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Rebuilding the Positivity
In response to thisniss' excellent post.
Many here have seemed worried recently. Anxious, even. It seems Obama is getting hit from all sides and not fighting back effectively. Tempers flare, even neutral exchanges are sharper. The "pro-Obama" posts have an undertone of almost pleading. People are defensive, jumping on minor points or feeling that every laughable crackpot theory is a valid imminent threat that must be taken pains to somehow rectify, in the process giving validation.
This turns people off. It turns you off, it turns us off and it turns everyone else off.
And I submit it is deliberate.
Obama is about positive energy. About "getting it done" instead of "fighting." About a positive, empathic, assertive and inclusive approach to solving problems. He is stirring the "better angels" from a long slumber and providing a rallying point, and being that proverbial first one to speak. The positive energy, "hope" if you will, is also what is attracting many of the family members, friends and co-workers of the early supporters. Naturally everyone in the race has fervent fans, but there has been something in this particular enthusiasm that has stopped many cynics in their tracks to take another, serious look. Something many have not done in years if decades.
Opposing candidates, whose names I will not mention, have nowhere to go but down. They play yesterday's game; one year one side is up by three points, the next year the other squeaks a victory by two. The trenches go deeper and deeper, and 50 + 1 becomes 49 + 1 if you break one of theirs.
Obama is getting people to snap out of it, getting people to go past their conditioning, the brainwashing and really take a look around themselves. Then they--we--go to others and point out this guy who seems to get it. And we think we might just have it too.
For the dynamic duo, the only way to victory is to kill the enthusiasm. Snuff out the positivity. Gossip, lies and bullshit divert our time away from the positive, from talking to people. They anger us so that when we do talk, it is not about how we all can take the right way, it is about how the others, the enemies are taking the wrong way. And those we speak to just hear the same thing they have been hearing all these years, shrug and continue living in their castles wrought of despondency.
So it is our turn, again, to snap out of it and really take a look around. That guy gets it. Maybe I do too.
Anyway, see if you can find that place again.
For a few days, write every single comment or blog post twice. Write it once to say what you want to say, then write it again to say what you need to say. Do not read hastily, do not write hastily.
Turning the other cheek does not work. It never did. You will need to rebut some posts but there are two ways to go about it: there is the positive, empathic, assertive and inclusive way and there is the wrong way. If you notice that your rebuttal does not address the exact points of the accusation by simple facts, it is not worth the electricity. Scrap it. If you are not able to, and not one of us is an expert in every area, do not post just to say something, anything to create balance of bad. Let it be and someone will come along to do the right thing. Forcefully and truthfully.
Do not join in or stay silent on an untruth aimed at the others just because it happens to benefit us at this time. It is not OK. It is never OK.
If you or someone else in the kool-aid team, someone in the campaign or even the big guy himself makes a mistake, say it out loud. The politicians of yesterday lie because they know their 25 will support them no matter what. When I stop accepting it when my guy or gal does something wrong is when they will stop doing it.
Do not generalize. All X do not do Y. With notable exceptions (whom you should just ignore), everybody here is basically a decent human being. Hell, maybe they will not even appreciate your gesture but never let that stop you. Give credit where it is due.
And make sure everyone else does too. You are your brother's keeper and you are your sister's keeper.
Comments (32)
Thanks for this.
May 1, 2008 4:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rec'd. Right on. By the way, TPM remains one of the more sane - daresay - decent places to hang out during this silly season.
Although, dammit to hell, if I'm not now stuck with a certain Spice Girls tune in my head ...
Slam it to the left
If you're having a good time ...
May 1, 2008 4:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great post! Highly recommended.
Even after making a conscious effort to change my tone and tenor, I still find myself alternating between fine-tuned rebuttals and snappy one-liners. It has required a lot of time and effort to move away from the latter in favor of the former. The first step was shedding my anonymity and donning my own tattered cloak of self.
The second, perhaps, will be your advice to read every comment twice before posting. My initial response is always "Fight!" Kind of reminds me of John Travolta playing the archangel Michael shouting, "Battle!" and going head-to-head with a charging bull.
It is easy to start whacking away with every rhetorical tool at my command. It is simple to go for that one over-the-top analogy that makes me laugh out loud even as it seeks to skewer whatever ironic absurdity has come from a Troll's keyboard. While the ultimate aim may be correcting misinformation or offering a different take on a subject, it becomes a game of oneupmanship rather than political fellowship.
It becomes a game of more words and less understanding.
It becomes a self-defeating strategy at best and actually counter-productive in a lot of ways.
I am inspired to continue to do better, but I can't guarantee I won't reach for the zings in my quiver for the most obnoxious of the obnoxious. I can't help myself. It's what I have trained for my entire adult life.
It's like telling this filmmaker to take up finger painting.
May 1, 2008 8:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jason, for what its worth, your posts here are very useful, and fun to read, too.
May 1, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks! I am still chewing on my next blog entry. Wright's been done to death. Hillary just makes me sad. I am thinking some sort of reminder of why I support Barack Obama, in spite of the fact that I am neither black nor in my 20s.
May 1, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
if you get any more self congratulatory your arm will break off from patting yourself on the back.
this whole thread is hilarious, its short version translation is this: the obama campaign is floundering like a flounder on the beach, its not going anywhere, the momentum is with clinton, and a win in north carolina and indiana this next week just might give dynamics to all the hand wringing and pithy one liners, cause, then your guy will quit, he will have to, how can anyone doom their party to defeat when he is in the crapper, his numbers are dropping, the shiny exterior needs buffing and, well, he is tired, and hillary is just cranking up
keep involved, your zingers are legendary
May 1, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering the situation right before the Pennsylvania primary, before Clinton's victory there, and now: Clinton has lost almost exactly four percentage points from her mathematical probability to win based on the remaining delegate counts. Just this week the ratio has dropped almost a full point (although naturally the swings will be wider the smaller the pool.)
It has been a rough couple weeks, absolutely, but my guy has still widened his headway during that period. So I feel pretty good.
And the last weeks have not been rough due to external factors only, as we often like to think. I think a huge part of it has been that we lost our focus, got mired.
But I am doing good. How about you?
May 1, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now, why don't you also add the obvious: Obama supporters have been the first and often most vicious in their derogatory and offensive insults, accusations, and language. The list is long if someone wanted to catalog them from nearly every single comment thread on TPM and other sites. In comparison, if you look at TPM for example, few Clinton and even McCain supporters, except the occasional random troll, stoop to the same boorish commentary.
It is a very simple solution. Obama supporters need to seriously clean up their language. When all you have is a foul mouth/writing, you can have no positive discussion or commentary. All you do is confirm the worst that many are increasingly concluding about Obama and his supporters. So, first step to recovery is to stop calling every critic of Obama a racist. Second, reread your post and if it is not something you'd say to your mom, grandma, or your small child or sibling, then clean it up.
Matthew
May 1, 2008 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yea, my beloved brother Matthew, we share a common goal, and are gathered together here in the spirit of common progressive discussion.
Woe be unto him (or her!) among us who first uses a foul or unwholesome phrase! (Unless they have a cool avatar with a clip from the Exorcist, in which case we will take it as a joke.) But woe also be unto him among us who engages in that sour and tasteless sport known colloquially as "concern trolling." For hath it not been written, "the concern troll is like unto the weevil in the grain, in that he eateth only to taint and to destroy"?
Yea, verily, and amen.
May 1, 2008 8:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you!
How else to reply to someone who accuses us all of being illiterate thugs out to cheapen the conversation with vitriol and hate speech?
From the very first moment, someone comes along who makes the experiment that much harder to conclude, because all you want to do is provide a laundry list of quotes from Hillary's fans about Obama and his supporters.
Also, how can you reply to a comment that starts off with self-delusion then quickly proceeds to paranoia and projection?
Even if someone goes out of their way to not use "dirty words" this crowd seems to see an implied "fuck" behind every post, a unspoken epithet behind every critique of their candidate. They equate "liar" with being hateful when it is quite clear that Hillary can't stop fibbing. We say she is hurting the party by employing dirty tactics and somehow that is hate as well.
When someone is only looking to think the worst about a group of people, how can anything that anyone says help but confirm that opinion?
I have a very simple solution: don't form an opinion before hearing all the facts. Also, once an opinion is formed, it is perfectly acceptable to change said opinion after receiving new information or a fresh perspective.
Finally, all Barack supporters don't hate Hillary, even if I do.
We are not a monolithic crowd. Some merely view her with some vague distaste or disdain. Some think she is an evil warmonger and corporate flunky who will finish destroying our country if we are stupid enough to let her anywhere near the White House again.
I find Weaver to be a tad hypocritical in his comment, since it obvious that he goes out of his way to provoke emotional responses by posting the most outrageous lies, misrepresentations or misunderstandings. It is in language that wouldn't make a schoolgirl blush, of course, so apparently that gives him the moral high ground. However, The implications and innuendo are as obvious from Clinton supporters as they are from the candidate herself.
Americans aren't stupid and that shit won't work anymore. That is why Barack is winning and Clinton's run has thus far fallen short of convincing voters that she deserves the nod.
Damn voters!
May 1, 2008 8:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I totally agree. It boils down to two things, really, in my mind.
Don't feed the trolls (or let them be energy vampires).
Remember what brought us to this place in the beginning. Changing the way politics is done is as much about us as it is about the candidates. The old ones are yanking the same chains as they always do, mainly because we keep falling for us.
Note the polls today showing Hillary is closing the gap here and there, and is even ahead in a couple in NC. That's the result of the negative blizzard involving Wright, and the wall-to-wall panderfest that's going on. People are fooled. This stuff is used BECAUSE IT WORKS.
It's up to us to change it. We really are the people we've been waiting on. If only we will do what's necessary.
But we can. We must.
May 1, 2008 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Edit: "We keep falling for it", not "us".
Site managers: Can we have that feature for editing our posts, please?
May 1, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
You make a baseless and false accusation: "he goes out of his way to provoke emotional responses by posting the most outrageous lies, misrepresentations or misunderstandings"
But if it comforts you, go forth and spew your lies. Very fitting in this thread that you can't even stick to honest comments. Nice contribution.
Matthew
May 1, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't you have some little ones to go spend time with?
May 1, 2008 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew,
I hope I don't sound too goofy saying this, but maybe I need to think about those babies in your picture before I post.
Aren't those babies -- all of our babies (including the ones suffering in Iraq now) the point?
Peace,
Laura
May 1, 2008 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew: Thank you, for reinforcing roo's point. Go in peace, our angry brother.
May 1, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry that you consider any criticism against your candidate to be vulgar and uncalled for, but she IS a liar, she IS a conservative in a liberal's pantsuit and she IS a power-mad egomaniac who will attempt to dehumanize anyone who opposes her. If hearing the truth or ignoring racism (That does exist, mind you, whether or not it's widespread) makes you uncomfortable, go read redstate.com
May 1, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew, sometimes there's just more fun than hate behind the quips.
May 1, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dont really believe that "Obama supporters" bit. But I havent been around that long.
I'll tell you from my observation around other news sites, TPM has been the most "relaxed" group, on both sides, for Hillary and Obama. And I scan roughly 6 - 10 websites and comment sections daily. TPM being one of maybe 3 that I will post. Way too negative in most other places.
And also, I don't know about calling everyone who disagrees with something Obama has done/said a racist. That would be nonsensical(sp?) to assume.
At least for me.
May 1, 2008 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Weaver,
my b-r-o-t-h-e-r...F Yee.
May 1, 2008 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope that this post is recommended. I tend to, as Josh put it the other day, "hit the panic button" too fast. However, real change (dare I say it) is about faith. I do not mean religious faith, I mean faith in one's position, and a bit of realistic faith in humanity, too.
Rabbi Lerner, a progressive Democrat, offers an interesting critique of Democrats in general. He says that they are seen as lacking backbone and lacking values because they fly from their positions for the least political expediency. While the Republican party tends to stick to its views (Goodness help us) no matter what the polls say, Democrats waver with the polls. He offers this: we must be willing to lose elections occasionally, lose them but retain our core values.
To get my finger off the panic button, I need to remember this. Of course, Obama should (and will) prevail in this caustic, Rovian atmosphere. However, ultimately it is much more important that the ideas he stands for prevail.
Now, this does not mean policy. The man supported Torte Reform. I don't view him as any kind of progressive messiah. However, there is no mistaking that he offers a different way approaching the political – a different form of rhetoric. Roo__P’s post beautifully echoes what Obama represents in this regard.
•Grassroots organizing (compare Axelrod’s creds to those of Penn)
•An emphasis on the base determining policy, and acting to do so (Andrew Sullivan offers a nice bit on this today: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/obama-and-the-g.html )
•Thoughtfulness
•Playing the long game, not the expedient one
•Being proactive, not reactive (or reactionary)
•Communicating to others with respect.
I realize that some Clinton supporters will want to jump in and somehow say that Obama does not represent the above. I am sure they can come up with great anecdotal evidence. However, if we were to look at this empirically, I don’t think there is any way to state that Clinton generally comes from this kind of rhetorical framework, or that, overall, Obama does not. It just wouldn’t pan out. (If anyone wishes to test my hypothesis, please do so. That would mean looking not at the anecdotal, but doing thorough, statistical analysis of the rhetoric of both campaigns.)
However, my hope is that Clinton supporter don’t jump in with a need to criticize. My hope is that they have enough faith in their candidate to actually acknowledge that Obama may have something to offer, and that they try to understand, and dare I say, emulate it. (I’ve read enough vituperative posts from Clinton supporters to know that they are frightened too, and their anger is just an expression of their fear – their lack of faith in their own candidate.)
So I plan to read Roo’s post a few times today. (If it doesn’t get recommended, I hope someone reposts is. If not, if Roo doesn’t, I will.) I am one of those fearful one’s who forget that the game we are playing is not the one of the current US political discourse. We are not playing the game of, “Be fearful and attack.” That’s the Republican game, the one they want us to play, as if we were bears they had brought to their mansions for the light amusement of bearbaiting.
We wish to play the game of, “How can I elevate the dialog today?” “How can I be more thoughtful?” “How can I offer hope to others, not attack?”
My wish: Clinton supports, play this game too. It might be rather fun. And we may find that we get back to discussing what matters (human rights, the war, the economy, incredible corruption, unchecked executive powers, the pillaging of the environment, healthcare – the list of what ails us goes on and on).
As it is when we get snarky (and I can snark as well as the best of them), Karl Rove laughs.
Think of what Rove and those he supports have done in the past few years. They delight in carnage. Our psychic carnage makes a great appetizer before the endangered-whale palate cleanser, and the main course of destruction in the Middle East. I think they eat malnourished babies for desert. And that is no joke.
Peace,
Laura
May 1, 2008 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent sentiment, roo_P, and eloquently put. I recommend and commend.
PS I read over this comment three times before sending.
May 1, 2008 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. How true.
I often use forums like this to vent my frustrations out into the anonymous blogosphere...forgetting that there are real people on the other end.
Somehow, Obama manages to keep his cool and his kindness through all this, you'd think I could, too.
Changing the tone of political dialog (and politics itself) can't happen overnight, but I think it will happen, and posts like yours help.
Thank you.
May 1, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
ARGH!
STRIKE AT THE HEART OF THE WEAK! TAKE NO PRISONERS! RULE THE HOLY SEE! RAISE THE FLAG AND HOLD ONTO THE POLE!
ACQURE! MERGE! RAID! PLUNDER! DILUTE! DILUTE!
ARGH!
May 1, 2008 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol.
Sorry this dude just makes my day.
May 1, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
the boards on this site are very civil compared to many boards.
The dynamic online is one side vs. another - I don't care if it's books or music or what. I've seen a fight over the Beach Boys go for 3 days on a political comments board.
It's not going to change. It has stayed like this for at least 5 years.
What is changing is the blogs themselves - they are going more mainstream. I expect free boards and open comments to disappear sooner rather than later.
May 1, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Internet has been the same since the late 80's when I started with BBSs.
But think about what you just said. We cannot change something because that is the way it has been for 5 years and the best way is to just go with it?
What the hell are you doing in the Obama camp?
May 1, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let us take the empathy aspect.
The way you feel about the Internet is the way a lot of people feel about politics. They "know" that nothing will ever change. They "know" the guy talking about change is either a troll or just another innocent victim soon to be crushed by the hard reality of the Internet.
They "know" all this just as firmly as you do.
Can you feel it? Can you, for a moment, be that person? Be for Clinton because she plays the game you "know" will never change?
What would it take for you to seriously consider that maybe change is possible after all?
Take that and apply it.
May 1, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps the mainstream is being influenced by the blogs?
Seriously, Tena, not sure what you mean "going mainstream". Just a few days ago was a blog with people talking about energy use around the globe.
The only thing mainstream here is the humor.
Except idiotic. He's one of a kind.
May 1, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
See new diary by Allsburg... It carries out this theme/
May 1, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Using positive energy or physic powers, there is no point in trying to change the message of the MSM. They have too much information and way too many means of getting their bias out there. Our only voice is no longer being heard by the Democratic Party. They are now on Fox News, next Obama and Hillary will be on Rush LimBarf's radio show. We are being ignored and left behind. First, they wanted us to vote for Edward's, then Hillary, then Richard's, now Obama. Now they are destroying Obama. Next they will destroy Hillary or we will do it ourselves. There is no point of even voting in Florida or Michigan since we have destroyed are party in those states. Now, if Hillary is nominated the Black vote will leave the Democrat party. If Obama is nominated the Racist Whites will leave the party. This whole mess has just soured our fight and we can no longer win. I hate the hate so much I am leaving the party.
May 1, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah.
May 1, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
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