Clinton would not lead in any "of realclearpolitics.com's six metrics".
The will of the people. My ass.
Even if the popular vote mattered in the nominating process Clinton's argument would be absurd.
May 30, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
We need to keep repeating this to HillaryClinton08 until it sinks in. I know she's already been told this several times.
May 30, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
The unpledged (super) delegates are political pros not taken in by Clinton's "tortured logic".
May 30, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought I would just play Sancho Panza to your Don Quixote of trying to convince HillaryClinton08 of that, however.
I'm not concerned with the unpledged delegates for exactly the reason you mentioned.
May 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter if it makes sense. Hillary and her supporters are trying to win in the "Court of Public Opinion". If they can push their tortured logic enough times to enough people. Those especially vulnerable are the masses of Clinton supporters who want to grab onto any sort of metric. They believe quoting realclearpolitics lends it some sort of legitimacy.
May 30, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think HC08 is made of that new-fangled permeable concrete.
May 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks more like good old brick-type stuff. A thick layer of it.
May 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys don't get it. The so-called "will of the people" means "will of the people who support Hillary". Hillary wins 100% of that demographic, and therefore deserves to be the next president.
May 30, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
See here's where you need to be able to recommend comments. Especially wise-ass comments.
May 30, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
If every vote counts, then we should include those who voted "uncommitted" in Michigan.
May 30, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
HC08 did you watch this vid yet - Manchester">http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=4c42be55-720d-4934-bd21-5f31b3d7b254&headline=Robert+D.+Novak%3a+Mark+Warner+for+Obama%27s+VP%3f">Manchester Union Leader - or are you consciously avoiding any and all facts that discredit your talking point theories?
May 30, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correct vid link -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OVuqHW7hZo
May 30, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, this is a nominating contest, so the national popular vote is meaningless, but it's fun to pretend, isn't it?
Don't worry, HillaryClinton08--it will all be over tomorrow.
May 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Geez, or if this were the Republican primary, or if we could only count the votes the way the former Soviet Union did, or if magic ponies could vote...
The rules are the rules. Hillary was for them before she was against them. If you want to keep the right to choose and maybe not go to war with Iran and not become a peon in a smog-clogged nation of uber-debtors who owe their great-grandchildren's future to China, get over it and get behind the Democratic candidate.
(Oh, and, by the way, Puerto Rico doesn't get to vote in the general election.)
May 30, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kyle E. Moore kills Hillary's last argument:
http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/05/killing-clintons-last-argument#more-4265
May 30, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107572/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Back-DoubleDigits.aspx
May 30, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's not fair, you're looking at May. I'm pretty sure it's only the will of the people in January that matters.
May 30, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention, Ben Hocking, that it's only the will of those people who still want Hillary Clinton to win, regardless of how that pool of diehards may be shrinking, that matters.
Also, remember that we haven't counted the votes in Belize, Costa Rica, or Guatemala yet. (And there's still the magic pony vote to contend with -- especially if they cast their ballots on opposite Tuesday).
May 30, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
From your link it's quite easy to see which candidate runs strongest against McCain.
May 30, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad she did not run as strong against Obama. Maybe we would have found out how strong she would have ran against McCain. Oh, well! There is always 2016. Hillary will only be 68. And you know, 68 is the new 58.
May 30, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
1. The only 'metrics' Clinton leads in are gall and pathos. She wins those categories hands-down.
2. 'Overturn' is one word, dear.
3. By next Wednesday, HillBilly will have been handed their walking papers - and can safely book a trip back to planet Earth.
4. We're going to take HillaryClinton08 to the vets next weekend and have them put out of their misery.
:)
May 30, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you people being mean to HillaryClinton08 again, just because she's off her meds? Shame on you!
May 30, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
And of course by "people" you must mean just Bill and Chelsea and Hillary. They are "real people" -- working , hardworking Americans, white Americans, white people.
Other humanoids may be pro-Hillary, but they are not real people because they are likely to change their minds, which have not been fully programmed to "people" status. Humanoids who are pro-Obama will be meeting an unsatisfactory fate in June in California. And we all remember what happened in California, in June. Just a reminder, June is almost here.
Remember "The People" want it to be this way. Resistance is futile. Arbeit Macht Frei. Don't Worry. Be Happy.
May 30, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
No need to worry about June, Jade because "As a black man, Barack, could get shot at a gas station."
May 30, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I heard Hillary say on more than one occasion,
"this is a race for delegates". I also heard her state that Florida & Michigan would NOT count.
Barack Obama will & should declare victory next week. Peace.
May 30, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will use a football analogy. At the start of the contest, everyone knows that the team with the most points, not offensive yardage, wins the games. Likewise, everyone knew going in that the candidate with the most delegates, not the most popular votes, wins. It is always interesting when a football team gains more yards but loses the game. Usually, that happens due to (a) the ability to move the ball but not score points, and/or (b) you moved the ball but kept turning it over, thus not scoring points when you could have and giving the otherside points that they otherwise would not have had. In this case, Hillary barely eeks out on votes* (yards), but trails significantly on the delegates (points). As they say in football, "Scoreboard".
*I put an asterix on Hillary winning in vote totals because it simply is not true. You will recall that several states had both primaries and caucuses. But, for one example, Washington's primary votes, which Obam won 56/44, are not included in any of the vote totals. Its akin to saying "yardage", but being inconsistent on whether/how you count yardage on kick or punt returns. but that simply reinforces the obvious: points, not yardage, wins the game, which is why it doesn't really matter, in the long run, whether you add in kick return yardage or not.
May 30, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
If only 25% of the Michigan uncommitted vote was awarded to Obama...
...we'd be giving him votes that he didn't get. This truly is an historic candidate!!
Obama removed his name from the ballot for craven political reasons. He threatened to sue if MI put his name back on the ballot. He deserves zero from MI because that's the choice he made. Surely he can woo and win the 45% uncommitteds.
May 30, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
troll.
under the bridge is bizarro world. down there, following the rules gets you punished and called "craven." but disregarding the rules gets you elected.
May 30, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was no rule requiring the removal of his name from the ballot. He did it because;
1) he wanted to suck up to IA and NH, assuring them of their divine right to go first to weed the candidate field for the rest of the country;
2) he wanted to avoid the "Clinton 55%, Obama/Edwards 20%" headline.
Worse still was his posturing as a "man of principle" for having taken his name off.
He deserves squat from MI.
May 30, 2008 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't speak for Michigan. If anything, I do. I grew up there. I GREW UP THERE. It's my friends and family who are suffering as a result of Hillary's people disenfranchising my state. Go back to Pantsuit Land, troll.
Thank MacAuliffe, Ickes, and the rest of the ppl on Hillary's campaign staff who made the rules that disenfranchised Michigan in the first place; and blame Hillary for agreeing to those rules and wanting to change them now.
May 30, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You Hill fans have a problem. The status quo suits Obama just fine, i.e., no one gets any delegates out of Florida or Michigans since . . . well, those were the rules! It is Hillary who wants and NEEDS a change in the rules just to be within shouting distance of a plausible argument for someone considering her worthy of the nomination, given her second place showing in the actually campaign.
In order for Obama to agree to any post hoc rule change, there will have to be something in it for him. In other words, Hill fans, don't get greedy! If you demand the entire loaf, you wil end up with nothing.
May 30, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is something in it for him...a chance to win FL & MI in Nov. Just think of MI...he took his name off of the ballot to pander to IA & NH and their right to vote ahead of MI. Insult. Then he scuttles any chance of a later primary/caucus. Insult noted again. And then he fights to keep them from having any representation unless they give him delegates for taking his fucking name off of their ballot.
And he expects them to support him in November? Dream on.
May 30, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will they support Hillary either, when everyone knows it was largely her people who were responsible for the disenfranchisement of Michigan and Florida in the first place?
Why are you acting like this is all Obama's fault? You appear unreasonable and asinine when you don't acknowledge that there is plenty of blame to go around in this situation. Obama might be a bad guy, but there are plenty of other bad guys. Hillary might be a victim, but there are plenty of other victims.
Until you address the fact that your side caused this mess, you can't totally blame Obama for reacting to it with a well-thought strategy.
May 30, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
too bad that ain't the rules we agreed on back in December
you remember the rules, don't you
the set of metrics which YOU LOST ???
now you wanna go all george bush on us ???
nice try
keep it up and you ain't getting the lovely parting gifts ...
May 30, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
what part of the rule of law do you disagree with?
the will of the people, my ass.
May 30, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good lord you are a nut job.... a fucking dumbass.
What part of "a race for delegates" don't you understand?
You can change the method in 2012. But you can't change midstream.
Barack Obama has won the delegate race and is the presumptive Presidential nominee for the Democratic Party
"ohhhh boohoooo booohooooo. I can't change the rules"
May 31, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
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